It's finally my turn! Engagement ring help.

[Exbro]

After waiting forever for the right person, I'm finally getting engaged!

Within the next week I'll finally have about $10k to spend and I could possibly squeeze $13k if I had to. The plan is to spend money on the stone and keep the setting to something super cheap and simple. She can upgrade to a custom setting later if she wants.

I've been on this site for awhile as you can see but I admit I've always been overwhelmed by the knowledge of others here. Therefore, it would mean alot to me if I could call upon the experts here to help me pick the right stone.

I'm looking for a round stone. The best value for the buck. Cut is important but I don't even know all the cuts. So super ideal? 1.2carat? Color H? VS2? I'd love to get to 1.5carat but that's probably out of my price range.

White Flash seems to come up often here for the trade up policy but she's a super sentimental girl so I doubt she'll trade it for the world but it's still in the back of my mind.

So, with that in mind, please help me find a something amazing in my price range that is somewhere over a carat. I don't know how this all works as I'm not ready to buy for another 7 days but I thought I should get started. Did I start too soon?

Thanks in advance.

 

[BlingDreams]

Congratulations on your upcoming engagement! It sounds like this is something you've been looking forward to for a long time, so it's great that you're really putting in the effort to get a beautiful diamond from the get-go.

To stay within your budget, here's a 1.366 G/SI1 that may work from Whiteflash. The only thing I see is that you'll want to verify that it's eye-clean: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2962077.htm

To your stretch budget, here's a 1.408 G/VS2 that would be a great choice imo: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4008481.htm. It's definitely eye-clean, and a G is pretty much guaranteed not to show tint to most people (do you know if she's color sensitive?). There's a larger one for slightly less, but it's an H and I'd hate for tint to show if it might bother her.

Neither of those are ACA's, but they both have great cuts and optics and you certainly would have a heck of a diamond to present her with!!

There's also a 1.446 G/SI1 that's stated to be eye-clean, but you'd want to verify that of course. This one IS an ACA and fits your stretch budget: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3983288.htm

Others will probably chime in too, so these are just to get you started

ETA: If it was me, I'd get the 1.446 ACA as long as it is truly eye-clean. Inclusions don't bother me as long as I can't see them! And, you'd be at that "sweet spot" of just below a price-bump marker (1ct, 1.5ct, 2ct, etc.) so you'd have a diamond that pretty much looked like a 1.5 carat without the price hike.

 

[BlingDreams]

A few more, if trade-up isn't a big criteria for you. IDJ usually offers the best bang for the buck and have made many people on here (myself included) very happy with what they've gotten for their money.

Here's a 1.50ct G/SI1 ideal cut diamond that ticks all the boxes for the recommended parameters and it's quite a bit less than the ACA: https://idjewelry.com/round-ed32684.html. It's also slightly larger diameter too.

And then there's another top-of-the-line in precision cut... the CBI (crafted by infinity) diamond by HP Diamonds. Here are two eye-clean options:
1.21 G/SI1 within your original budget: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10321
or a 1.38 G/SI1 in your stretch budge: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10128

 

[ringo865]

Congratulations that you found the one. People here will point you in the right direction regarding a stone.

I like your 68 Chevelle SS.

 

[Exbro]

Congratulations on your upcoming engagement!

ETA: If it was me, I'd get the 1.446 ACA as long as it is truly eye-clean. Inclusions don't bother me as long as I can't see them! And, you'd be at that "sweet spot" of just below a price-bump marker (1ct, 1.5ct, 2ct, etc.) so you'd have a diamond that pretty much looked like a 1.5 carat without the price hike.

Thank you for the great suggestions. I have done a little more research and it looks like ACA is something I'd really appreciate. How do I know if it's truly eye-clean? Also, I noticed you chose a few G color stones? Can the naked eye tell between H and G?

 

[Exbro]

Congratulations that you found the one. People here will point you in the right direction regarding a stone.

I like your 68 Chevelle SS.

Thank you and good eye. That is indeed a 68 Chevelle. A true 138 SS car that I bought for $1500 and restored.

 

[sledge]

Thank you for the great suggestions. I have done a little more research and it looks like ACA is something I'd really appreciate. How do I know if it's truly eye-clean? Also, I noticed you chose a few G color stones? Can the naked eye tell between H and G?

I will try to also do a search but pinched on time.

In regards to color, D-G is considered colorless. Some very color sensitive people can start to see tint at H, more people at I and most people at J. Also as you hit I+ colors then grading is more subjective and you will see what some refer to as a high I meaning almost H or a low I meaning almost J.

Keep in mind tint/color is most easily identified from the side. It's very hard for many professionals to discern the upper color ranges from the top without a reference source for comparison.

Most people consider white diamonds more precious so hefty premiums are associated with D & E stones. Price begins to drop a little in the F & G range and continues to descend as the color ascends.

I've learned many cultures, especially Asian prefer high color and high clarity because that means purity to them. If you don't have such cultural restrictions you can really up size and maximize budget by going to a G/H color which IMO is a great bang for the buck.

But ultimately you want to choose a color that YOU and YOUR GIRL consider to be white and meet or exceed your expectations.

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-di...laboratory-color-grading-of-diamonds-1249.htm

 

[sledge]

Clarity is also a subjective topic on these boards. This a great read about the depths of it:

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-di...diamond-clarity-grading-the-agsl-way-1323.htm

Generally speaking, you pay hefty premiums for higher grades of clarity. And since diamonds are a zero sum game, many believe this is a spot you can go down in to help maximize and meet budget goals.

