Is all of this research... worth it? Details inside

[Anonymous6]

I've been on Pricescope for one day.... and have learned a SUBSTANTIAL amount about diamonds compared to just one day before. Before coming here, I went to a jeweler I was recommended to and saw a 1.87 carat round diamond color J, SI2 clarity, excellent cut and thought it was incredible even when put up against a few others that were of better quality (I couldn't see much of a difference if any at all)


I come here and suddenly am now searching for a 1.3-1.6 carat round diamond, color H or better, VS1 or better Clarity, triple excellent or H&A cut, depth between 58.5-62.5, table between 52.4 and 59.5.... all in the same price range as above.

I'm wondering if I found a diamond that matched the exact specs above compared to the 1st diamond I saw... would it be a mind blowing difference?

Is all of this knowledge worth it? Or will it just make me spend more for something I won't really ever notice unless I compare it to a brilliant stone a friend has? Does this make sense?

Trust me, I love the knowledge I'm gaining by researching here... I am a bargain shopper and need to know EVERY detail before buying... but when is enough, enough?

 

[Porridge]

This is a very good question. I don't have the experience to answer you, other than to say I really think it is a personal preference and the only way to find out is to see as many varying quality diamonds as possible, and decide for yourself where your limits are.

For example I am not very colour sensitive, and anyway I personally prefer lower colours, so somebody trying to tell me that I should spend extra on say an G rather than a J is useless to me. I also personally don't mind inculsions as long as I can't see them, so an eye-clean SI2 would be perfect for me. With regards to cut, I can easily spot a badly cut stone, however, at what point I lose the ability to tell the difference between say well cut vs very well cut I don't yet know. Bottom line, learn as much as you can because knowledge is power, but at the end of the day you have to use your eyes.

I am sure there are threads discussing at what point differences in cut become undetectable to the human eye. I am interested to read people's opinions on that.

 

[qwertyasdf]

Hi Anonymous6,
I feel exactly the same way. Sometimes ignorance is bliss...
In my research, I have contemplated smaller diamonds with DEF/VVS2 and big diamonds with IJK/SI2.
Seems to me there is always something bigger and better -- with a bigger price tag to go along with it.
In the end, it will probably not matter much to normal people day to day.
Having the knowledge now however, it's hard to buy something not AGS/GIA graded, non ideal/excellent cut and not at least in the G/H SI1 eye-clean range.

Does anyone have a cure for this?

 

[JulieN]

So buy a stone PS-approved, then take it in to your local jeweler, and compare the two. You can STILL buy a J SI2 if you want to.

 

[Anonymous6]

I'm basically the same as you.

Color, I literally had 5 diamonds in front of me from J, I, H, G, F... and could hardly tell the difference between the J and the F. I noticed the J was not as white, but it really was not that obvious to my eyes. I even took it outside and looked at it in the sun and in the bright room as well.

Clarity is what got me... I have yet to see an "eye clear" SI2 or SI1... the one that I saw had a dark mark in it that I could only see if I turned the diamond upside down... but the fact that I knew that was there was a real turn off.So ever since this, I have leaned toward VS2 or higher, unless one day I do see a true "eye clear" SI2 or SI1

I've only looked at excellent cut diamonds, so I don't have too much experience here... I need to learn more about the H&A cuts and see those side by sides with excellent to ideal cuts.

Are table and depth visible to the naked eye? (given the specs in my first post regarding table and depth)

What about fluorescence? How visible would that be side by side say NONE sitting next to one with FAINT fluorescence?


It's just funny how my entire viewpoint on diamonds has changed in a matter of 24 hours based on a few hours of research I've done and I still have a TON to learn

 

[Porridge]

Personally, no I would not notice the faint flourescence. Then again, I think flourescence is coooool.

As for the table and depth, personally I do not know to what point I would notice the difference. Again, see as many stones as possible. Search around here, there are a ton of comparison videos.

I don't mean to poke my nose into your business, but a piece of advice I would give to anyone in your situation - ie just starting to learn - is to wait. Don't feel like you have to know it all, or at once. Remember that you and your SO will be looking at this rock for many years to come, so take your time, learn as much as possible, and then most importantly use that information to find what you like, what you are comfortable with, what you will be happy with.

