shape
carat
color
clarity

Is this one good?

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
If good with the color, I would go ahead and put on hold. Then call and request and aset and idealscope image to confirm light performance.
 

skypie

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
503
Seconded, provided you are OK with the tint of a K color diamond.
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
Thank you both! How do I figure out the color difference between K and I? I have an I.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
Thank you both! How do I figure out the color difference between K and I? I have an I.

You're welcome.

See below for some references. Keep in mind, depending on your color sensitivity, it may be hard to accurately gauge this page (or any) due to the fact each computer monitor will display color slightly different. The exception being if you are a Photoshop guru that has a calibrated monitor, and then it might be somewhat accurate.

Still for the laymen, it does a good job of representing the differences.

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-di...laboratory-color-grading-of-diamonds-1249.htm

Cliff notes:
  • From the top view, you will be able to tell little difference.
  • Diamonds are graded from the sides, and that is where the tint will start to make it's presence known.
  • Even from the side, I think there is minimal difference between an I and K.
  • In higher colors (H+) sometimes you will notice color grading is a little more subjective so you may find a "high K" meaning it's almost J, or possibly a "low K" meaning it's almost L.
  • A good way to combat this is to have JA pull the stone in question with a comparable stone of same size, cut, etc but in an I color and have them compare. Maybe even pull a couple of I's. If they will do it, have them shoot you a video of the comparison so your own eyes can see the difference. Otherwise you will have to take their word for it, but as long as they are true gemologist I probably wouldn't have too many issues with that.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,975
I adore this particular stone
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
Thanks!

You're welcome.

See below for some references. Keep in mind, depending on your color sensitivity, it may be hard to accurately gauge this page (or any) due to the fact each computer monitor will display color slightly different. The exception being if you are a Photoshop guru that has a calibrated monitor, and then it might be somewhat accurate.

Still for the laymen, it does a good job of representing the differences.

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-di...laboratory-color-grading-of-diamonds-1249.htm

Cliff notes:
  • From the top view, you will be able to tell little difference.
  • Diamonds are graded from the sides, and that is where the tint will start to make it's presence known.
  • Even from the side, I think there is minimal difference between an I and K.
  • In higher colors (H+) sometimes you will notice color grading is a little more subjective so you may find a "high K" meaning it's almost J, or possibly a "low K" meaning it's almost L.
  • A good way to combat this is to have JA pull the stone in question with a comparable stone of same size, cut, etc but in an I color and have them compare. Maybe even pull a couple of I's. If they will do it, have them shoot you a video of the comparison so your own eyes can see the difference. Otherwise you will have to take their word for it, but as long as they are true gemologist I probably wouldn't have too many issues with that.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
While I think the K is a lovely stone, I do have a few thoughts now that I know this is an upgrade and can see the specs of the original. Would like to hear @rockysalamander's input especially.
  • Original stone: 1.23ct I VS2, AGS000, 55.4 table, 34.9 crown & 40.7 pavilion, 15.5% crown thickness
  • New stone: 2.27ct K VS1, GIA XXX, 57 table, 34 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 14.5% crown thickness
Some people indicate AGS color grading can be "softer" than GIA color grading in the lower colors. Not everyone agrees on this point. If true/valid, then theoretically a GIA K would not be as drastic of a jump from an AGS I, correct?

Wondering how the smaller table in combo with the higher & thicker crown on the original 1.23ct will play out as a "preference" to the OP? Obviously pavilion angle is increasing to offset the lower crown on the K stone.

Also, the 1.23ct had true H&A symmetry. The K has excellent symmetry but may not be true H&A symmetry.

Lastly, while angles are good and I anticipate no issues, the 1.23 stone had an Ideal 0 cut grade. Nothing exists for GIA for cut grade. Using the proportions charts we can reasonably assume the K will likely also be an ideal cut stone.

Again, I think the stone is great and I am NOT trying to invoke fear or concern. I am just curious the thoughts of how these minor details might affect any preferences the OP has grown accustomed to from the original 1.23ct stone.


Capture.PNG
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
Very informational. Thanks! Does this mean the K is more flat?

While I think the K is a lovely stone, I do have a few thoughts now that I know this is an upgrade and can see the specs of the original. Would like to hear @rockysalamander's input especially.
  • Original stone: 1.23ct I VS2, AGS000, 55.4 table, 34.9 crown & 40.7 pavilion, 15.5% crown thickness
  • New stone: 2.27ct K VS1, GIA XXX, 57 table, 34 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 14.5% crown thickness
Some people indicate AGS color grading can be "softer" than GIA color grading in the lower colors. Not everyone agrees on this point. If true/valid, then theoretically a GIA K would not be as drastic of a jump from an AGS I, correct?

Wondering how the smaller table in combo with the higher & thicker crown on the original 1.23ct will play out as a "preference" to the OP? Obviously pavilion angle is increasing to offset the lower crown on the K stone.

Also, the 1.23ct had true H&A symmetry. The K has excellent symmetry but may not be true H&A symmetry.