The real determinant is the size of the stone, the sensitivity of your vision, what we refer to as mind clean and finally any cultural bias.

As a stone increases in size inclusions can be easier to see. For instance what works for 0.5ct may not work at 2cts as you have more surface area to focus on and see imperfections.

While there is no industry standard definition, a very common "eye clean" definition is no inclusions visible from 10" away looking at the top only by a person with 20/20 vision. You may see inclusions from the side but generally this isn't a massive issue as most settings cover the sides.

Those with more sensitive eyes may prefer a definition of 6" from the top and sides with 20/20 eyes.

Assuming the stones are vetted, a great bang for the buck is an eye clean SI1. Some SI2's will work but need very careful vetting to be considered, especially in larger sizes (unless your vision is less sensitive or you simply don't care about seeing inclusions).

I personally like really clean SI1's and VS2's but some will say you are wasting money on a VS2.

This brings me to the 3rd point, mind clean. I pray you don't suffer from it but I do on a smaller scale than some. It means even though you can't see the inclusions you like the idea the stone is clean per the cert. As a result I ended up buying a very clean VS2 for my girl although I was open to less clarity.

Lastly is cultural reasons. I'm not picking.on Asians but most prefer VS1+. IMO you start to pay a hefty premium for such clarity and I try to encourage very clean SI1's or clean VS2's as they also tend to like D/E and large stones while still being budget conscious.

Ultimately, the right decision here comes down to what YOU and YOUR GIRL find most acceptable to your comfort and cultural requirements.

 

[BlingDreams]

Thank you for the great suggestions. I have done a little more research and it looks like ACA is something I'd really appreciate. How do I know if it's truly eye-clean? Also, I noticed you chose a few G color stones? Can the naked eye tell between H and G?

You can call Whiteflash and ask them to have their in-house gemologist examine it for you to determine if it’s eye-clean from 10”.

For color, yes, the naked eye can tell G from H. It depends on how color sensitive the person is. I’m very color sensitive and can pick up tint at H. However, that being said, a round brilliant cut diamond... and especially one with a precision cut such as an ACA/CBI... will hide color better than other cuts/shapes.

Keep in mind too that tint is mostly seen when you view the diamond at an angle, which is how she’ll most often see her diamond. Some people love the warmth that H and lower diamonds show and others don’t. But here’s the great thing about going with Whiteflash or HPD - if she decides either immediately or down the road that warmth bothers her, you can exchange it with complete credit of your original diamond.

It sounds like you want the engagement to be a surprise. That means you’ll need to decide if you’d rather have a hint of warmth and a slightly larger diamond or a tint-free diamond that’s slightly smaller. There is no wrong choice! Your ACA or CBI diamond will be incredible no matter which route you chose

 

[Exbro]

Clarity is also a subjective topic on these boards. This a great read about the depths of it:

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-di...diamond-clarity-grading-the-agsl-way-1323.htm
..........Ultimately, the right decision here comes down to what YOU and YOUR GIRL find most acceptable to your comfort and cultural requirements.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write that up for me. It's very interesting to see how you approach value. I agree with everything you said. To me, I like the G or H range. and the VS2/SI1 range. The ACA diamonds are for her to say to she got the best. And there are no cultural reasons to stray from those parameters.

 

[Exbro]

You can call Whiteflash and ask them to have their in-house gemologist examine it for you to determine if it’s eye-clean from 10”.

For color, yes, the naked eye can tell G from H. It depends on how color sensitive the person is. I’m very color sensitive and can pick up tint at H. However, that being said, a round brilliant cut diamond... and especially one with a precision cut such as an ACA/CBI... will hide color better than other cuts/shapes.

Keep in mind too that tint is mostly seen when you view the diamond at an angle, which is how she’ll most often see her diamond. Some people love the warmth that H and lower diamonds show and others don’t. But here’s the great thing about going with Whiteflash or HPD - if she decides either immediately or down the road that warmth bothers her, you can exchange it with complete credit of your original diamond.

It sounds like you want the engagement to be a surprise. That means you’ll need to decide if you’d rather have a hint of warmth and a slightly larger diamond or a tint-free diamond that’s slightly smaller. There is no wrong choice! Your ACA or CBI diamond will be incredible no matter which route you chose

I think I'd rather have the smaller diamond that has less tint. Shes all about quality. A year back she wanted me to go to our local store and going anywhere else will suspect to her. So I better pick something that's better than the local store can provide. I surely want a diamond that you don't see flaws at 10 inches.

 

[Exbro]

A few more, if trade-up isn't a big criteria for you. IDJ usually offers the best bang for the buck and have made many people on here (myself included) very happy with what they've gotten for their money.

Here's a 1.50ct G/SI1 ideal cut diamond that ticks all the boxes for the recommended parameters and it's quite a bit less than the ACA: https://idjewelry.com/round-ed32684.html. It's also slightly larger diameter too.

And then there's another top-of-the-line in precision cut... the CBI (crafted by infinity) diamond by HP Diamonds. Here are two eye-clean options:
1.21 G/SI1 within your original budget: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10321
or a 1.38 G/SI1 in your stretch budge: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10128

I don't understand the quality in cut with these stones. For example, the 1.5ct ideal cut, is that the same quality as the WF ACA?

Same with the HPdiamonds, are they in the same quality range as ACA?

 

[DickyB89]

I'm no expert but I know that HPdiamonds are another super ideal vendor through their CBI (Crafted by Infinity) cut which most often gets compared to ACAs around here.