 

[Anonymous6]

The thing is, my gf is a typical girl. She fell in love with that 1.87 carat diamond even with its low quality ratings.... She says she wants a good mix of quality and size but it was pretty obvious the size was what interested her when we went shopping


I.... want a nice sized stone but good quality. So take it down to a 1.4-1.7 and bump the quality up a bit.

My concern is that if I find a 1.4-1.7 carat diamond with the specs I'm looking for..... how will it compare side by side to the 1.87 lower quality one. (which I'll never know because I think they sold it)

Not only that... but would my gf even notice the difference? And would she had rather just preferred the size!?

 

[coati]

Ditto porridge-it is a great question. I think the best advice is to educate your eyes, decide what you like, and then make your selection. (it sounds like you are well on your way) Diamond preference is personal. Many people cannot tell the difference between certain levels of cut, color and clarity. The knowledge is worth it, because ultimately you will decide if certain characteristics are worth the price. Color is not worth the price for me, so I throw it out the window. I'll pay for VS clarity however, because I can see inclusions all too easily. We all make our choices based on what is important to us.

Since you are looking at well cut diamonds, most will have reasonable table percentages in relation to total depth.

Faint fluorescence will most likely not be visible to the naked eye.

Take your time with it and have fun.

 

[Anonymous6]

Yeah, I'll be taking my time.

My concern now is, do I drag my gf to do this research with me? Or do I do it all on my own?

And the issue here is does she even care about these details or would a 1.85+ carat diamond trump all others as long as it wasn't yellow and full of visible inclusions?...

Perhaps I should talk it over with her. We've been dating for almost 6 years... but she still wants it to be a surprise so I don't wanna just walk her through EVERYTHING ya know?


lol now I'm just bitc*ing to everyone I know...

 

[kenny]

"All this research" is worth it to some people but not to others.

To me, it is.

 

[E B]

Anon, if your girlfriend liked the J, why search for H or higher?

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047809007

 

[bright&shiny]

I think it is absolutely worth it! I use the data to rule stones out - and my heart to select the ones I buy.

I'm fairly certain that if you compared a PS vetted stone against the one you saw in the store both of you would notice a substantial difference. However, there is always the possibility that - like wine - the qualities one person can distinguish and cherish may mean little to the next person. If that is the case, and you both can not see (or feel) a significant difference between the stones - rejoice! You can buy a lot of jewelry for less money than some of us poor cut-crazy folks can.

At the end of the day, I think most of us make our decisions about which stone to buy based on our subjective likes and dislikes. For some, size wins, others, clarity or color - for many of us, the resulting fire from a good cut is a prerequisite. Regardless of these things, we end up voting with our eyes.

Look at as many stones as you can and learn what you like. Do this in person and look at the many videos posted online. Both experiences are important (to me, anyway). Have fun!

 

[Porridge]

Well said Coati.

Well I can't speak for your girlfriend, but I will say 1) same applies to her, go see as many stones as possible and wait! don't buy the first sparkly you see! Trust me, I'm a girl, I know it's all too easy to get swept up in the experience and forget the details, and if she's anything like me she probably wants it yesterday Diamond shopping is an emotional experience for most of us girls, it is easy to get carried away.

2) It is generally true that a well cut stone will *appear* bigger than a same-sized poorly cut stone. Well cut stones reflect more light and are therefore brighter, and there is less light leakage around the edges. So when you are talking small size differences like the difference between 1.7 and 1.87 I would go for the smaller, better cut stone, no question.

As for involving her, well only you know that. Personally, I would want to be involved, but obviously I'm a bit of a nut for this stuff. I would suggest that you broach the subject with her, and see how receptive she is to learning the specifics. If she is interested, great, get her involved and get a stone you are both proud of and happy with. There are dozens of ways to still make the proposal a surprise - check out the proposal ideas forum. If she is not interested, well then it's up to you to decide! You know her best.

Good wine analogy bright&shiny!

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Anonymous6 ,
You have used the term "Excellent Cut"


Were the diamonds you saw graded by GIA?
That's a very important distinction.

If they were not graded by GIA that calls the grading into question.

For sure there are Si1 and SI2 stones, properly graded, that are not eye clean- but fro the sound of it, you saw some imperfect stones.....

 

[Amys Bling]

Hi Anonymous6,
I feel exactly the same way. Sometimes ignorance is bliss...
In my research, I have contemplated smaller diamonds with DEF/VVS2 and big diamonds with IJK/SI2.
Seems to me there is always something bigger and better -- with a bigger price tag to go along with it.
In the end, it will probably not matter much to normal people day to day.
Having the knowledge now however, it's hard to buy something not AGS/GIA graded, non ideal/excellent cut and not at least in the G/H SI1 eye-clean range.

