ISO a Princess

[RedVR6]

Hi all. I am new here. Was pointed to pricescope by a friend of mine and have been lurking for about two weeks. I had no idea there was a whole online diamond community and have to admit, this site has been gold mine of information. So my story…please forgive me in advance if it is repetitive.

It is about that time for me to take the next step with my and I am currently in the market for a princess cut diamond and have been browsing the web for a few weeks looking for information on them, prices, the 4C's, etc…learned of Jonathan’s GOG site and was floored with the information he has on his site. My head is now spinning a little with all this information that I have absorbed and I was wondering if I could get some guidance as to what I should be looking for…. as I am not interested in the diamond district in NYC as I am not haggler nor have the time or patience for the chaos that allegedly goes on there (no offense to anyone of course).

My better half went shopping at the mall to see what she liked recently and found herself in Bailey Banks & Biddle (of all places) with a 1.25ct princess cut, VVS2 on a platinum setting with a side diamonds (excuse the lack of nomenclature), and I am not sure of the rest of the diamond’s specifics. The price tag was about $8,700 ($6,100 for the stone/$2600 for the setting) and I knew I could do better than shopping there or in the mall as my budget is about $5,000 right now….so I was thinking of getting a loose stone now and shop locally for a setting.

GOG mentions that with princess cut they only select stones with tables that are smaller than their total depths. Based on my general searching on pricescope I would say 1 in 10 of the search results come back with a smaller table than their total depths, what gives?

My fiancé to be is petite with relatively small hands…so I think anything up to 1.25ct will be more than suffice, as I would like to get something of quality rather than something of size, but I do want to stay consistent with what she wants. So far, I have gathered that I can cut some corners with the stone’s color and clarity, to make up for size. However, I have also read that 1ct vs 1.25 ct is not a big weight difference. Which is appealing to my wallet.

So, I was wondering if someone could tell me a little more about the princess cut, as there seems to be an abundant amount of information on round diamonds that I have only found. Things like what exactly should be looked for in an ideal/excellent/very good princess cut (girdle size, LightScope, depth vs. table, etc, etc.). I have a decent grasp on it…but I am not 100% comfortable on it all quite yet.

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 4/14/2004 4:05:24 PM RedVR6 wrote:

Hi

Based on my general searching on pricescope I would say 1 in 10 of the search results come back with a smaller table than their total depths, what gives?

----------------

Lots and lots of not-so-nice princess cuts

 

[Nicrez]

My suggestion is to type in princess in the search engine of this site and read away...so many questions have been answered, and I am sure you'll get a whole bunch more!

Also read the tutorials on princess and fancy shapes. You can also see the AGA charts that show the better cuts from princess stones on the home tutorial page as well...

Good luck and look at every princess post, as there is always something to learn!

And YES, lots of ugly princesses out there...but there are a lot of bad cutters, so it's not just princesses!

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 4/14/2004 4:05:24 PM RedVR6 wrote:




However, I have also read that 1ct vs 1.25 ct is not a big weight difference. Which is appealing to my wallet.

----------------

You will find princess cust within a far wider range of depths than those H&A rounds (or even rounds in general). Anything from 64% to 75% depths goes and quite a bit of size is hidden by that difference in cut.

The brilliance of a princess cut is not dependent on depth, so there is no tradeoff or reason to prefere the deeper (and smaller looking) stones, I woudl say.

At the extremes of the range, a 1ct stone with 65% depth would have an average side length of 5.8mm, and a 1.25 with 75% depth would come with average 5.9mm. Conclusion? You may well find a piece between 1-1.2 cts of the size you want... it's really the area of the stone, not the weight that stands for 'size'.

Not much can replace some test of brilliance for a princess cut - since there is no model to predict light return by numbers... and stones selected for light return usually come at a premium. However, stones with nice proportions can more readily be found and most sellers around here would provide an Iscope picture upon request.

 

[valeria101]

How about...

1.27ct, H-SI1

and

1.22cts, G-VS2

I know the second breaks the "table less than depth" rule, but the Iscope pic looks very encouraging !

And, on the same line, I wish there was an Iscope for THIS piece. Not much to judge in those numbers, but if the object does not treat light like a siever it would make a rather attractive deal.

 

[strmrdr]

The whiteflash diamond val linked has a girdle of Extremely Thin To Very Thick do not even consider buying a princess with less than a med. girdle.
The chances of it chipping are just too big.

