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Is "Eye Clean SI2" an oxymoron?

hunt7191

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Is there such a thing in GIA stones? Would you ever consider going SI2 on earrings?
 

Lynn B

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Date: 5/25/2010 8:46:51 PM
Author:hunt7191
Is there such a thing in GIA stones? Would you ever consider going SI2 on earrings?

An eyeclean SI2 is absolutely NOT an oxymoron!!!
I have a gorgeous AGS-0 2.36 RB in an e-ring that is an SI2 and totally eyeclean, verified by Richard Sherwood, an independent appraiser and active poster here on PS.
I'm sure GIA is similar!

And yes, I would absolutely consider WELL-CUT, EYECLEAN, SI2s for earrings, in fact... I have! That's a great way to get the most bang for your buck, IMHO.

Eyeclean SI2s ARE out there. You may just have to LOOK AROUND awhile, and choose carefully.
 

Samara83

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I''ve recently found some GIA diamonds between 2.5 to 3ct that are eye-clean SI2. Guess it depends, because I''ve also seen a few that are not eye-clean.
 

clgwli

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I have a pair of earrings that are SI1 and SI2. They aren't eyeclean by my standards and I wouldn't want them as a ring. However for earrings they are far enough away that you can't even see the black carbon. You'd have to come close enough to make me highly uncomfortable being in my personal space to see them though. So for earrings I take much lower than I would in a main stone.

I do believe SI2 and eye clean can co-exist. I've seen them while looking for earrings myself. I passed on them because I wanted higher color.
 

hunt7191

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That makes me feel a bit better : ) Looking at 1.75-2ct each for studs. My current studs are "i" in color and face up white so I am fine with that color...but they are VS2''s and I just can''t afford VS2''s in that size. Is the larger the diamond the more visible the inclusion? What is a proper way when I ask for someone to conduct a search for me with no black. Do I simply just say "eye clean" and they get the drift? Thanks!
 

LGK

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Yeah, it seems like the larger the diamond, the more visible the inclusion. I''d probably look for twinning wisps- the diamond LynnB has as her e-ring is a 2.3 ct (?or something like that) SI2 and has twinning wisps as the grade maker- and it is really really eye clean. I have an eye-clean SI1 1.22 ct and it really is eye clean from all angles including the side... it''s major inclusion is a feather. Basically non-black-carbon inclusions would be a good way to go, and it seems like if there''s a *lot* of smaller inclusions vs. one big one, it may be a little more likely to be an eye clean stone. So don''t be afraid of the diamonds with really, really marked up plots, basically.

You need to talk with your vendor about what you mean by eye clean. Do you mean from the side too? That isn''t automatically assumed since diamonds are graded top-down, and thus you can find VS clarity sometimes where you can see inclusions from the side. Do you mean you want to be able to scrutinize the stone from two inches away and not see anything? Or the more typical 8-10 inches? So be pretty specific when you talk to a vendor about what you mean by eye-clean.
 

John Pollard

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Date: 5/25/2010 9:03:17 PM
Author: hunt7191
That makes me feel a bit better : ) Looking at 1.75-2ct each for studs. My current studs are 'i' in color and face up white so I am fine with that color...but they are VS2's and I just can't afford VS2's in that size. Is the larger the diamond the more visible the inclusion? What is a proper way when I ask for someone to conduct a search for me with no black. Do I simply just say 'eye clean' and they get the drift? Thanks!
Long answer: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-eye-clean-definition-interpretation-and-taste.30483/ (tips for interacting with a seller on this topic).

Short answer: Every case is individually considered. The nature, size, position, relief and number of inclusions = the formula-for-clarity. Every diamond is its own formula. A diamond with a big off-center booger-black crystal could be SI2 eye-visible, and another diamond with several non-dense clouds and transparent crystals could be perfectly eye-clean. There are eye-clean I1s...and VS2s with eye-visible characteristics.

Ironically1, the judgments are all made under magnification, not with the unaided eye,
Ironically2, The implications for an SI2 of 0.15ct will be different than the implications for an SI2 of 5.00ct.

Can you believe that was the short answer?
 

kenny

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So, when you buy large diamonds just get VVS clarity.

... uh oh... here comes that lynch mob again . . . gotta go . . . later . . .
 

dreamer_dachsie

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To me, for earings they only need to be eye clean at like 12 inches. If anyone I know is getting closer than that, they better be going in for a kiss, not inspecting my earrings.
 

slg47

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Date: 5/25/2010 9:54:30 PM
Author: dreamer_d
To me, for earings they only need to be eye clean at like 12 inches. If anyone I know is getting closer than that, they better be going in for a kiss, not inspecting my earrings.
HA!
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Date: 5/25/2010 9:58:16 PM
Author: John Pollard
Pendant... 24 inches?
ha! Only my husband is allowed to inspect my pendant at that distance.
 

zhuzhu

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Date: 5/25/2010 9:38:26 PM
Author: John Pollard
Date: 5/25/2010 9:03:17 PM



Ironically2, The implications for an SI2 of 0.15ct will be different than the implications for an SI2 of 5.00ct.

