Is an uncert. diamond o.k to buy??
- Thread starter ShopDiva
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diamondsbylauren
Brilliant_Rock
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On 4/21/2004 12:41:03 AM ShopDiva wrote:
My fiance' and I are looking to put a emerald cut in my ring and the jeweler showed me an uncert. 1.01 G-color SI1 stone for $4600. Is that ok or should we go for a GIA, EGL cert. diamond? How do you know if its really real?
-Confused!!----------------
Generally a 1.00carat diamond for $4600 should come with a GIA report.
It's not at all unreasonable to expect one in this price range- yet there's no need to imply that the jeweler is doing anything wrong.
A one carat in the $3500 range might be EGL certified.
A 1.00 for $2500 is usually not certified.
But$4600? Get a GIA
I hope you don't take my questions as me being mean, believe me I just want to bring a few things to your attention and I'm sure that's why you posted this thread: to get information.
I, too, recently bought a diamond and before I found this website I literally knew NOTHING about diamonds, just that they're pretty!There are so many educated people here who can help you really make the best decision when buying your diamond.
Just a few questions:
~When you are spending $4600, why WOULDN'T you get a diamond that is already certified?
~What makes this diamond so special that you are buying it instead of shopping for one that is already certified?
~Wouldn't you rather find a diamond, get it's specs and then come back here and have the experts give their opinions on it? Then you will know if the price is really worth it, and if the quality of the diamond makes it worth buying.
~What if you get this diamond appraised and it isn't what you thought it was. Can you return it for your money back?
The information you gave about the diamond isn't enough for the people here to help you know if it is worth $4600. You need to have all the numbers that would be on the certificate.
Please let us know what the outcome is!
~Sunseeker
I, too, recently bought a diamond and before I found this website I literally knew NOTHING about diamonds, just that they're pretty!There are so many educated people here who can help you really make the best decision when buying your diamond.
Just a few questions:
~When you are spending $4600, why WOULDN'T you get a diamond that is already certified?
~What makes this diamond so special that you are buying it instead of shopping for one that is already certified?
~Wouldn't you rather find a diamond, get it's specs and then come back here and have the experts give their opinions on it? Then you will know if the price is really worth it, and if the quality of the diamond makes it worth buying.
~What if you get this diamond appraised and it isn't what you thought it was. Can you return it for your money back?
The information you gave about the diamond isn't enough for the people here to help you know if it is worth $4600. You need to have all the numbers that would be on the certificate.
Please let us know what the outcome is!
~Sunseeker
Yeah your right! Unfortunatley I also found this WEB-SITE after the fact. We pick the ring up tonight so I think I will have more questions to ask them. When he explained to me what an uncert. diamond was he made it seem like it wasn't a big deal, plus for a cert one it jumped up another 2 grand so it seemed ok. That is how I found this website; my mom had never heard of buying an uncert. diamond. Thanks guys, I'll let you know what happens!!
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Can't you just RUN
I would feel quite insulted by such pretense...
Not that they made any discount for the lack of cert (granted, it takes weeks to get that GIA word of approval). Can't they just imply that the shoppers are actually smart people?
diamondsbylauren
Brilliant_Rock
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I encourage you to make sure you get a MONEY BACK guarantee- especially if you are going to continue to educate yourself.
Having the GIA examine your daimond, and issue a report- that's what people mean when they say " GIA certifed"
It takes about 3-6 weeks and costs around $250 ( I think that's the "consumer" price)
SO, it's not really the case that a "certified" diamond should be an additional $2k.
A nicely cut G/SI1 for $4600 is a good deal- if the grade is correct.
The diamond he's trying to sell you could be sent to GIA for a couple hundred- of course, if the grade was not the seller is promising, then someone has egg on thier face.
A good reason to be conservative when grading ( hint- beware of any diamond without a GIA report claimed to be VVS)
I always try to give the benefit of the doubt- I know a lot of retail jewelers that are as honest as the day is long- But from the sound of what you're saying, the seller will not be happy about your new found education.
Having the GIA examine your daimond, and issue a report- that's what people mean when they say " GIA certifed"
It takes about 3-6 weeks and costs around $250 ( I think that's the "consumer" price)
SO, it's not really the case that a "certified" diamond should be an additional $2k.
A nicely cut G/SI1 for $4600 is a good deal- if the grade is correct.
The diamond he's trying to sell you could be sent to GIA for a couple hundred- of course, if the grade was not the seller is promising, then someone has egg on thier face.
A good reason to be conservative when grading ( hint- beware of any diamond without a GIA report claimed to be VVS)
I always try to give the benefit of the doubt- I know a lot of retail jewelers that are as honest as the day is long- But from the sound of what you're saying, the seller will not be happy about your new found education.
diamondsbylauren
Brilliant_Rock
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I'd say a better plan would be to ask them to get a diamond with a GIA report to show you.