Lastly, while angles are good and I anticipate no issues, the 1.23 stone had an Ideal 0 cut grade. Nothing exists for GIA for cut grade. Using the proportions charts we can reasonably assume the K will likely also be an ideal cut stone.

Again, I think the stone is great and I am NOT trying to invoke fear or concern. I am just curious the thoughts of how these minor details might affect any preferences the OP has grown accustomed to from the original 1.23ct stone.


Capture.PNG
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
I was told that I couldn’t get an IS without paying it first because this diamond is not in NY. o_O
 

skypie

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
503
That is a bit troubling. Taking an IS is not a big deal at all....makes me wonder if they are hiding something.
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
I guess I need to look for another one.

That is a bit troubling. Taking an IS is not a big deal at all....makes me wonder if they are hiding something.
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
5,105
I guess I need to look for another one.
I doubt they are hiding anything. The supplier likely does not have images/can take/will bother to provide images. The stone needs to be paid for by the vendor, since they must not have a "memo" arrangement with this supplier (memo = supplier will send stone to vendor and let them return it only if buyer wants to buy it). Then, the vendor is guaranteed a sale of this stone or another (if you reject it) as you are then stuck choosing from their options/wares. Its a business model. I don't personally care for it, but I understand it.

To @sledge point, the stone you have and the stone you selected could look quite different in performance if you are observant. The angles are such that you would see a "flatter" stone in the K. Going from a I color to a K color is a big jump in color change. If you are not color sensitive, like diamonds to have color or care more for size -- that might not matter.

Can you clarify if you purchased I-color stone and so are reliant of either working with that selling vendor or some trade-in value? If so, which vendor and what are the numbers. Or...do we have a clean slate to find you something?

Did you ever actually have that I color stone to establish a performance/visual baseline? Did you just have it for a few days? Never?

Have you personally seen GIA K color diamonds and are ok with the range of K colors out there? The number of shades that are acceptable with in a letter-band increase as you go down. So, I has fewer shades than M. I can't find the image that shows this, but suffice to say that we start talking about "high" and 'low" at an I color within its range. L is wide, M is wider and so on.

What is your budget and what is the size (mm spread) you want?

The think about color...I deliberately choose a few high clarity options to show to avoid an impact from inclusions on the color and these don't meet your brief. But, they are close in specs and lighting to each other to let you really look at the color.

Here's a pretty "middle K color". Angles are good and its got nice fat arrows. Watch is as it turns. If you had that, are you loving it?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...olor-vvs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4536490

J?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5234241

Heres a pretty I color. How does this look to you?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4967217
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
Thanks! I have an ACA H and an I from JA. The I is my Ering and I wear everyday. I want to trade in the I and get a bigger diamond. The H and the I have are similar in size, I cannot really tell the color difference so I guess I’m not color sensitive. But I’ve never seen a K. From the links you sent below, I can tell J and K is more yellow than the I but the don’t see much difference between the K and the J. So I’m thinking to stick with an I color but I probably cannot get 2 carat in my budget? Here are what I found.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3590470

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...olor-vvs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3824110

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...at-j-color-vvs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-5457221
I doubt they are hiding anything. The supplier likely does not have images/can take/will bother to provide images. The stone needs to be paid for by the vendor, since they must not have a "memo" arrangement with this supplier (memo = supplier will send stone to vendor and let them return it only if buyer wants to buy it). Then, the vendor is guaranteed a sale of this stone or another (if you reject it) as you are then stuck choosing from their options/wares. Its a business model. I don't personally care for it, but I understand it.

To @sledge point, the stone you have and the stone you selected could look quite different in performance if you are observant. The angles are such that you would see a "flatter" stone in the K. Going from a I color to a K color is a big jump in color change. If you are not color sensitive, like diamonds to have color or care more for size -- that might not matter.

Can you clarify if you purchased I-color stone and so are reliant of either working with that selling vendor or some trade-in value? If so, which vendor and what are the numbers. Or...do we have a clean slate to find you something?

Did you ever actually have that I color stone to establish a performance/visual baseline? Did you just have it for a few days? Never?

Have you personally seen GIA K color diamonds and are ok with the range of K colors out there? The number of shades that are acceptable with in a letter-band increase as you go down. So, I has fewer shades than M. I can't find the image that shows this, but suffice to say that we start talking about "high" and 'low" at an I color within its range. L is wide, M is wider and so on.

What is your budget and what is the size (mm spread) you want?

The think about color...I deliberately choose a few high clarity options to show to avoid an impact from inclusions on the color and these don't meet your brief. But, they are close in specs and lighting to each other to let you really look at the color.

Here's a pretty "middle K color". Angles are good and its got nice fat arrows. Watch is as it turns. If you had that, are you loving it?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...olor-vvs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4536490

J?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5234241

Heres a pretty I color. How does this look to you?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4967217
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
5,105
To trade up at JA you have to spend double the cost of the tradein. What does that mean for budget? How much total must you spend?
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
14k is the min. But I’m willing to spend another 1-2k if needed. Thanks!

