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Is this a good one? (confused about girdle, crown, and pavilion)

sylviawhx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
12
I was really upset today because a diamond I was holding on a website was sold!! I was really disappointed when they told me this...

But after hard working on search tonight I found this one! I attached a pic here. Please help me check if this is a good one:

table: 57
girdle: slightly thick (4%)
crown angle: 32.5
pavilion: 41.20
HCA 1.5
AGS cut grade: 0
faint

I was told that a crown angle should be in 33-35% but this one is 32.5. However I checked HCA to be 1.5, and it falls into 0 area in AGS. So i'm kind of confused..

Also is there website can search diamond seller based on GIA? I searched the GIA on pricescope but it can not find any seller for this diamond.. Just trying to find the best price.

Thank you in advance! Really appreciate:)
 

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Last edited:

sylviawhx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
12
Here's another potential one (but is 0.1 ct less than the above one)

table: 57
girdle: M-STK (4%)
crown angle: 34
pavilion: 41
HCA 1.2
AGS cut grade 0
strong blue
 

jp201845

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
259
Keep in these ranges for ideal cut diamonds

Table 54 - 57
Crown Angle 34 - 35
( Sometimes 35.5 may work paired with 40.6 Pavillion )
Pavillion Angle 40.6 - 40.8
Lower Girdle Facets 75 - 80( If you prefer big bold flashes keep to 75 - 77 )
 

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
2,265
Are these AGS0 stones?
 

headlight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,500
Where the hca gives an idea of where a stone may be graded, that doesn’t make it an AGS0... only a diamond with an AGG0 cut grade is an AGS0.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,730
Point blank, the HCA is an elimination tool. It doesn't guarantee a grade of any sort. All it is doing is looking at the proportions of the diamond to see if they could potentially play nicely together.

I personally would NOT buy the 32.5/41.2 combo. In theory, the angles offset each other and may work but when you factor in averaging and rounding the likelihood that 41.2 stays there is about zero. And things start going wonky at a 41.2+ pavilion.

I may consider the 34/41 combo. But before committing to that stone I'd want to see an ASET or idealscope image to confirm there is no leakage, etc. This combo can be very beautiful; however, the likelihood of the 41 pavilion working and not creeping to 41.2+ is pretty slim. Hence the reason I'd want to see the ASET or IS image.

A few final thoughts:

1. You've indicated the 34/41 combo has strong blue fluorescence (SBF). Depending on the color of stone you are looking at, this may or may not be desirable. For instance, in higher colored stones it'd be less desirable but in lower colored stones some people actually prefer it. I actually bought my wife a BGD H VS2 w/ MBF.

While fluor is usually a non-issue, you do need to double check and make sure it doesn't have any negative effects (milky, cloudy, etc).

2. You have indicated these are AGS0 stones. Do they actually have an AGS certificate with that rating, or are you going by the chart that HCA gives that predicts what the GIA and AGS ratings would be? There is a big difference between the two.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,730
Also on girdle, you want to stay within the thin to slightly thick range. In a perfect world, it'd be medium. This is important because when diamonds are cut for weight retention (profit $) vs beauty then a fat girdle is one way it can be done.
 

sylviawhx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
12
Keep in these ranges for ideal cut diamonds

Table 54 - 57
Crown Angle 34 - 35
( Sometimes 35.5 may work paired with 40.6 Pavillion )
Pavillion Angle 40.6 - 40.8
Lower Girdle Facets 75 - 80( If you prefer big bold flashes keep to 75 - 77 )
Thank you so much for the numbers. This is very helpful! Do you have a recommendation for height?
 

sylviawhx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
12
Where the hca gives an idea of where a stone may be graded, that doesn’t make it an AGS0... only a diamond with an AGG0 cut grade is an AGS0.
Hey, sorry to be confused! Both stones are not graded by AGS. I just tested them on pricescope HCA.
 

jp201845

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
259
Thank you so much for the numbers. This is very helpful! Do you have a recommendation for height?
Sorry I forgot to add depth

60 - 62.3

If you stay in these ideal ranges you will be ok then for further evaluation you will need advanced imaging like Aset/Idealscope
 

sylviawhx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
12
Point blank, the HCA is an elimination tool. It doesn't guarantee a grade of any sort. All it is doing is looking at the proportions of the diamond to see if they could potentially play nicely together.

