Initial thoughts from the numbers of this oval diamond?!

[gktops]

Hey guys,

New to the site. Have been doing a lot of research on diamonds and am currently looking at ovals.

This is the diamond I am currently looking at.

1.04 carat oval
Very good cut
Excellent polish, Very good symmetry
59% Table
61% Depth
No Culet
Strong Blue Fluorescence
Medium/Thick faceted Girdle

J Color
VVS1 Clarity

It has a 1.35 ratio with measurements: 7.97 x 5.90 x 3.60 mm.

How does this diamond sound? I know you can't tell if it has a bowtie from current GIA parameters, but would you think that this diamond would have a minimal bowtie from the stats?
Also, I know that ovals tend to show color and clarity more than other diamonds. I plan on setting this diamond in a 14k yellow gold ring. Do you think the J color will be fine?

Any other information greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Tim

 

[tyty333]

Are you able to see the stone? There is no way we can tell whether it has a bow-tie from the numbers and in my opinion you
can not buy an oval (or almost any fancy cut) stone without pictures.

James Allen has ovals and pictures. If you give us your budget we can see what they have

 

[Gypsy]

Numbers don't tell you anything with fancies, including ovals.

It's all about faceting and light performance.

Don't buy an oval without at least one GOOD picture.

 

[gktops]

My max budget for stone is really 3k.

 

[Gypsy]

If you have to hit a carat:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.01-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-sku-271363 Faceting is nice, a little bit of mush, but not terrible. Only a slight bowtie that blends well. It is a J like your other stone. I personally would be just fine with that. But it's a personal thing. If you wanted to take a chance of it, JA pays for shipping both ways and has a 60 day no questions asked return policy so you'd lose nothing if you wanted to have it shipped to you so you could check it out in person (which is what we recommend).

Only concern is the "very thin" part of the girdle. I'd ask the gemologist to pull it and tell you how much (what percentage) of the girdle is very thin, and how much of a durability concern that is for this particular stone. If it's minor I'd be okay with it (and from the video, I think it might be only one spot and minor).


I'd get white gold or platinum prongs on a yellow gold shank, personally for the setting.

 

[Gypsy]

Personally though.

I would go under a carat and get one of these:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.75-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-211126 Nicest faceting and least bowtie. But it also is the smallest (not comparing carat weight, but dimensions).

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.81-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-216219 If this one is eyeclean, it might be the winner. The spread (face up dimensions) actually are LARGER than the J I posted for you above (so despite being lighter in carat weight it will LOOK bigger because it faces up larger). Bowtie appears to blend well.

I would ask JA to put all three on hold and ask the gemologist to compare them, tell you if they are eyeclean, safe (girdles and inclusions) and which one they recommend based on PERFORMANCE and VALUE.

Then I'd buy that one.

 

[gktops]

Wow! Thanks for all the help. I am definitely going to look into those.

First, let me give a little more info. I have already bought that stone that I described in my first post... It is supposed to arrive on Saturday. (There is free return shipping so I can see how big or small the bowtie is). Hopefully I can post some pics of that stone once I have it in my hand and we can compare that one to these, ideally.

Thanks!

 

[gktops]

Also, it seems like people who are very knowledgeable about diamonds (as you seem to be), often gravitate to the very high color stones (D) and the not so great clarities (SI1)... What is the reason for that? I personally have great eye sight and can be a stickler for the smallest imperfections (which is why I chose a high clarity grade), whereas I felt I could get a lower color (I,J) due to the fact that I was mounting the diamond in yellow gold....

Is that logical reasoning? What is the reasoning for the D color stone.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Gypsy]

I can see how you might think that's what is happening.

It's not though.

If you were talking about ideal round brilliants you'd find that the broad preference skews toward G VS2-H SI1. But with round brilliants you are talking a shape and facet pattern that has tons of selection. So you can get an ideal cut round brilliant in just about any color and clarity you want. Just pick you choice and you'll find at least 3 solid choices in that combo.

So there is a preference toward color over clarity. But it's not as dramatic as what you see above (D SI2). There is more balance, because there is more opportunity for balance (more selection).

But you are shopping for a fancy cut. Selection is MUCH slimmer. So you have to prioritize.