Rank Amateur
Brilliant_Rock
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$2000 takes you from a G SI1 to a J SI2. I think the dealer is telling you in a backwards way how honestly he grades his own diamonds.
Run away.
R/A
p.s. Say "GIA lab report" rather than "GIA certified".
Run away.
R/A
p.s. Say "GIA lab report" rather than "GIA certified".
Well, I picked the ring up today, when I confronted them about feeling mis-informed about the certification they assured me that they wouldn't let a stone come into their store if they didn't feel it upheld to their quality check blah blah.. I spent an hour there discussing and examining the stone through their microscopes and looking through loops. They said I have 3 days to return the stone and get my money back and 30 days to exchange. My fiance' called his friend that works at a jeweler and he said that stores will often get diamonds that are uncert. to keep the cost down for consumers; he is going to have his boss look at the diamond for us (appraise) so we have another opinion. I admit it does look quite stunning, but it will be nice to have another un-biased opinion from an appraiser.
I'll keep you updated!
Thanks, Sarah
I'll keep you updated!
Thanks, Sarah
diamondsbylauren
Brilliant_Rock
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I'm all for giving the retail jewelr the benefit of the doubt- and it's correct the vast majority of diamonds sold are not accompanied by a GIA report.
But to put these facts into context- how many 1.00 emerald cut diamonds for $4600 have been sold without a GIA or EGL reprt?-I'd say a large percentage of 1.00's in this price range DO come with GIA or EGL reports..
Generally, cutters do not sell G/SI1 1.00 stones without a GIA report.
It's not a question of trust of the jeweler specifically- but rather industry practice.
But to put these facts into context- how many 1.00 emerald cut diamonds for $4600 have been sold without a GIA or EGL reprt?-I'd say a large percentage of 1.00's in this price range DO come with GIA or EGL reports..
Generally, cutters do not sell G/SI1 1.00 stones without a GIA report.
It's not a question of trust of the jeweler specifically- but rather industry practice.
Nicrez
Ideal_Rock
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Also I was told that to certify personally can be $500 of so (not sure if this was specific to the carat range or stone I was looking at (saw some uncerted, freshly cut stones), but even the cutters didn't dare offer to sell until I saw the GIA or EGL certs!
This may be very very old school, and he may NOT be trying to fool you, but jewelers have a discount and time advantage over a regular joe. When I asked how long GIA could take, they said anywhere from 4-5 months. When the cutter was sending a stone, it took under a month, and trust me, he DID NOT ay $500 for the cert!
Also, if you have three days, I would request that they provide you with AT LEAST a Sarin report on the stone, and get it verified by an independant appraiser (who may do that report for you). Also, if you can rush, get it done within the 3 days and if the appraiser doesn't agree, then send that back like a hot potatoe.
To me $4k is a big chunk of cash. I would NEVER buy a 1ct uncertified diamond no matter HOW much the jeweler convinced me. It's like buying a car without a bill of sale. I trust people when they prove they are trust worthy, but to give anyone $4K without proof of their honesty, NO WAY!
I personally would give it back, regardless and start looking around for certed stones. In the end you will feel more secure and if it is passed down, traded up, sold later on, or even insured, there will be less contention.
Just a thought, but either way, good luck!!!
This may be very very old school, and he may NOT be trying to fool you, but jewelers have a discount and time advantage over a regular joe. When I asked how long GIA could take, they said anywhere from 4-5 months. When the cutter was sending a stone, it took under a month, and trust me, he DID NOT ay $500 for the cert!
Also, if you have three days, I would request that they provide you with AT LEAST a Sarin report on the stone, and get it verified by an independant appraiser (who may do that report for you). Also, if you can rush, get it done within the 3 days and if the appraiser doesn't agree, then send that back like a hot potatoe.
To me $4k is a big chunk of cash. I would NEVER buy a 1ct uncertified diamond no matter HOW much the jeweler convinced me. It's like buying a car without a bill of sale. I trust people when they prove they are trust worthy, but to give anyone $4K without proof of their honesty, NO WAY!
I personally would give it back, regardless and start looking around for certed stones. In the end you will feel more secure and if it is passed down, traded up, sold later on, or even insured, there will be less contention.
Just a thought, but either way, good luck!!!
hoorray
Ideal_Rock
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I think the issue her is not so much certified vs uncertified -- it is, are you getting what you are paying for and is the stone really what is it is being represented as?
A cert simply tells you what the stone is, from a well respected, objective source. A good, INDEPENDENT appraiser can do the same. In this case, the whole deal feels like he might be trying to upsell the stone, but you won't know that until you get the appraisal. Don't fool around with a semi-expert. Get a true, independant appraisal from someone with the right credentials -- not just another jeweler.
