Is HCA my deciding Factor between these 2 diamonds?

[ksterr]

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking to buy an engagement ring in the next few weeks. I'm working with a jeweler and he has offered me a few diamonds. All I have are specs, I don't get to see the diamonds unless I put down a $500 deposit for each.

Diamond 1 is $380 cheaper, but at this point price isn't really the issue for me. The weight is almost the same, would this mean the diamond with the lower HCA score wins? HCA shows that diamond as pretty much a perfect diamond.

Any comments would be appreciated, thanks!

My crieteria: VS2, F, EX/EX/EX, No Fluorescence, No culet, HCA < 2 - the diamonds below all fulfill this

Diamond 1:
Weight: 1.31 Carat
HCA = 1.4

Depth 61.8 %
Table 57 %
Crown Angle 35.0°
Crown Height 15.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 75%
Girdle Medium, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet None
Clouds / Crystals / Needle - Additional Pinpoints not shown

Diamond 2:
Weight 1.35 Carat
HCA = 2.0

Depth 62.1 %
Table 58 %
Crown Angle 36.0°
Crown Height 15.5%
Pavilion Angle 40.6°
Pavilion Depth 42.5%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet None
Feather / Cloud - No Additional Comments

 

[proto]

HCA is rejection tool, not selection tool.

What is your budget?

Its unlikely your jeweller has IS or ASET, so judge with your own eyes which one you prefer.

 

[WinkHPD]

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking to buy an engagement ring in the next few weeks. I'm working with a jeweler and he has offered me a few diamonds. All I have are specs, I don't get to see the diamonds unless I put down a $500 deposit for each.

Diamond 1 is $380 cheaper, but at this point price isn't really the issue for me. The weight is almost the same, would this mean the diamond with the lower HCA score wins? HCA shows that diamond as pretty much a perfect diamond.

Any comments would be appreciated, thanks!

My crieteria: VS2, F, EX/EX/EX, No Fluorescence, No culet, HCA < 2 - the diamonds below all fulfill this

Diamond 1:
Weight: 1.31 Carat
HCA = 1.4

Depth 61.8 %
Table 57 %
Crown Angle 35.0°
Crown Height 15.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 75%
Girdle Medium, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet None
Clouds / Crystals / Needle - Additional Pinpoints not shown

Diamond 2:
Weight 1.35 Carat
HCA = 2.0

Depth 62.1 %
Table 58 %
Crown Angle 36.0°
Crown Height 15.5%
Pavilion Angle 40.6°
Pavilion Depth 42.5%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet None
Feather / Cloud - No Additional Comments

There are good reasons why I like diamond #1 better. The HCA is not one of them.

While a 40.6 pavilion angle can be stunning, it can also be too shallow if there are large rounding issues in obtaining that average.

The table at 58% and the steep crown at 36 degrees are both outside my personal preferences and will likely have little dispersion. Add the longer lower halves at 80% and you will have smaller flashes of light and this also contributes to less dispersion. (colored light.)

All of that having been said, if he is willing to return both of your deposits if you do not like the diamonds then why not take a look at both of them and let YOUR eyes do the walking. Ask your jeweler to put them both into a slotted tray and to tell you nothing of which is which and let your eyes tell you what they like.

Wink

 

[ksterr]

My budget is around $13,000 - both diamonds are priced around there give or take ~$500.

I won't get to see both diamonds together, because the $500 is a non-refundable deposit. And I'm not sure if my jeweler is willing to bring both in. He tells me that he puts $500 out to bring the stone in as well.

 

[Dancing Fire]

My budget is around $13,000 - both diamonds are priced around there give or take ~$500.

I won't get to see both diamonds together, because the $500 is a non-refundable deposit. And I'm not sure if my jeweler is willing to bring both in. He tells me that he puts $500 out to bring the stone in as well.

That's BS! ... ..find yourself another jeweler!

 

[teobdl]

Tell him you see both or you walk. The deposit commits you to him. He should provide at least the courtesy of letting you choose a diamond with your eyes rather than buying on paper. Totally ridiculous.

 

[ksterr]

Hmmm, he's suppose to be a family friend lol. Hard for me to leave him now.

 

[teobdl]

He has gained your business from this friendship while you have gained nothing and he has restricted your ability to buy. You deserve better.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hmmm, he's suppose to be a family friend lol. Hard for me to leave him now.

