International Returns (Antique Colombian Emerald Ring) - Any successful experiences? Please share!

[musicalmeow]

Hi folks,

Apologies if I’ve not posted in the correct thread - mods, please feel free to move it if necessary. I’m feeling a bit anxious about an international return that I’m currently involved in, so would like to hear some of your successful experiences, if any. If you’ve had the opposite experience, please feel free to share that also!

Here’s my own experience so far:

I’m based in the U.K. and recently purchased a lovely antique platinum and emerald (GIA Colombian F2) diamond ring from a US vendor via a PayPal invoice (Goods and Services). The ring’s listing description pointed out a sizing mark on the back of the band, and apart from this previous resizing, no other issues were mentioned. When I received the ring, however, I saw evidence of larger repairs that weren’t disclosed. The tip of the platinum mount had once broken off and was then re-attached (I was told by a specialist that it was likely done using a laser welder). You can still see the cracks from the damage, and the piece of soldered metal at the back of the mount from the previous repair is the only material holding the broken area together.

I’ve consulted with several jewellers in the UK who specialise in antique restorations, and they all say the damaged area is really fragile and none of them are willing to restore the damaged mount or at least fill in those cracks.

So I’ve requested to return the ring back to the seller, which was accepted. The seller has emailed me their return address, but as it’s my first international return, I wanted to do it properly through PayPal. An agent I spoke to couldn’t match the return address I was given to the seller’s PayPal account, and strongly advised that I open a dispute to start the returns process through PayPal, due to the high value of the ring.

I followed the agent’s instructions, and then I notified the seller and asked them to accept my return request so I can receive PayPal’s return instructions and upload a tracking number to the system, etc. The seller insisted that I just send the ring back to them outside of PayPal, because they couldn’t find a way to respond to my PayPal return request. I checked with PayPal about this again and was repeatedly told to not ship back the ring until the seller has responded and after I’ve received instructions from PayPal to proceed with the return.

So, I provided the seller with detailed guidance on how to get to the resolution centre to log in their response, and suggested that they contact PayPal CS in the US for any further help, and since then the seller has stopped responding to my emails. I’m sure they’re just busy, but I can’t help but feel a bit anxious as the ring costs over 3k usd.

I also communicated with another PayPal agent today to see if there’s a way to help the seller accept my PayPal return request, but the agent replied saying that “The case is being handled and reviewed by higher department as its needs more complex investigation due to sellers history with us.” I must admit that the agent’s response has made me quite nervous. So I’m trying to ease my anxiety by writing this out and turning to PS for some support.

Anyway, here are some pictures. And I’m eager to hear your stories too, please!

 

[Bron357]

Always return according to PayPal’s instructions. Always return to the address registered to PayPal for the seller. No exceptions. The seller will have to amend their PayPal account if they want make alternate instructions.
For the costs of return to be borne by the seller you need to “win” the “not as described” case. You will also need to confirm, with PayPal what shipping insurance is or isn’t needed.
Other than that, as a mutual return you will need to negotiate with the seller as to who pays the return shipping. Normally buyer pays both for “change of mind” but this is more a “not as unexpected” situation.
The other potential issue can be import forms and import costs back to the US. Someone else on PS got caught up in a return drama regarding importation documents. You should check on that with the shipper before you ship.

 

[musicalmeow]

Always return according to PayPal’s instructions. Always return to the address registered to PayPal for the seller. No exceptions. The seller will have to amend their PayPal account if they want make alternate instructions.
For the costs of return to be borne by the seller you need to “win” the “not as described” case. You will also need to confirm, with PayPal what shipping insurance is or isn’t needed.
Other than that, as a mutual return you will need to negotiate with the seller as to who pays the return shipping. Normally buyer pays both for “change of mind” but this is more a “not as unexpected” situation.
The other potential issue can be import forms and import costs back to the US. Someone else on PS got caught up in a return drama regarding importation documents. You should check on that with the shipper before you ship.

