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Is this a good diamond for me?

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jimtheideaman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
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Hello all, this is my first post. I've been reading a lot here and just wanted a second opinion. My girlfriend/future fiance really wants a larger ring than I can afford which is odd because she's usually into saving money, etc... she's pretty frugal and I wouldn't consider her high maintenance. Anyway, I know she would really like a 1 ct. ring but after looking a little bit with me at some local jewelry stores, it's probably not going to happen. Anyway, I've been shopping for an engagement ring online and I found the following diamond for just over $2,000:

0.96 Carat
Very Good Cut
J Color
SI1 Clarity
62.50% Depth
60.00% Table
Faint Flourescence

...but it's EGL rated. I realize that GIA and AGS are better and so I think to myself ok, if they rated this diamond maybe everything would be rated a notch down??? I don't know that I'd buy a K color. Won't that look yellow? I don't know... but if you were on a budget, would you go with something like this or something that's maybe a 0.80 to 0.85 Carat but graded by GIA?
 
hey jimtheideaman
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welcome to ps!

you''ve come to the right place
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there are many people here who are willing to help and educate those looking for the perfect diamond.
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first of all....you can do much, much better. i can guarantee that your gf would *love* a well cut diamond of smaller carat weight that faces up the same size as the ''very good'' cut you are considering. promise! don''t focus on carat weight. focus on getting a great cut with good spread (diameter).

the best way to start, is by searching diamond listings using the ''pricescope your diamond'' tool at the top of this page. make sure you select ''cut quality search'' you can expand your criteria after the initial search to include a wider range of color/clarity to increase your options. i would start looking in the .70-.99 f-j vs1-si2 that will give you many options.

best of luck!
 
"you can do much, much better"

In what specific way? Should I only consider Ideal Cut or do I need to look at the measurements and still consider Very Good cuts? Also, should I eliminate the EGL rated diaomnds?

By the way, the above mentioned diammond measures 6.23x6.19x3.88
 
I feel more confident sticking with GIA stones. I know their grading is strict so I can compare stones and know that they are really the grades they state. What I mean is that a GIA G color will be whiter than a GIA J if cut and flour are equal. So I can decide what I like and then play with color, clarity and size to get the price down into my range.

Face up size refers to how many mm a stone is. So a .96 could be 6.2 mm and a .90 could be 6.4mm depending on the cut. The stone that weighs less would look bigger. During my search I focused on mm because weight doesn''t always mean a bigger looking stone. Your girlfriend probably wants a bigger looking stone rather than one that faces up small but actually weighs more.
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I spent hours and hours reading everything on PS and some of the tutorials before I was successful in my search. It takes time to adjust diamond specs to find a diamond with great cut that fits into one''s budget. SO what is your budget???? There are many here at PS that would love to help you search.
 
"SO what is your budget???? There are many here at PS that would love to help you search."

I''d like to keep the price of the diamond no more than say $2,250. Really I''m looking for something in the $1,750 to $2,250 range for the diamond, not including the setting/band. I want the biggest looking diamond I can afford that doesn''t look yellow or have obvious inclusions, lack of sparkle, or look too disproportionate.
 
2005, PS price http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?b=16&a=12&cid=131&item=895804
http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD00167502#grading_report
http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD00430930#grading_report

The more EGL-oriented vendors are USA Certed, and Engagement Rings Direct, and if I were buying an EGL stone, I'd probably buy from them. But I never would buy an EGL stone...
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While I don't usually suggest a stone that is overbudget, there is this tempting Infinity: http://www.diamondexpert.com/diamonds/dbs.cgi?sf=detd.setup.cgi&active=active&stock=RB50108021&submit_search=1
 
I would recommend sticking to GIA and AGS stones as well.

OK, here are some ideas for you:

0.93 F I1 @$2400 scored 1.5 on HCA average diameter 6.25mm, GIA report

0.90 J SI2 @$2600 - 3.2 on the HCA average diameter 6.5mm, graded by Good Old Gold

0.81 I SI2 @$2400 - 0.6 on HCA average diameter 6.14, AGS report

0.82 J SI2 @$2100 - 1.3 on the HCA average diameter 6.18, AGS report


You're not going to get to one carat with your budget without seriously sacrificing quality (here are some examples if you don't believe me: shallow 1 carat EGL rated L VS1 with gigantic table; 1.06 IGI rated O color VVS2 clarity, etc.). So I think your idea of looking at stones from 0.80 to 0.99 carats is a good one.

