shape
carat
color
clarity

Is this a good cut, proportions are good but HCA score 5.9 scares me

Reddy03

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2021
Messages
14
Definitely not. Try to stick within the ranges we suggested

Yes, restarting my search :(.

This time atleast search scope willl limited by inputting the ranges suggested

Question, what happens when all specs are in suggested range, except the table which is 1% more at 59%. it seems table is Always off a bit in most ideal cuts.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
16,719
Yes, restarting my search :(.

This time atleast search scope willl limited by inputting the ranges suggested

Question, what happens when all specs are in suggested range, except the table which is 1% more at 59%. it seems table is Always off a bit in most ideal cuts.

You can start with using the PriceScope diamond search which has diamonds listed by HCA results - so you have already rejected all diamonds with bad scores.
 

John Pollard

Shiny_Rock
Staff member
Premium
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
259
Question, what happens when all specs are in suggested range, except the table which is 1% more at 59%. it seems table is Always off a bit in most ideal cuts.
It's never about one spec. Everything works together. That said, the most positive combinations of crowns, pavilions, etc. work with tables in the 55-58% range. The reason those 'ideal' specs get recommended here is because they tend to result in a pleasing balance of brightness, dispersion and contrast. When you move to higher table% sizes the aesthetic shifts toward more brightness with a reduction in dispersion. These can be equally beautiful diamonds but there are less combos of proportions, overall, that can earn top marks.

As @Garry H (Cut Nut) mentioned above, the PriceScope search engine is the only one on the planet which applies the Holloway Cut Advisor (HCA) to stones in the round brilliant search.

Any diamond that receives an HCA score of Excellent will have reliably great light return.

1626825513510.png

When you find something that looks promising, post the specs here for the good people to comment on.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,219
Agree with @John Pollard and @Garry H (Cut Nut) that the PS search using HCA excellent scores can help narrow your results.

However, it’s not a SELECTION tool and further analysis is required to determine if you should move forward with a purchase or not. While very powerful, HCA uses 17 of the 57 facets to analyze cut. And it is based on data you enter from a lab report. With GIA in particular there is some gross rounding that occurs that may look good on paper but isn’t as great when you deep dive.

Also HCA notoriously favors shallow stones. More than some of us prefer. So you may get many results outside those parameters of 34-35 crown and 40.6-40.9 pavilion that is commonly recommended.

Definitely no disrespect to Garry and his development of the HCA. It’s a great resource and tool, but just remember it’s the first step in the selection process.

The real question becomes how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go?
 

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
928
Agree with @John Pollard and @Garry H (Cut Nut) that the PS search using HCA excellent scores can help narrow your results.

However, it’s not a SELECTION tool and further analysis is required to determine if you should move forward with a purchase or not. While very powerful, HCA uses 17 of the 57 facets to analyze cut. And it is based on data you enter from a lab report. With GIA in particular there is some gross rounding that occurs that may look good on paper but isn’t as great when you deep dive.

Also HCA notoriously favors shallow stones. More than some of us prefer. So you may get many results outside those parameters of 34-35 crown and 40.6-40.9 pavilion that is commonly recommended.

Definitely no disrespect to Garry and his development of the HCA. It’s a great resource and tool, but just remember it’s the first step in the selection process.

The real question becomes how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go?

Knowledge is power.

6bd49c0e-4127-4142-9d9d-0f74f3448735_text.gif
 

Reddy03

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2021
Messages
14
Loving this community!! Thanks again for all the responses, invaluable.

Yes, i observed the variances btw Periscope search results n the specs... i really dont want to stretch my budget, as this pendant is one of many items my wife has in pipeline (this year!!) so negotiations are ongoing where to comprise, color or clarity to fit under $6.5K USD. :)
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,219
Loving this community!! Thanks again for all the responses, invaluable.

Yes, i observed the variances btw Periscope search results n the specs... i really dont want to stretch my budget, as this pendant is one of many items my wife has in pipeline (this year!!) so negotiations are ongoing where to comprise, color or clarity to fit under $6.5K USD. :)

Perhaps I missed where you identified this as a pendant stone earlier. Because of the use, you can expand the proportions a bit to open up more choices. You don’t have to but it may help on the monetary side.

Also the shallow stones I mentioned that Garry’s HCA favors a bit work well in pendants and earrings because they are set, worn and viewed differently than an e-ring. In many ways different proportions are like “personalities” so matching them to your project can be beneficial.

