Is there a double standard for PS vendors vs others?

[strmrdr]

This question was asked in the thread about my new ring about a specific vendor.
I feel it would be a lot better to discuss it in general than aimed at one vendor so lets try and keep it general.

My answer is it really depends on what you call a double standard.
When someone comes here with a problem and they havent given the vendor a chance to fix it then the comments will be less harsh for a PS vendor vs. others true.
The main reason that we know that the PS vendors have a long history of doing the right thing and fixing problems and given a chance it wont e a problem anymore.
If they dont do the right thing they will get tore into even worse than anyone else would by the a lot of posters.
That keeps pressure on the vendors to do the right thing.

As far as policies go they do get a little bit of a pass there.
If 99% is right they might get a pass on the 1%.
Bringing up the 1% can being a lot of comments from consumers on the part that the vendors do right.
So it would seem that some vendors will get stuck up for on bad decisions.

I for one am not afraid to go after the vendors no matter who they are when I think its needed as some recent threads demonstrate.
I have to be honest and say I might press it a lot harder if its not a vendor I like however.

Sorry for rambling on but thats my thoughts on it.
Whats yours?

 

[aljdewey]

I'm not sure "double standard" is the right descriptive.

Rather, I'd say that this situation is like many others in life. Those who we become familiar with earn a certain "benefit of the doubt" that strangers don't necessarily get.

Let's assume you tell me that John Smith treated you harshly. I don't know John Smith, so I have no counter information to contribute about his behavior. He gets no benefit of the doubt.

Now let's assume you tell me that Jack Jones treated you harshly. I DO know Jack Jones, and he's one of the most passive, gentle people I know. I *would* be quick to point out that your experience with him seems out of character and hopefully incite you to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't see how that is interpreted as bias. In fact, one of the things I most admire about PS is that I can learn from *other people's* real experiences.

It can absolutely work the other way, too, by the way. You might ask what I think of ABC Diamonds, and I don't have anything to contribute because I don't know them/haven't dealt with them. You may, however, ask about XYZ Diamonds, and I may have negative input to contribute because I was an unsatisfied customer.

What I'm trying to say is: I don't think there is inherent bias. I think the pendulum swings equally in both directions, and those who are fondly spoken of here (GOG, WF, DI, NiceIce) get that benefit because they've EARNED it through many satisfied customers.

 

[oldminer]

I believe there is a ton of pressure on Pricescope vendors to bend over backwards to serve their clients fairly and well. If they fail, in any perceived respect, it is all too easy for a consumer to complain openly about them and force the vendor to correct things that are not even wrong. This is a very powerful tool and subject to only occasional abuse, so it seems. It is painful for a vendor to be forced into doing something to satisfy a client when nothing should be done. Some clients just cannot be satisifed in normal ways. Thankfully, we do not see this happening here often.





I don't see any double standards at work here. We have occasionally seen non-particpant vendors accused here of a misdeed or bad work and suddenly they come on Pricescope to defend themselves. Someone called them and brought it to their attention and they can be very defensive. When you are attacked by surprise the first reaction is to attack back and defend yourself. Many retailers know nothing about Pricescope. So strange reactions to being taken to task on an open forum appear to be quite common. Again, this does not occur very often.





We have seen a recent example with the problem Tesnsion Set missing diamond issue and the "warranty" provided by a manufacturer on such a mounting. It was pretty hot and heavy, but I think the manufacturer did the best they could to work with the customer. Whether someone will get a free diamond out of this is hardly the issue. The way things were going, I believe there was improved communication because of Pricescope. Matters were improved, not worsened. This is all positive.





The old saying that "The customer is always right". does have some merit. "The customer is not always totally right, but is entitled to be treated well and made to feel they have been heard and understood" makes more sense. You just can't convert such a less well defined way to handle problems into a solution. If at all possible, it is best to solve any and all problems in a final and rapid manner. If it hurts a bit, so be it and go on. It is just a part of doing business.





Double standard? No, I see it as a standard that overall favors the customer in every respect.

