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is it paraiba

Discussion in 'Colored Gemstones' started by Arkteia, Feb 18, 2010.

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  1. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Feb 18, 2010
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190318605201&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    I feel horrible - I am sorry, I do not know how to paste links here!

    However - this is one of the stones I have been watching on ebay. Watching very lazily; it is not something I would be racing for. But just for my education - is it Paraiba or not? It certainly looks like a tourmaline to me but I have no idea beyond that.
     
    


    


  2. Burberrygirl
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Burberrygirl » Feb 18, 2010
    LINK

    Sorry, I can''t offer much help but it is pretty :)
     
  3. Arkteia
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Arkteia » Feb 18, 2010
    Thank you BurberryGirl.
     
  4. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » Feb 18, 2010
    Crasru,
    You need to see a real paraiba in person. That''s a very included, minty green tourmaline. Nothing special.
     
    


    


  5. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 18, 2010
    Do you know what i have come to realize..after sending quite a few stones to be tested for CU not as many as you think actually derive there color from copper...I would wager that many mozambique paraibas that many on here own or see on ebay do not derive there color from copper..that is what makes a copper spectrometer test good...doesn''t matter if it''s copper bearing...what matters is if the color you are seeing is caused by copper..a lot more than you think are actually getting there color due to iron as opposed to copper...I actually just returned a 4ct original blue brazilian batalha paraiba copper bearing tourmaline facet rough crystal..after getting a CU spec. it was determined that iron was the acting coloring chromophore and not copper even though copper was present..paid a bunch of money for it but when you buy cuprain or paraiba by god you want the color caused by copper, ya know...without running a CU test there is no way of knowing and even so if you do have copper doesn''t mean that the color is caused by it..like TL has said before there are some afghan''s that would go toe to toe with some so called paraibas/cuprians
     
  6. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Feb 18, 2010
    Thank you, TL. So I was right in my laziness.

    (Sigh). So...ugm...how does one meet a Paraiba? An ad in Craigslist? "Me - a vivacious, funny, middle-aged blonde (looking younger than my age), flirtatious and risk-taking. You - a blue-eyed, bright, copper-bearing Paraiba, honest and true. Size and age unimportant. No foul play, please. Ebayers - do not bother."?
     
  7. Burberrygirl
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    by Burberrygirl » Feb 18, 2010
    LOL! Crasru, you're funny! Have you ever seen pictures of LovingDiamonds' paraibas? Check out this thread (you have to see a pic of her 18ct Paraiba if you haven't already). This one makes me drool [​IMG]

    LovingDiamondsParaiba.jpg
     
  8. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Feb 18, 2010
    Me, too! I just do not know how to read the colors in ebay pictures, they are so overphotoshopped. I am just trying to use common sense - a paraiba that has been hanging over on ebay for several months and is discounted, likely, is not Paraiba. Just wanted to check this guy - he sells a lot of stuff.
     
  9. RockHugger
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    by RockHugger » Feb 19, 2010
    It looks like a copper bearing tourmaline (the pic from the side deff). But it is a very low quality one.

    Im not understanding amethystguys post. If it had copper in it, it is still technically a 'paraiba tourmaline' in the market. Stones can carry all sorts of minerals in them,including iron, depending on the location. If its neon blue/green/pink/purple , and contains copper, its a cuprian "paraiba' tourmaline, even if it also contains iron.
     
  10. T L
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    by T L » Feb 19, 2010
    Go to a gem show if there is one near you. They usually have a few. Even though LD has some beautiful paraibas, a photo just does not do them justice. You really need to see one in person.
     
    


    


  11. chrono
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    by chrono » Feb 19, 2010

    No, there is no glow at all but is only a poorly coloured stone that is somewhat bright. Even if this picture has been photoshopped and I’m not saying it is, the tourmaline looks rather unattractive. You have seen pictures of real Paraibas from reputable and well known published sources, correct? If so, just place it side by side with this picture and you’ll see that this stone doesn’t even hold a candle to a real Paraiba.

     
  12. Barrett
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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    It looks like a cuprian..you can have no idea if it''s cuprian or not from looking at it..here are a few examples
    This is a brazilian paraiba batalha mine specimen..the first pic shows the purple blue area..this is copper bearing and shows copper as the acting coloring agent


    kia 1.jpg
     
  13. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    Now less than 1 inch away from that is another set of crystals...hmmm..attached right next to a copper bearing purple brazilian tourmaline is some brownish pink ones..these show no copper chromophores in them whatsoever...well thats strange..they came from the actual original paraiba mine...must have copper...spectra shows none...now if i was to have an advanced testing like an LA-ICP-MS or an XRF test i could detect CU in parts per billion or maybe even parts per million in those pinkish-brown crystals

    kia 2.jpg
     
  14. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    So as you can see even though they sit one inch away from a copper chromophore colored paraiba they show none on the spectrometer..they are not "glowy" or "neon" but I can bet you under testing there would be CU present in parts per billion and maybe even parts per million...does that make these cuprian?
    Now here is a CU spectrograph on a "GLOWY" reddish-purple mozambique so called "cuprian" tourmaline..sufice to say i don''t have a pic since the stone got sent back as quickly as it arrived...this stone came from someone a few of you know who is very reputable...CU spec. shows not one single touch of copper..only manganese and iron..well it was purple..it was glowy..it was from mozambique...ahh..but no copper...but it LOOKED like a cuprian...doesn''t matter...only some cuprains can you actually tell just by looking at them and know..some of the original brazilian ones and ones like chrono and TL have mentioned..the few and far between mozam. and oyo(oro) and edoukou mines cuprians that you can tell without a doubt...the whole.."well it looks neon..or it looks glowy" is so skewered....until you have seen a real neon or glowy paraiba then that term will not get tossed aroud nearly as much..who had some Nigerian cuprians..one of the popular precision cutter on here..saw pics of one or two of the stones they sold..they were the most NOT GLOWY OR NOT NEON tourmalines but i can bet you they were cuprian(copper bearing)...so you see..you can''t tell by lookig at a stone if it''s cuprian or not

    kia 3.jpg
     
  15. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    closer up

    kia 4.jpg
     
    