Rule #1...never buy diamonds from a family friend...

 

[RandG]

My budget is around $13,000 - both diamonds are priced around there give or take ~$500.

I won't get to see both diamonds together, because the $500 is a non-refundable deposit. And I'm not sure if my jeweler is willing to bring both in. He tells me that he puts $500 out to bring the stone in as well.

Most likely, your jeweler does not own the stones and is bringing them in to show you, charging you this "deposit" for his trouble. It's pretty unseemly. Also, keep in mind, should you buy one of these stones, you're paying him a layer of margin, and for what? You may want to consider going direct, to someone who holds their own inventory, can offer you more options, and recognizes that spending time with you, exploring stones, are essential costs of doing business. Good luck and remember, you are in the driver seat.

 

[OoohShiny]

Hmmm, he's suppose to be a family friend lol. Hard for me to leave him now.

Someone demanding $500 non-refundable deposit to request a stone from a supplier (which is a no-cost or shipping-only cost, as I understand it) is no friend of yours.

I would say "thank you for your assistance but I have decided not to mix business with pleasure and am instead holding off for now."

Then you can shop at one of the approved vendors here and actually get pictures of the stone, get ASET- and Ideal-scope images, and be much more likely to get a good stone.

Don't let 'being nice' screw you out of a vast amount of money. I am too nice myself and have lost money that way. Don't do it yourself.

 

[ksterr]

Alright, thanks for the input guys. I will talk to him shortly and see if I can see both diamonds.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Alright, thanks for the input guys. I will talk to him shortly and see if I can see both diamonds.

Are they GIA graded stones?

 

[WinkHPD]

My budget is around $13,000 - both diamonds are priced around there give or take ~$500.

I won't get to see both diamonds together, because the $500 is a non-refundable deposit. And I'm not sure if my jeweler is willing to bring both in. He tells me that he puts $500 out to bring the stone in as well.

I am sorry, but that is pure unadulterated horse pucky.

Well, maybe not, where are you located? I live in the outer limits of the United States, a dark hole of "impossible to get there in a single flight" location known as Boise, Idaho. Even here in the hinterlands I get overnight shipping from New York, LA, and other major metropolitan areas. For a $10,000 diamond I am expecting to pay no more than $200 round trip, including a little something for my or my assistant's time to pick up the package from Fedex. So if you live in the United States and do not have to pay customs and then fight for a customs return, I stand by my original spewing of profanity.

Your vendor is wanting to be paid a profit whether or not you buy. To which I can only reply, Nice work if you can get it.

I was all set to be impressed with your vendor for agreeing to price match, but now I am squarely in the "Seriously?" column.

There are other vendors near you who will not be so selfish, I recommend you shop around. The advantage of seeing the two stones together is worth it for paying the shipping costs, and I mean costs, but not worth an approximate profit of $300 per stone to your vendor.

Sigh, and jewelers wonder why we are thought of right up there with used car salesmen.

Gag me! With or without a spoon.

Wink

 

[ksterr]

My budget is around $13,000 - both diamonds are priced around there give or take ~$500.

I won't get to see both diamonds together, because the $500 is a non-refundable deposit. And I'm not sure if my jeweler is willing to bring both in. He tells me that he puts $500 out to bring the stone in as well.

I am sorry, but that is pure unadulterated horse pucky.

Well, maybe not, where are you located? I live in the outer limits of the United States, a dark hole of "impossible to get there in a single flight" location known as Boise, Idaho. Even here in the hinterlands I get overnight shipping from New York, LA, and other major metropolitan areas. For a $10,000 diamond I am expecting to pay no more than $200 round trip, including a little something for my or my assistant's time to pick up the package from Fedex. So if you live in the United States and do not have to pay customs and then fight for a customs return, I stand by my original spewing of profanity.

Your vendor is wanting to be paid a profit whether or not you buy. To which I can only reply, Nice work if you can get it.

I was all set to be impressed with your vendor for agreeing to price match, but now I am squarely in the "Seriously?" column.

There are other vendors near you who will not be so selfish, I recommend you shop around. The advantage of seeing the two stones together is worth it for paying the shipping costs, and I mean costs, but not worth an approximate profit of $300 per stone to your vendor.