Does anyone have a cure for this?

I think that ignorance is bliss.... up until a point. I think that yuo are right in that, to normal people day to day- color grades, clarity grades, will not make a difference. Also- I think that you eye is the best judge. When you see something you love- looks great to you- that is your answer. Numbers and grades don't tell all.


I think ignorance is bad when it comes to cut. You always (most people at least) want a weel cut diamond so that it sparkles and shines. Also- ignorance is bad when it comes to pricing. If you aren't educated, yu could end up paying way too much for a specific stone.

I think it really is half-half. You need to educate yourself to understand pricing- and what is a "good deal", but in the end your eye is the best judge.

 

[Amys Bling]

Yeah, I'll be taking my time.

My concern now is, do I drag my gf to do this research with me? Or do I do it all on my own?

And the issue here is does she even care about these details or would a 1.85+ carat diamond trump all others as long as it wasn't yellow and full of visible inclusions?...

Perhaps I should talk it over with her. We've been dating for almost 6 years... but she still wants it to be a surprise so I don't wanna just walk her through EVERYTHING ya know?


lol now I'm just bitc*ing to everyone I know...

has your gf seen an ideal cut 1.65-1.75 next to that lower spec 1.85? If the cut on the 1.85 is not ideal or excellent- for all you know it very well may be facing up more like a 1.75 would. Look at measurements as well, not just carat weight, as that can be misleading when you have a shallow stone or deep stone instead of an ideal/excellent cut stone.

Also- have her look at higher quality stones- better color, clarity, and cut next to a bigger stone with lower scores on all fronts. See these stones side by side in "everyday lighint" by a window in the jewelry store. The lights in jewelry stores are flattering to all the stones, but a lower spec stone may take on an entirely different life of it's own once you leave the store.

 

[Porridge]

Look at measurements as well, not just carat weight, as that can be misleading when you have a shallow stone or deep stone instead of an ideal/excellent cut stone.

Excellent point, very important!

 

[Anonymous6]

The 1.87 carat was GIA certified excellent cut

I believe this particular jeweler only carries excellent to ideal cut diamonds (it's a semi small store)

 

[coati]

If she likes the diameter of a well-cut 1.87, then other diamonds may feel small to her...just a thought. Take her with you when you shop. If she's cool with being part of the process, it's a nice way for you to get the info you need from her. Make it a romantic experience. My husband and I shopped together, and it was really lovely. Good luck!

 

[Matata]

[quote="Anonymous6

Is all of this knowledge worth it? Or will it just make me spend more for something I won't really ever notice unless I compare it to a brilliant stone a friend has? Does this make sense? Trust me, I love the knowledge I'm gaining by researching here... I am a bargain shopper and need to know EVERY detail before buying...but when is enough, enough?[/quote]

I've always felt that the point of the research is to ensure that you know what your options are so you can make an educated choice about what is best for you. Knowing the differences in cut, color & clarity doesn't mean you have to spend more for a stone than you're comfortable with, it means you'll be comfortable with the stone whatever you spend.

 

[Amys Bling]

The 1.87 carat was GIA certified excellent cut

I believe this particular jeweler only carries excellent to ideal cut diamonds (it's a semi small store)

**I think**- There is a lot of leeway with GIA excellent cut stones. Could be wrong though- Do you have the information from the certificate?

information on cut quality:

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut/

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor

The HCA tool allows you to enter the GIA certificate information to determine cut quality.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca/

 

[Rockdiamond]

The 1.87 carat was GIA certified excellent cut

I believe this particular jeweler only carries excellent to ideal cut diamonds (it's a semi small store)

That makes this a lot easier for you, because you can look at some different combinations of table, depth, pavilion and crown angles.

There is some debate about some of the aspects that go into what makes the "best" cut.
For sure, a lot of it is extremely detail oriented.
For example, the "cheat sheet" is geared toward one particular type of well cut diamond.
You may very well prefer a stone with a 60% table - so I would not suggest limiting the table size to 59.5%

Amys Bling is referring to the fact that some folks here feel that the GIA "EX" cut grade is too wide- however a lot of experts would say if the stone got GIA EX cut grade, it's worth further investigation on the basis of that aspect itself.