    


  16. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    As bruce fry put it so eloquently(spelled right?) "BECAUSE IRON AND COPPER PRODUCE THE SAME COLOR IN TOURMALINE (ELBAITE)."
    He also ads "Why didn''t professional dealers realize they were dealing with cuprian tourmaline (paraiba type) for years before the "discovery" of copper in material I sent to the GIA. " [in the mozambique material]

    Because you can''t tell by looking at a tourmaline if it''s cuprian or not...the mozam mauvco finds had been going on for years..some of the finest cuprains were found but no one knew they were cuprian...why?? because you can''t tell by color


    Now here..this stone sure is glowy and neon..acutally the finest paraiba color looks like to me..set in 18K gold..wow



    hmmm..sure looks glowy and neon...ahh...to bad..it''s not a paraiba but a blue apatite..wait...but...I could have sworn



    kia 5.jpg
     
  17. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    Many of the original batalha mine paraibas were cuprain with a black copper bearing schrol coating..if I was to take that black tourmaline coating/rind and have it cabbed then throw it up on here and say..."look it''s a paraiba"..no one would believe me..ahhh..but it''s copper bearing..ohh..but it''s black..not neon..not glowy...you can''t tell by looking at a tourmaline wheter it''s cuprian or not...remember IRON and COPPER both produce the same color in tourmalines!!!!!!..still trying to find that pic of that scissor cut afghan that is glowy and neon...but it''s only an afghan..no copper..none...but it''s glowy/neon...hmmm
     
  18. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    You would be surprised at how many tourmalines are actually getting there color from iron and not copper and how many not neon or not glowy tourmalines are actually getting there color from copper
     
  19. brandy_z28
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  20. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    wow..brandy..that sure is some stone..want to go in halfsee''s on it..LOL
     
  21. brandy_z28
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by brandy_z28 » Feb 19, 2010
    hmmm...that is something to ponder! Even if I did go in with just half I''d be a single lady! [​IMG]
     
  22. LD
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    by LD » Feb 19, 2010
    Mmmmm Crasru - I wouldn''t buy that even if it were saturated in copper! Having copper in its makeup is not the be all and end all. You need to look for (not in any particular order):-

    1. Neon colour - it MUST glow in ALL lights (especially dim lighting conditions) - people will say they have a neon PT but I''ve literally seen a handful. They''re much much much more rarer than you think. Neon means it literally screams colour at you - and in fact looks too good to be true. Almost false looking.
    2. Copper - to be a Paraiba Tourmaline (and for you to pay PT prices) it must have copper.
    3. Clarity
    4. Size
    5. Cut - many are cut poorly to preserve weight.
    6. Price - if it''s cheap, there''ll be a reason. A good PT commands serious amounts of money.

    We had a debate on this forum a while ago about the neon qualities and I took these photos to show how they should perform under electric light and then when put in shade. You can see the results below.

    Some of the rings on my hand, I would honestly say don''t meet Paraiba standards but are very nice Cuprian Tourmalines. Others I own, would certainly deserve the title (and have been certified as such).

    [​IMG]
     
  23. RockHugger
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    by RockHugger » Feb 19, 2010
    I have seen these sold on ebay from a guy in brazil. To me it is obviously apatite. Did you buy it from him? They were 200-600$ if I remember right. .
     
  24. Barrett
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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    Nice pics LD..i always enjoy looking at your cuprians..where is that old post of yours..is that the same one burberry posted aboce..yea..thats it..sweet!!!!..you see without having a cert. or a spec. run on them like Loving Diamonds did you can''t tell if they are paraiba/cuprian or not..sure some like what brandy posted you can make a pretty educated guess on..LOL..but with out that cert. or spec. then no way of knowing...just saying or thinking it looks "glowy" or "neon" doesn''t mean squat
     
  25. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    Rockhugger..so let me get this straight..you can tell what a stone is just by a picture?? Man..gemmologist have been trying to figure out how to do that for years..is that some kind of sixth sense? How do you do it if you don''t mind me asking..i sure would like to know. Can you tell from these next three pics which is which?
    Number 1??

    pppty1.jpg
     
  26. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    Number 2

    pppty2.jpg
     
  27. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    number 3

    pppty3.jpg
     
  28. Barrett
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Barrett » Feb 19, 2010
    I have been trying to figure out how to tell what a stone is just from pics for a few years now..still can't seem to get it..what is really hard is trying to tell which ones have certain elements in them that can't be seen with the naked eye[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  29. RockHugger
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    by RockHugger » Feb 19, 2010
    I am saying I have seen that pendent on ebay, and yes, I can tell its apatite. Thats why I didnt buy it. I cant tell all stones by a picture, but there are some stones that scream apatite, and that is one of them.

    Sence you got the sugarloaf and briolette off paraiba international, I would say paraiba. If they were on ebay I would have passed them off as apatite. Sellers rep means alot when looking at pictures.
     
  30. LD
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    by LD » Feb 19, 2010
    There's no way that number 2 is Apatite! It's more like a topaz or a piece of glass. Could be wrong of course!

    I'll have number 3 please [​IMG] In fact I've been looking for a sugarloaf like that for ages! It reminds me of Hemimorphite also.
     
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