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Is there any reason not to reveal a certificate number?

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,524
I was interested in a ring someone has on ebay that was listed as an ideal cut, hearts and arrows stone. I asked to see the grading report and the pic I got had all the numbers blacked out. I asked if I could get a copy showing the numbers so I could look up the report online and see if it had more info than was showing on the copy sent to me. The seller came back with

"sorry it has taken me so long to respond but im sorry that im not able to get you a picture without the blackened parts due to the fact that the ring has never been registered and I have been reluctant to send that certificate information for the safety reason of protecting me and/or who ever purchases the ring. I have since checked the website and feel that I have given most of the information that one could find on that website if they had that information. sorry for the incovenience. If there is something in paricular I can get you please emal me back and I will attempt to retrieve that info for you."


Would he have been taking a risk by telling me the report number? I''m thinking the only thing he''s risking is getting a lot less $$$ for a possible nice diamond that I won''t bid on now.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
27,242
My first guess, fair or not, would be that the seller is using some other stone''s report (or a fake report) and doesn''t want you to be able to crosscheck..

So I wouldn''t bid either.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,227
Maybe it''s stolen.
 

partgypsy

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
6,622
I''m not sure what it means to be registered, does that mean the certificate identifies who the diamond belongs to?

Personally if I was selling a stone on Ebay, I would also be leery to give in addition to all the specific specs of the diamond the certificate number as well, though I can''t explain why. Could someone possibly take that info and use it to insure a (nonexisting) diamond or cz something? I don''t know. I would have some kind of caveat if buying on Ebay, the shipped stone must match the cert or unconditional return. Regardless if have the cert number or not, there still is many things that can go wrong; having the cert # before buying doesn''t "guarantee" anything.
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
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3,524
Date: 7/1/2010 5:55:40 PM
Author: part gypsy
I''m not sure what it means to be registered, does that mean the certificate identifies who the diamond belongs to?

Personally if I was selling a stone on Ebay, I would also be leery to give in addition to all the specific specs of the diamond the certificate number as well, though I can''t explain why. Could someone possibly take that info and use it to insure a (nonexisting) diamond or cz something? I don''t know. I would have some kind of caveat if buying on Ebay, the shipped stone must match the cert or unconditional return. Regardless if have the cert number or not, there still is many things that can go wrong; having the cert # before buying doesn''t ''guarantee'' anything.
I''ve never seen a cert that showed who owned a diamond, and I have no idea what he means by registered. I tend to think he doesn''t either, based on the way he wrote. I was thinking it''s just like when we toss AGS, GIA, IGI or whatever labs report # around on here. I was hoping to get the # to go online and check the crown & pav angles, etc. That would have given me an idea if I wanted to persue the stone. From the pics I think it may be a nice one, but can''t be sure.

There was another loose stone I got into it with other bidders over that went for near retail. He included the AGS # and all available info. It was a smaller stone but I was willing to go much higher because I knew what I was looking at. I still got beat.
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On the idea of insuring a non-existant stone, I guess that''s possible. But the first thing that comes to my mind is that it wouldn''t have much effect on me. For example I recently bought 2 diamonds from JbEG''s website that had the GIA #''s and the Eightstar COA #''s published for all to see. If someone copied one and insured it I still have the stone and papers in my possesion. I also have many pics of it clearly in my possesion along with the sales reciept. If they filed a false claim then I came along and filed a legitimate claim with the same insurer I think I''d be OK and they might have a bad day.
 

mattbrown516

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
9
Well, it depends. If you''re a retailer sourcing a stone from a supplier for a client and you give the client the report# & price it''s possible your client could turn around, call another store and say "can you get this stone for me for a better price?" In theory, the store could then locate the diamond and ask the supplier to send it to him if the pending sale falls through (which it will now)... Etc.

Now in your situation, I don''t know why an eBay seller would hesitate. In fact it should only benefit the eBay seller with labs now offering online verifications. Unless the eBay seller has it on-memo from a supplier, which seems unlikely. I would be wary of a seller on eBay who is too secretive or not as forth coming as possible with all information regarding the item he or she is selling.

By the way, after only being a viewer and reader of pricescope for some time this is my first post here.
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,524
Date: 7/1/2010 6:29:36 PM
Author: mattbrown516
Well, it depends. If you''re a retailer sourcing a stone from a supplier for a client and you give the client the report# & price it''s possible your client could turn around, call another store and say ''can you get this stone for me for a better price?'' In theory, the store could then locate the diamond and ask the supplier to send it to him if the pending sale falls through (which it will now)... Etc.

Now in your situation, I don''t know why an eBay seller would hesitate. In fact it should only benefit the eBay seller with labs now offering online verifications. Unless the eBay seller has it on-memo from a supplier, which seems unlikely. I would be wary of a seller on eBay who is too secretive or not as forth coming as possible with all information regarding the item he or she is selling.