By all means, if you have the opportunity to look at many stones, and the interest- as it sounds like you do, look!

 

[Amys Bling]

The 1.87 carat was GIA certified excellent cut

I believe this particular jeweler only carries excellent to ideal cut diamonds (it's a semi small store)

That makes this a lot easier for you, because you can look at some different combinations of table, depth, pavilion and crown angles.

There is some debate about some of the aspects that go into what makes the "best" cut.
For sure, a lot of it is extremely detail oriented.
For example, the "cheat sheet" is geared toward one particular type of well cut diamond.
You may very well prefer a stone with a 60% table - so I would not suggest limiting the table size to 59.5%

Amys Bling is referring to the fact that some folks here feel that the GIA "EX" cut grade is too wide- however a lot of experts would say if the stone got GIA EX cut grade, it's worth further investigation on the basis of that aspect itself.

By all means, if you have the opportunity to look at many stones, and the interest- as it sounds like you do, look!

thanks rock diamond for further explaining the GIA ex grade thing. I definitely think that if a stone is graded by a reputable grading lab as excellent, it is a stone that you want to keep on the short list!

 

[Circe]

Honestly ... it depends.

I know I did all of my diamond research bass-ackwards: first I bought the stone, and then I spent a happy month staring at it in delight, and then I started louping and measuring and wigging out, and then I found PriceScope. See, I grew up in a jewelry family, but I always preferred colored stones. So when I bought my first diamond, I was a total newb - I went off of what pleased my eye, and it would up being a 1.46 J VS2 stone, even as compared to a larger and higher colored 1.6 G, and even as compared to a D, IF 1 carat stone that could have been an option. I'm one of those weirdos who prefers a little warmth, and who doesn't like H&A on the hand (I prefer the weirdly kaleidoscopic effect of the "imperfect" round). But, I will say, I would have spent a lot less time freaking out about all of the above if I'd just done my research first ....

Having done said research, allow me to impart my wisdom.

Inititally, I was totally a mind-clean clarity girl: then, a few years later, I bought an SI1 stone for a pendant. NEVER going back. My VS2 e-ring is lovely, but ... so is my pendant. I know I spent an anxious hour or two after having my prongs mended making *absolutely certain* my stone hadn't been swapped: I'll never have that worry with my pendant, and outside of a loupe, nobody knows the difference.

Fluorescence: I happen to think this is an *awesome* quality. It got a bad rep. after the price inflation and false advertising that ran rampant during the height of the diamond boom in the 70s and 80s ... but at the end of the day, it's a rare quality (30% of diamonds have it, most of which are blue, some of which are ... other). If it's blue fluor, it has the glorious effect of helping stones to face up whiter: if it's strong fluor, you get a blue diamond (in some light, anyway) for a fraction of the going price! If I have *one* regret about my e-ring, it's that it only has faint white fluor. Since then, all the stones I've bought have been strong, and I don't see myself budging on that. One important thing to keep in mind, though: fluor is graded by the completely subjective eye, and under the specific conditions of the Diamond Dock ... which means that some stones graded "medium" can fluoresce in daylight, and some stones graded Very Strong Blue can only show up under a black light.

Bottom line, I think Bright&Shiny pegged it when she said, "there is always the possibility that - like wine - the qualities one person can distinguish and cherish may mean little to the next person." What a lovely metaphor! So, figure out what you and your GF love - and go from there! I would totally recommend talking it over with her: if she's the one wearing it, why guess as to whether she prefers size vs. color vs. being able to tell her friends, yeah, it's less than a carat, but it's a "perfect" D IF stone? Big decisions will be made together from this point onwards (and, at 6 years, I'm guessing have been for a while now), so why not start off in the best mode possible?

 

[Anonymous6]

Thank you all for your words of wisdom. This forum (as are many forums) has been amazing. I could literally spend an entire day on pricescope and still feel like I needed to know more.

That's interesting, you're the first person to have said they like fluorescence. I've always heard go for none go for none!

I know my gf well enough to where she wants a classic ring. A classic diamond. White/sparkly/shiny but at the same time big enough to please the eye. She'd be the girl who would enjoy having a 1.5 I+ SI1 (eye clear + as opposed to a 1ct D IF (I haven't seen them side by side, but I'd assume she'd still prefer the half carat larger )

What it really boils down to is what you all have been repeating to me.... eye testing for ourselves. Look at as many stones as possible. If we don't notice differences with our eyes either from close up or far away, then make the sacrifices from there. That's how it was the 1st trip.. but we only looked at maybe 8 or so total diamonds that day and it was our first time so emotions were flying high and probably clouding judgment.