 

[noobie]

Did someone strike a nerve Dave? Why the bold text? OK, as the person that made the comment in storm’s thread, I need to clarify. When I said double standard, benefit of the doubt is probably more applicable. Are people less likely to complain about any of the vendors here who have earned their reputation than other vendors that do not participate? I certainly feel that way. I’ll give them the one, two or more extra chances just based on what people post. In fact many feel pleased to support vendors who have given them outstanding service. Does this mean that everyone in infallible? I don’t think so either.

We hear a great deal about the positive experiences, and rightfully so. Are the not so positive experiences overlooked or not brought to light because of the reputations and the benefit of doubt? I don’t know. Do people even want to hear about them? So it’s a good question.

 

[strmrdr]

I for one want to hear all opinions good and bad about the vendors here.
The vendors cant afford not to address problems in a positive manner when they are raised on here.
Some people have taken advantage of that which is what Dave is getting at.

I remember one case where a 3 day old ring looked like it got slammed in a car door and I bet that her finger didnt look very good either.
The person came on here and was screaming look at my ring from whiteflash
its trashed and I didnt do anything to it.
Id put money on it that the ring wasnt damaged when whiteflash shipped it.
Not one of the PS vendors would have shipped a mangled ring like that.
Whiteflash found it cheaper to replace/repair the ring than get any bad publicity here.
Id have told the consumer to get bent it isnt my problem you trashed your ring in 3 days.
That is what Dave is talking about.

btw the responce from almost all the people here was call whiteflash and see what they can do for you.
I for one didnt expect them to take care of it no charge it was odvious in the pictures that the ring had been crushed.

 

[Mara]

Of course people talk about negative experiences with vendors. Run a search on any particular vendor and you will see both good and bad. I think there is more good than bad but not because people don't speak up. People may not always feel the need to keep Pscope informed of every aspect of their purchase. Sometimes people post about having a problem with a vendor that they made right. Sometimes they don't post about it at all but tell friends.

Every few months someone asks why there is only good and no bad discussed about on Pscope, which is plain incorrect. Many of us have had multiple experiences with vendors, some good and some borderline bad. But not everything needs to be told, even if some people would prefer to hear it.

Whether anyone decides to withhold information from a vendor while dealing with them is their perogative, but if a vendor website or note says to note Pscope to get a lower price, what exactly is the point of withholding that information only to later say that they overpriced you. Sounds like playing games. Be up front about what you want and you may just get it. With one vendor in a previous purchase, I told them..look this is my budget and I want this stone. They worked with me to get it because they wanted my business. It was collaborative. Why do it any other way?

Be honest and keep those lines of communication open. There will always be plusses and minuses of EVERY transaction, it's rare you come across one that is entirely painless. Some may be communicated and some won't. I have had bad and good experiences with a few vendors on here. Even the bad ones I don't necessarily throw around, why bother? People will figure out things on their own. Pscope helps it along but airing dirty laundry is not always the way to go especially when someone's livelihood is involved.

 

[noobie]

aljdewey wrote:





"A few comments to add to these thoughts.

1. I fully agree with you, Noob, that people should know all experiences. I think it's fair to post one's experiences about any vendor, and that means sharing favorable experiences as well as disappointing ones. Vendors aren't perfect, nor should we expect them to be....but we all learn from what cost us opportunities.

I've worked with several of the vendors here, and communication does vary depending on when you catch them and on how full their plate is. I took exception to what I felt was lack of responsive communication with one of those vendors in a frank, non-inflammatory discussion. Problem solved. It's much easier for vendors to meet your expectations when you outline what they are.

2. The diamond business, I figure, isn't much different from others. Those folks who are vocal get noticed. This is a fact of life. In a perfect world, everyone would get treated equally regardless of their chosen method of communication. But it's not a perfect world, and the truth is that the best way of communicating with most of these folks is still the good, old-fashioned telephone.

Yes, I know these folks all operate over the internet, but it's easier to separate the tire-kickers from the real shoppers on the phone than it is on email. There's also less "spam" on the phone to pore through than there is email. (Imagine if you had to listen to 29 voice messages on your home answering machine before you could get to the 30th message---a call from your sister, maybe.) If you choose use email alone, you may not get the kind of response time you want. It's not that difficult to use the phone, and I know---I physically phoned every single vendor when we were shopping for my e-ring last year. It was faster to tell them what I wanted than to draft an email, to be honest.