Thanks Bron for your advice! Oh wow, I didn’t know about the importation documents, that’s good to know! Could you please direct me to the thread on that topic? (I’ll try searching for it too). I’m planning to ship with DHL fully insured and apparently all I need to do is to mark the box “return to origin country” on their label, and provide the original tracking number for the ring’s shipment into the UK. But I’ll double check with DHL again on this!

 

[Lookinagain]

Did you purchase the ring with a credit card? If so, does PayPal suggest that you open a dispute with your credit card company too? I don't know their processes so am just curious if you are allowed to do that.

 

[musicalmeow]

Did you purchase the ring with a credit card? If so, does PayPal suggest that you open a dispute with your credit card company too? I don't know their processes so am just curious if you are allowed to do that.

Thanks for your question, @Lookinagain! I paid with PayPal linked to my Visa debit card, so I wouldn’t be able to open a dispute. My understanding is, for those who have paid with a credit card, you cannot file a dispute with both PayPal and your CC company at the same time. So, for example, if you open a dispute with your CC company while you still have an open case with PayPal, PayPal will automatically close your case (and not in your favour). When trying to sort out issues with purchases, I believe that most people turn to PayPal first and wait for them come to a resolution (which can take several weeks, if not longer), and if that doesn’t work out, then they reach out to their CC company. I hope this was helpful!

 

[Lookinagain]

Thanks for your question, @Lookinagain! I paid with PayPal linked to my Visa debit card, so I wouldn’t be able to open a dispute. My understanding is, for those who have paid with a credit card, you cannot file a dispute with both PayPal and your CC company at the same time. So, for example, if you open a dispute with your CC company while you still have an open case with PayPal, PayPal will automatically close your case (and not in your favour). When trying to sort out issues with purchases, I believe that most people turn to PayPal first and wait for them come to a resolution (which can take several weeks, if not longer), and if that doesn’t work out, then they reach out to their CC company. I hope this was helpful!

Thank you for that information. I hope things work out for you.

 

[Rfisher]

Yikes.
Lovely ring, but I understand why you’d want to return.

DHL might assist you with the documents, they may not. I think it depends on the mood of the person you get to talk to. I do know the choice of classification code that is entered on those documents is tied to the fee amount. Antique might be less, or no fee.

I hope this all works out for you.

There’s plenty to discuss on other aspects of this -

When it’s all done, maybe you’d feel comfortable sharing?
What’s the value in a ring needing a fix vs it being fixed before listing?
A serviceable patch vs a restoration?
The necessity on vendors ‘completeness’ of listing information about condition/stability on antique items? Moreso than a ‘duh…it’s an antique, it’s fragile’ . Wanting to know if a split in metal is there is totally different than needing every flea bite mapped out.
Vendors who don’t want to ship international -
Vendors who don’t want to use PayPal due to return fees

I think it all boils down to wanting all pertinent information above table so we are able to make an informed choice and know what we are getting into. Not too much to ask!

****
This ring looks familiar to me but I can’t place it. So with that being said, my next comment is not because of knowing who vendor is.

I think there’s a chance PayPal saying ‘due to sellers history’ might not be an automatic negative association against the vendor. Would it ever deserve a higher dept due to positive vendor history ? A stretch - sure.
I think there’s a maybe chance the vendor has good intentions and wanted to refund you, but didn’t want to pay the PP fees and tried to circumvent - hence it looks sketchy.
And you are right to feel that way.
Protect thyself. Because the vendor is doing the same.

 

[Mreader]

You’ve gotten good advice. I’m just chiming in to say that ring is gorgeous and if there were a way to keep it and repair it, I would want to do that!

 

[Dreamer_D]

You’ve gotten good advice. I’m just chiming in to say that ring is gorgeous and if there were a way to keep it and repair it, I would want to do that!

I was thinking this too. That glorious emerald sugarloaf is likely worth the entire purchase price anyway.

 

[musicalmeow]

Yikes.
Lovely ring, but I understand why you’d want to return.

