Insurance/certification questions

[x8shockey0x]

Hey all, I recently went to look at some rings, or rather, A ring in Helzberg with my girlfriend, and came upon a few questions I couldn''t really answer, so your help is greatly apprecited.

First of all, the center stone was not certified for this ring. What are the problems, if any, with this?

Secondly, assuming that an uncertified diamond isn''t a good choice or I just want a better quality diamond, how do I go about insuring the diamond/ring? Say I buy the diamond from an online vendor, and have Helzberg set it. I know Helzberg says they have some insurance policy that covers their ring for life, and I''m guessing this includes that setting of the diamond if it were to fall out, since they set it. (Am I right here?) What I don''t think they insure is the setting process, if they were to break the diamond or something. I saw some positive feedback on USAA insurance. I do have those services available.

My girlfriend also seemed concerned with the convenience of being able to walk into Helzberg and get the ring fixed. Is outside insurance a problem in this case?

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Deelight]

Date: 3/23/2008 12:25:12 AM
Author:x8shockey0x
Hey all, I recently went to look at some rings, or rather, A ring in Helzberg with my girlfriend, and came upon a few questions I couldn''t really answer, so your help is greatly apprecited.


First of all, the center stone was not certified for this ring. What are the problems, if any, with this?

Personally I would not buy a ring without the diamond being certed I want to know exactly what it is I am buying


Secondly, assuming that an uncertified diamond isn''t a good choice or I just want a better quality diamond, how do I go about insuring the diamond/ring? Say I buy the diamond from an online vendor, and have Helzberg set it. I know Helzberg says they have some insurance policy that covers their ring for life, and I''m guessing this includes that setting of the diamond if it were to fall out, since they set it. (Am I right here?) What I don''t think they insure is the setting process, if they were to break the diamond or something. I saw some positive feedback on USAA insurance. I do have those services available.

I might be wrong but I am certain that their policy would extend only to the setting itself and not the diamond and I am fairly certain it would not cover your centre stone if bought elsewhere if it were damaged during setting you are best off getting your centre stone appraised and insured by yourself. I can''t comment on your choice of insure though I don''t live in the U S.

My girlfriend also seemed concerned with the convenience of being able to walk into Helzberg and get the ring fixed. Is outside insurance a problem in this case?
I can''t see why it would be

Thanks for all your help!

I hope that helps

 

[x8shockey0x]

About the cert, Helzberg said they send it out to get appraised. What''s the difference between this appraisal and a GIA cert?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 1:28:17 AM
Author: x8shockey0x
About the cert, Helzberg said they send it out to get appraised. What''s the difference between this appraisal and a GIA cert?

Both are opinions as to the quality of the diamond. The appraisal has values attached for insurance purposes, the GIA Diamond Grading Report does not. (It is legally NOT a certification.)

The GIA report will carry much more weight in the market place than any appraisal as to what the quality of the diamond actually is, but is NOT REQUIRED for insurance purposes.

In my opinion, you definitely want the appraisal and you want your own insurance so that you are protected against theft and mysterious disappearance as well as loosing the center diamond.

There were years ago many times when I could tell you that you probably did not need a grading report, such as dealing with a well established independent jeweler with a long time standing and reputation in the community who actually was also a tremendous gemologist, buy how do you know who this is and how do you know he is correct?

As a new buyer, you don''t. The market is such these days that even if he is correct, if the diamond were to be later papered by a gem lab and the gem lab made a paper that was in error it would still be deemed correct over the gemologist with the great reputation and ability.

Thus I can not any longer state that the paper is not necessary if you ever intend to resell the gem.

Ironically, most of my in house clients never ask for paper and it is never discussed during the diamond acquisition discussion. But, I now sell almost exclusively papered diamonds, and most of those from AGS. Still, I look at the gems when they come in and grade them myself. This way I know the ones that I disagree with, though these are rare.

I would emphatically recommend that you buy a papered diamond, especially if you are buying from a mass merchant who may or may not have staff in the store you are at who is qualified to look at the diamond and know what it is. The huddled masses may not know or care what their diamond actually is, so long as it is pretty, but since you are here you are no longer part of the huddled masses.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

An appraisal is an opinion of the quality characteristics and the value in a particular marketplace on a particular day. A ‘certificate’ is an opinion of the grading on a particular stone, usually containing at least weight, dimensions, color and clarity and occasionally reporting a bit more depending on the lab used and what services are chosen.

As with all opinions, an important issue revolves around who is giving it. It’s correct to say that much of this is a matter of opinion but it’s wrong to say that all opinions are equal. Anyone who wants to can call themselves either an appraiser or gemological lab and they can give whatever opinion they want. The key is that you don’t have to care.

What causes lab grading to be popular is that the quality labs have well-equipped and controlled environments where trained experts inspect the piece and give an unbiased reporting of their findings. Unfortunately, merely calling himself or herself a lab or an appraiser does not make this the case, nor does calling their work product a certificate or an appraisal. If you are going to rely on a lab or an appraiser for important information, the first thing to look at is the identity and credibility of the people giving the opinion. Saying it’s certified is not sufficient. Certified by whom is a critical part of the question. The same holds for an appraisal. For an appraisal to be useful information you must know who appraised it and you must have some reason to believe that their opinion has merit. The default answer is no.

The warranty provided by Helzburg and most other retailers includes most manufacturing defects and wear and tear throughout the life of the piece. This is handy to be sure but there are some important exclusions. In particular, it does not cover loss, theft or mysterious disappearance. That’s why you’re buying insurance anyway. These are the biggest areas of risk for a typical consumer and, if you’re planning on buying insurance that covers them you will find that you’ve got double coverage in several areas, including if the stone were to fall out of the setting. One of the big areas where there is not overlap is damage that occurs during the setting process. Most insurance companies do not cover this because they won’t bind a policy on an unmounted stone and some jewelers don’t either. I’m pretty sure Helzburg covers this but you should ask.

Prepaid repairs can be handy. Tightening stones, retipping occasionally, rhodium plating, etc. aren’t usually terribly expensive but there is a certain convenience to having it all paid for as part of the initial purchase. The usual restriction that people run into is that a Helzburg worker must inspect the piece every 6 months in order to keep the warranty in force. If you move or otherwise find it inconvenient to get to the mall for this it can become inconvenient and it’s easy to miss. The majority of people find that, after a few years, their warranty is no longer in force because of this. It can also be a problem if you find that the craftsman that they choose to do the repairs at your particular store isn’t up to your quality standards. Like appraisers and labs, all benchworkers are not equally skilled and it’s sometimes nice to be able to make this selection yourself rather than being required to use whoever the store comes up with.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[arjunajane]

Great info Wink and Neil!

 

[x8shockey0x]

Wow lots of great info. I was sure having a "papered diamond" was the way to go but now that all makes much more sense. One of my biggest concerns was the loose diamond coverage when it is set. Neil, I noticed you mentioned a lot of insurance companies "won’t bind a policy on an unmounted stone," therefore not covering the stone if damaged during the setting. I asked Helzberg, and I vaguely remember this being no, but the guy was giving me attitude about me buying another stone altogether and didn''t seem to know too much about this process, so this might be invalid. If they don''t cover, I have to search for an insurance company that will cover this. I thought this was a very common procedure, no? Certainly, people aren''t having their expensive diamonds set at risk of them being damaged.

 

[WinkHPD]

Search the threads for Jewelers Mutual, they will do it. At least if you are here in the States.

Wink