Is basic chivalry/courtesy dead?

[janinegirly]

Warning, vent ahead!

Yesterday I had an experience that made me wonder what was wrong with *some* people or in my case, young males. I was on my usual train home--it was packed. So I stood 75% of the way with my packed heavy Wholefoods bag. Normally I would stand the whole way (40mins) but I had a 1 mile walk ahead of me (since I walk home when I can from the station) so when a seat opened up, I walked over. There was a young man, maybe 19, stretched out. He looked at me and didn't move.
I quietly said "excuse me" and motioned that I would like to sit. He stared for about 10 lonnnng seconds, exhaled audibly and begrudgingly moved his legs over. WTH???? What is wrong with people? He was well dressed, this wasn't some young man who had some unfortunate circumstance that led him to not know common courtesy. There have also been a few times when I have also seen men not get up for pregnant women or wait till the last minute (more often I will see a woman give her seat up or offer). Maybe chivalry from strangers really is dead.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I don't know if chivalry is dead, but I think people are horrifyingly rude on public transportation. I remember last year I broke my arm and got on a packed train. I had to stand but I couldn't hold the bar and my bags. I finally had to loudly announce to a younger guy "Excuse me, I have a broken arm, may I please sit down?" after 10 minutes of being thrashed around and almost falling several times. People have no manners and sadly I see it being men more than women in these instances. I've seen middle-aged men do it too. Reading their Financial Times is more important than an eldery, injured or pregnant person riding the train safely. And to me it's a safety issue. If someone fell on the train they could hurt themselves and others.

I'm so glad I don't have to ride the T anymore!

 

[Lauren8211]

I''m shocked at how frequently people are rude to others in public. Seriously shocked. People have become selfish to a ridiculous degree.

I can tell because any time I hold the door for someone, I get a sincere smile and a really meaningful "Thank you!" as if it was a shock to them that a stranger considered someone other than themselves.

 

[atroop711]

Date: 3/3/2010 9:50:27 AM
Author:janinegirly
Warning, vent ahead!


Yesterday I had an experience that made me wonder what was wrong with *some* people or in my case, young males. I was on my usual train home--it was packed. So I stood 75% of the way with my packed heavy Wholefoods bag. Normally I would stand the whole way but I had a 1 mile walk ahead of me (since I walk home when I can from the station) so when a seat opened up, I walked over. There was a young man, maybe 19, stretched out. He looked at me and didn''t move.

I quietly said ''excuse me'' and motioned that I would like to sit. He stared for about 10 lonnnng seconds, exhaled audibly and begrudgingly moved his legs over. WTH???? What is wrong with people? He was well dressed, this wasn''t some young man who had some unfortunate circumstance that led him to not know common courtesy. There have also been a few times when I have also seen men not get up for pregnant women or wait till the last minute (more often I will see a woman give her seat up or offer). Maybe chivalry from strangers really is dead.

this is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. As a mother I practice what I preach and I''m always teaching my 3 dc to do right. We live in NYC and take the bus every day. When I''m in a seat and I see a senior, a pg woman, a mom holding a small child, a person with a cane or crutch, ect, I offer my seat regardless of my own disability. My 10 yr old does the same (I''m so proud of her) and even my almost 6 yr old will offer her seat and hop on my lap.

It kills me that we see these men in suits, early 20-30s sit there and don''t give a damn about a very pregnant women standing in a packed bus. I think to myself...did your mother ever teach you manners? I also think to myself, would you let your mother stand? Shame on you.

I have observed in NYC (and this is my observation not trying to start a debate or argument) the majority to offer a seat are the young black and hispanic men from the inner city areas (which I live VERY close to). They have been the first ones to get up and offer a seat to me or any other woman. They may be poor but were raised with respect toward women, elderly and children. Now those Wall St suits...NEVER ONCE during my 3 pregnancies did they ever give up a seat. Not even when I got on the bus with a body brace after back surgery would the "suits" give up their seat. I''ve had elderly men (80+ yrs old) offer me their seats but I do realize they are from a diff. generation which taught respect and courtesy. I also think the women on our NYC buses don''t offer other pregnant women their seats either. DRIVES ME NUTS. As a mom of 2 girls and a son..they will always be taught to treat others as they would want to be treated.

