Is this natural ruby or composite one?

[cyang]

Hi,

I recently purchased a ruby diamond pendant in 14k white gold. 14 diamonds added up to 1.50 carat (I1 -I2, < I color). The ruby is about 6.5 carat. I paid around $1950 for it.

I recently heard about composite/glass filled ruby. I start to suspect mine as it has a lot of line (can't tell from surface or inside) and it has some bubbles inside. At the time I thought they are threads and bubble inclusions. However, hearing that glass filled ruby typically has those cracks and bubbles. I get really confused and concerned.

Posted some pictures and let me know what you think. I look forward to your help.


clee

 

[cyang]

One more photo

 

[Pandora II]

I'm afraid it looks very, very suspicious to me - a new ruby shouldn't be scratched to pieces like that on the facet faces... corundum is HARD. The bubbles also look like those in glass. There also look to be a lot of surface reaching fractures in the lower photographs.

Also a 6.5ct ruby in that colour would cost a LOT more than you paid. The glass-filled ones are around $10/carat wholesale.

You need to take it to be properly checked out but I would bet a large amount of money that is is lead-glass filled. Unfortunately the vast majority of jewellers are not gemmologists and are still not aware of these stones or the problems associated with them.

When you bought the piece what was the info on treatments you were given? There is an issue about whether these stones should be classed as manufacturered or whether they are natural but enhanced so if you were sold a 'natural' ruby you may not have any comeback at the moment.

Disclaimer- I'm am judging purely on the basis of your photographs - which is very different from having the stone in hand. I strongly suggest that you take the piece to be examined.

 

[movie zombie]

everything Pandora said.

most in jewelry sales don't know that much re color gem stones.
you will definitely need a gemologist to make the determination.

 

[Barrett]

Shoot...I hate when Pandora swoops in and answers everything for us
What she said!

 

[Pandora II]

Shoot...I hate when Pandora swoops in and answers everything for us
What she said!

But I've left you to explain the latest debate on what these stones should be classed as - as I can't be bothered to go and look it all up and write a synopsis right now...

 

[stargurl78]

I can't really help to answer your question but can I ask where you purchased the pendant? I love the setting.

 

[slksapphire]

i am a total colored stone novice. but 1 thing i've learned pretty quickly is that if it's too good to be true, it probably is. i did a quick search of a few ps preferred vendor websites and turned up heated rubies under 1 ct (stone only) that were priced at $1,600 and above.

so, the question comes down to how much MORE money do you want to spend on this piece? your best option would probably be to take it to a local appraiser who really understands colored gemstones (this is harder to find than it should be!) where do you live?

another option would be to send it to agl, probably for the gembrief. you should find out what treatments they will test for in the basic package.

i don't think there's any way that anyone here can give you an answer based on your photographs.

do you have any kind of certificate for your piece?

good luck!

 

[Pandora II]

I am so sure that it's glass-filled I wouldn't spend more money on it unless it was in the interests of obtaining a refund - but you will need to check the situation as to whether they would still class the stone as natural.

 

[cyang]

Thanks for all your replies.

I loved the setting and therefore purchased it. The setting (if they are really natural diamond, plus the gold) will cost around $1200 at most, right? If the ruby is manufactured (glass filled), it costs less than $200 (maybe much less), fair, right? I am paying quite a lot more than it actually worth.

I got the piece from ross simons. It does not come with any certificate or any treatment disclosure. Since I see a lot of good review for ross simons, therefore, I didn't think too much.

I know it looks quite like a glass filled ruby. Can I double check a few things?

1) those lines are not on the surface. I used my finger to feel it but can't feel any scratch. Therefore, I assumed those to be thread in natural ruby. Is the judgement correct? Is it even feelable if it is glassed filled lines/marks?

2) Can natural ruby have those bubbles (in large amount) and lines?

I don't want to spend more money on the piece as getting it examed by a gemologist will cost another 100 bucks. It is still retunable at this point (another 30 days). I also requested them to disclose the treatment on the ruby. I will get the disclosure in a few weeks. Hopefully it is no later than my return period due.

If I don't understand Pandora incorrectly, are you saying even if they disclose the treatment, they might still classify it as natural ruby even it is glass filled? It just depends on how people call it?

It sounds like I should return the piece given all these suspect and treatment disclosure itself might be tricky. Is that right?

Thanks, appreaciate your help.



clee

 

[Pandora II]

Thanks for all your replies.

I loved the setting and therefore purchased it. The setting (if they are really natural diamond, plus the gold) will cost around $1200 at most, right? If the ruby is manufactured (glass filled), it costs less than $200 (maybe much less), fair, right? I am paying quite a lot more than it actually worth.

Sounds expensive given the colour and quality of the diamonds but gold prices are high and depends how many grams the piece weighs.

I got the piece from ross simons. It does not come with any certificate or any treatment disclosure. Since I see a lot of good review for ross simons, therefore, I didn't think too much.

