Is this rude?

[tessari]

Hi Everyone!

I just got engaged on 1/1...this is my first topic in BWW!

My FI wants to have a family only ceremony in the afternoon and then invite everyone else to cocktail hour and the reception after. He doesn''t want people he doesn''t know too well (parents'' friends he''s never met) to see us getting married so he strictly wants to limit it to parents, siblings and grandparents. I have friends that got married at a destination wedding and then had a reception after and that''s more acceptable...BUT neither one of us wants to do that, we both want the ceremony and reception on the same day. I want my FI to be happy and not to make him uncomfortable but I feel weird telling my best friend and people that traveled from across the country to our wedding that they can''t see us actually get married. Our reception will only be about 100 people. Also, my a friend of mine recently went to a private ceremony wedding and she said a lot of people were grumbling about not being able to see the ceremony. I don''t want to start our life together by alienating people who are important to us. What do you all think? I''m trying to come up with a way to present this to my FI.

Thanks...

 

[meresal]

IMHO, this is not a good idea. Especially if you are going to have OOT guests. With an occassion as big as this, a simple invite to the "after-part" is not acceptable to guests.

ETA: As far as ways to present it to him, I would try to find articles online, and just tell him that you don't want to offend your family and friends. Yes, that may be what "HE" wants, but this wedding is about both of you. There needs to be some compromise.

If you do decide to go with the samll ceremony and large reception, your only out would be if the ceremony site only "allows/seats" a certain amount of guests. But regardless, you're going to offend some people.

I'll look for some articles that you can read over.

 

[sunnyd]

I don''t know about rude, but I think it would definitely offend people.

Is he really that against being the center of attention? Sorry, I don''t really know what else to say...

 

[wannaBMrsH]

Good Post!

A great friend of mine was engaged last year and they were initially doing this private ceremony, small after party thing and to be perfectly honest, it really didn''t sit well. Everyone knew that the budget was really tight, but there were several options (several of which offended or alienated different people). Initially, she invited me but not my live in BF (now my FI) because they were trying to keep it small.

The next option was to have a "private" ceremony and a small reception. She asked me if I would come to the ceremony and then have BF join me for the reception. I told her as politely as I could that it would probably be better for me to either go alone or both of us to regretfully miss the wedding as it wouldn''t be right to ask him to drive me there and find something to do while the ceremony was going on or worse, drive himself there later and both of us have to drive home separately.

In the end, she ended up cutting the guest list very dramatically and somehow FI and I BOTH made the cut! She is actually a very close friend of mine. Otherwise, we definitely would have skipped the whole thing after all that drama!

Tessari- especially with OOT guests, I would really recommend that you make very careful edits to your guest list. And discuss your guest list with your fiance. Maybe then, those guests will be just as special to him as they are to you. Maybe you can explain that your best friend has seen you through all your ups and downs (and bad boyfriends) and it would mean so much to you to have her there to witness you marrying the most amazing man in your life (him!). You can explain that your out of town guests are also there because witnessing your marriage means something to them and while you also don''t need to have everyone that knows your family there, your mom''s best friend helped her raise you (or whatever the reason).

 

[Morgie44]

Does he want it to be private because he is shy or because of some sort of religious beliefs (for example I believe Mormans sp? ) only allow other believers inside the temples? If it is the latter I think it is fine. If it is because he is shy or just a private person, I think it is a little rude.

One way you may be able to circumvent this: FI''s cousin is having a Friday 3 pm ceremony with an evening reception. While all the guests are invited to both ceremony and reception, many people have already told them they probably won''t make the ceremony, because it is so early on a week day. But those who are closest to the couple are of course, going to make a point of getting off work so they can come for the ceremony too. Also, friday receptions are much cheaper. I think they are saving 20% on their reception food bill. Maybe this could be some kind of compromise.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I don''t think that "rude" is right word...but awkward is probably a way to sum the idea up.

I believe that most people do go to a wedding for the party, but when you''re inviting someone to the wedding...you should hope they come for the ceremony. I think OOT guests will probably be totally thrown....

In short, I wouldn''t do it.