 

[CNOS128]

Atroop, I''ve made the same observations about which people are willing to give up their seats on subways and buses in NY. And I usually attribute it to their mothers.

I also hate it when I see women struggling to carry their baby strollers up the stairs in the subway station, and everyone''s passing by them without offering to help. But it makes me feel warm and fuzzy when someone does help (and I do offer if I''m not carrying something heavy, or in a hurry).

 

[janinegirly]

Yea maybe chivalry is too strong a word. I should have said just common sense, decency and concern for you fellow man /woman. I've had a few friends comment on the pregoo thing and experienced it myself. When I took the subwary, there were times men would pretend then didn't see me but women would look sympathetically my way and offer their seat. I just assumed ...hey, it's the subway, what do you expect. Then I took a bus full of well to do 20-30somethings (it was headed to a town full of these types) and it was packed...I waddled down...eyes darted away until finally a woman got up. I guess in my experience women have been more accomodating, or maybe it was just because they were ones who were pregnant recently!

And in my experience yesterday it was an EMPTY seat. Is it really so difficult to move your legs without making a face, stalling and basically having a temper tantrum?

atroop: is this a NYC thing or something... ugh.

 

[janinegirly]

Date: 3/3/2010 10:01:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5
I''m shocked at how frequently people are rude to others in public. Seriously shocked. People have become selfish to a ridiculous degree.

I can tell because any time I hold the door for someone, I get a sincere smile and a really meaningful ''Thank you!'' as if it was a shock to them that a stranger considered someone other than themselves.

elledizzy, on the flip side my DH does make a habit of stepping out of the way and fully opening doors for those coming behind and he says he''s amazed at how often people stroll through without barely a head nod let alone a thank you. I''m one of those who says "thank you" profusely, because honestly it is not something you can take for granted anymore.

 

[somethingshiny]

I''ve actually never been on public transportation, so I can''t relate at all to your example. But, in my experience, basic courtesy is not dead. I''d say 80% of the time I walk into a store, the person ahead of me holds the door. We give each other the good carts or the carts with seats if there is a person with a small child. We STOP at cross walks and even in the middle of the road is someone is trying to cross. We wait in line without getting huffy. We move to the right in stair wells and halls to let others pass. I had a perfect stranger hear me talking to JT about filling his pinata. The man came over and discussed always having a pinata at his birthdays as a kid and told us the best candy and toys for one. Perhaps it''s because we live in a smaller town. You''re GOING to run into these people again so maybe they''re on their best behavior?

However, of the people who don''t follow the above examples, the majority are young men. This is surprising to me because DH''s buddies wouldn''t dream of not holding a door or offering a seat. I don''t know why the sudden change came in just a few years.

I did notice that on our trip to Chicago over the weekend no one would offer a pregnant lady or a lady with a small dancing toddler to cut ahead in the restroom line. In my hometown, if a child walks into the bathroom, the child has the right of way. And if a preggo walks in, all the other ladies back up to let her pass.

 

[Haven]

I would have been tempted to sit on his legs.

People seem to be so absorbed in their own worlds that they don''t even notice when they''re being discourteous. It is pretty bad on public transportation, especially during regular commuter times. I think people are so into their routine they forget that they aren''t alone.

Being a rude driver is just as bad an offense, in my opinion. Tailgaters, cutting people off, talking on your cell phone or texting and thus paying less attention to the road, all extremely rude (and dangerous) on the road.

 

[Lilac]

NYC subways are the worst. I've also seen the same things that atroop has. And for me, it's usually the 80 year old man offering to give up his seat for me (which I obviously don't take!!) but the businessmen or young kids can't manage to get up for a pregnant or elderly woman.