I think Nic is right about the higher cost and long wait time to get a stone certified as a consumer. Infact, I think I read that consumers have to go through a jeweler to send a stone to GIA, but I'm not sure of that. If you really want it to be certified (which is usually important for resell if you think you may want to do that down the road), have the jeweler do it -- even if you pay for it, and make the sale contingent on the results.
A cert simply tells you what the stone is, from a well respected, objective source. A good, INDEPENDENT appraiser can do the same. In this case, the whole deal feels like he might be trying to upsell the stone, but you won't know that until you get the appraisal. Don't fool around with a semi-expert. Get a true, independant appraisal from someone with the right credentials -- not just another jeweler.
I think Nic is right about the higher cost and long wait time to get a stone certified as a consumer. Infact, I think I read that consumers have to go through a jeweler to send a stone to GIA, but I'm not sure of that. If you really want it to be certified (which is usually important for resell if you think you may want to do that down the road), have the jeweler do it -- even if you pay for it, and make the sale contingent on the results.
Nicrez
Ideal_Rock
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Sorry, I have to say that I WOULD NOT pay for the certification of that stone! Why? If you don't like it, he can get $2K more, right. He said a certified stone goes for $2K more, then he should absorb that cost if he charges MORE for it.
Plus, if you get it certified, AND pay for the certification, you have essentially paid more for the stone than the "deal rate" and you might as well could have searched for a stone with more information and a cert for that same ending price after all is said and done.
That's my $.02... But then again, I a am hardcore bargainer and sometimes a little pitbull...
Plus, if you get it certified, AND pay for the certification, you have essentially paid more for the stone than the "deal rate" and you might as well could have searched for a stone with more information and a cert for that same ending price after all is said and done.
That's my $.02... But then again, I a am hardcore bargainer and sometimes a little pitbull...
hoorray
Ideal_Rock
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Nic -- I'm going to sic you on my next purchase! I'm sure to come out better off!
I guess I would consider paying for the cert as part of a negotiation if I really wanted it, but I certainly would not pay a higher price for the stone then. If I was getting the uncertified price (and really thought it was a deal) I might cough up the cert cost. It's all about what it comes out to at the end, and whether its fair. (or I guess in Nic's case, great!
)
I guess I would consider paying for the cert as part of a negotiation if I really wanted it, but I certainly would not pay a higher price for the stone then. If I was getting the uncertified price (and really thought it was a deal) I might cough up the cert cost. It's all about what it comes out to at the end, and whether its fair. (or I guess in Nic's case, great!
O.K., so I did some serious re-thinking on the stone and after doing more research we decided that we could get a better quality stone and more for our money online. This morning we went straight down to the jewler and took it back!! They are giving us our money back and removing the stone from my setting. It had 2 inclusions in it that I nor my fiance' were crazy about! So why waste any time having it appraised when essentially we both know we will not be happy with this diamond in the future. My fiance' was just trying to make me happy and that's awesome, but thanks to all of the good advice I got from all you guys I think It saved us from some serious debt and a stone we wouldn't have been happy with. THANKS!
Now my quest for a good quality emerald cut has begun. Has anyone made any diamond purchases on the internet? I like the grace period dirt cheap diamonds gives, has anyone worked with them? Let me know of any good sources!!
I'm glad I found this site!!
I would highly recommend Whiteflash. I am in the process of buying a ring from them and I am very pleased with the personal attention and the selection process.
I am working with Lesley. My requirements were very specific and she located the perfect stone for me at a terrific price. She arranged to have the stone shipped to them for inspection. They do not drop ship as some internet vendors do. When the stone arrived, it was inspected by Brian, who is a cutter, and he discussed it with me at length.
Then, at my request, the stone was shipped to an independent appraiser of my choice. He said it was a beautiful stone he verified all the information. If anything, it was better than described. I saw the stone there and it is everything I had hoped for.
The stone has now been shipped back to Whiteflash to be set in one of their beautiful platinum settings. At this point, I have not had to pay Whiteflash and will not be required to pay until the stone is set and ready to be shipped.
I live in Manhattan and shopped in the diamond district and elsewhere. I feel I have a good basis for comparison and I am very grateful to the people on Pricescope who recommended Whiteflash.
I am working with Lesley. My requirements were very specific and she located the perfect stone for me at a terrific price. She arranged to have the stone shipped to them for inspection. They do not drop ship as some internet vendors do. When the stone arrived, it was inspected by Brian, who is a cutter, and he discussed it with me at length.
Then, at my request, the stone was shipped to an independent appraiser of my choice. He said it was a beautiful stone he verified all the information. If anything, it was better than described. I saw the stone there and it is everything I had hoped for.
The stone has now been shipped back to Whiteflash to be set in one of their beautiful platinum settings. At this point, I have not had to pay Whiteflash and will not be required to pay until the stone is set and ready to be shipped.
I live in Manhattan and shopped in the diamond district and elsewhere. I feel I have a good basis for comparison and I am very grateful to the people on Pricescope who recommended Whiteflash.
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