 

[bee*]

I don''t think it''s rude and I do doubt that people will be offended if it''s explained to them that only parents/siblings are going to be in attendance, however you''re not happy so that''s the important thing. If you want your friends there then your friends should be there. That''s fine that your Fi wants only people close to him there while he''s saying I do, but there should be a compromise.

 

[teapot]

I don't think it is rude, but it will offend people. If he wants a private ceremony, why not have an intimate ceremony and then right before the cocktail/reception have a ritual so not to offend your guest.

ETA: congratulations on your engagement.

 

[PilsnPinkysMom]

Hmmmm.... It would seem to me that a close friend of yours is VERY different from a parent''s friend that neither of you have met before. As much as he doesn''t want strangers at your wedding ceremony, you shouldn''t have to exclude people that are very important to you!!

Weddings involve some compromise. Perhaps you can suggest this to your FI? Agree not to invite a friend, of a friend, of a friend, or agree not to allow every invitee to bring a guest, but agree that your own close/best friends should be invited. Important people in our lives extent beyond blood relatives, and I think that your FI will understand this.

Keep us updated!

 

[swingirl]

So does that mean he wants only his favorite people to see him get married but he doesn't want your favorite people to see you get married (because they'll also be watching him)? Do you agree with this or would you like close friends to be at your ceremony?

 

[princesss]

I just want to throw a potential guest''s view on this into the discussion:

Right or wrong, I would probably assume that the bride and groom wanted a small wedding, but also wanted a lot of presents. Yes, most people go to the weddings for the reception, but it would feel like I was being told, "You aren''t special enough to share in one of the happiest moments of our lives, but you''re special enough to hit up for a gift!" It would leave a bad taste in my mouth and I would decline, and probably think less of anybody that asked that of me. I''m sorry if that comes out harsh, but it''s true for me, and I''m willing to bet it''s true for some other people.

However, scheduling a wedding for 3 pm on a Friday is genius if everybody is coming from the same place you''re hosting the wedding. For OOT guests, though, I think you''re between a rock and a hard place with this. It''s hard to ask people to travel that far just for a party when they KNOW they didn''t make the cut for the ceremony, you know?

 

[meresal]

Date: 1/5/2009 2:54:57 PM
Author: princesss
I just want to throw a potential guest's view on this into the discussion:

Right or wrong, I would probably assume that the bride and groom wanted a small wedding, but also wanted a lot of presents. Yes, most people go to the weddings for the reception, but it would feel like I was being told, 'You aren't special enough to share in one of the happiest moments of our lives, but you're special enough to hit up for a gift!' It would leave a bad taste in my mouth and I would decline, and probably think less of anybody that asked that of me. I'm sorry if that comes out harsh, but it's true for me, and I'm willing to bet it's true for some other people.

However, scheduling a wedding for 3 pm on a Friday is genius if everybody is coming from the same place you're hosting the wedding. For OOT guests, though, I think you're between a rock and a hard place with this. It's hard to ask people to travel that far just for a party when they KNOW they didn't make the cut for the ceremony, you know?

Eventhough, etiquette in the US says that only a "Ceremony" invitation is supposed to bear gift... I don't think many people would know this. I for one, had no clue until I began looking for articles regarding this thread topic.

Princess, you make a very valid point, and the exact thing would cross my mind. But also, in reading these articles, it seems that this may be somehwat of a "norm" in the midwest... or at least that is what these other brides are telling themselves.

 

[princesss]

Date: 1/5/2009 3:18:03 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 1/5/2009 2:54:57 PM
Author: princesss
I just want to throw a potential guest's view on this into the discussion:

Right or wrong, I would probably assume that the bride and groom wanted a small wedding, but also wanted a lot of presents. Yes, most people go to the weddings for the reception, but it would feel like I was being told, 'You aren't special enough to share in one of the happiest moments of our lives, but you're special enough to hit up for a gift!' It would leave a bad taste in my mouth and I would decline, and probably think less of anybody that asked that of me. I'm sorry if that comes out harsh, but it's true for me, and I'm willing to bet it's true for some other people.