A lot of people seem to think CBIs are even better, but I went with an ACA due to better prices.

 

[ringo865]

IDJ stones recommended here might be cut within the angle ranges recommended on PS. But they won't be "a true 138 car." Still nice and sparkly and fine for many. IDJ can help find pricescope quality stones for people on a budget.

Crafted by Infinity and ACA and Brian Gavin signature stones and some others are cut with extra precision, each angle will be cut to work with and enhance each other angle. These stones will be "numbers matching" 138 cars.

As for color, I have an H stone in which I cannot see any tint from the top or sides. Also it's an si2 and completely eye clean to me. I also have a (possibly) K color stone. While I can see slight warmth in it, it's not like "woah look at that yellow rock." It's more like "Wimbleton white" than "ermine white". It doesn't bother me in the least (because it let me get a bigger stone for my budget.

Can your girl distinguish (not side by side) between ivy gold or ash gold or willow gold? Or are they all just "gold"? Haha my husband sells Chevelle parts and tells me how "sixty eights rule the streets" (though we have a 71) so sorry for all the the car metaphors

Going with either IDJ or one of the super ideal vendors (especially with PS input) will pretty much guarantee that you'll get a better cut, more sparkly, and cleaner stone than what your likely to find in any jewelry store near you.

You are in good hands here regarding your diamond selection.

 

[msop04]

Hi, @Exbro! I haven't had a chance to look for stones yet, but I just wanted to chime in and say DO NOT BE SCARED OF H COLOR. It will be WHITE. (esp. in a <2 ct stone) My diamond is a 3.33 ct I (see avatar), and it is white (the higher the carat weight, the more tinted the color will appear... so a 3 ct I will show more tint than a 1.5 ct I, for example.)

ETA: do you think she'll ever want to upgrade her diamond? If so, I'd choose a vendor with a good upgrade policy.

 

[msop04]

Here are two stones I like from JA. They will look exactly the same size IRL.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4596697 HCA 1.8, 7.21 x 7.17 mm, $11,780... love the small table and thick arrows, plus it's super white and clean

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5296938 HCA 1.0, 7.24 x 7.19 mm, $11,380... love the tiny table, and it's SUPER clean

 

[HappyNewLife]

Hi, @Exbro! I haven't had a chance to look for stones yet, but I just wanted to chime in and say DO NOT BE SCARED OF H COLOR. It will be WHITE. (esp. in a <2 ct stone) My diamond is a 3.33 ct I (see avatar), and it is white (the higher the carat weight, the more tinted the color will appear... so a 3 ct I will show more tint than a 1.5 ct I, for example.)

ETA: do you think she'll ever want to upgrade her diamond? If so, I'd choose a vendor with a good upgrade policy.

Agreed with all this. I have an I/VS2 ACA and it is WHITE. It's never looked even slightly tinted (unless I stupidly took photos with a gold phone case, lol). An H will be a really great sweet spot for budget in order to increase size.

 

[diamondsareagirls]

I have a 1.60 J ACA that is just so white and amazing. If size matters I would not be afraid of the WF lower colors at all!

 

[BlingDreams]

I think I'd rather have the smaller diamond that has less tint. Shes all about quality. A year back she wanted me to go to our local store and going anywhere else will suspect to her. So I better pick something that's better than the local store can provide. I surely want a diamond that you don't see flaws at 10 inches.

As you can see @Exbro , there are lots of viewpoints on color and when it can be seen . Some of it has to do with the cut of the stone, and some with the sensitivity of the person. But anything in the H/I and sometimes J range is really more of a warm white vs noticeable yellow... kind of like the difference in bright white vs warm white lightbulbs, if you will.

It’s also already been explained about the cuts. With CBI, ACA, and BG’s branded stones you’re guaranteed a precision-cut stone and you pay a bit of a premium for the name distinction (and guarantee of perfection). With the others (IDJ, JA, etc.), even if they have the same angles, there’s no attached name or premium. If you search the threads on this forum you’ll find MANY debates about which is better, if they’re equal, and if it’s worth the premium. As with the choice of color, it’s a personal decision (and in this case a “mind clean” decision, knowing that you got the best even if you paid extra for the name). In some ways you could say it might be like buying the exact same Nike shirt but without the Nike swoosh; to some, the shirt will never be as good or as impressive without the logo.

 

[msop04]

I think I'd rather have the smaller diamond that has less tint. Shes all about quality. A year back she wanted me to go to our local store and going anywhere else will suspect to her. So I better pick something that's better than the local store can provide. I surely want a diamond that you don't see flaws at 10 inches.

It's worth noting to make sure your girl saw GIA graded stones when looking in your local jewelry shop. If she saw yellow in an H, then you can about guarantee it wasn't a GIA H. They are white to most eyes. I would have her look at only GIA graded stones to establish her tolerance for color. EGL and other labs (not as strict and consistent with their grading) may grade a diamond as an F, for example... that color can be off by as many as FOUR shades! Ex: "Other Lab": F/VS2... GIA I/SI1 (for the same stone)

If it turns out that she sees a GIA H (or I) and sees more tint than most, then I'd go G color... HOWEVER, I'd be hesitant to waste my budget on a higher color she won't be able to appreciate when you could find a larger stone in a lower color (H/I/even J).