Even Macy's are/were selling lead-glass filled rubies - without disclosure I understand.

I know it looks quite like a glass filled ruby. Can I double check a few things?

1) those lines are not on the surface. I used my finger to feel it but can't feel any scratch. Therefore, I assumed those to be thread in natural ruby. Is the judgement correct? Is it even feelable if it is glassed filled lines/marks?

The glass fills all the fissure and fractures so you may not feel anything with your finger, the giveaways are the changes in lustre when looking at the facet faces in reflected light and the presence of multiple fissures.

2) Can natural ruby have those bubbles (in large amount) and lines?

I've never seen them in a natural untreated ruby, but have seen them almost invariably in lead-glass filled rubies. You may see multiple fissures in a ruby but it will then be a very cheap material not of gem quality

I don't want to spend more money on the piece as getting it examed by a gemologist will cost another 100 bucks. It is still retunable at this point (another 30 days). I also requested them to disclose the treatment on the ruby. I will get the disclosure in a few weeks. Hopefully it is no later than my return period due.

I would return it. For a start if you were to ever to need a repair, you could end up with all sorts of issues - even lemon juice will etch these stones and a jeweller's torch will melt the glass.

If I don't understand Pandora incorrectly, are you saying even if they disclose the treatment, they might still classify it as natural ruby even it is glass filled? It just depends on how people call it?

It's a big debate - what quantity of glass does a stone need to be to not be a natural ruby? 5%? 20%? 70%? The jury is still out on this. After all, nearly all emeralds are oiled and it's such a common treatment that disclosure is not even required. Many are also filled with resins such as opticon and again as long as no dye is involved it doesn't necessarily need to be disclosed - although I would be a little hmmm about a vendor who didn't. So, yes a ruby could still be described as natural while containing a significant percentage of glass.

It sounds like I should return the piece given all these suspect and treatment disclosure itself might be tricky. Is that right?

Personally, I would return the piece, then use the money to source a similar setting from someone like LOGR or others used by PSers. Then if you want a big red stone, look for a Beryllium diffused ruby or sapphire. They are very reasonably priced, look great and don't have any of the stability issues of the glass filled stones. Obviously this won't be a valuable piece of jewellery in terms of possible future resale, but for a good ruby of that colour of 6.5cts you are talking $$ high five if not six figures, so Be diffused will give you the look without the issues - synthetic is another route but we can't discuss that here.

Thanks, appreaciate your help.

pleasure

clee

 

[Pandora II]

You might find this interesting:

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/lead-glass-ruby-nightmare-keeps-giving

 

[anythingorange]

Thanks for all your replies.

I loved the setting and therefore purchased it. The setting (if they are really natural diamond, plus the gold) will cost around $1200 at most, right? If the ruby is manufactured (glass filled), it costs less than $200 (maybe much less), fair, right? I am paying quite a lot more than it actually worth.

I got the piece from ross simons. It does not come with any certificate or any treatment disclosure. Since I see a lot of good review for ross simons, therefore, I didn't think too much.

I know it looks quite like a glass filled ruby. Can I double check a few things?

1) those lines are not on the surface. I used my finger to feel it but can't feel any scratch. Therefore, I assumed those to be thread in natural ruby. Is the judgement correct? Is it even feelable if it is glassed filled lines/marks?

2) Can natural ruby have those bubbles (in large amount) and lines?

I don't want to spend more money on the piece as getting it examed by a gemologist will cost another 100 bucks. It is still retunable at this point (another 30 days). I also requested them to disclose the treatment on the ruby. I will get the disclosure in a few weeks. Hopefully it is no later than my return period due.

If I don't understand Pandora incorrectly, are you saying even if they disclose the treatment, they might still classify it as natural ruby even it is glass filled? It just depends on how people call it?

It sounds like I should return the piece given all these suspect and treatment disclosure itself might be tricky. Is that right?

Thanks, appreaciate your help.



clee

Call me a pessimist, but I think it might take them 31 days to disclose the treatment. I think Pandora's suggestion to return it and start fresh is great advice.

 

[briolette]

I agree. Just return it while you can. The setting is very beautiful but not so unique that couldn't find one in a similar style from a reputable jeweler.

 

[movie zombie]

another vote for returning it.

but do realize that a 1 carat unheated, unfilled, untreated in any way ruby is going to be a lot more expensive.

 

[minousbijoux]

Good for you for coming here and asking about your pendant. I'm another vote for returning it and relieved that you asked before time ran out. I hate that folks can get away with calling something like that a ruby. I would love to have a ruby, but it will be a while before I can afford a high quality untreated one and before I'm comfortable to purchase knowing all the treatments that exist...