3. I'll say it again....the diamond business isn't much different than others. I've seen local jewelers give their regular customers breaks on pricing that Joe off the street doesn't get. I've seen them give free repair work that non-customers pay for. Vegas hotels give comps to their high-rollers. Airlines give frequent flyer miles to those they KNOW fly with them often. It's not outlandish to me that any vendor here might work the numbers harder for a PS customer or a repeat customer.

4. I can't fairly comment on the perceived price discrepancy between what you were quoted for custom work and what others may have been because there are a whole host of variables. The price of a custom job depends on the metals used, the amount of metals used, the stones, etc, etc. etc. Unless it's an apples-to-apples comparison, it's not really meaningful.

The timeline on when those people got their rings made may also have a GREAT deal to do with price differential. Before choosing WF to make my setting, I spoke to a custom designer last November and got a price quote for my ring....by the time I finalized my choice in March, his price was 25% more for the same ring with NO sides. The price of the metals had gone up, especially the platinum.

I also spoke to another designer who made a custom piece for another woman here. Her price was nearly half what mine was....but her ring was made 14 months prior to mine, and it didn't involve as much metal weight as mine did.

After I posted pics of my custom ring from WF, a few folks asked me what it cost. I didn't divulge cost information for two reasons: one, because that's a personal question to me...I don't give details like that even to my family. And two, because I don't want to mislead someone....either too high or too low....when their project may actually vary greatly from mine. Not all custom jobs are the same.

Anyway, just a few random thoughts."





You know al, I agree with practically everything you said and even after my not so good experience I continued to recommend WF stones to people here. What really got me miffed was a PM I got from Debi with her email address seeking feedback. I took the time to write what I thought was a balanced e-mail on July 27 and I have heard nothing back. And since you ask, it was e-mail and phone communication and pricing verified independently by a few sources. Anyways, I didn't want this to come to this. I really was wondering since I was more inclined to keep quiet, if this was a general trend. And anyone that has followed my posts would not call me a "tire kicker". I spent $3,400 in four short e-mails with DCD. It was smooth as silk.

 

[hoorray]

Noobie,

I think your point is valid at least to the point that established PS vendors tend to get the benefit of doubt on the bad, and rave reviews on the good. To the point that they might be unbalanced. Especially for new people, there are so many rave reviews, that airing a bad experience might make one think twice, because they might be surprised that such a fovored vendor did someting wrong. I have had some not so great experience with a couple of vendors, but since I chose not to buy from them, I didn't think it was appropriate to blast them publically. I never gave them the feedback so that they could fix it, I just took my $$ elsewhere.

If asked directly, I will tell anyone about my experiences, and I'm careful about who I will recommend -- even if they are one of the "faves" here. But, I agree with Mara, my complaints were generally things everyone would be able to figure out on their own, so publically complaining didn't seem important. These vendors survive on a combination of their customer service and their reputations. If their customer service isn't top notch, people will figure it out on their own. If I had an experience where one was not honest, you can bet I'd tell everyone I could tell.

My net net is that the favorite vendors are not all perfect. You still have to be a smart consumer and communicate aggressively to get what you consider value.

Thanks for bring it up.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 8/16/2004 8:24:15 PM noobie wrote:


You know al, I agree with practically everything you said and even after my not so good experience I continued to recommend WF stones to people here. What really got me miffed was a PM I got from Debi with her email address seeking feedback. I took the time to write what I thought was a balanced e-mail on July 27 and I have heard nothing back. And since you ask, it was e-mail and phone communication and pricing verified independently by a few sources. Anyways, I didn't want this to come to this. I really was wondering since I was more inclined to keep quiet, if this was a general trend. And anyone that has followed my posts would not call me a 'tire kicker'. I spent $3,400 in four short e-mails with DCD. It was smooth as silk.

----------------[/quote]


Noobie, valid points all. (By the way, just so we're clear, I wasn't calling *you* a tire-kicker.

My only point is that it's hard for vendors to know which inquires are serious and which are not when they are a bazillion emails to sort through. I think people who phone get a better advantage because they've already placed more effort than most people, and (I think) vendors perceive that to be a real sign of interest.