As was mentioned previously by @ILikeShiny and others, CUT makes a huge difference in how the stone is perceived. A very well cut H may appear whiter (and definitely brighter/more sparkly) than a not-so-well-cut E. That's not to say that you must have a branded superideal stone, but you do need to consider the cut.

Also, lower colors do not equate to "lower quality"... it's all about what personal tolerances and preference. Some people can see a difference in E and H, but they prefer the look of the H... everyone is different. Higher colors (D/E/F) are not higher quality, but are more rare than lower colors.

 

[sledge]

To stay within your budget, here's a 1.366 G/SI1 that may work from Whiteflash. The only thing I see is that you'll want to verify that it's eye-clean: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2962077.htm

I like the size & price of this stone, but I dislike the fact it says "inquire" about being eye clean. That typically means it's not eye clean. Also, I'm not in love with the performance images. Although in fairness this is an "Expert Selection" stone, so price has been adjusted to reflect the (overall minor) imperfections.

FYI....

A Cut Above (ACA) = WF's best

Premium Select = WF's second best (most the time AGS certified and has very, very minor imperfections to not make the ACA mark)

Expert Select = WF's third best. Can be GIA XXX or AGS certified

All qualify for their wonderful trade-in program (spend $1+ more than original price and get full credit of your original stone towards your new purchase).

To your stretch budget, here's a 1.408 G/VS2 that would be a great choice imo: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4008481.htm. It's definitely eye-clean, and a G is pretty much guaranteed not to show tint to most people (do you know if she's color sensitive?). There's a larger one for slightly less, but it's an H and I'd hate for tint to show if it might bother her.

Neither of those are ACA's, but they both have great cuts and optics and you certainly would have a heck of a diamond to present her with!!

I also like this stone. It's a very clean VS2. It sizes up well also, 7.16 x 7.21mm. While there are some other very minor imperfections while it missed the ACA mark, it appears the one item I circled below is the main reason it missed the mark.



I believe I've seen this stone before actually. If it's the one I think it is, the stone originated as an ACA and was being considered by another potential buyer. Several PS'ers started reviewing and noticed the spot I pointed out above and started a technical discussion. The VP of WF popped into the discussion and said he would investigate. Shortly after, that stone was downgraded from ACA to Premium Select and the price adjusted accordingly.

Because of the attention to detail, and expedient response I considered this exceptional customer service and gained a lot of respect for both the VP and WF as a whole. Plus, the stone is still a phenomenal performer and even cheaper than when it was an ACA.

There's also a 1.446 G/SI1 that's stated to be eye-clean, but you'd want to verify that of course. This one IS an ACA and fits your stretch budget: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3983288.htm

Out of this particular WF grouping, I like this the best.

It's bigger than the 1.408ct in both weight and dimensions. You give up a little clarity but this particular SI1 is clean so that helps you on pricing and IMO doesn't give you an VISIBLE downgrade. Also, I prefer to buy under "magic weights" like 1.5cts, 2cts, etc so you can avoid non-sense premiums.

Here's a 1.50ct G/SI1 ideal cut diamond that ticks all the boxes for the recommended parameters and it's quite a bit less than the ACA: https://idjewelry.com/round-ed32684.html. It's also slightly larger diameter too.

I've not used IDJ but many here have raved about their quality and prices. At the end of the day, it's about $1,000 premium to go to the WF 1.446ct ACA with same specs. I think it's worth the premium myself as I don't see a clear dimension increase that is worthwhile and I don't need to say "1.5ct" to know a 1.446ct is the same. Also, I like the entire package you get with WF and the fact it's a super ideal diamond.

That said, below is a more in-depth explanation of my viewpoint.

Currently there are no actual images or videos on the IDJ site, although I understand they work with their clients to get that information. I do know it's a GIA XXX stone. While many GIA XXX stones are beautiful, you should understand the following:

Best = AGS 000 (super ideals like WF ACA, BGD, HPD, etc)
Better = AGS 0
Good = GIA XXX

Assuming you get a well cut XXX stone with proper angles and percentages, and then true light performance can be confirmed through ASET and Idealscope (IS) images, a GIA XXX stone can be a great choice.

The issue, is many XXX stones are not in that elite group and so we have to be careful and clearly understand the term "excellent" may not be even close to excellent in reality. What can become frustrating is that many XXX stones will initially show good angles & percentages on the reports that should be confirmed with ASET and IS images. Then many times you get those images and the stone isn't as great as you originally thought.

Without getting too geeky on you, this has to do with the fact GIA uses simplistic 2D modeling and a strange method to averaging and rounding up the angles and percentages they report on the GIA report. While numerically those differences seem minor, they can have a drastic effect on the final cut quality of the stone. As such, GIA is currently crippled and cannot objectively assign cut grades. When considering GIA stones, you can utilize the HCA tool to confirm if the angles are complimentary and may provide a good stone but the technology is fairly limited and is always superseded by ASET and IS performance images.

AGS uses advanced 3D modeling that more accurately defines the angles and measurements, and also creates a computer generated ASET. Consequently AGS certs include a cut quality grade that is reliable. Obviously, we are looking for an "ideal" cut so you get the most sparkle. Combine with ideal level symmetry (commonly called hearts & arrow, or H&A) and ideal symmetry and you end up with a super ideal fireball of sparkle.

I don't want to scare you. GIA XXX can provide a fantastic bang for the buck, and you can find some very beautiful and sparkly stones. There are just limitations and it takes a good deal more effort IMO to find them. Consequently I find it more risky and frustrating. And many times you find vendors who cannot provide ASET and IS images until you buy the stone and ship to their facility from their supplier. While this is a solution, it involves returns and headaches IMO. But it is doable, and many vendors and suppliers are better than others. It's just a circumstance of dealing with "virtual inventory" to be honest. Also, many times these vendors tend to offer less stellar trade-in policies, etc.