ETA: I was hit in the face with a door three times within five minutes yesterday. People just don't pay attention to their surroundings or they're just simply rude and don't care.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 3/3/2010 10:19:37 AM
Author: janinegirly

Date: 3/3/2010 10:01:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5
I''m shocked at how frequently people are rude to others in public. Seriously shocked. People have become selfish to a ridiculous degree.

I can tell because any time I hold the door for someone, I get a sincere smile and a really meaningful ''Thank you!'' as if it was a shock to them that a stranger considered someone other than themselves.

elledizzy, on the flip side my DH does make a habit of stepping out of the way and fully opening doors for those coming behind and he says he''s amazed at how often people stroll through without barely a head nod let alone a thank you. I''m one of those who says ''thank you'' profusely, because honestly it is not something you can take for granted anymore.

I would be offended if I stopped to hold a door for someone and didn''t get any sort of thank you! That''s terrible!

 

[princesss]

This drives me nuts. I''m a compulsive seat-giver-upper. Unless I''m having heart problems (which, knock on wood, is rare these days) I give up my seat right away. It drives me nuts to see guys that should know better stay seated.

 

[atroop711]

Date: 3/3/2010 10:19:37 AM
Author: janinegirly

Date: 3/3/2010 10:01:11 AM

Author: elledizzy5

I''m shocked at how frequently people are rude to others in public. Seriously shocked. People have become selfish to a ridiculous degree.


I can tell because any time I hold the door for someone, I get a sincere smile and a really meaningful ''Thank you!'' as if it was a shock to them that a stranger considered someone other than themselves.

elledizzy, on the flip side my DH does make a habit of stepping out of the way and fully opening doors for those coming behind and he says he''s amazed at how often people stroll through without barely a head nod let alone a thank you. I''m one of those who says ''thank you'' profusely, because honestly it is not something you can take for granted anymore.

I''m so with you on this too. I find it so rude if I take the time to hold a door for you, a thank you is too hard for you to say. How about a nod? or a smile? My own daughter says to me I held the door and that lady didn''t say thank you. I just tell her well sweetie, some ppl are just so rude but I''m proud of you

 

[princesss]

Date: 3/3/2010 10:29:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 3/3/2010 10:19:37 AM
Author: janinegirly

Date: 3/3/2010 10:01:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5
I''m shocked at how frequently people are rude to others in public. Seriously shocked. People have become selfish to a ridiculous degree.

I can tell because any time I hold the door for someone, I get a sincere smile and a really meaningful ''Thank you!'' as if it was a shock to them that a stranger considered someone other than themselves.

elledizzy, on the flip side my DH does make a habit of stepping out of the way and fully opening doors for those coming behind and he says he''s amazed at how often people stroll through without barely a head nod let alone a thank you. I''m one of those who says ''thank you'' profusely, because honestly it is not something you can take for granted anymore.

I would be offended if I stopped to hold a door for someone and didn''t get any sort of thank you! That''s terrible!

Okay, random question: how many times do you say thank you when walking through a double set of doors? Like at the mall where there are inner and outer doors? I try to say thank you the first time and find a way to rush ahead and get the second door, but sometimes that doesn''t work, and I end up feeling really silly saying thank you twice for the same thing in under a minute.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 3/3/2010 10:35:04 AM
Author: princesss

Date: 3/3/2010 10:29:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 3/3/2010 10:19:37 AM
Author: janinegirly

Date: 3/3/2010 10:01:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5
I''m shocked at how frequently people are rude to others in public. Seriously shocked. People have become selfish to a ridiculous degree.

I can tell because any time I hold the door for someone, I get a sincere smile and a really meaningful ''Thank you!'' as if it was a shock to them that a stranger considered someone other than themselves.

elledizzy, on the flip side my DH does make a habit of stepping out of the way and fully opening doors for those coming behind and he says he''s amazed at how often people stroll through without barely a head nod let alone a thank you. I''m one of those who says ''thank you'' profusely, because honestly it is not something you can take for granted anymore.

I would be offended if I stopped to hold a door for someone and didn''t get any sort of thank you! That''s terrible!