I personally would NOT buy the 32.5/41.2 combo. In theory, the angles offset each other and may work but when you factor in averaging and rounding the likelihood that 41.2 stays there is about zero. And things start going wonky at a 41.2+ pavilion.

I may consider the 34/41 combo. But before committing to that stone I'd want to see an ASET or idealscope image to confirm there is no leakage, etc. This combo can be very beautiful; however, the likelihood of the 41 pavilion working and not creeping to 41.2+ is pretty slim. Hence the reason I'd want to see the ASET or IS image.

A few final thoughts:

1. You've indicated the 34/41 combo has strong blue fluorescence (SBF). Depending on the color of stone you are looking at, this may or may not be desirable. For instance, in higher colored stones it'd be less desirable but in lower colored stones some people actually prefer it. I actually bought my wife a BGD H VS2 w/ MBF.

While fluor is usually a non-issue, you do need to double check and make sure it doesn't have any negative effects (milky, cloudy, etc).

2. You have indicated these are AGS0 stones. Do they actually have an AGS certificate with that rating, or are you going by the chart that HCA gives that predicts what the GIA and AGS ratings would be? There is a big difference between the two.
Hi sledge,
Thank you so much for your explanation. Both stones are F So the Florence of medium blue is not good for an F color right? Let me find the pic and attach later.
I think I will also keep searching using the range suggested by jp201845.
BTW, I always try to look for diamond with larger diameter than its average. Such as 1.3ct average diameter is 6.98, but I always prefer one with 7.02 or above when it’s 1’3ct. Since it will look larger.
Is that a good idea? Or that is why the cut is not ideal?

you so much!
 

sylviawhx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
12
Sorry I forgot to add depth

60 - 62.3

If you stay in these ideal ranges you will be ok then for further evaluation you will need advanced imaging like Aset/Idealscope
Thank you jp201845! I would love to hear your suggestion on the diameter measurement:
I always try to look for diamond with larger diameter than its average. Such as 1.3ct average diameter is 6.98, but I always prefer one with 7.02 or above when it’s 1’3ct. Since it will look larger.
Is that a good idea? Or that is why the cut is not ideal?
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,730
There's not anything wrong with wanting a little larger spread for the carat weight than normal, but keep in mind that will also change the proportions of the diamond.

In other words, you will tend to keep finding stones with larger tables and shallow crown angles.

Personally I'd rather have a stone with big fire over the very minimal size gains you are talking. FWIW, it takes about 0.20mm difference for our eyes to see a visual difference in size when comparing two stones side by side. You are talking a 0.05mm or less with the dimensions you mentioned earlier. While the stone is "technically" bigger, it's not a difference your eyes can even detect.

On the flip side, getting a stone with ideal proportions that is designed for maximum fire is likely something your eyes will see and appreciate.

We all have different preferences, but if I were shopping I'd be looking for a 54-56 table and around a 34.5/40.8 or 35/40.6 combo with 75 LGF's. On stones with AGS certs, you get more precise than with GIA so there is some flexibility there.

The advantages are the smaller the table, the larger the upper girdle facets which is where rainbow light is produced. Steeper crowns tend to provide more crown height and also lend to more fire. Lastly, the numerically smaller LGF value the fatter the arrow and the bigger bolder flashes it will produce.

As far as the fluorescence goes, I might consider medium on an F stone, but for me that's probably my max on that high of a color. The stone you found actually had strong fluor not medium. I personally wouldn't want strong or very strong on F+ colored stones. That's just my preference, but I think many would generally agree with that sentiment.
 

