Is this princess cut too shallow?

[dmush]

I am searching for the perfect princess cut and I have done a little research. I saw this one on blue nile and was wondering if it is too shallow:
1.60 ct F VS2 depth 65.9 table 68 thin to med girdle vg pol good sym 6.72x6.68x4.40 approx $12000

 

[researcher]

Stones with that depth are not my preference (they tend to have smaller crowns), but the depth does fall into the ideal category on the cut charts. However, you usually want to try to keep the table smaller than or equal to the depth. This stone will face up HUGE for its size, but it's not going to have a lot of fire. Do you have info on the crown?

 

[dmush]

No, there was any crown info available, but I requested it from Blue Nile.

 

[dmush]

If the crown % is within reason, could this be a beautiful looking stone?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Wow-Congrats DMush!

IN terms of price- It is certainly reasonable in today's market. Blue Nile is certainly the best known internet diamond seller.
I'd say that likely the diamond is very pretty- of course you can't definatively say one way another till you see it in person- or at least a good digiphoto.

----------------
On 10/2/2004 12:18:53 PM researcher wrote:

However, you usually want to try to keep the table smaller than or equal to the depth. This stone will face up HUGE for its size, but it's not going to have a lot of fire. Do you have info on the crown?----------------

I respectfully disagree.
First of all, there are many cases where a beautiful princess cut can have a table larger than it's depth.
The only ironclad fact we can say about such a stone is that is will indeed look much larger than many deeper stones which could also be very well cut.
It's simply not possible to state with confidence that a stone has no fire based simply on the table and depth dmush listed.

This is a stone which probably does not do well on "cut-meters"- yet I happen to love the way it looks- as does it's owner.
There are many reasons to cut a diamond using different proportions- most of them motivated by money- but still- cutting factories around the world have gotten much better at producing beautiful diamonds form the limited amounts of rough available. After all, it is much easier to sell a pretty diamond.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

David until you demonstrate what your photo's are and how they are taken I doubt that you should be aofering such advise.

That photo of a princess is totally meaningless.

 

[moremoremore]

I"m sorry...but I personally think that stone looks very dark in the center. Is it just the photography?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Garry- Thankfully, quite a few folks find value in my photos. They accurately reflect the appearance of the subjects.

But regardless if you like my photos or not, how does a photograph I've taken disqualify my opinion about the cut of a diamond?


Moremoremore- yes, the center of the 2.27 is slightly darker than the edges - and you can see this in the photo- yet, to me, it is not a detraction from the look of the diamond.
By the way- the fact that someone noticed an aspect of the cut demonstrates the value of the photo.
I stand by my statement that these photos give a very good idea of the nature of the subject.


Here is a more extreme example of a stone with a dark center and sparkle at the edges.

It's true that a lot of cuts are designed to make a stone with even sparkle, girdle to gitrdle. But that does not mean that stones like this oldminer can't be a pretty, and desirable diamond.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Value as in pretty to look at or value as in depicting or in some way representing a product?

The darkness in the princess (and the oval too) could be caused by the camera, or it could be caused by leakage out the pavilion. We have no way of knowing because for some reason you wish to keep the method secret.

We do not know where the light comes from, if you use a flash etc etc David.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

HI Garry,
Of course no photo can give a 100% depiction of anything. I feel our photos come as close as any I've seen. As far the accuracy, and representative qualities of my photos: We've sold thousands of stones- every single one was photographed and represented like the photos in this thread.
We've never gotten a return based on the stone not looking like the photo- not one. So I'd say the value of my photos is decorative, as well as informational.
Another shot of the 2.27- The photos DO give a very good idea of the way the stone looks in person.

Of course none of this depends on you knowing my methods.
It's proprietary information.


I would respectfully suggest that even a single photo of mine is worth far more to the consumer than a computer model's score.

 

[moremoremore]

To get back on track: DMush, did you get any more info on the stone?

Here is another example of a princess. This particular stone has an amazing lightscope image...
its depth was 72.4, table 69, 11.6 crown...

Let us know what you decide!!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

So David you really do believe that your camera replaces all other grading systems?

Wow!

 

[researcher]

I think it would be interesting to test those stones using the ideal scope, BScope, etc. to determine whether a picture really is worth a thousand words. Are you up for it, David?

 

[moremoremore]

I'm sure that the picture actually does represent the stone fairly. BUT I don't think that's a good thing by any means. I'm sorry David, you sound like such a nice man, but you can't offer a stone like that here and expect people to say that's a pretty stone. Well, I hope it found a good home and I hope you do well and wish you no ill will ...there is a market for everything.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

moremoremore- I'm not offering any stones here - I apologize if it seemed like I was trying to offer a stone for sale.
I don't understand why you'd say that the photo fairly represents the diamond- yet you say that's a bad thing.


IS the 2.27 pretty? I think it is. I really don't know how it would score on any of the tests that researcher suggests- but I really don't use those type of tools.
I mean, look at it this way. How many 2.27 J/VVS2 princess cuts do you come across? I don't see that many. This one had the advantage of medium blue which made it look like an H color. And call me crazy, but when I looked at the stone ( even before I looked at the GIA report)- I liked it.
This is not about me offering the stone, it's sold- but in when I bought it, it was well priced. 74% is not a shallow stone by any means- it borders on too deep. But I loved the overall look of that diamond.
If I saw the stone today, at a good price, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat.

Of course a photo can not replace a grading report from GIA. But I would always prefer to see a good photo of something as opposed to the type of reports that reasercher mentioned.

If someone does not think the 2.27 is pretty, they are of course, entitled to their opinion.
But say someone is reading this, has a similar diamond- or even the lady who ended up with this stone- say they really like it- someone has to stand up for the "other side".


There are badly cut diamonds- but in my opinion, the 2.27 does not fall into that category.
There are also people who buy ugly diamonds at high prices because they don't know better- and regretfully, there are sellers who take advantage of this. I appreciate that the tools in question are designed to try and help the consumer.

But I'm reminded of this hammer that they sell to smash your car window in case you were trapped in a car. It was tested on TV- and the reporter could not smash the window no matter how hard they tried. Relying on a tool with uncertain results can be dangerous.
My suggestion is to find the right place to buy, and get friendly with someone you trust.
This whole thread started because a guy was asking about a Blue Nile Diamond. The guy might be able to save a few bucks if he shopped around- but can anyone here advise against buying from Blue Nile? Of course not- Blue Nile is not going to rip the guy off. If he does not like the dimaond, he might be out a couple of bucks, but he'll get a refund no problem.

Ultimately the question is: Should I buy the diamond? And the answer has a lot to do with who's doing the selling.