DHL might assist you with the documents, they may not. I think it depends on the mood of the person you get to talk to. I do know the choice of classification code that is entered on those documents is tied to the fee amount. Antique might be less, or no fee.

I hope this all works out for you.

There’s plenty to discuss on other aspects of this -

When it’s all done, maybe you’d feel comfortable sharing?
What’s the value in a ring needing a fix vs it being fixed before listing?
A serviceable patch vs a restoration?
The necessity on vendors ‘completeness’ of listing information about condition/stability on antique items? Moreso than a ‘duh…it’s an antique, it’s fragile’ . Wanting to know if a split in metal is there is totally different than needing every flea bite mapped out.
Vendors who don’t want to ship international -
Vendors who don’t want to use PayPal due to return fees

I think it all boils down to wanting all pertinent information above table so we are able to make an informed choice and know what we are getting into. Not too much to ask!

****
This ring looks familiar to me but I can’t place it. So with that being said, my next comment is not because of knowing who vendor is.

I think there’s a chance PayPal saying ‘due to sellers history’ might not be an automatic negative association against the vendor. Would it ever deserve a higher dept due to positive vendor history ? A stretch - sure.
I think there’s a maybe chance the vendor has good intentions and wanted to refund you, but didn’t want to pay the PP fees and tried to circumvent - hence it looks sketchy.
And you are right to feel that way.
Protect thyself. Because the vendor is doing the same.

Thank you so much @Rfisher for sharing your thoughts!

First, I didn’t know that the classification code played such a large part in determining the fee amount, so I’ll make sure to look up the code for antiques, thank you!

I’ve just heard back from the seller. They’re really busy with family visiting, so they just need more time to get in touch with PayPal and get help on how to respond to my return request. To be fair, PayPal really does not make it easy for people to navigate and find specific things through their webpage. In my personal experience, some of the PP agents I’ve contacted also seem to be a bit clueless, and often resort to unhelpful generic responses.

You’ve raised really good questions, some of which I’ve been thinking over as well. One of the jewellers who inspected the ring did say that if something as common as a resizing mark on the ring’s shank was mentioned in the listing, then larger damages and previous repairs such as this one ought to be disclosed as well. I think the jeweller made a good point. I believe if I had known about these structural issues (e.g. ideally even see pictures of them beforehand) and the difficulty in finding jewellers to address those cracks, I would probably not have bought this ring.

I hope to address some of your other questions after it’s all settled, hopefully not too long from now!

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

Lots of good advice here… just wanted to say, that ring is GORGEOUS!

 

[musicalmeow]

You’ve gotten good advice. I’m just chiming in to say that ring is gorgeous and if there were a way to keep it and repair it, I would want to do that!

Thank you so much, @Mreader! It’s such a beautiful ring and I do love it! While I’m in this waiting period, I still haven’t given up and am using this time to find more jewellers who might be willing to work on the ring. Two jewellers I’ve consulted with have both pointed out that the soldered metal from the previous repair is either white gold or lead (as using platinum would require a very high heat that this ring can’t handle), which apparently makes any further repairs on this area really difficult. I finally got a quote today for £700-£1500 from another jeweller located on the other side of the country, but he’s says there’s a 50% he can’t work on it at all for that reason. I guess this is a more positive response, considering I’ve already had several jewellers flat out refuse to do any work on the ring. The seller also said they can repair the ring for $30, so either way the ring needs to go back them first.

 

[musicalmeow]

I was thinking this too. That glorious emerald sugarloaf is likely worth the entire purchase price anyway.

Thanks so much @Dreamer_D! I adore cabochons in general and this sugarloaf is so special, but the ring’s antique belle epoque design is really what caught my eye, it’s so breathtaking!

@lavenderdragonfly23 Thank you so much!

 

[Rfisher]

The seller also said they can repair the ring for $30

This makes my eye twitch.

 

[musicalmeow]

Sorry it made your eye twitch @Rfisher, do you mind elaborating more?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Sorry it made your eye twitch @Rfisher, do you mind elaborating more?