Let me guess. The inclusions in SI2 for stones less than 0.5 ct will be less visible than inclusions for SI2 in 5.00 ct, right? (inclusions proportionally bigger with size of diamond).
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 5/25/2010 9:41:23 PM
Author: kenny
So, when you buy large diamonds just get VVS clarity.

... uh oh... here comes that lynch mob again . . . gotta go . . . later . . .
or wait til you turn 50.
 

John Pollard

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Date: 5/25/2010 11:19:18 PM
Author: zhuzhu

Date: 5/25/2010 9:38:26 PM
Author: John Pollard

Ironically2, The implications for an SI2 of 0.15ct will be different than the implications for an SI2 of 5.00ct.
Let me guess. The inclusions in SI2 for stones less than 0.5 ct can be less visible than inclusions for SI2 in 5.00 ct, right? (inclusions proportionally bigger with size of diamond).
Yes, with slight rewording. Every diamond is an individual case, but you nailed the principal.
 

yssie

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I found a 2.7 SI2 with an honest but prongable main inclusion, and I'm thrilled. That's another thing to consider - a tight group of crystals or something near the girdle is a good find for a stone that'll be set.
 

FB.

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I have a couple of "eye clean" SI2's - eye clean meaning that the inclusions are not visible to a casual observer in normal conditions (although I can see them at 6-12 inches if I get the light and angle correct).

One is a 1.02ct round, with twinning wisps and feathers as the grade setters. The wisps and feathers are under the table (mounted in a pendant, so no durability risk) and the inclusions are whitish and blend in with the light return. The only way to see them is to stand near a window to allow light to enter the stone from the side, which then "lights up" the wisps and feathers into shiny white streaks that can be seen at about 12 inches.

The other is a 1.13ct pear, with crystals only. The stone contains maybe a dozen small black crystals scattered throughout, which are too small to be seen, plus one large black crystal - you know; the big scary black "dalmation spot" type
.
However, the cutter cleverly (or luckily?) placed the large crystal under the meeting point of four facets, meaning that you can only see 1/4 of the crystal from any facet, therefore "virtually" making the crystal disappear.

I should add, though, that many SI2 are not eye clean and many more are borderline eye clean. Clouds, wisps and feathers are harder to see as they're usually whitish, but SI-clarity clouds in particular can make the whole stone hazy.
Eye clean depends on your definition of how far away, whether you plan to view the stone from the side and how hard you'll search for the inclusions.
For a 1ct stone, if you want no visible inclusions from any angle at any distance, you'd better go VVS2 or higher clarity. If you're happy with no inclusions visible to a casual observer at twelve inches from the top, then SI1 will usually be fine.
 

Phoenix

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I have an eye-clean Si2, at least it is to me. The main inclusions are twining wisps, crystals and feathers. The crystals are mainly white/ clear and you cannot see them unless you use a loupe. The twining wisps and main feather are even hard to see with a loupe. I think I posted before that it was a good two years or so before I could see the twinning wisps (which are clear) and the main feather on the edge - and this was under extremely bright jewellery shop lighting.
 

Bella_mezzo

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eyeclean SI2s can represent a tremendous value and are ideal IMO for earrings and pendants.
 

hunt7191

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You all are amazing. Thank you! I can''t believe that I didn''t even have to pay for this advice!
I had an SI1 stone for my first ER and it had a black crystal right off center and every time I looked at my hand that is all I could see. I upgraded 5 years later and still bought an SI1 but it had an extra facet at the side where the prong is and is a stunner. I never realized how important it is to have a cutter maximize the stone based on where they "place" the inclusions in the cut. I always thought it was some sort of a machine that you plopped a stone in and voila...a sparkly cut diamond came out and where the inclusions lay was a guess. What a tedious but fascinating job. I guess that truly using the "eyes" of your jeweler to find the stone is the way to go!
 

John Pollard

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Is Eye Clean SI2 an oxymoron?

Among strictly graded diamonds the short answer is "no." There are even eye-clean I1s.

As you descend from VS to I the frequency drops: VS2 is nearly always eye-clean with rare exceptions. I1 nearly always has visible characteristic(s) with rare exceptions.
As you increase in size the frequency drops: If you have two-dozen 0.50ct SI2s it's probable more of those will be eye-clean than your collection of two-dozen 3.00ct SI2s.

Date: 5/26/2010 10:08:30 AM
Author: hunt7191

I never realized how important it is to have a cutter maximize the stone based on where they 'place' the inclusions in the cut.
In my experience this kind of careful planning is how eye-clean I1s can be achieved.
 

John Pollard

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Some people love high clarity for personal reasons. There are also people who seek "birthmarks" in their diamonds, preferring visible inclusions. Viva la difference.

As for pricing - it's an interesting system isn't it? -

A 1ct F VS2 fine-make is appx $8000. 1ct F I1 appx $4000. 1ct F VVS1 upwards of $12,000... Yet it's possible that all three could appear identical to the naked eye.
In reality a borderline VS2 should cost less, and a rare/clean I1 should cost more than the grade average, but they will still fall in the assigned value-class & category.

This is why cut quality is so-promoted among enthusiasts: Improving to the highest levels of cut quality costs nowhere near as much, with visible results.
 
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