You'll notice that most of the stones I listed have lower depths. If your goal is to get as big a look as possible, I would look at stones with depths under 60. Then you can plug the numbers into the cut advisor as I have done. Scores of 0 to 2 are excellent.

I recommend BlueNile.com and Mondera.com for your search. You're not going to find the super-ideals that we normally recommend here in your budget without dropping to about 3/4 carat or less (example: 0.75 H SI2 H&A graded by AGS average diameter 5.85mm), so most of the vendors we usually hit won't have what you're looking for. BlueNile and Mondera are good because they have a huge selection with the certs linked to the stones, so then you can plug the numbers into the HCA to see if it might be a good looking stone.
 
the stone you linked has a table that is too big, and you the J color might actually be a K. A K color can be fine, but you want to know what youare getting. Jule and pheonix girl have linked some potentially very beautiful stones. A well-cut stone will look much more beautiful than a slightly larger poorly cut stone.

Another option, how about going down to a K?? A well-cut K can still face-up pretty white, showing a little warmth from the side, and this is what you might have ended up with anyways with the EGL J.

I''ll see if I can dig up any pretty K options.
 
Gosh, thanks for all the replies. I was searching and found this one http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-20532.htm

Tell me what you think and I''m going to start looking at the ones that were mentioned above.
 
Need to ask if eye-clean. Or eye-cleanish. Visible inclusions do not bother me, so I would be fine with eye-cleanish.
 
Date: 10/11/2006 6:21:24 PM
Author: jimtheideaman
Gosh, thanks for all the replies. I was searching and found this one http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-20532.htm


Tell me what you think and I'm going to start looking at the ones that were mentioned above.
Click to expand...

I'm a sucker for higher quality and would prefer the smaller stone you found here over the larger ones mentioned above.

I think for _very_ high cut quality in your budget you aren't going to find much bigger than .75 carat or so.
 
Jim, I like the diamond you just posted. As mentioned above ask if it''s eye-clean, they will be honest with you. Also, if you order from a pricescope vendor, be sure to ask for the pricescope discount. It''s not huge, but it helps at about 5% with the bankwire price.
 
If budget is a big issue, EGL graded diamonds can be an option, you would need a good independant appraisal to verify that the diamond checks out. Some here have EGL graded diamonds, myself included, and although it is usual to shoot for GIA and AGS graded, EGL have their place if budget is important. EGL USA are said to be the most accurately graded. I am just adding if you are finding it difficult to get what you want, an EGL graded might be an option.
 
I called on the diamond I posted a link to above from White Flash and asked if it was eye clean (thanks to the advice above) and talked to Vera (all the sales staff were in a meeting) and she looked up the notes on it since they have this diamond in house. From 8mm away you can see black and white inclusions from the top and the side. From 25mm you cannot. Soooo, I guess I should keep searching and maybe try to stick to SI1 and better.
 
keep looking but if you just need an eye clean stone (not necessarily loupe clean) keep you options open. there *are* eye clean si2 diamonds out there.

best of luck!
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Date: 10/11/2006 4:05:01 PM
Author: jimtheideaman
''you can do much, much better''

In what specific way? Should I only consider Ideal Cut or do I need to look at the measurements and still consider Very Good cuts? Also, should I eliminate the EGL rated diaomnds?

By the way, the above mentioned diammond measures 6.23x6.19x3.88
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sorry i never got back to this before.