Okay, random question: how many times do you say thank you when walking through a double set of doors? Like at the mall where there are inner and outer doors? I try to say thank you the first time and find a way to rush ahead and get the second door, but sometimes that doesn''t work, and I end up feeling really silly saying thank you twice for the same thing in under a minute.

Hahaha!

I say it twice actually, the first is a sincere "Thank you!"

The second is more of an under-the-breath "..thanks" so they have been acknowledged, but its not like a super emphatic one.

 

[princesss]

Date: 3/3/2010 10:37:04 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 3/3/2010 10:35:04 AM
Author: princesss

Date: 3/3/2010 10:29:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 3/3/2010 10:19:37 AM
Author: janinegirly

Date: 3/3/2010 10:01:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5
I''m shocked at how frequently people are rude to others in public. Seriously shocked. People have become selfish to a ridiculous degree.

I can tell because any time I hold the door for someone, I get a sincere smile and a really meaningful ''Thank you!'' as if it was a shock to them that a stranger considered someone other than themselves.

elledizzy, on the flip side my DH does make a habit of stepping out of the way and fully opening doors for those coming behind and he says he''s amazed at how often people stroll through without barely a head nod let alone a thank you. I''m one of those who says ''thank you'' profusely, because honestly it is not something you can take for granted anymore.

I would be offended if I stopped to hold a door for someone and didn''t get any sort of thank you! That''s terrible!

Okay, random question: how many times do you say thank you when walking through a double set of doors? Like at the mall where there are inner and outer doors? I try to say thank you the first time and find a way to rush ahead and get the second door, but sometimes that doesn''t work, and I end up feeling really silly saying thank you twice for the same thing in under a minute.

Hahaha!

I say it twice actually, the first is a sincere ''Thank you!''

The second is more of an under-the-breath ''..thanks'' so they have been acknowledged, but its not like a super emphatic one.

Okay. That''s what I do, too. It''s just one of those situations that puzzles me for some odd reason.

 

[meresal]

You know, I travel on public transportation every day, (For the record, it is all working professionals that use the park'n'ride to commute downtown)... I actually see less compassion from other women than I get from men.

I see guys giving up their seats almost everyday, but it takes the women until the very last second and a HUGE sigh to scoot over to the next seat, when they are blocking the only one left.

Which I think is absolutely ridiculous!

ETA: Everytime someone opens a door I say thank you...
My biggest pet peeve is the lack of elevator courtesy in the world. Don't stand at the opening until you see that there is no one on the elevator trying to get off... and don't walk onto an elevator BEFORE the people that need to have done so!!!

 

[kama_s]

Not just NYC. Happens very well here in Toronto as well. And it bugs me to no end. My husban can''t understand why it bugs me so - he tells me the sooner I realize the world isn''t a perfect place, the happier I''ll be. But I disagree - if we all allow people to get away with doing crap, it''s just going to breed another generation of the same or worse.

Rarely do people hold doors open here, even when I''m right behind them. There is just no courtesy left. I guess I do my part, as do my husband and brother. When someone does hold the door open for me, I very audibly say ''THANK YOU!'', just so they and people around know that''s the nice/right thing to do.

I don''t mean to threadjack, but I wanted to share something I did last week. This mid 20''s girl and her boyfriend were walking down next to my building, smack in the middle of downtown. Both had Starbucks drinks in their hand. She finished hers and TOSSED THE PLASTIC CUP ON THE STREET

I picked it up and walked up behind her and asked her if she dropped it by mistake

since the street didn''t look like a trash can to me. What is up with that?! She looked like a nice, well dressed girl.

 

[kama_s]

Date: 3/3/2010 10:35:04 AM
Author: princesss

Date: 3/3/2010 10:29:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 3/3/2010 10:19:37 AM
Author: janinegirly

Date: 3/3/2010 10:01:11 AM
Author: elledizzy5
I''m shocked at how frequently people are rude to others in public. Seriously shocked. People have become selfish to a ridiculous degree.