To be clear, I understand IDJ to provide exceptional performing stones for value minded customers and to go above & beyond many of the vendors dealing only in virtual inventory. In reality I think they are one of the better choices if you understand the differences and this is what you want.

And then there's another top-of-the-line in precision cut... the CBI (crafted by infinity) diamond by HP Diamonds. Here are two eye-clean options:
1.21 G/SI1 within your original budget: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10321
or a 1.38 G/SI1 in your stretch budge: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10128

I like Wink quite a bit. He is the owner of HPD and active on the forums here. His love and enthusiasm for diamonds and his clients are off the charts. I enjoy conversing with him and would like an opportunity to buy a CBI stone from him. FYI, CBI is a separate entity that distributes their super ideals through HPD.

I would love to get my hands on one as I've heard many rave about there being a true difference in their cut quality. In the pictures and videos I've seen, it appears there is more "contrast" which I tend to like. But I've also read others state that contrast wasn't visible to them. At this point I am very intrigued and want to see with my own eyes in-person.

The nice thing is the HPD/CBI stone will be a super ideal just like the ACA so it is a cream of the crop stone.

But for these two stones in particular I have the following comments:

On both stones I'd probably consider a wire price because of Wink. From what he's shown me on these boards, he's not driven by money and does the right thing regardless. Of course, I'd also trust WF and BGD with wire transfers as well. However, sometimes when dealing with an "unknown" source (good or bad) it's nice to have the additional protection of a credit card transaction until you can see and establish that trust for yourself.

For performance, I much prefer the HPD 1.21ct to the WF 1.366ct. While both meet your low end budget, the HPD 1.21ct appears to be truly eye clean (always confirm, but Wink will be happy to do this and will be objective in his review), the performance images are top notch and this is a true superideal stone.

The downside is you lose about 0.20mm of face up size (6.9mm vs 7.10mm). Most people with good vision can start to detect a size difference around this 0.20mm mark. However, it is very minimal, about 1/128th of an inch. When compared side by side, you should be able to discern a difference but IMO it's not a memorable size difference that would make you go, "wow, that 1.366 was so much bigger". Unless next to one another, it's unlikely you'd know there was a dimensional difference.

I do agree it SOUNDS BETTER to say 1.366ct vs 1.21ct. Also, keep in mind, diamond weight is kind of a weird way to evaluate diamond size. The length (L) & width (W) dimensions are calculated in the horizontal planes, but the depth (D) is in the vertical plane. You utilize the following formula to arrive at (approximate) carat weight of a round diamond:

L x W x D x 0.061 = carat weight

Take into account actual angles, percentages, etc. and many times a heavier carat weight stone isn't actually that much bigger. In fact when I was shopping I bought my girl a 0.867 H VS2 that had larger L&W dimensions than a 0.90ct G SI1 I was looking at. Granted, the difference was very minimal, but my point still remains.

Buy based on MEMORABLE size dimensions and don't get caught up in the "my d*ck is bigger than yours" game.

Moving on. I am not a fan of the 1.38ct G SI1. To me, the cert looks dirty. Too many inclusions on the table for my preference. But again, I'm sure Wink can confirm if it's eye clean. Remember earlier I said I suffer from that "mind clean" thing? Well this is a stone that would bite me in the arse, as that would not be something I'd like to see or think about. This doesn't mean my opinion is right for you, I'm just sharing what I don't like based on my own preferences/ideas.

For color, yes, the naked eye can tell G from H. It depends on how color sensitive the person is. I’m very color sensitive and can pick up tint at H. However, that being said, a round brilliant cut diamond... and especially one with a precision cut such as an ACA/CBI... will hide color better than other cuts/shapes.

Keep in mind too that tint is mostly seen when you view the diamond at an angle, which is how she’ll most often see her diamond. Some people love the warmth that H and lower diamonds show and others don’t. But here’s the great thing about going with Whiteflash or HPD - if she decides either immediately or down the road that warmth bothers her, you can exchange it with complete credit of your original diamond.

I mostly agree with this.

When I look at stones I've learned I am more color sensitive than my girl. To me, D/E looks nearly the same. I then see a very, very faint difference with an F. There is slightly more variation to me between a D/E and G. And finally even a little more between a D/E and H. Keep in mind, this is with diamonds next to each other LOOKING AT THE SIDES. From the top, it gets much tougher for me as diamonds don't typically show much tint/color from the top view. I will re-clarify overall, these are faint differences even at their "worst" difference. I don't think an H is "yellow" by any stretch as some will sometimes say. It has a very minor tint (from the side).

I mention this because when I was buying I wanted a G+ color for my girl, and I got an H. I was worried the H may not be white enough. But others assured me the super ideal stone would appear more white, and in my case I had medium fluorescence which also helps whiten the stone. I am very happy with my choice and wouldn't hesitate on an H that met or exceeded my other criteria.

Although I can be very sensitive with color, I find it is considerably harder for me to identify differences between only one color grade. So while I can see some difference between a D & G stone next to each other on their side, it is much harder for me to see the difference between a G & H or F & G. Then if you showed me a G and let me inspect and take it away for 30 minutes and put an H in front of me to inspect I am not certain the difference would be enough for me to notice or remember (assuming you ran a blind test so I didn't "mentally" see differences).