In regards to stretching your dollar for maximum value, here are things I would consider:

1. Magic carat weights. The closer you get to them the more you pay. So 1 carat will cost more than 0.98. Just as 0.99 will cost more than 0.94.

2. Analyze spread, not carat weight. Weight is a horrible metric for determining size because carat weight is a function of width * length * depth. If a stone is overly deep it meets weight by shoving it in the vertical plane but it comes at the expense of decrease horizontal spread/size. Just as a shallow stone may push the weight in the horizontal plane making for a larger looking stone/spread, but if not a certain depth has other issues. All these proportions people are talking affect your L, W and D. If you stay within ranges and instead focus on spread ultimately you may be happier. For instance a steep deep 1 carat may be $6k. But a well cut 0.88 carat may be the same $6k or slightly less and have the same spread so to your eye both stones will look the same diameter.

3. Forget what everyone says about color. Take you and yours and go to a jewelry store. Tell the jeweler you want 5 stones with as near identical proportions and sizes as possible. You want an array of colors. You don’t want to know the color of any stone and to want them mixed up. Then start picking with your naked eye where tint is noticeable and also bothersome (sometimes that’s the same point but not always). If that point is K then you know a J or better will make you happy. If G then obviously shopping for a J would not make you happy. No color is “best”. However, the market prices less color as more expensive until you go the opposite side where lots of color (aka “fancies”) become very expensive. So if you both like a lower color this may help with your budget. At the least you know what it takes to make you happy.

4. Remember clarity is graded at 10x per the labs. In a one carat size range most VS2’s will be eye clean. And several SI1’s will work as well. The type, location and color matters greatly. If you get a stone with higher levels of fluor, I would pay more attention to clouds, graining, whisps, etc that may combine with the fluor to cause transparency issues in select lighting. Generally speaking lowering the clarity to a level that your naked eye can’t see is a great way to maximize your budget.

5. Get savvy with import restrictions, duties and taxes. If all the taxes are 20% and you have a $6k budget then simply use the following math formula to determine what I will call “diamond dollars”.

6,000 / 1.20 = 5,000 diamond dollars
6,000 - 5,000 = 1,000 dollars for duties, taxes, etc

Don’t forget to account for currency conversions. Some online places are more favorable than your bank.

6. If you happen to purchase a super ideal, you may have less risk. For instance I bought my wife’s stone from BGD in Houston, shipped to CA where DK designed her setting and set the stone and then shipped back across the country to me. Definitely not the traditional way to purchase but I had quality vendors and loads of communication, photos and videos to help make it a feasible transaction.

7. Consider the intangibles. Is upgrading an important future aspect? Are you risking color or clarity in exchange for budget? A vendor with generous upgrade policy such as WF,VC or Wolf may be worth considering. Their policies are simple. Spend $1 more and trade as your heart desires. Others may require you spend 2x the amount or upgrade multiple C’s making the trade process less easy. Also maybe having a full array of data helps you feel better with the purchase instead of “guessing” so much. I value these type of things more than some do, yet there is no hard & fast rule for applying a price tag to any of it. Really it’s a gut check of sorts. Just like some people you meet and instantly know you will like and trust and others never will. At least that has been my experience and I have learned over the years to always trust my gut no matter the magnitude of the situation.
 

Reddy03

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2021
Messages
14
Thanks @sledge for the detailed suggestions, much appreciated, been a busy week at work hopefully will close sthg this weekend.
 

Reddy03

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2021
Messages
14
i also got this but it also from 2019.
 

Attachments

  • 4473604B cert.pdf
    614.1 KB · Views: 2

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
14,143

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
928
Make sure to stick with the parameters listed in the green and adjacent light orange columns for best results with a ring setting:

1625707457281.png
 

John Pollard

Shiny_Rock
Staff member
Premium
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
259
Make sure to stick with the parameters listed in the green

Here is a brand new PriceScope Education page which may be helpful.

Diamond Proportions
 

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
928
Here is a brand new PriceScope Education page which may be helpful.

Diamond Proportions

You beat me to posting this by a matter of mere clock ticks!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,219


any thoughts on this? specs looks good, HCA is 1.6 but certificate is from late 2019.. cert.jpeg

Proportionally this stone shows promise, and the HCA confirms that. However, I am cautiously optimistic with this combo because when advanced images are available I’ve seen some great ones but also some with leakage.