However, scheduling a wedding for 3 pm on a Friday is genius if everybody is coming from the same place you're hosting the wedding. For OOT guests, though, I think you're between a rock and a hard place with this. It's hard to ask people to travel that far just for a party when they KNOW they didn't make the cut for the ceremony, you know?

Eventhough, etiquette in the US says that only a 'Ceremony' invitation is supposed to bear gift... I don't think many people would know this. I for one, had no clue until I began looking for articles regarding this thread topic.

Princess, you make a very valid point, and the exact thing would cross my mind. But also, in reading these articles, it seems that this may be somehwat of a 'norm' in the midwest... or at least that is what these other brides are telling themselves.

If it's the norm in your* area, then it seems that this falls into the same category as the dollar dance and cash bars. Do it if it's commonly done in your area, but don't expect people from different regions to understand.

And I didn't know that only people invited to the ceremony are "supposed" to bring gifts. Interesting!

ETA: * "Your area" being a general place, not yours in particular, meresal

 

[tessari]

Thanks for responding everyone!

Meresal--thanks for looking stuff up, I think we must have seen the same post on another board with a similar question where the bride said that in the midwest this is the norm...I also saw that people do this in Europe. But I''ve never seen it done here, other than friends who got married with just family here and then had a reception a week later in their home state.

My FI is really outgoing and actually likes being the center of attention but he feels that getting married is too intimate to share with people he doesn''t know. And Swingirl--he would be excluding his best friends as well--which is only fair! His best friend is closer to him than his own brother!

My FI really doesn''t care about gifts--but I know he won''t want us to look like we''re expecting gifts from people who are essentially just coming to a party--so that''s a good perspective. Also, not too many of our friends are married yet so if we do this to them would they then not invite us to their weddings at all or exclude just us from their ceremony--that would be vindictive but still, something to think about!

I think the idea some of you had about making the ceremony at a time/place that''s not so convenient is a simple solution: those who really want to be there will make it. We are getting married in wine country, about an hour north of the city and maybe we''ll get married at 2:00 pm, take pictures and hang out and then have the reception start at 5:30. We plan to have shuttles taking the guests from the city up to the country for the reception so nobody gets a DUI... so if we don''t have shuttles for the afternoon people who want to go to the ceremony will have to drive up there on their own or stay there the night before and can go wine tasting in between. I think my FI would like that idea....and I like it too! That way people who just want to party can do that w/o feeling bad and people who really want to see us get married can do that too.

I think I''m gathering some good ideas and arguments! I will let you know how it goes!

 

[cara]

Just answered this question in another thread.

You are allowed to have a small ceremony and invite a larger group to celebrate at the reception but... You and your FI should reach some kind of compromise on the guest list. If you want your best friend at the ceremony, talk to your FI about what you want - its your wedding too! If I was your beloved aunt who flew across the country, I would be miffed/hurt/sad if I was excluded from seeing the ceremony. If I were a good friend living far away invited only to the reception, I might be less inclined to splurge on tickets just for the reception. So... I would worry less about the grumbling (people will grumble no matter what) and more about reaching a nice compromise with your FI that will enable you both to be happy with the wedding you end up with. Maybe cut the guest list even further (to 50-75 pp) and invite everyone to both. Maybe keep the ceremony smaller than the reception, but expand the ceremony guest list to include your closest friends and key OOT guests, knowing that some people will be less likely to fly if not invited to the ceremony. There is no reason to invite your FI's parents' friends whom neither of you have met, period. (Unless the inlaws are funding the wedding and insisting, in which case your FI will have to get over it.)

ETA: Just saw your proposed venue/shuttle ideas. The right way to do this would be to get married in wine country (earlier than 2pm) and then have the reception in the city, presuming most of the people you know live in the city. Thus the path of least resistance for your guests is to stay in the city for the reception, and folks will have to drive there and back to get to the ceremony.

And, you will have to do something different for the invitations. I think you need separate invite cards for the ceremony and reception, and your reply card needs to make clear it is OK to accept the reception alone. Most guests will feel obliged to make an effort to go the ceremony if invited, as barring usual circumstances, one is not supposed to skip the wedding and just go the party if invited to both.