FYI, some pics of my girl's BGD 0.867 H VS2 for color reference...

 

[msop04]

Agreed with all this. I have an I/VS2 ACA and it is WHITE. It's never looked even slightly tinted (unless I stupidly took photos with a gold phone case, lol). An H will be a really great sweet spot for budget in order to increase size.

Totally! @HappyNewLife's diamond is BOMB AF!!! (yeeeeaaahhh... I just said AF)
...but seriously, it really is. I have a crush on it.

 

[sledge]

To steal a phrase from @msop04 the other day....here's one for the "size whore" in all of us!

WF ACA 1.694ct H SI1, $13,089 wire (may not be eye clean, says "inquire", call WF and have them verify)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3565128.htm

Hands down, great size. 7.60mm. Boom. Mic drop.


BGD Blue 1.360 H VS1, $11,360 wire
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.360-h-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104100653073

Love this one. Great clarity, probably more than you should pay for more truthfully. Great size, 7.04mm. Just a hair over your low end budget. Has medium fluor (like my girl's stone) which may help whiten it up a bit since that seems to be a concern.

More info on the BGD Blue line (Blue simply means it uses fluorescence, which BGD does to perfection):
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/


BGD Black 1.274 F VS2, $12,431 wire
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../1.274-f-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104097538034

Wowsa!! This is from BGD's Black series which is their top of the line proprietary cut. Love the color, clarity and cut. If you aren't overly concerned with carats/dimensions then I love this! Although, it still comes in at 6.93mm.

More info on the Black series:
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/news/black-brian-gavin-vs-brian-gavin-signature/

FYI, all these are super ideal diamonds. And if you weren't aware, Brian Gavin actually helped co-found WF and create the ACA super ideal line. A few years back he branched out on his own and created BGD. He is well known and respected for providing a superior cut. I bought my girl's stone from BGD and I love them. Great people with excellent customer service with fair pricing.

Nice thing is you have really awesome vendors to choose from rather you choose BGD, WF, HPD, etc.

 

[msop04]

[snip]Assuming you get a well cut XXX stone with proper angles and percentages, and then true light performance can be confirmed through ASET and Idealscope (IS) images, a GIA XXX stone can be a great choice.

The issue, is many XXX stones are not in that elite group and so we have to be careful and clearly understand the term "excellent" may not be even close to excellent in reality. What can become frustrating is that many XXX stones will initially show good angles & percentages on the reports that should be confirmed with ASET and IS images. Then many times you get those images and the stone isn't as great as you originally thought.

I don't want to scare you. GIA XXX can provide a fantastic bang for the buck, and you can find some very beautiful and sparkly stones. There are just limitations and it takes a good deal more effort IMO to find them. Consequently I find it more risky and frustrating. And many times you find vendors who cannot provide ASET and IS images until you buy the stone and ship to their facility from their supplier. While this is a solution, it involves returns and headaches IMO. But it is doable, and many vendors and suppliers are better than others. It's just a circumstance of dealing with "virtual inventory" to be honest.

To be clear, I understand IDJ to provide exceptional performing stones for value minded customers and to go above & beyond many of the vendors dealing only in virtual inventory. In reality I think they are one of the better choices if you understand the differences and this is what you want.

@Exbro...

While I agree with @sledge on most of this, I don't want you to think that GIA XXX stones are a "value" stone. That's not true at all. As sledge mentioned, they just take more vetting (i.e. all the "work" is not already done for you... they aren't "fool proof"). There are many GIA XXX stones that would receive an AGS Ideal grade if sent to that lab.

For some, it can be frustrating, but to others who want to maximize a budget, finding great cut GIA XXX is super gratifying, as it can save a ton of money allowing the buyer to get higher color/clarity and/or SIZE for their money. Some don't want to do additional research, so they choose a superideal... and that is totally fine (no worries, no stress, guaranteed great stone sight unseen). Of course, you pay a premium for that assurance.

RE IDJ... Yekutiel has worked with PS members for a long time and really knows what a "PS picky" diamond is and has sourced many amazing stones through the years. He has found some incredible deals and true "unicorn" stones (think amazingly cut eye clean SI2's, etc.)... Although he has stones in inventory that a PS-picky client may not go for, he can get ANYTHING. So to say IDJ is a "value stone" supplier is a bit unfair.

@sledge, not picking on you at all, just wanted to make sure the OP didn't get the wrong idea about GIA XXX and such...

 

[msop04]

To steal a phrase from @msop04 the other day....here's one for the "size whore" in all of us!

WF ACA 1.694ct H SI1, $13,089 wire (may not be eye clean, says "inquire", call WF and have them verify)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3565128.htm

Hands down, great size. 7.60mm. Boom. Mic drop.

Okay... imma jump on the ACA train with this particular stone. @Exbro, if you can swing it, this would be my choice. Hands. Down. Best of ALL worlds.

BIG stone? Check. CHECK! (says the size ho)
White color? Check.
Great cut? Check. (HELLO?? it's an ACA)
Clean? Check. (would be waaay clean enough for me, esp considering all the other checked boxes)
Good upgrade policy? Check.

Kudos to sledge for suggesting this one. Now we need to make it happen!

 

[sledge]

@Exbro...

While I agree with @sledge on most of this, I don't want you to think that GIA XXX stones are a "value" stone. That's not true at all. As sledge mentioned, they just take more vetting (i.e. all the "work" is not already done for you... they aren't "fool proof"). There are many GIA XXX stones that would receive an AGS Ideal grade if sent to that lab.