By the way, after only being a viewer and reader of pricescope for some time this is my first post here.
Let me be the first to welcome you to PS!
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You make a good point about sourced stones. That''s a risk all vendors take, although the #''s are generally often with the stone info. This particular case is someone who''s not a vendor, just has the one ring and has it in his posession from the pics. I suspect it''s a case of broken engagement and she gave the ring back. To make it even harder on the guy he''s never sold anything else on ebay, has no other listings or feedback, and has been a member for 2 weeks. In spite of all those red flags the cert # would have gotten me to at least consider it. I was thinking exactly what you said about the secretiveness.
 

mattbrown516

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
9
Date: 7/1/2010 6:42:19 PM
Author: Lone_Wolfe

Let me be the first to welcome you to PS!
35.gif


You make a good point about sourced stones. That''s a risk all vendors take, although the #''s are generally often with the stone info. This particular case is someone who''s not a vendor, just has the one ring and has it in his posession from the pics. I suspect it''s a case of broken engagement and she gave the ring back. To make it even harder on the guy he''s never sold anything else on ebay, has no other listings or feedback, and has been a member for 2 weeks. In spite of all those red flags the cert # would have gotten me to at least consider it. I was thinking exactly what you said about the secretiveness.
Wow. Runaway I say.

Thanks a lot for the welcome. Great to be here.
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,524
Date: 7/1/2010 6:49:47 PM
Author: mattbrown516

Wow. Runaway I say.

Thanks a lot for the welcome. Great to be here.
Yeah, I did just that. It ended a bit ago for more than I thought it would, but considerably less that I would have bid if the numbers had been good. About $120 less that a stone .07 smaller with the same specs and no setting, but the seller gave the AGS #.

I know there''s so many scammers that we can''t trust anyone anymore, which is a real shame. A few years back a lady selling a carat+ pear diamond had no selling history, but I took a chance anyway and got my best deal ever on ebay. So don''t be a stranger, Matt. Pulll up a chair and chat!
35.gif
 

cinnamon013

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
1,701
the reply makes me think scam and I''d steer clear in a very big way.
 

PenguinIce

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
51
See if he''ll accept an "out of town" check with extra zeros... tell him just deposit the check and wire you the difference to your uncle in Nigeria that also has some uncollected money.
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mattbrown516

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
9
Date: 7/1/2010 10:17:12 PM
Author: Lone_Wolfe


Date: 7/1/2010 6:49:47 PM
Author: mattbrown516

Wow. Runaway I say.

Thanks a lot for the welcome. Great to be here.
Yeah, I did just that. It ended a bit ago for more than I thought it would, but considerably less that I would have bid if the numbers had been good. About $120 less that a stone .07 smaller with the same specs and no setting, but the seller gave the AGS #.

I know there''s so many scammers that we can''t trust anyone anymore, which is a real shame. A few years back a lady selling a carat+ pear diamond had no selling history, but I took a chance anyway and got my best deal ever on ebay. So don''t be a stranger, Matt. Pulll up a chair and chat!
35.gif


Well it''s good to hear that you were able to find a diamond in the rough (pun intended)
1.gif
. You definitely found the exception, not the rule with that lady''s carat and a pear, but that is great to hear that you found such a great deal. I am with you, I would feel much better about dealing for a stone that may be a bit smaller, but comes with the security of an upfront seller. They say you can''t put a price on security...but I could ballpark it
2.gif
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
Date: 7/2/2010 2:14:13 PM
Author: mattbrown516

Date: 7/1/2010 10:17:12 PM
Author: Lone_Wolfe



Date: 7/1/2010 6:49:47 PM
Author: mattbrown516

Wow. Runaway I say.

Thanks a lot for the welcome. Great to be here.
Yeah, I did just that. It ended a bit ago for more than I thought it would, but considerably less that I would have bid if the numbers had been good. About $120 less that a stone .07 smaller with the same specs and no setting, but the seller gave the AGS #.

I know there''s so many scammers that we can''t trust anyone anymore, which is a real shame. A few years back a lady selling a carat+ pear diamond had no selling history, but I took a chance anyway and got my best deal ever on ebay. So don''t be a stranger, Matt. Pulll up a chair and chat!
35.gif


Well it''s good to hear that you were able to find a diamond in the rough (pun intended)
1.gif
. You definitely found the exception, not the rule with that lady''s carat and a pear, but that is great to hear that you found such a great deal. I am with you, I would feel much better about dealing for a stone that may be a bit smaller, but comes with the security of an upfront seller. They say you can''t put a price on security...but I could ballpark it
2.gif
LOL! Matt, welcome to PS. You may be new, but you will do well here. Say hello to Art for me.

Wink
 
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