 

[katamari]

I, like your FI, believe that there is a difference between the intimacy of declaring your intent to share your life with someone at a wedding and the celebration of a marriage at a reception. And, I absolutely hate that tradition has linked them together, but it has.

It was very important for FI and I to separate the two. However, we are having a destination elopement. We love to travel, and definitely wanted an awesome vacation as part of our wedding celebration. But, we also fully believed this was the only feasible way to have a private ceremony without hurting the people closest to us. I do not believe you could have a ceremony with anyone more than your parents locally without it being received differently than you intend (I''m just not sure that offense is the only and uniform response people will have).

It does make me sick, though, that people might see the fact that anyone wants to celebrate a marriage with them as a plea for gifts. I would absolutely not think this, but it does support my earlier point that everyone may interpret your intentions differently, so you need to be cautious.


ETA: by "sick" here, I mean upset, not disgusted

 

[swingirl]

Date: 1/5/2009 4:02:27 PM
Author: tessari
Thanks for responding everyone!


Meresal--thanks for looking stuff up, I think we must have seen the same post on another board with a similar question where the bride said that in the midwest this is the norm...I also saw that people do this in Europe. But I've never seen it done here, other than friends who got married with just family here and then had a reception a week later in their home state.


My FI is really outgoing and actually likes being the center of attention but he feels that getting married is too intimate to share with people he doesn't know. And Swingirl--he would be excluding his best friends as well--which is only fair! His best friend is closer to him than his own brother! Not fair at all. It's no loss for him because he doesn't want them there in the first place. It is a loss for you because you want your friends there.


My FI really doesn't care about gifts--but I know he won't want us to look like we're expecting gifts from people who are essentially just coming to a party--so that's a good perspective. Also, not too many of our friends are married yet so if we do this to them would they then not invite us to their weddings at all or exclude just us from their ceremony--that would be vindictive but still, something to think about!

 

[havernell]

To put cara's point more bluntly, why do you have to invite "parents' friends he's never met" or other strangers to your ceremony OR reception at all?? Are your/his parents demanding that strangers be invited? If not, why not just have BOTH the ceremony and reception limited to family and friends that you are close to? It seems that if he doesn't want strangers to see him get married, the simple solution would be to just not invite those strangers to anything wedding related!

No need to fear strangers if you just exclude them from the guest list from the beginning.

 

[honey22]

Date: 1/5/2009 4:02:27 PM
Author: tessari
Thanks for responding everyone!

Meresal--thanks for looking stuff up, I think we must have seen the same post on another board with a similar question where the bride said that in the midwest this is the norm...I also saw that people do this in Europe. But I''ve never seen it done here, other than friends who got married with just family here and then had a reception a week later in their home state.

My FI is really outgoing and actually likes being the center of attention but he feels that getting married is too intimate to share with people he doesn''t know. And Swingirl--he would be excluding his best friends as well--which is only fair! His best friend is closer to him than his own brother!

My FI really doesn''t care about gifts--but I know he won''t want us to look like we''re expecting gifts from people who are essentially just coming to a party--so that''s a good perspective. Also, not too many of our friends are married yet so if we do this to them would they then not invite us to their weddings at all or exclude just us from their ceremony--that would be vindictive but still, something to think about!

I think the idea some of you had about making the ceremony at a time/place that''s not so convenient is a simple solution: those who really want to be there will make it. We are getting married in wine country, about an hour north of the city and maybe we''ll get married at 2:00 pm, take pictures and hang out and then have the reception start at 5:30. We plan to have shuttles taking the guests from the city up to the country for the reception so nobody gets a DUI... so if we don''t have shuttles for the afternoon people who want to go to the ceremony will have to drive up there on their own or stay there the night before and can go wine tasting in between. I think my FI would like that idea....and I like it too! That way people who just want to party can do that w/o feeling bad and people who really want to see us get married can do that too.

I think I''m gathering some good ideas and arguments! I will let you know how it goes!

Then if it''s too intimate to share with these people, then don''t invite them to the after party/reception. You can''t have it both ways on the day I would say.