For some, it can be frustrating, but to others who want to maximize a budget, finding great cut GIA XXX is super gratifying, as it can save a ton of money allowing the buyer to get higher color/clarity and/or SIZE for their money. Some don't want to do additional research, so they choose a superideal... and that is totally fine (no worries, no stress, guaranteed great stone sight unseen). Of course, you pay a premium for that assurance.

RE IDJ... Yekutiel has worked with PS members for a long time and really knows what a "PS picky" diamond is and has sourced many amazing stones through the years. He has found some incredible deals and true "unicorn" stones (think amazingly cut eye clean SI2's, etc.)... Although he has stones in inventory that a PS-picky client may not go for, he can get ANYTHING. So to say IDJ is a "value stone" supplier is a bit unfair.

@sledge, not picking on you at all, just wanted to make sure the OP didn't get the wrong idea about GIA XXX and such...

Nah, I have thicker skin that that @msop04.

I totally agree with everything you said, and maybe should have worded my stuff better. I agree you can find unicorn XXX's (wait, what are we talking about? ) that will be great and maybe certified different if they went through AGS.

I've not yet worked with IDJ but have heard so many good things about them. If I was going to go XXX I would want to talk with IDJ and let them do my vetting and sourcing to get me a short list I could consider.

 

[BlingDreams]

I like the size & price of this stone, but I dislike the fact it says "inquire" about being eye clean. That typically means it's not eye clean. Also, I'm not in love with the performance images. Although in fairness this is an "Expert Selection" stone, so price has been adjusted to reflect the (overall minor) imperfections.

FYI....

A Cut Above (ACA) = WF's best

Premium Select = WF's second best (most the time AGS certified and has very, very minor imperfections to not make the ACA mark)

Expert Select = WF's third best. Can be GIA XXX or AGS certified

All qualify for their wonderful trade-in program (spend $1+ more than original price and get full credit of your original stone towards your new purchase).




I also like this stone. It's a very clean VS2. It sizes up well also, 7.16 x 7.21mm. While there are some other very minor imperfections while it missed the ACA mark, it appears the one item I circled below is the main reason it missed the mark.



I believe I've seen this stone before actually. If it's the one I think it is, the stone originated as an ACA and was being considered by another potential buyer. Several PS'ers started reviewing and noticed the spot I pointed out above and started a technical discussion. The VP of WF popped into the discussion and said he would investigate. Shortly after, that stone was downgraded from ACA to Premium Select and the price adjusted accordingly.

Because of the attention to detail, and expedient response I considered this exceptional customer service and gained a lot of respect for both the VP and WF as a whole. Plus, the stone is still a phenomenal performer and even cheaper than when it was an ACA.




Out of this particular WF grouping, I like this the best.

It's bigger than the 1.408ct in both weight and dimensions. You give up a little clarity but this particular SI1 is clean so that helps you on pricing and IMO doesn't give you an VISIBLE downgrade. Also, I prefer to buy under "magic weights" like 1.5cts, 2cts, etc so you can avoid non-sense premiums.




I've not used IDJ but many here have raved about their quality and prices. At the end of the day, it's about $1,000 premium to go to the WF 1.446ct ACA with same specs. I think it's worth the premium myself as I don't see a clear dimension increase that is worthwhile and I don't need to say "1.5ct" to know a 1.446ct is the same. Also, I like the entire package you get with WF and the fact it's a super ideal diamond.

That said, below is a more in-depth explanation of my viewpoint.

Currently there are no actual images or videos on the IDJ site, although I understand they work with their clients to get that information. I do know it's a GIA XXX stone. While many GIA XXX stones are beautiful, you should understand the following:

Best = AGS 000 (super ideals like WF ACA, BGD, HPD, etc)
Better = AGS 0
Good = GIA XXX

Assuming you get a well cut XXX stone with proper angles and percentages, and then true light performance can be confirmed through ASET and Idealscope (IS) images, a GIA XXX stone can be a great choice.

The issue, is many XXX stones are not in that elite group and so we have to be careful and clearly understand the term "excellent" may not be even close to excellent in reality. What can become frustrating is that many XXX stones will initially show good angles & percentages on the reports that should be confirmed with ASET and IS images. Then many times you get those images and the stone isn't as great as you originally thought.

Without getting too geeky on you, this has to do with the fact GIA uses simplistic 2D modeling and a strange method to averaging and rounding up the angles and percentages they report on the GIA report. While numerically those differences seem minor, they can have a drastic effect on the final cut quality of the stone. As such, GIA is currently crippled and cannot objectively assign cut grades. When considering GIA stones, you can utilize the HCA tool to confirm if the angles are complimentary and may provide a good stone but the technology is fairly limited and is always superseded by ASET and IS performance images.

AGS uses advanced 3D modeling that more accurately defines the angles and measurements, and also creates a computer generated ASET. Consequently AGS certs include a cut quality grade that is reliable. Obviously, we are looking for an "ideal" cut so you get the most sparkle. Combine with ideal level symmetry (commonly called hearts & arrow, or H&A) and ideal symmetry and you end up with a super ideal fireball of sparkle.