I COMPLETELY agree that it's unacceptable for someone (Debi or anyone else) to specifically ask for feedback and then not acknowledge the time you took to provide it. I can understand why you're miffed on that, and I can say I'd likely be miffed too.

 

[debi wexler]

Hi Guys,


My apologies in not responding to your pm email requests. As a relatively new and infrequent writer on Pricescope I will admit that I didn't know if you were going to write further detail via PM or that I should confirm my email address even though I received your PM on Pricescope. This morning I responded, so I hope to hear back from you.


I am a big supporter of feedback, both positive and negative when it comes to our business. I also want to say no order size or request is insignificant. I hope our future actions support that statement. Thanks for the posts AND hope to hear from you soon, cause if I don't I will be emailing you all again for the feedback follow up.

 

[oldminer]

Noobie:




No, you didn't strike a nerve. I was just experimenting the the rich text options on Pricescope that I had never found before. I usually use Garamond Bold in font size 12 for email so that it will stand out and be very readable. Using bold on Pricescope makes reading easy, but I SEEM TO BE SHOUTING>>>> when I am just being me...

 

[noobie]

Ummmm, Debi thanks, but you sent me your e-mail address again by PM. I sent you an e-mail in July and another follow-up in August to that address.




Dave, I was just curious, BTW I agree with your points. I've seen vendors remake rings without hesitation and think, hey that's pretty cool, unexpected but cool and perhaps above and beyond

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Everyone,
I'm not a PS vendor-
I'd simply like to add that although my opinion may differ with others on this forum, management is gracious and allows me to share my thoughts.
Kudos to them.

That would also make it seem to me that the management would also allow consumers to complain if they feel compelled to do so in an honest, polite manner.
I have seen such threads- so we know they exsist.

Win/win

 

[Rank Amateur]

Too bad all forums don't work that way!

 

[bar01]

I do think that the recommended PS vendors here are held to a higher standard (double standard?)- which they should be. What might be considered "a bad experience" with a well-known PS vendor would be considered "acceptable" from a local B&M store!

I agree with others - in that many of the recommended PS vendors appear to be swamped with communications and work. I think many of us start out as tire kickers - with our projects being several months away- wanting lots of information, comparison pricing, advice, etc.. without being ready to buy right away. This creates a lot of work for the PS vendors to do - when they should be focusing on people ready to buy from them soon.

But many businesses - mine included - have to deal with clients (all kinds!) and requestes (demands?) for information, proposals and pricing. It is the way of the world these days - very competitive, very demanding, very fast, lots of information flying around, and not much profit margins. You do something less than excellent and word gets out fast.

I think maybe some people are a little intimidated to air a complaint (even a minor one) about PS listed companies that otherwise receive so many glowing statements.

I, myself, voiced a minor complaint about a well known vendor (after someone else started a thread about a major complaint) - but you know what? After I posted my experience on PS - I got two messages that same day from the vendor apologizing - and I decided to buy my diamonds from them - which says it all. Further, if I have diamond or jewlery needs in the future - I will go to them first - and give references. Can't put a price on that.

I also aired one "not so minor" complaint about a listed (but not active) PS appraiser. I did get some thanks and support for airing my complaints (via Private Messages afterwards).

I was very hesitant to air my complaint - but ultimately decided that this was a consumer driven board and that it needed to be open to all opinions and expereinces - good, bad, and even "so-so".

Whether it is diamonds - or the vendors - recommended on PS I think we are dealing with the some of the "best of the best" and expectations run very high - and sometimes emotions too.

 

[Blueman33]

Lop,

There are many of us who use your approach. Take the $$$ elsewhere, if someone specifically asks, tell your experience. Less drama, less stress.
~~~

On any on-line forum there are politics and biases, this one included.

 

[Brian Knox]

Hi Bar,

Excellent post, you made some very good points that will benefit other members

It is the airing of the good the bad and the ugly that truly benefits other consumers.

There was one comment you made that I do take exception with and it is:

"What might be considered "a bad experience" with a well-known PS vendor would be considered "acceptable" from a local B&M store!"

It is both inaccurate and unfair (for good B&M's) to suggest that a lower level of customer service exists at all B&M's when compared to internet vendors.

You probably did not mean it this way.