I understand where you are coming from though, my FI feels exactly the same way, he is a confident outgoing friendly guy, but wants our wedding to be very private. Parents, my Nanna and siblings only, and 3 couples we have know for many years. We are having a small reception dinner at the resort (destination wedding). We had considered having a party at home, but decided against it for financial reasons. FI and I want to share the whole day with those closest to us and that includes the dinner afterwards. It''s our chance to share our first meal as husband and wife and have a lovely dinner together with our family.

I think if you want to celebrate with friends, you should make it a separate event on a different day. Invite people to the celebration but make it clear that it''s not the wedding reception. You could use your announcements as invites, somethng along the lines of Mr and Mrs Honey got married on (date). Come and celebrate with them at a party thrown for the newlyweds or something along those lines. It makes it a whole lot easier to pull this off when you are running away to get married, people seem to understand not being invited to a small destination wedding easier.

 

[tessari]

Date: 1/5/2009 10:37:38 PM
Author: havernell
To put cara''s point more bluntly, why do you have to invite ''parents'' friends he''s never met'' or other strangers to your ceremony OR reception at all?? Are your/his parents demanding that strangers be invited? If not, why not just have BOTH the ceremony and reception limited to family and friends that you are close to? It seems that if he doesn''t want strangers to see him get married, the simple solution would be to just not invite those strangers to anything wedding related!

No need to fear strangers if you just exclude them from the guest list from the beginning.

These will mostly be strangers to my FI, I have known these people for most of my life but FI has never met them bc they live very far away. I have to invite these people bc my parents are paying for the wedding. I think it''s my dad''s friends'' presence that bothers FI the most bc he''s never met them but I really don''t think my dad can exclude these people from our wedding unless it really is a tiny destination wedding. Anyway, as you see, this is all complicated...I think my FI is starting to see that this may offend some people. The other night my parents even gently told him that this would offend some people and I think he finally got it. So I think when we talk about it I''ll tell him that either it''s a destination/small wedding that''s really family only OR the whole big wedding with everyone invited to everything. The hybrid is not really something I am comfortable with anymore. Between the small family only wedding and the huge wedding...I would be happy with either one.

 

[Shoopy]

I wouldn''t say its rude but it is a little odd. I can see why he would want the ceremony itself to be special but even those that show up because they want the free booze will still wish you well on your event and it doesn''t hurt to have those positive vibes around you (in other words, having random people there won''t take away from how special the event would be).

And personally speaking, as in this is the opinion of Fieryred33143, when someone invites me to the reception and not the ceremony I *always* think they did it to increase their gift load.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 1/5/2009 7:44:41 PM
Author: katamari
I, like your FI, believe that there is a difference between the intimacy of declaring your intent to share your life with someone at a wedding and the celebration of a marriage at a reception. And, I absolutely hate that tradition has linked them together, but it has.

It was very important for FI and I to separate the two. However, we are having a destination elopement. We love to travel, and definitely wanted an awesome vacation as part of our wedding celebration. But, we also fully believed this was the only feasible way to have a private ceremony without hurting the people closest to us. I do not believe you could have a ceremony with anyone more than your parents locally without it being received differently than you intend (I'm just not sure that offense is the only and uniform response people will have).

It does make me sick, though, that people might see the fact that anyone wants to celebrate a marriage with them as a plea for gifts. I would absolutely not think this, but it does support my earlier point that everyone may interpret your intentions differently, so you need to be cautious.


ETA: by 'sick' here, I mean upset, not disgusted

Ditto to katamari and your FI. I would love for my ceremony to be private - you're entering into a sacred binding with someone else, and I think you should only have people there who are there to support you, not just support your parents. I totally think you can do all of this if it's what you decide to do. I think the way to do it is to word the invitation as "so and so will be married in an intimate, private ceremony" and "please join us to celebrate the union at x place x time/date" - I would never be offended by this. I guess it completely depends on the viewpoint of the person (do they view the ceremony/reception as just a party, or do they respect your feelings of privacy in such a serious/special time and realize the couple wants to maintain that feeling in the ceremony). BUT I think the only viewpoint that matters is the common one you and your FI decide on. Guests can deal and respect your wishes or not come (if they do this and can't respect your wishes, I say they don't need to be there anyway).