I don't want to scare you. GIA XXX can provide a fantastic bang for the buck, and you can find some very beautiful and sparkly stones. There are just limitations and it takes a good deal more effort IMO to find them. Consequently I find it more risky and frustrating. And many times you find vendors who cannot provide ASET and IS images until you buy the stone and ship to their facility from their supplier. While this is a solution, it involves returns and headaches IMO. But it is doable, and many vendors and suppliers are better than others. It's just a circumstance of dealing with "virtual inventory" to be honest. Also, many times these vendors tend to offer less stellar trade-in policies, etc.

To be clear, I understand IDJ to provide exceptional performing stones for value minded customers and to go above & beyond many of the vendors dealing only in virtual inventory. In reality I think they are one of the better choices if you understand the differences and this is what you want.




I like Wink quite a bit. He is the owner of HPD and active on the forums here. His love and enthusiasm for diamonds and his clients are off the charts. I enjoy conversing with him and would like an opportunity to buy a CBI stone from him. FYI, CBI is a separate entity that distributes their super ideals through HPD.

I would love to get my hands on one as I've heard many rave about there being a true difference in their cut quality. In the pictures and videos I've seen, it appears there is more "contrast" which I tend to like. But I've also read others state that contrast wasn't visible to them. At this point I am very intrigued and want to see with my own eyes in-person.

The nice thing is the HPD/CBI stone will be a super ideal just like the ACA so it is a cream of the crop stone.

But for these two stones in particular I have the following comments:

On both stones I'd probably consider a wire price because of Wink. From what he's shown me on these boards, he's not driven by money and does the right thing regardless. Of course, I'd also trust WF and BGD with wire transfers as well. However, sometimes when dealing with an "unknown" source (good or bad) it's nice to have the additional protection of a credit card transaction until you can see and establish that trust for yourself.

For performance, I much prefer the HPD 1.21ct to the WF 1.366ct. While both meet your low end budget, the HPD 1.21ct appears to be truly eye clean (always confirm, but Wink will be happy to do this and will be objective in his review), the performance images are top notch and this is a true superideal stone.

The downside is you lose about 0.20mm of face up size (6.9mm vs 7.10mm). Most people with good vision can start to detect a size difference around this 0.20mm mark. However, it is very minimal, about 1/128th of an inch. When compared side by side, you should be able to discern a difference but IMO it's not a memorable size difference that would make you go, "wow, that 1.366 was so much bigger". Unless next to one another, it's unlikely you'd know there was a dimensional difference.

I do agree it SOUNDS BETTER to say 1.366ct vs 1.21ct. Also, keep in mind, diamond weight is kind of a weird way to evaluate diamond size. The length (L) & width (W) dimensions are calculated in the horizontal planes, but the depth (D) is in the vertical plane. You utilize the following formula to arrive at (approximate) carat weight of a round diamond:

L x W x D x 0.061 = carat weight

Take into account actual angles, percentages, etc. and many times a heavier carat weight stone isn't actually that much bigger. In fact when I was shopping I bought my girl a 0.867 H VS2 that had larger L&W dimensions than a 0.90ct G SI1 I was looking at. Granted, the difference was very minimal, but my point still remains.

Buy based on MEMORABLE size dimensions and don't get caught up in the "my d*ck is bigger than yours" game.

Moving on. I am not a fan of the 1.38ct G SI1. To me, the cert looks dirty. Too many inclusions on the table for my preference. But again, I'm sure Wink can confirm if it's eye clean. Remember earlier I said I suffer from that "mind clean" thing? Well this is a stone that would bite me in the arse, as that would not be something I'd like to see or think about. This doesn't mean my opinion is right for you, I'm just sharing what I don't like based on my own preferences/ideas.




I mostly agree with this.

When I look at stones I've learned I am more color sensitive than my girl. To me, D/E looks nearly the same. I then see a very, very faint difference with an F. There is slightly more variation to me between a D/E and G. And finally even a little more between a D/E and H. Keep in mind, this is with diamonds next to each other LOOKING AT THE SIDES. From the top, it gets much tougher for me as diamonds don't typically show much tint/color from the top view. I will re-clarify overall, these are faint differences even at their "worst" difference. I don't think an H is "yellow" by any stretch as some will sometimes say. It has a very minor tint (from the side).

I mention this because when I was buying I wanted a G+ color for my girl, and I got an H. I was worried the H may not be white enough. But others assured me the super ideal stone would appear more white, and in my case I had medium fluorescence which also helps whiten the stone. I am very happy with my choice and wouldn't hesitate on an H that met or exceeded my other criteria.

Although I can be very sensitive with color, I find it is considerably harder for me to identify differences between only one color grade. So while I can see some difference between a D & G stone next to each other on their side, it is much harder for me to see the difference between a G & H or F & G. Then if you showed me a G and let me inspect and take it away for 30 minutes and put an H in front of me to inspect I am not certain the difference would be enough for me to notice or remember (assuming you ran a blind test so I didn't "mentally" see differences).

FYI, some pics of my girl's BGD 0.867 H VS2 for color reference...

SLEEEDDDDGGGGE..... Now you’ve got me feeling all self-conscious and under the microscope!

Really though, nice recap/add-on post

 

[msop04]

...and I'd set it in the Adwar tiffany six prong setting (style number 26303L) if WF could get it. Nice quality soli until she picks a different setting.

https://www.adwar.com/products/styles/26303L/view

 

[sledge]

Just a size comparison between that WF 1.446 and WF 1.694. This is using ACTUAL dimensions of both stones. If you narrow down a few others, you can input yourself @ diamdb.com.

 

[msop04]

@Exbro, I hope our enthusiasm hasn't scared you away. We get pretty excited about diamonds... we live for this stuff!