Now that I'm more educated, I'll feel a lot more confident and comfortable walking in and looking at diamonds. Perhaps my eyes will be more picky and precise and my mind won't be clouded. Or perhaps I still won't notice differences between many of the diamonds. (this may have been because as I said, this jeweler/wholesaler whatever you wanna call them, only carred GIA certified excellent cut diamonds)

I believe Thursday we're going to head out and look at 2 more places, so I'm going to just ask to see as many diamonds as possible again and see if our 4 eyes combined can help our decision.

Anyone ever compare diamond buying to car buying? You get a car that is beautiful on the outside with not many bells and whistles on the inside whether it be interior or under the hood.... and you get cars that are so-so on the outside but fabulous interior design and a great engine under the hood (things no one will see most of the time).

I guess I could quote that nice symbolic quote that had been repeated in this thread about wine....

 

[Imdanny]

Knowledge is power, power to make an informed choice. I think that's a good thing.

I think there's a basic dilemma (I think it's cultural, it's not specific to you or to any one couple) between the idea that the man surprises the woman with a proposal and ring vs. the fact that women naturally have their own ideas and desires about diamonds and rings and if the ring is a surprise by definition it's not one she chooses.

It's for you to decide, of course, but after spending a couple years here and reading thousands of posts, my personal belief is that the best scenario is for a couple to choose the ring together. I come down on the side of being practical because the easiest way to know what she wants is if she has an equal input into the decision. So my advice to you would be, to the extent you feel comfortable doing it, to ask her directly about decisions. In the comparison that you mention, for instance, I don't see how you could know what she thinks unless she tells you. And it's a big decision. She might not know which one she would choose unless she knows more about the options herself.

I personally would chose quality over ct. weight but that's just me. It's been mentioned here a lot that choices about trade offs involving ct. weight, color, clarity, etc. are subjective.

So, yes, I think the research is worth it. Good luck.

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

I new here and I lurk more than I post, but I've found the information at Pricescope to be very helpful for choosing a diamond wisely.

I think the most imoprtant thing to remember is you're getting engaged, it's an exciting time in your life and shopping for the perfect ring should be a fun exeprience. Find a diamond that sings to your heart. That being said, a diamond is a lot of money so do a bit of research and at least know what you are buying.

I know she wants to be surprised but maybe she can go shopping with you and actually pick what she wants then you can surprise her with how you propose and present the ring to her.

Go for size first! It's what your girlfirend wants and honestly she may not care much about anything other than size. Just make sure you budget is large enough to buy a sprakly nice colored diamond that appeals to you and not a lifeless dull looking diamond just because it's big. I am sure once she sees a big honking ugly sparkle-less diamond she'll back down the size until she can find a size and a sparkle she loves.

I've been married for 26 years and no one has ever once grabbed my hand and looked at my diamond through a jewlers loop, much less asked me what the clarity, color, table, depth, etc. THEY DO ASK THE CARAT WEIGHT ALL OF THE TIME THOUGH! LOL!

Don't let anyone tell you that you have to get a diamond that is a E F G or even a H because they are the best. Gemologists use strict lighting conditions to determine the color of a diamond, plus have the diamond most likely out of the setting and the table facing down to even judge the color. Face up they may all look like the same color, especially if the lower color diamond is an excellent cut. So how many times are you gonna have that diamond out of the setting, table down and in strict lighting conditions? Never! Seriously, the only people who say they can tell a diamond's color by looking at it are people who look at diamonds all of the time....and those people are most likely not even in your friends circle so they will never know if your diamond is an E or an F or an H or whatever it might be.

I've seen some very beautiful I color diamonds that face up gorgeously! So don't get stuck on a color, just pick a diamond that is pleasing to you in all different kinds of lighting conditions--inside outside, direct lighting, side lighting, etc.

I would worry more about clarity--I've seen some pretty ugly inclusions and carbon spots in diamonds and I didn't even need a jelwers loop to see them. But that being said, find out what the inclusions are and where they are as that makes a difference too.

Anyway, congratualtions to you and your girlfriend and please come back and show us what diamond you choose.

Hugs,
MyDiamondSparkles