How do you prioritize? You put your priorities on what you can see, over what you can't.
Faceting and performance (cut)= 1st. Because this affects everything. The appearance a diamond is more greatly impacted by the performance and the faceting than any other factor.
Second is color because fancies show more color than rounds do. And everyone can notice the difference between a D and J, even those with bad eyesight.
Last is clarity, as long as it is eyeclean and safe. Why? Without a loupe you will not be able to tell the difference between a completely eyeclean SI and an IF. You can't see it, so why eliminate perfectly good diamonds in an already compromised selection pool based on something you can't see?

Those diamonds I recommended to you were chosen by sight only. I did a search for ovals under 3,100 and then limited the selection to diamonds over .75 carats. And then I just looked at them all.

I didn't care if the diamond was a J IF or a D SI2 (obviously). All I looked at was the image. Then I looked at the video a couple times. And ONLY THEN did I look at the stats and the certificate to see if there were any flags (inclusions and girdle).

With fancy's you have to be flexible. You want the best diamond for your money you have to prioritize performance over anything else.


Hope that explains it better for you.

 

[gktops]

Yes, that explains it very well. I will be using that in order to inspect diamonds soon. Thanks.

 

[Gypsy]

Glad to be of assistance.

I had an other comment. You say that you thought you could go down on color since you are getting yellow gold. Just throw that out. Get white prongs no matter what color between D-J you get.

Metal color with white diamonds is complicated.

Get a yellow shank and white prongs.

 

[gktops]

Yes I had already planned on getting a 14k yellow gold band with white gold/platinum prongs. Even then, I thought/read/heard/made it up that a J color stone will look whiter since you have a yellow gold band even with white prongs.

Also, I am thinking of getting a Gabriel & Co setting for the diamond... Do you recommend them? I want a good quality, yet simple setting.

 

[Gypsy]

Do I recommend them.

Yes, but with reservations.

I have seen pieces I would buy (several of their bands). And pieces I wouldn't buy from them.

Depending on the design, if Ritani or Beverly K has something similar in budget (which often happens) I strongly prefer either of them. But for designs where they are the only choice for a constrained budget... then I recommend them but (again) there are some designs I would avoid, or just warn the person that it may not be 'forever' quality or stand up to hard wear.

 

[gktops]

My girlfriend also has reservations about 18k yellow gold... Her mother has an 18k gold band and it is fading after only about 10 years. Is that normal/wrong/etc? Would a 14k yellow gold band last longer?

 

[Gypsy]

My girlfriend also has reservations about 18k yellow gold... Her mother has an 18k gold band and it is fading after only about 10 years. Is that normal/wrong/etc? Would a 14k yellow gold band last longer?

The yellow gold is FADING?

That doesn't sound right. It probably just needs a polish.

18kt has more gold. Gold is yellow. SO if your lady wants it to be YELLOW then 18kt is the better choice.

Scott Kay has 19kt yellow gold. It's a really nice rich yellow color. And the quality is quite nice. But... they are a very expensive brand. You can get them pre-loved though. I have a pre-loved band from them myself and the quality is fantastic, and since it was pre-loved it was affordable. It would be pretty complicated for you though, because if you are getting an oval you'd have to get something that has a swapable head pre-loved, which most Scott Kay doesn't have so you'd have to send it back to them and ask them to alter it... which would cost money. So probably not feasible for you. Sorry for the meander.

 

[Gypsy]

Post the setting/style you are thinking of. Let me see it....

 

[gktops]

I am thinking of something like this in yellow gold:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/setting/ER6646W44JJ/

Or this:

http://www.ritani.com/engagement-rings/double-french-set-diamond--v--engagement-ring-with-surprise-diamonds-in-18kt-yellow-gold/5269

The second one has yellow prongs though.. which is a problem. But that's what I'm looking at. Simple settings like that with either pave or channel set diamonds, and I also like the antique/milgrain on the sides.

 

[Gypsy]

OK so... let's look at Beverly K for you then. They have great quality and I can recommend them without any hesitation. If you like milgrain and engraving that's going to be the best intersection of price/quality and style.