Snowdrop13

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,631
If you let us know your budget and color /clarity requirements we can help you pinpoint a stone. Here’s a superideal, AGS 0 F color as a reference point for pricing,


but you can use the diamond search tool above to sift through lots of vendors other stones. There seem to be plenty in the F VS category around the size (1.3ct) that you mention starting from around $9k.
 

sylviawhx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
12
If you let us know your budget and color /clarity requirements we can help you pinpoint a stone. Here’s a superideal, AGS 0 F color as a reference point for pricing,


but you can use the diamond search tool above to sift through lots of vendors other stones. There seem to be plenty in the F VS category around the size (1.3ct) that you mention starting from around $9k.
Hi Snowdrop, thank you for your reply! I'm looking for a diamond around 1.3ct (1.25~1.35 works), budget below 14k. Previously I would like one with E/F and VVS1/VVS2, but didn't pay attention to the cut. Right now I'm comfortable to downgrade color/clarity to get an ideal cut!

Also the stone you mentioned looks great! But the table is 57.5, is that I should worry about since the ideal is 54~56? And the crystal inside?

Thank you!!
 

sylviawhx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
12
There's not anything wrong with wanting a little larger spread for the carat weight than normal, but keep in mind that will also change the proportions of the diamond.

In other words, you will tend to keep finding stones with larger tables and shallow crown angles.

Personally I'd rather have a stone with big fire over the very minimal size gains you are talking. FWIW, it takes about 0.20mm difference for our eyes to see a visual difference in size when comparing two stones side by side. You are talking a 0.05mm or less with the dimensions you mentioned earlier. While the stone is "technically" bigger, it's not a difference your eyes can even detect.

On the flip side, getting a stone with ideal proportions that is designed for maximum fire is likely something your eyes will see and appreciate.

We all have different preferences, but if I were shopping I'd be looking for a 54-56 table and around a 34.5/40.8 or 35/40.6 combo with 75 LGF's. On stones with AGS certs, you get more precise than with GIA so there is some flexibility there.

The advantages are the smaller the table, the larger the upper girdle facets which is where rainbow light is produced. Steeper crowns tend to provide more crown height and also lend to more fire. Lastly, the numerically smaller LGF value the fatter the arrow and the bigger bolder flashes it will produce.

As far as the fluorescence goes, I might consider medium on an F stone, but for me that's probably my max on that high of a color. The stone you found actually had strong fluor not medium. I personally wouldn't want strong or very strong on F+ colored stones. That's just my preference, but I think many would generally agree with that sentiment.
Hey sledge, thank you so much for your reply. It makes a lot of sense:) People cannot tell small difference in size but can surely tell brightness! I should reconsider my strategy lol.
Seems there's a looong way to go to find an ideal stone. If you happened to find an ideal one around 1.3ct, let me know:)
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,069
DF already posted a good 1.3 ct F VS2 from Whiteflash. I am not seeing much else. I'd certainly go for top cut quality with your budget. For $15.5k, you can get to 1.40 F VS1 which would be good if there's any flexibility in the budget.


(Nothing wrong at all with a 57 table, but I'd go with a superideal cut if looking at AGS stones.)
 

sylviawhx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
12
DF already posted a good 1.3 ct F VS2 from Whiteflash. I am not seeing much else. I'd certainly go for top cut quality with your budget. For $15.5k, you can get to 1.40 F VS1 which would be good if there's any flexibility in the budget.


(Nothing wrong at all with a 57 table, but I'd go with a superideal cut if looking at AGS stones.)
Thank you diamond seeker! The stone has sold so fast! I’ll keep looking. Thank you for your recommendation:)
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,069
Oh my! I am sorry it was sold! If there's a great stone that you are strongly considering, maybe put it on hold for 24 hours because there are fewer stones with the specs you are wanting, so they can go fast!
 
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