Is this an OEC or transitional?

[Fire and Ice]

Chrono, surfgirl, anyone?

I know this is not a great pic but it's the best one I have that shows some of the facets while I was trying it on. It sparkled SO much and had such great light return!



The jeweler said it was an OEC but after seeing some transitional cuts it makes me wonder.

 

[Fire and Ice]

And here is a pic that shows the crown.

The table seems smaller like an OEC. It would help so much if I had all the stats but the ring is long gone and has been returned to the antique broker.

 

[Upgradable]

Gorgeous!! I'm going to call it a european cut, but a later variety than some we see. The table is too small for it to truly be transitional.

 

[yssie]

I found this quote from Richard Sherwood in 2003:

1860-1900 Old Mine Cuts (cushion shaped outline)
1900-1915 Old European Cuts (round outlines)
1920-1935 European Cuts (more streamlined)
1940-1950 Transitional Cut (transitioning from European
to Round Brilliant Cut)
1950-2003 Round Brilliant Cut

These dates are not absolutes, but generalities.

I have only heard the term transitional cut used referring to the transition from Euro to RBC. I don't think it's correctly used for the period of OEC transitioning to Euro Cut.

You've probably either got an Old European Cut or European Cut. From your description, it sounds like a European Cut, which would be right for a 1920-1925 dating.

Old European Cut characteristics- High crown, small table, short star facets, very large to extremely large culet, very large lower girdle facets, symmetry poor to good.

European Cut characteristics- Lower crown, larger table, larger star facets, medium to large culet, smaller (but larger than modern RBC) lower girdle facets, symmetry usually better (fair to very good).

If you can find out the proportions for your stone, we can tell you what era it falls in. A close up picture using a magnifier or loupe might do the trick as well.

From this thread viewtopic.php?t=6444


I wonder if someone - Uppy, come back! - can comment? It's from an old thread, are these still commonly accepted estimates?

 

[Upgradable]

Yssie, as I understand it, these are still the technical differentiations. Lay usage is a little more lax. You will very seldom see people separating old european from european cut, and sometimes the term "european" by itself brings to mind modern stones graded by EGL. But when looking at this stone I agree it would meet the criteria of being a european cut stone.

BTW- this is my favorite style of diamond cut!!!!!

 

[yssie]

Ah, good to know

Thanks

 

[Al Gilbertson]

Every now and then, it seems appropriate to comment on these discussions about older styles of cutting. Transitional cut is a term that should be avoided as it has varying definitions (it might be interesting for various Pricescopers to give their definitions). This diamond, with a table just nearly 60%, could have been cut after the mid 1890’s in Europe (up until 1930’s), as Europe sought to cut the new American style for the American market (The American style had a smaller table but Europeans were adamanat about larger tables during that time). By 1900, this style with smaller tables was called American Cut, Scientific Cut and Ideal Cut. The original style called for tables between 40 and 50%. Angles for the pav ranged from 39 to 42 (usually 40 to 41, but cutters didn’t have close tolerances in cutting) and crowns got sloppier, depending upon the cutting house, but 34-37 was quite typical. The larger star facets and faceted girdle indicate that this stone was probably re-polished or repaired. If the larger stars are original, this was cut much later (1930’s). Transitional cut (came into usage in the 1980’s) is used by some to lump these things together and is hardly definitive for the various modifications taking place. This stone most likely was cut after 1930 and has been repaired. These should have knife-edged girdles which are usually much damaged. Specific measurements of the loose stone would help, but it’s always easy to call it a transitional cut and not worry with the details.

 

[Karl_K]

Hi Al nice to see you posting.

Al is one of and likely the top expert on this subject today.
His book is must have for those that love these older diamonds.
A review is here:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/american_cut_first_100_years_al_gilbertson_gg

 

[quaddio]

This thread is my favorite describing Transitional Cuts. [url=https://www.pricescope.com/co...nity/threads/what-is-transitional-cut.105513/[/URL][/url]

 

[iluvdiamonds2]

Check out my ring it's a tranny
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-setting-would-you-choose-for-this-stone.180410/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-setting-would-you-choose-for-this-stone.180410/[/URL]

 

[Gypsy]

I think it's a European Cut but not an old Euro. Just before transitionals. It's absolutely gorgeous though.