GOG and Pearlman also carries Beverly K. Ask them for a quote, then if they come in high ask them to price match the below :
http://www.elizabetajewelry.com/products/beverley-k-diamond-engagement-ring-semi-mount-center-stone-not-included-number-9153-slash-70 I REALLY like this one, and this is the one I would pick (depending on the profile -- it's either this one or the next one that is my favorite, but I can't tell which).
http://www.elizabetajewelry.com/products/beverley-k-diamond-engagement-ring-semi-mount-center-stone-not-included-number-9154-slash-52 Or this one (again depending on profile).
http://www.elizabetajewelry.com/products/beverley-k-diamond-engagement-ring-semi-mount-center-stone-not-included-number-9235-slash-65
http://www.elizabetajewelry.com/products/beverley-k-diamond-engagement-ring-semi-mount-center-stone-not-included-number-4031-slash-65
http://www.elizabetajewelry.com/products/beverley-k-diamond-engagement-ring-semi-mount-center-stone-not-included-number-1190-slash-65

I also like the Ritani. But they have a much more contemporary look and while they can customize (and do so very affordable) they don't do a lot of milgrain and engraving styles.

You can ask either Ritani OR Beverly K if they will do white heads/baskets on the yellow rings. They are both very flexible companies.

 

[gktops]

So, I just got the ring in today. It's actually a lot smaller than I had thought it would be (I guess you're always hoping the bigger the better), it has a noticeable bowtie and it ALSO seems to have noticeable dark spots on the north and south corners. I actually don't know if I really like ovals after seeing this one. I'm kind of feeling like I may want to get a round instead

If I got a round, I would still want one of those settings mentioned above by myself and Gypsy. But, I think I could get a 0.8 carat J round for around 2k ... I just think a round would look a lot nicer than this oval.

Womp womp

 

[gktops]

The J color Oval does seem very white to me though... I don't notice any hint of yellow in it...

 

[gktops]

Here it is:

 

[JulieN]

Ovals are varying degrees of "meh" from a cut perspective. I find ASETs to be fairly useless.

A J shouldn't be obviously yellow, it will just look "warmer"/darker than a colorless stone.

 

[Gypsy]

That's not a very nice oval. You are right.

But a round might be a better choice. Let's see what we find in budget for you.

Is this for you, or for your lady?

And if it is for you, how do you feel about halo settings? Beverly K has a few lovely ones in budget for you.

I'd actually go down to K in a round and eek out as much size as possible if you are happy with the J color on the oval.


You can get a 90 point K SI1


I don't think this one is going to be eyeclean, which is a shame. Still, it's worth asking about. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.91-carat-k-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-231630 It's just shy of a carat and will look about the same since it is nearly 6.3mm in diameter. It's the only one at James Allen worth a second glace.

It might be worth your time to call GOG and ask them to find you a round brilliant with ideal light return at 90 point K and SI1 that is eyeclean, at 3,000 and if it has fluorescence to boot, that's even better. Since they carry both Ritani and Beverly K it will be easiest to work with them for the whole ring.

 

[gktops]

Hmm.. Sounds like a plan. This would be for my lady, not myself.

 

[gktops]

What do you think about this one? I'm all for getting the most diamond for my money.. And this one is VS1, 93 point.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4130325-0.93-carat-Round-diamond-K-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?cid=DiamPG

 

[gktops]

And trust me, I am not ignoring your comments/suggestions. My mind is just all over the place for the best way to go about this! I've also thought of getting the diamond off of bluenile and getting a 18k yellow gold setting there also... But I am not so sure of the durability or how well the settings are made for bluenile.

 

[gktops]

Or this one:

http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-0-81-Carat-J-color-GIA-certified/D-G2Q9FQ

 

[Gypsy]

If you are buying a round you want to deal with a vendor that can provide you with an idealscope.

Rounds are very different than ovals. This is the HCA: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
You want a stone that scores 2.5 or better and then you want an idealscope so you can verify performance. BC2 does provide that. But there will be a setting fee for an outside setting. Which is fine, you just want to get the setting you decide on sent to them and they will set it for you. I've seen a number of happy transactions happen with BC2 though I have no experience with them myself.


The BC2 stones looks good at first glance but it isn't. That Idealscope is tilted and so is the ASET. The stone doesn't score well on the HCA (the HCA is not the be all and end all, an Idealscope trumps it but that one idealscope does not).

Don't go off again and start buying stones and getting them sent to you.

Let me look on BC2 for you.

 

[Gypsy]

None of the in house diamonds are good enough.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4387758-0.82-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS1-clarity.aspx You can ask them to get this one in. It's an AGS 0 (which trumps everything) and a VS1 so it's eyeclean.

I do think we can eek out more size though if you work with a vendor and tell them you want either an AGS0 or a diamond that scores well on the HCA and has a good idealscope image.

 

[Gypsy]

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4297004-0.90-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-IF-clarity.aspx Slightly over budget but maybe you can make it work?