To trade up at JA you have to spend double the cost of the tradein. What does that mean for budget? How much total must you spend?
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
5,105
If you spend $7k plus at JA, any future upgrade also has to double to $28K. Would it make more sense to upgrade your ACA? Then, you are not stuck doubling in the future. Maybe you can't get to 2 c now, but you could in another upgrade with an incremental sum of money. Just a thought.
 
Last edited:

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
I was told that I couldn’t get an IS without paying it first because this diamond is not in NY. o_O
This is the reason I don't deal with a drop shipper.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
That is a bit troubling. Taking an IS is not a big deal at all....makes me wonder if they are hiding something.
True, If they own the stone. I requested for an IS image on one of their stone and the SA said it would take a week. :wall:
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
5,105
Thanks! I have an ACA H and an I from JA. The I is my Ering and I wear everyday. I want to trade in the I and get a bigger diamond. The H and the I have are similar in size, I cannot really tell the color difference so I guess I’m not color sensitive. But I’ve never seen a K. From the links you sent below, I can tell J and K is more yellow than the I but the don’t see much difference between the K and the J. So I’m thinking to stick with an I color but I probably cannot get 2 carat in my budget? Here are what I found.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3590470

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...olor-vvs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3824110

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...at-j-color-vvs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-5457221

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...at-j-color-vvs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-5457221 VERY PRETTY. CAN THEY PROVIDE AN IS?

Is the high clarity a necessity? If you can be flexible on that, you can likely get over 2 c.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5400409 {if the inclusion from the side won't bother you...its really nice angles}
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5187367

Other options
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...at-i-color-vvs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-5421241

Found this K. 2.66 c!
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5366107
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
Thanks! I thought about this too. The H is from my parents. So it’s just me want to upgrade the Ering. I will take a look at your recommendations below. Thanks again!

If you spend $7k plus at JA, any future upgrade also has to double to $28K. Would it make more sense to upgrade your ACA? Then, you are not stuck doubling in the future. Maybe you can't get to 2 c now, but you could in another upgrade with an incremental sum of money. Just a thought.
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
I requested an IS for the first one. Initially they said they can provide it within 24-48 hours but this morning they said it requires a purchase before I can get an IS.

This is what they said:
Unfortunately we do not have an idealscope image we can readily send you at this moment. This diamond would require purchase in order to obtain the idealscope imagery. From the diamonds angles and percentages I predict the idealscope would come back nothing less than perfect. This diamond shows excellent brilliance and fire that disperses evenly throughout. Beautifully pattern in scintillation makes it very alluring. Definitely a gorgeous choice.

I don’t know what I should do. Should I pay for it first then have them send me the IS before setting it?


 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791

I requested an IS for the first one. Initially they said they can provide it within 24-48 hours but this morning they said it requires a purchase before I can get an IS.

This is what they said:
Unfortunately we do not have an idealscope image we can readily send you at this moment. This diamond would require purchase in order to obtain the idealscope imagery. From the diamonds angles and percentages I predict the idealscope would come back nothing less than perfect. This diamond shows excellent brilliance and fire that disperses evenly throughout. Beautifully pattern in scintillation makes it very alluring. Definitely a gorgeous choice.

I don’t know what I should do. Should I pay for it first then have them send me the IS before setting it?

Assuming the above 2.04 J VVS2 is the one you are referring to you, I would go ahead and purchase and then have them send you the image. If for any reason it's not what you expected, you can reject and find a different stone.

Those angles are gorgeous. I can't imagine it disappointing.
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
5,105
Assuming the above 2.04 J VVS2 is the one you are referring to you, I would go ahead and purchase and then have them send you the image. If for any reason it's not what you expected, you can reject and find a different stone.

Those angles are gorgeous. I can't imagine it disappointing.
That's what I'd personally do, as well.
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
Thank you both! @sledge @rockysalamander

I will place an order then. One more question - do I need to worry about the medium blue fluorescence?
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
Thank you both! @sledge @rockysalamander

I will place an order then. One more question - do I need to worry about the medium blue fluorescence?

You're welcome!

And no. The video doesn't show any milky or hazy appearance so you should be good. But as insurance you could ask them to put their eyes on it and verify.

FYI when well cut and on lower colors, fluor is a positive in that it will help whiten the J a little. Downside is when in direct UV lighting the fluor atoms get excited and turn a bluish color. Not really an issue IMO. The stone I bought my girl has medium blue fluor.
 

doberman

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
2,417
The only thing you can do is order it and examine it to see if it's to your liking. A K is going to have a slight tint, the fluorescence *may* limit that a bit.
 

May2013

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
43
Thank you!

You're welcome!

And no. The video doesn't show any milky or hazy appearance so you should be good. But as insurance you could ask them to put their eyes on it and verify.

FYI when well cut and on lower colors, fluor is a positive in that it will help whiten the J a little. Downside is when in direct UV lighting the fluor atoms get excited and turn a bluish color. Not really an issue IMO. The stone I bought my girl has medium blue fluor.
 
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