you don''t need to stay with only ''ideal'' cut diamonds. there are good performers in *gia graded* ''very good'' cuts as well but you have to know what to look for.
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make sure that you understand where the cut terminology is coming from. any cut ''grades'' from labs other than ags or gia, take with a grain of salt. cut is the absolute most important aspect of a nice diamond. once you understand what makes up a well cut diamond and how it effects the look and performance, you will be better able to find a great stone. imagine the difference in color and clarity between a diamond that is constantly dancing with blinding sparkles and that of one that is dull. you can easily see inclusions and body color in a diamond that doesn''t sparkle much. with a well cut diamond, you don''t notice the inclusions or color much because the diamond is just ''alive'' with movement and rainbow colors. all of this is beside the fact that other labs aren''t as strict on color and clarity grading. if you have a poor cut (even if it''s called ''very good'' by someone that doesn''t issue cut grades) not only will there be no sparkle to ''hide'' inclusions and color, the color/clarity is probably a grade, if not at least two, lower than it should be. can you find a good egl graded diamond? sure. but you must know what you are looking for and it would be more hit or miss than finding a perfectly eye clean si2. diamond cutters don''t send their best cuts to egl for grading.
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Are you talking centimeters or millimeters? If you can''t see anything unless you''re 8 millimeters away, that''s ok. Only people trying to poke themselves in the eye with your diamond will see the inclusions. :)
 
Ok, honestly now you''re putting doubts in my mind... I don''t know what the "standard" is so I don''t know if it''s mm or cm.... but I know you can see them at 8 and not at 25.
 
Date: 10/13/2006 11:01:45 AM
Author: jimtheideaman
Ok, honestly now you're putting doubts in my mind... I don't know what the 'standard' is so I don't know if it's mm or cm.... but I know you can see them at 8 and not at 25.
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I can clarify this for you. There is no official definition for eye-clean, so we developed one in order to communicate meaningfully with our customers.

25cm = appx 10 inches
8cm = appx 3 inches

25cm is the 'distance of most distinct vision’ as defined by the AGS. Our normal definition of eye-clean is "No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision."

However, some people scrutinize more than others. For this reason we also make a judgment at 8cm (appx 3 inches). It is unlikely that a diamond will be viewed at that distance, but we want to be as accurate as possible in our representation.

Here are related discussions.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/eye-clean-the-problem-descriptor.50556/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-eye-clean-definition-interpretation-and-taste.30483/
 
Date: 10/12/2006 11:57:33 AM
Author: belle
sorry i never got back to this before.

you don't need to stay with only 'ideal' cut diamonds. there are good performers in *gia graded* 'very good' cuts as well but you have to know what to look for.
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make sure that you understand where the cut terminology is coming from. any cut 'grades' from labs other than ags or gia, take with a grain of salt. cut is the absolute most important aspect of a nice diamond. once you understand what makes up a well cut diamond and how it effects the look and performance, you will be better able to find a great stone. imagine the difference in color and clarity between a diamond that is constantly dancing with blinding sparkles and that of one that is dull. you can easily see inclusions and body color in a diamond that doesn't sparkle much. with a well cut diamond, you don't notice the inclusions or color much because the diamond is just 'alive' with movement and rainbow colors. all of this is beside the fact that other labs aren't as strict on color and clarity grading. if you have a poor cut (even if it's called 'very good' by someone that doesn't issue cut grades) not only will there be no sparkle to 'hide' inclusions and color, the color/clarity is probably a grade, if not at least two, lower than it should be. can you find a good egl graded diamond? sure. but you must know what you are looking for and it would be more hit or miss than finding a perfectly eye clean si2. diamond cutters don't send their best cuts to egl for grading.
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Click to expand...
Nice overview on cut, Belle. In motion, particularly under direct lighting, the dynamic performance of a well-cut diamond can mask inclusions, as the lady says. Clarity characteristics are much more visible when the diamond is held perfectly still, in diffused light. This is why diamond grading/clarity judgments are made under such conditions.
 
Ok, I've narrowed my search down to 4 diamonds using all the advice on here. I realize I can't afford a 1 carot so I'm looking at 3/4 carot stones and I'm down to the following:

Cut Color Clarity Carot Flourescense Pol/Sym Grader Price Cut Advisor Score
Ideal J VS2 0.72 Blue EX/EX GIA $1,951 1.2
Ideal J VS2 0.77 StrongBlue EX/EX GIA $2,018 1.4
Ideal J SI1 0.80 Blue EX/EX GIA $2,141 1.4
Ideal J SI1 0.77 Negligible ID/ID AGSL $2,160 1.0

What do you think?
 
where did you find all of those fluorescearrific stones?
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I''ve read that flourescent stones help make the lower J rating look whiter. I''ve sorta looked for them. Is that bad?
 
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