I can tell because any time I hold the door for someone, I get a sincere smile and a really meaningful ''Thank you!'' as if it was a shock to them that a stranger considered someone other than themselves.

elledizzy, on the flip side my DH does make a habit of stepping out of the way and fully opening doors for those coming behind and he says he''s amazed at how often people stroll through without barely a head nod let alone a thank you. I''m one of those who says ''thank you'' profusely, because honestly it is not something you can take for granted anymore.

I would be offended if I stopped to hold a door for someone and didn''t get any sort of thank you! That''s terrible!

Okay, random question: how many times do you say thank you when walking through a double set of doors? Like at the mall where there are inner and outer doors? I try to say thank you the first time and find a way to rush ahead and get the second door, but sometimes that doesn''t work, and I end up feeling really silly saying thank you twice for the same thing in under a minute.

I always say it twice. The first is a ''Thanks!'' the second is generally a ''Thank you!''.

 

[geckodani]

I was coming in from lunch a coupla months back, with my purse, the bag holding my lunch, and a beverage. While trying to open the door, two guys (middle aged, not punk kids or anything) watched me struggle, and then WALKED THROUGH THE DOOR while I WAS HOLDING IT open. I was stunned.

Meh.

My DH is ridiculously chivalrous. Opens the car door, doors for other people, gives up seats etc. My hypothetical children will be taught the same. I remember once at the mall I held the door for a woman that was juggling a bunch of bags and a stroller, and she was stunned. I got the most effusive thanks, and I started to wonder how many times she''d had people just walk right by. I don''t get it.

 

[somethingshiny]

I just thought of an over the top show of chivalry. JT was about 6 months old. I had gone full-on grocery shopping and my cart was overflowing, JT was in the seat. As I rolled my cart across the cross walk, a case of soda fell off and slid several yards away from me. As I was trying to figure out how I was going to set my cart somewhere, take JT out, run after the soda and bring it back--a man put out his hands to the other vehicles to stop all of them, another man ran to the soda and a lady stood by me and my cart. Three complete strangers worked together to help me and all without having to say a word.

There are still lots of good and decent people out there.

 

[janinegirly]

shiny-where do you live? So I know where to move to..haha

 

[sunnyd]

I ride the bus everyday, and I am just amazed at how rude people are. I''ve seen a 9-month pregnant woman get on a packed bus and a woman gave up her seat because none of the men got up. People think that their bags deserve a seat when there are people standing right in front of them. People grudgingly move when a wheelchair is getting on. It''s just horrendous.

 

[somethingshiny]

janine~ I live smack dab in the midwest of nowhere. My town has about 7500 people. When people say they''re going to "town," they mean here. Most of the surrounding towns have fewer than 1000 people, many of them have fewer than 500. Small towns definitely have a different atmosphere than larger towns and the people seem to be more aware of each other.

 

[Haven]

I just told DH about this thread and he reminded me of something that just happened the other day.

Our library is in the downtown area of our city, so you often have to walk a little bit from the library back to your car with books in hand. The other day I took out a lot of books and forgot my canvas bag, so I was crossing a street with a stack of twelve books piled in my arms. The woman who was stopped at the red light hadn''t noticed me walking in the crosswalk because she was too busy sipping her coffee, and she was creeping her car forward, so I stopped in the middle of the street to wait for her to notice me because I didn''t want to get hit.

Well, it took her a bit to notice me, and by the time she did the "Don''t Walk" sign was flashing, and her light was about to turn green.

Once she stopped moving forward I started to cross in front of her car, at which point she starting honking her horn at me repeatedly because she was *about* to get a green light. I slowed down just a bit, smiled at her over my stack of books, and kept walking. It was so rude.

 

[rierie26]

It''s not just the younger set that''s rude. I''ve seen some 30 -40 year old d-bags on transit too. I''ve noticed during rush hour it''s the 30-yr old-ish guys in their nice work clothes that are the worst. They''re pushy, won''t give up a seat to someone who needs it, will let the door slam on your face even though you''re right behind them and don''t get that their man-purse doesn''t need the extra seat. What makes me laugh is that during happy hour or at night after work hours, these are the same guys that try to act all nice and hit on you. It''s like, "Hello! I''ve seen you be a jerk to people you don''t know. You''re not getting anywhere near my bits."