In any case, I do agree that you and FI need to come to a common goal for this. BUT I wanted you to know that I do see where he's coming from and agree. Heck, if this thread brings about a good path for you (PLEASE let us know what you decide to do!!) then I may do the same! I'd love to.

ETA: I do think that if you don't let people know your reasoning, they will certainly be offended, or at least think about the gift things mentioned already in the thread. But I think people would understand if you word it somehow, like I did above.

 

[musey]

Date: 1/5/2009 2:54:57 PM
Author: princesss
Right or wrong, I would probably assume that the bride and groom wanted a small wedding, but also wanted a lot of presents. Yes, most people go to the weddings for the reception, but it would feel like I was being told, ''You aren''t special enough to share in one of the happiest moments of our lives, but you''re special enough to hit up for a gift!''

Yup, I think I''d interpret it the same way. I don''t know that I''d be especially offended, but I would roll my eyes over it and think that it was silly. I wouldn''t decline out of spite - if I wanted to go, I''d go. I think it would take a lot for me to decline a wedding out of spite.

However, you did say the ceremony was family only... I feel torn. I understand the logic of wanting to have a very private, intimate ceremony and a big party to celebrate with friends... but they should be separated, IMO, to avoid awkwardness.

 

[Mayflower25]

This thread reminded me of a wedding that I attended last summer. There were a number of things that struck me as peculiar, but the responses on this thread have let me know its not just in my head!

My apologies ahead of time for thread jacking!

The bride was an old friend from school whom I had lost contact with and almost never spoke to for the past 3 years. Well, a few months before the wedding I received a text message from her asking for my address so that she could send me and FI an invite. A couple weeks later we received it - along with their registry cards (strike one!). I sent our response cards accepting the invite and called to express congratulations. Sometime later I got a call from a girl (one of her new close friends, whom I had never met) inviting me to the bachelorette party and asking for my help to plan. I accepted and was very excited to help plan the party. When I arrived there were only a few girls in attendance, maybe 8 of us, and it seemed that we had all been fairly close to the bride at one time or another and we had a good time.

Sometime later I was looking at the invitation and date, and I realized that there was no ceremony time/date/location listed. I thought, did I lose another card? So I called the bride to inquire. She was in fact having a private ceremony with family and close friends (half the girls at the bachelorette party were invited!) at her parent''s home which is TWO MILES away from my house (strike two!). She offered an invite, but I declined gracefully, considering I hadn''t been included in the first place. I immediately felt awkward and somewhat slighted, but was already committed to attending the reception.

So then comes the day of the reception. FI and I get to the cocktail room of the reception on time, before the majority of other guests. We quickly find out during the hour and a half of waiting, that there is a CASH BAR ONLY and all of the hors d''oevres were passed and consumed before we got there (STRIKE THREE). I''m not kidding, they were even charging for sodas.

Lastly came the seating. There were approximately 150+ guests and NO assigned seating- not even tables. FI and I were lucky to find a table with people our own age. It was a very strange experience and probably the last wedding I plan to attend of people that I rarely see or speak to.

Thanks for reading

 

[Pandora II]

I''ve been to one wedding where we couldn''t see the ceremony: the whole wedding was held in the family''s villa in Italy which had a private family chapel. It was so tiny that only about 8 people could fit in there.

However they did rig a PA system so we could all hear it from outside and they did a formal exit to greet all the guests.

The reception was then held in the grounds.

The family members had married in the chapel for generations so I didn''t find it strange at all.

However, if I received a reception only invitation, I would possibly go if it was in London and could just drop in, but I wouldn''t go if it was a long distance away. I would just presume I was on the couple''s B list and they wouldn''t really care either way if I came or not.

My parents paid for our wedding and as a result a large number of the guests were their friends who I also know well, but DH didn''t. My father would have gone nuts if we had even hinted about a private ceremony - yours is VERY calm I must say!