Some insurance companies are talking of not insuring princesses with less than a med girdle due to high claims or if they do they will charge a large premium for them.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Red,


I'll throw in my .02- because variety is the spice of life!




GOG's site is remarkable in the depth of info offered.




BUT- my outlook on the technicalities is somewhat different.


I have extensive experience with commercial stones. These are cut for a combination of yeild and brilliance.


Therefore I rarely see stones with tables smaller then their depths- but I do see quite a few Pricesses with larger tables that look awesome.


In general, if you like the type of stones I'm speaking of you'll save a bit of money and also have greater selection.




Have you looked yourself at these stones? I suggest you go to a B/M that has both ( good luck finding one!) and compare for yourself.


This will make online shopping much easier and productive.




Hope this helps!

 

[mountainrocks]

I am by no means an expert, but I am the very happy owner of a Princess with AGA 1A proportions (68%T 70%D 12% Crown Height). During my months of shopping and research I looked at lots and lots of Princess Cuts with tables from 63%-84% and depths from 65% to 82%. Here, in no particular order, are my observations:

1. In general smaller tables mean more fire (colored light), while larger tables return more white light, but often in the form of a single large flash, not little sparkles. I like the sparkles, you should look at both kinds to see what you like.

2. Beware the "plastic effect" I don't know what causes it, (I noticed it most in diamonds with tables over 75%, and those with low crowns), but some PCs look dull and plastic when you tilt them even slightly. I really really hated that, it almost made me change to a round diamond.

3. I found that shallow PC's (below 68%) tended to look more like shattered glass when you look down into them (more like Radiants), while the slightly deeper ones (between 70-74) had more defined angles. Both looks can be cool, I'd look at both and see what you prefer.

4. Don't just look at carat weight, look at the spread. My diamond is .92 carats, but because of its relatively shallow depth, it has a greater "spread" than many PCs of over a carat. You can save big $$$ by buying a well cut smaller diamond that looks, bigger and better than a lesser cut big one. Even my apprasier was surprised that my diamond was under a carat, just by looking at it he assumed it was about 1.1

5. Don't buy without getting a crown angle. This makes a big difference in the appearance of PCs. Higher angles are better, mine is over 12%, I didn't see any diamonds I liked that were under 8%.

6. As far as table being greater than depth or less than depth, I saw things both ways that were pretty. I wouldn't get too hung up on that, as long as both of the numbers are good (no 80s) I think you'll be fine.

Good luck with your search. I found that local B&M's had a pretty sad selection, I went to at least 8 stores in my area and saw maybe 3 stones (out of about 75) that I would have considered. I wound up buying from the Whiteflash Expert Selection so I was able to get an Ideal Scope, a sarin, and most importantly, real opinions from real people who had seen the stone. It's really amazing how much of a difference cut makes. One of my friends who has a MUCH more expensive PC almost cried when she saw how much more sparkle and fire my diamond has. Happy hunting, post pictures when you buy something.

 

[RedVR6]

Thank you all for the great information! It is really helpful! I do understand I have quite a bit more research to do as far as understanding dimensions, etc. and I am currently working on that. Plus, we ought to take a stroll through some B&M's so I can see some diamonds in person to get a better understanding of what I am looking at and what to expect. I do like the idea of buying online, which is what I will likely do.

Man, and people think cars and computers are so hard to figure out. heh.

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 4/14/2004 5:48:00 PM mountainrocks wrote:



5. Don't buy without getting a crown angle. This makes a big difference in the appearance of PCs. Higher angles are better, mine is over 12%, I didn't see any diamonds I liked that were under 8%.

----------------

Those numbers correspond to crown height, not angles... (not that I don't write it like this often enough).

Wow mountainrocks, you really did take the full-scale approach to selectiong a princess cut!

Most of these issues (and probably some more, what do I know) ended up summarized by those numbers in the AGA chart... I still think one would want to see some test of optics (or the stone in hand) after those criteria are cleared. As David says, it would be great to actually find a place to compare all options and go for the look, but that means taking up a second job

I would not be such a fan of those Ideal Scope and Brillaince Scope reports, if actual diamond pictures would be more informative. However, it is not easy to take good pictures of diamonds and I barely know one or two sellers showing decent diamond pictures. Between the puzzling dark field pics and some fiery display hiding all inclusions and cut details, there is but some narrow (and rarely explored) room for compromise...