When I look at the video, I immediately see there are some arrows that are translucent. This makes me curious if a few of the actual pavilions are 41.2+ degrees which is a critical angle of sorts where light doesn’t quite strike the pavilion right. In short, you shouldn’t see translucent arrows, they should all appear black where the arrows are reflecting the black obstruction caused by the camera.

I’m now suspect of this stone and would likely keep searching but if price metrics has this as a contender then request JA provide an idealscope image of the stone to help confirm light return. I think you will see some leakage.

Generally speaking, if you think of diamonds like a geometry puzzle, you want light to enter and then bounce around and leave back through the top. The crown & pavilion angles determine the “pathway” that light will bounce. So pairing the right angles together are critical. When you consider this, you may hear terms like “complimentary” angles. What this means is you pair a crown with a pavilion angle that helps maximize that pathway.

For instance a steep crown pairs well with a shallow pavilion (35/40.6) just as a shallow crown pairs well with a steep pavilion (34/40.8, maybe a tight 34/41). The infamous 34.5/40.8 is also a nice pairing.

Factor in gross GIA rounding and you can see how this becomes a more complex scenario and why I believe you see such wide variation in the performance of 35/40.8 combos.

CC879785-BBBB-47B1-8B21-55E423E0138E.jpeg


i also got this but it also from 2019.

Agree with @lovedogs, stay away from this one! There are rare exceptions where a VG stone may be a great performer but this is not the case. In fact finding such a VG stone is equivalent to finding a unicorn, as so few exist. I would steer you towards 3X stones for best performance.

I might add the crazy shallow 40.2 is the issue and not even remotely close to complimentary to the 34.5 crown. Additionally it dips below 40.45 and will have obstruction issues.

FYI, the year in the lab report isn’t the issue. It’s the proportions. However it is possible the stone hasn’t sold because it’s a poor performer. That said, even if you find a great stone with an old cert, you should request the vendor send the stone back to GIA and have them regrade the stone. It’s plausible the stone is pre-loved and in such scenarios you want to make sure there wasn’t some accidental damage that occurred that would have lowered the previously graded clarity.
 
Last edited:

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,219
Have you saw this yet?

WF Expert Select 1.143 I-SI1 @ $5,675 wire

Take a peek at the sparkle video -- lots of fire! I don't love the black crystal on the table, but the WF site states it's EYE CLEAN. Also, keep in mind, these photos and videos are grossly magnified @ 30-40x. To put it in perspective, labs use 10x to grade and our eyes see at 1x. So while it may be easy to pinpoint on your computer screen, what matters is what you can see with the naked eye.

What I like about this stone is it gets you a very well cut stone that is part of WF's prestigious lifetime upgrade policy (spend $1 more and trade how you wish). It's pushing your budget a smidge with duties & taxes but I know there are some coupons for $100-200 off, which I think may get it within that $6k USD range with all the taxes, etc. You have advanced images and it's a known performer.

In my opinion, a very good bang for the buck. And you get a nice 6.80mm spread out of the deal. At the least I'd put it on reserve while you think it through.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
14,143
Have you saw this yet?

WF Expert Select 1.143 I-SI1 @ $5,675 wire

Take a peek at the sparkle video -- lots of fire! I don't love the black crystal on the table, but the WF site states it's EYE CLEAN. Also, keep in mind, these photos and videos are grossly magnified @ 30-40x. To put it in perspective, labs use 10x to grade and our eyes see at 1x. So while it may be easy to pinpoint on your computer screen, what matters is what you can see with the naked eye.

What I like about this stone is it gets you a very well cut stone that is part of WF's prestigious lifetime upgrade policy (spend $1 more and trade how you wish). It's pushing your budget a smidge with duties & taxes but I know there are some coupons for $100-200 off, which I think may get it within that $6k USD range with all the taxes, etc. You have advanced images and it's a known performer.

In my opinion, a very good bang for the buck. And you get a nice 6.80mm spread out of the deal. At the least I'd put it on reserve while you think it through.

oooo I would definitely choose this over the JA one!
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    Jewels of the Week: September 2021
    Jewels of the Week: September 2021 - 09/24
    5 Jewelry Styling Tips For Your Date
    5 Jewelry Styling Tips For Your Date - 09/22
    5 Reasons To Design Your Own Custom Engagement Ring
    5 Reasons To Design Your Own Custom Engagement Ring - 09/20

Holloway Cut Advisor



Top