 

[chrono]

Pandora has explained everything so well and clearly that I have nothing more to really add. A glass filled ruby is still a ruby although it is up to debate how much of the stone is glass and how little of it is ruby. I have not seen an unfilled ruby look like that and often, one cannot feel the surface lines. At this point, you know that you have overpaid quite a bit and personally, I would return the ring while within the return period. The setting isn't anything special and the diamonds don't sound particularly good (I1/I2)

 

[beau-wy]

I have lead glass-filled rubies that are smaller, but that exact color and appearance. I paid $3/ct for them, my sole purpose being to be able to show a prospective buyer how pretty they are - as a caution against getting ripped off. I have a 2+ct oval that looks just like that one, down to the lovely velvety ruby red and the bubbles and lines. I paid $6.83 for it within the last few months, from an honest Thai seller who properly disclosed the treatment. Run, don't walk, back to that store for a return and refund. Glad you are still within that window.

 

[cyang]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestion, especially pandora give very thorough analysis.

I am glad that I come here and learned a lot. I will for sure return the item for refund.

In the future when I consider buying a ruby again, I will always asking for treatment disclosure first and for sure avoid those composite ones. What about heat treatment? Is heat treatment quite common for ruby? how much cheaper will a heated ruby compared to a unheated one given all other condition is the same? Let us use 1ct, 2ct, and 3ct as examples.

 

[Quantz Studios]

Heating in any corundum is fairly common. How much more is an unheated vs. heated stone? It's hard to really pinpoint it. Based on color, clarity, size and origin, the differences could be anywhere from minor to very large. Any natural (heated or not) ruby of good quality is going to run you a pretty hefty price, especially at 2ct and 3ct. and beyond.

Advice for buying any stone lately (not just those commonly treated)... If treatments are not clearly described in the open, definitely ask. Definitely! I am weary of anyone whom I have to inquire about treatments to. But I am paranoid to begin with, so...


I'd go with everyone's advice and return the piece, without question. If your heart is set on red, go with the advice on here to seek out a quality Be-treated stone. As I've heard though, even prices for those are on the rise. Regardless, I'd much rather have a quality Be stone than a GF stone, for sure, if my budget will not allow me to go natural. You can always stay more budget-friendly and seek out quality reds in other species of stone as well.

Hope this helps. Best of luck to you.

 

[Pandora II]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestion, especially pandora give very thorough analysis.

I am glad that I come here and learned a lot. I will for sure return the item for refund.

In the future when I consider buying a ruby again, I will always asking for treatment disclosure first and for sure avoid those composite ones. What about heat treatment? Is heat treatment quite common for ruby? how much cheaper will a heated ruby compared to a unheated one given all other condition is the same? Let us use 1ct, 2ct, and 3ct as examples.

Heated (as in low heat) is extremely common for ruby - and sapphire - the VAST majority perhaps 90%+ of rubies will have been heat-treated.

While prices are pretty stratospheric for fine unheated rubies (they make white diamonds of the same size look like pocket change - you can easily spend $10k for a 1ct stones), fine heated stones don't run cheap either, you will still be talking $thousands per carat for a nice stone and a 3ct heated stone will be over $10k unless you get very lucky or there is something wrong with it.

Challenge... can anyone find a 3ct heated ruby that looks like most people imagine a ruby should look - ie great red colour and good clarity (obviously good cut) that is under $10k, I've done a quick look and haven't found one.

So, while heated will be significantly cheaper - ie you might pay $10k for a heated 3ct stone, you could pay $150k for the same stone unheated. Either way, nice rubies are hence why I advise people to look at Be treated stones or synthetics if they just want the look. The other option is to win the lottery, save for a lifetime or marry Richard Burton...

Even with other species, you will need a big budget to get a 6.5ct red spinel especially these days. Red spessartite is a possibility but it won't look like a ruby. The other garnets in large sizes will almost certainly look too dark to use as a sub.

 

[cyang]

Thanks Pandora and Stonebender. Marrying Richard Burton was quite hilarious. I didn't know ruby can be more expensive than diamond. I will stop craving ruby for a while then.

 

[distracts]

or marry Richard Burton...

But Pandora, he died before I was even born!

 

[Pandora II]

Thanks Pandora and Stonebender. Marrying Richard Burton was quite hilarious. I didn't know ruby can be more expensive than diamond. I will stop craving ruby for a while then.

It is a common misconception that diamonds are a) rare and b) the most expensive stones. Excepting natural fancy coloured diamonds neither is true.

It always makes me laugh a little when people come here saying they'd like a nice sapphire or ruby until they can afford to upgrade to a diamond (and they don't mean 6cts). A 3ct top quality true Kashmir sapphire will cost you around the $100k mark easily. A superb emerald will also cost a king's ransom.

Obviously there are cheap options in coloured stones - just as there are in diamonds, but the more you see the good stuff the more you won't settle. Hence I have no ruby!

 

[Pandora II]

or marry Richard Burton...

But Pandora, he died before I was even born!

Ah well, bank robbery it must be...