I assume it’s because that is absolutely bonkers to claim this can be repaired for $30! Do not pursue that option please.

 

[Mreader]

I assume it’s because that is absolutely bonkers to claim this can be repaired for $30! Do not pursue that option please.

The repair quote is also extremely high on the person who says there’s a 50% chance he can do it. I would just leave it as it is and live with it, but I know some people are not able to handle that!

 

[Dreamer_D]

The repair quote is also extremely high on the person who says there’s a 50% chance he can do it. I would just leave it as it is and live with it, but I know some people are not able to handle that!

I dunno if that quote is out to lunch? If there is someone local known for this type of repair work I might get their opinion. Like whoever the equivalent of Sako or Gary Roe is locally (those are the US names I’ve heard who do this work). But I’m betting their services are expensive!

 

[Rfisher]

Sorry it made your eye twitch @Rfisher, do you mind elaborating more?

Don’t be sorry!

Aside from the disappointment of it not being noted at all before the sale

You said it’s a 3k+ ring? For quoting you $30
why wouldn’t they go ahead and do that fix they seem appropriate before they list it and tack it on to the price.

Whether that $30 is a bandaid or a fix is up for debate.
I guess the same for whether it’s stable now, or will be stable after more solder.

Will more solder look too lumpy? Can they /will they smooth it out or leave it as it lays? Is that why someone chose just to do the back edge the first time?

If it to be considered stable, it need to have the stones removed, solder removed, parts laser welded, grind/polish to look nice, stones reset.
I think 1k would be a decent starting ballpark to throw out there, for that work be done by someone who is talented at it, but prices may have risen since a few years ago.

 

[Mreader]

I guess I should clarify - while the repair cost of 1-2K might be fair, I would have a hard time paying that when the ring was 3K. That’s why I would live with it but YMMV.

 

[Rfisher]

Yes, paying that much to make a ring safely wearable definitely factors in on what an acceptable purchase price is.

 

[Dreamer_D]

For sure. There is a point of diminishing return. It this case I would consider how much I loved the center stone and how rare or beloved the style of the setting was. I understand why that math doesn’t add up for OP. I could also understand someone paying the fees as it’s a lovely stone and mount. I might err the same as @Mreader except I’d worry about the stone falling out!

 

[Rhea]

There will be a difference between what the seller can do the repair for, they'll have a jeweller, and what you'll pay at retail prices. $30 seems low but they are trade (they might not be passing the entire cost off to you either since they want the sale), and wouldn't be paying £700 - £1,500 for repairs. I needed an antique ring I was buying resized years ago and the seller told me £20. I thought that was high so left, the dealer said, sure, shop around, but I think you'll be back. A highly recommend not quite so local jewellers was £150 + VAT + shipping. I returned to the dealer and got her person to do it. I wish I had a person!

 

[Christinak]

Thank you so much, @Mreader! It’s such a beautiful ring and I do love it! While I’m in this waiting period, I still haven’t given up and am using this time to find more jewellers who might be willing to work on the ring. Two jewellers I’ve consulted with have both pointed out that the soldered metal from the previous repair is either white gold or lead (as using platinum would require a very high heat that this ring can’t handle), which apparently makes any further repairs on this area really difficult. I finally got a quote today for £700-£1500 from another jeweller located on the other side of the country, but he’s says there’s a 50% he can’t work on it at all for that reason. I guess this is a more positive response, considering I’ve already had several jewellers flat out refuse to do any work on the ring. The seller also said they can repair the ring for $30, so either way the ring needs to go back them first.

Hello so sorry you are in this situation. It’s a beautiful ring.

Have you tried Gaetano. He is well know for antique jewellery restoration - based in London. I’ve worked with him and highly recommend.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

 

[musicalmeow]

Hi! Wow, thank you so much for your responses! Here are my answers to everyone below:

@Dreamer_D : I’ll admit that I got my hopes up (this was before I received the UK quote), and was hoping that maybe the seller has a wizard in their bench! I did visit several local jewellers but they didn’t provide me with an estimate because they didn’t want to work on the ring. When I turned to jewellery repair specialists in London for help and received similar replies at first, I asked if they could suggest any one else I could contact, and I was told that they wouldn’t want to suggest anyone and potentially damage the ring further!