I totally think it''s the way they were brought up. Mommy and Daddy were able to teach their precious child that they were a prince or princess and the world revolved around them, but NEGLECTED to teach them basic manners.

Sorry, just got off of transit.

 

[Lilac]

This thread reminded me of something that happened a couple weeks ago. DH and I went out for pizza one night and he went to go get our food while I saved a table. I took one far away from the door because with these 20 degree winters it''s FREEZING when you''re sitting right near the door! I was sitting there for a while and DH kept bringing food to our table as it was ready and I noticed an elderly couple walk in together (they were probably in their 80s). They were adorable. There were 3 tables left in the pizza store - two were near the cold air by the door and one was in the warm part of the store. The elderly couple started walking towards to table that was warm and a group of teenagers who were on line noticed this and RAN over to the warm table and grabbed it before the elderly couple could reach it. It was so SO sad to see the disappointment on the older woman''s face as she realized she and her husband would have to sit near the cold door now. I walked over to her and gave her the table DH and I were sitting at and we moved to one of the tables by the door. She tried to refuse to take it, but I felt that DH and I could handle the cold a whole lot better than she and her husband could and I would feel terrible eating in the warm air if I knew this elderly couple were sitting and freezing the whole time. We ate shivering and in our coats, but I wouldn''t have enjoyed my food if I knew this couple in their 80s were sitting there freezing and not enjoying their meal.

Before she and her husband left, she walked over to our table and told my husband, "you have such a sweet wife - people are so rude these days but she was so wonderful and gave up the table for us!"

DH was proud.

I wanted to yell at the teenagers who practically stole the table from the older couple. I really couldn''t believe they did that. Those are the kids that grow up to be rude, selfish jerks who stare at pregnant woman and elderly people on subways and refuse to give up their seats.

 

[janinegirly]

Date: 3/3/2010 11:27:06 AM
Author: Kitcha
It's not just the younger set that's rude. I've seen some 30 -40 year old d-bags on transit too. I've noticed during rush hour it's the 30-yr old-ish guys in their nice work clothes that are the worst. They're pushy, won't give up a seat to someone who needs it, will let the door slam on your face even though you're right behind them and don't get that their man-purse doesn't need the extra seat. What makes me laugh is that during happy hour or at night after work hours, these are the same guys that try to act all nice and hit on you. It's like, 'Hello! I've seen you be a jerk to people you don't know. You're not getting anywhere near my bits.'

I totally think it's the way they were brought up. Mommy and Daddy were able to teach their precious child that they were a prince or princess and the world revolved around them, but NEGLECTED to teach them basic manners.

Sorry, just got off of transit.

That line is pretty funny. Hope it wasn't NJ Transit in which case I sympathize.

I agree a lot has to do with upbrining, but alot also has to do with society as a whole and the the fact that there's little accountability/retribution for bad behavior in public. You know all the other people watching--no one actually pipes up and says something or even makes eye contact to show some support for whoever is the recepient of the bad behavior.l

 

[kenny]

Women and men are equal now.
Women are no longer seen as weak and helpless.
Did you see G.I. Jane?

Sure, when a person has a broken leg, is old or pregnant they should get extra consideration IMHO.

 

[sba771]

Date: 3/3/2010 10:11:27 AM
Author: TheBigT
Atroop, I''ve made the same observations about which people are willing to give up their seats on subways and buses in NY. And I usually attribute it to their mothers.

I also hate it when I see women struggling to carry their baby strollers up the stairs in the subway station, and everyone''s passing by them without offering to help. But it makes me feel warm and fuzzy when someone does help (and I do offer if I''m not carrying something heavy, or in a hurry).

This! I always try to help as I believe in karma. Once in Penn Station I was really struggling with a suitcase larger than I was, a man had already made it up the steps and he turned around and came back to help me. He was gone before I could even thank him, I was so overwhelmed at the time and so touched I almost cried because it is so rare sadly that people help.