Sigh, and jewelers wonder why we are thought of right up there with used car salesmen.

Gag me! With or without a spoon.

Wink

I'm located in Toronto, Canada. So shipping back and forth is not as easy as in the states unfortunately.
But he was straight up and told me that he does not own the stone and has an associate that he works with. The $1000 deposit is essentially like purchasing the stone for my jeweler, I do get the $500 back if I decide not to take it and the stone sells.

Thanks for your inputs Wink, I'm going to give my jeweler a call now.

 

[OoohShiny]

I do get the $500 back if I decide not to take it and the stone sells.

Why is all the risk on you?

He's not purchasing the diamond, he's calling it in for inspection and can send it back if it's not wanted for a reasonable cost, as Wink highlights.

He is screwing you.

Walk away.

 

[ksterr]

He said he's bringing in diamond #2, for me to see. Diamond #1 is out for memo, someone else is interested?

I can compare Diamond #2 to what he has in stock, but it's not the same grade....most likely it'll be under what diamond #2 is.
I already gave the $500 from before, so I'm kind of stuck right now.

 

[teobdl]

You should be able to choose what he compares it to. Ask to see the reports of what he has in house. Or give him comparison critieria like this:

GIA Ex only
PA: 40.6-41.0
CA: 34-35.5
Table: 53-57.5
LGF: 75-80
Star: 50-55
Clarity, Color +/- 1 grade only
Size: +/- 0.2 cts
Girdle: thin to med
No or pointed culet
No or faint fluoro

 

[WinkHPD]

My budget is around $13,000 - both diamonds are priced around there give or take ~$500.

I won't get to see both diamonds together, because the $500 is a non-refundable deposit. And I'm not sure if my jeweler is willing to bring both in. He tells me that he puts $500 out to bring the stone in as well.

I am sorry, but that is pure unadulterated horse pucky.

Well, maybe not, where are you located? I live in the outer limits of the United States, a dark hole of "impossible to get there in a single flight" location known as Boise, Idaho. Even here in the hinterlands I get overnight shipping from New York, LA, and other major metropolitan areas. For a $10,000 diamond I am expecting to pay no more than $200 round trip, including a little something for my or my assistant's time to pick up the package from Fedex. So if you live in the United States and do not have to pay customs and then fight for a customs return, I stand by my original spewing of profanity.

Your vendor is wanting to be paid a profit whether or not you buy. To which I can only reply, Nice work if you can get it.

I was all set to be impressed with your vendor for agreeing to price match, but now I am squarely in the "Seriously?" column.

There are other vendors near you who will not be so selfish, I recommend you shop around. The advantage of seeing the two stones together is worth it for paying the shipping costs, and I mean costs, but not worth an approximate profit of $300 per stone to your vendor.

Sigh, and jewelers wonder why we are thought of right up there with used car salesmen.

Gag me! With or without a spoon.

Wink

I'm located in Toronto, Canada. So shipping back and forth is not as easy as in the states unfortunately.
But he was straight up and told me that he does not own the stone and has an associate that he works with. The $1000 deposit is essentially like purchasing the stone for my jeweler, I do get the $500 back if I decide not to take it and the stone sells.

Thanks for your inputs Wink, I'm going to give my jeweler a call now.

Ahh! That may explain a big part of the issue since he mas international foldera to deal with. Those customs people do like their pounds of flesh.

Since I know nothing of the intricacies of sending and returning diamonds from Canada I must now put your jeweler back in the "Might be a pretty good guy" category. I wish you well in your search and no, I would be very unlikely to expect the 2.50ct diamond to be worth the $500 to see. I just have too little respect for EGL of any stripe, but especially EGL Europe or Israel. They have simply proven themselves too many times to be absolutely horrible graders, at least if you are expecting them to be close to realistic. There are times though when they do bring a good product to the market at the right price, even if "misgraded". I just doubt that the chance of that is worth the $500 cost of that.

Wink

 

[ksterr]

Both are GIA Diamonds, I won't get to see the stone until Friday, takes a week to deliver according to my jeweler.
I'm assuming you would suggest me to spend another $500 and at least look at another stone of similar grade right?
Otherwise, I think what will most likely happen with me is that, I'll see diamond #2 and because it is already a pretty good diamond. I will most likely purchase it.