I actually reached out to Sako. He said the repair should be possible, *but* he hopes that (once again!) there isn’t any lead on the piece. He didn’t provide a quote though and he’s pretty busy right now.

Also, you have a good eye! That emerald sugarloaf is indeed a bit loose in its setting (see my response to @Rfisher below).

@Rfisher : My local jeweller pretty much outlined the same repair steps you’ve mentioned! Except he didn’t provide a quote because he didn’t want to do the repair. He explained that the previous repair looks more modern, and was probably done with a laser welder. Filling in those cracks would require a high degree of precision that would involve more laser work, but this process would require the cleaning and removal of excess metal in the tiny openings within the intricate mount, which, according to him, is extremely difficult to do if not impossible. He also said that the emerald is loose in the setting due to the gaps between the gold bezel and the centre stone. Either way, the emerald needs to be removed in order to repair the ring properly, but unsetting it is a big risk due to the fragile nature of emeralds. (Another jeweller also didn’t want to work on the ring because of the emerald).

The seller also mentioned that they would repair the ring with a laser machine, so there is at least some agreement about what the repair process would involve.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the ring being safely wearable. According to my local jeweller, the ring in its current state is not really a piece suited for (even careful) wear, but rather, is something to enjoy and look at. I trust his overall assessment because I’ve done a fair amount of research on the jewellers in my area and I’ve been impressed with the reviews, the repairs and the custom work they’ve done for other clients. I’ve taken his advice, and have kept the ring safely tucked away and admired it in its little velvet box, only taking it out very briefly for occasional photos and when showing it to other jewellers.

Also, another jeweller in London said that the previous repair wasn’t done in a way that they themselves would have done it. I guess this is in line with the feedback I’ve received from other jewellers so far - that the way the broken off piece has been laser welded back on, with what looks like the use of lead or white gold solder, would make this ring a really difficult repair job.

@Mreader : Absolutely, I too am having a hard time justifying the repair costs. On the one hand, I don’t want to keep the ring in its box indefinitely. However, if I wear the ring, even very carefully and only occasionally, there is still a high risk of damaging it even further, and I will then potentially be stuck with a broken piece that truly can’t be fixed.

@Rhea : Wow, that is such a massive price difference! Thank you for sharing your experience!

@Christinak : Thank you so much for recommending Gaetano! I’ve just reached out to him!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

good luck with what ever happens
its a very beautiful ring, how sad it is in such bad condition

 

[Dreamer_D]

Well, no one can say you aren’t doing your due diligence! It seems to me that this might be too much to try and repair and I would probably pursue the return at this point.

As an aside I feel like the seller must have known of these issues. Professionals know how to evaluate the jewelry they sell. Which makes me feel a certain kind of way about this whole situation.

 

[RRfromR]

I'd recommend returning it. I adore antique emeralds and nobody wants to touch them. My local shop would not even size down an emerald antique ring.

 

[Rfisher]

@musicalmeow
Have you asked any of the jewelers you’ve talked to that seem knowledgeable if they’d create a replica, and at what cost? Might depend on the vendor if similar style rose cut diamonds are more or less expensive than something more readily available /on hand to them.


Also re: the lead
I don’t know if there’s any bans or restrictions on selling /shipping items with suspected lead content at certain locales?
I don’t know how that would work? Just a thought.

 

[Mreader]

Well, no one can say you aren’t doing your due diligence! It seems to me that this might be too much to try and repair and I would probably pursue the return at this point.

As an aside I feel like the seller must have known of these issues. Professionals know how to evaluate the jewelry they sell. Which makes me feel a certain kind of way about this whole situation.

Yes I agree - if it’s unsafe to wear and most people are not comfortable working on it, it seems the seller should have been aware and it’s best to return it outright