Inclusion plot on a vs2

[Novicenovice]

Hello All... it’s me.. again.


I’ve been taking a look at this diamond and got an idealscope and report for it.
It’s a 2.27 I VS2 GIA with an HCA of 1.2

Is it bad if an inclusion plot has so many things listed?

I love my recently upgraded diamond and the way it performs. But my finger is so big I wanted to go just slightly larger. However if this stone is worse for so much action on the diagram (in comparison to what I have now) I’d rather keep what I have.



What do you all think?

 

[sledge]

Is this diamond on hold? If not, put it on hold first. Then post a link of the stone so that we can view the video.

Normally I like VS2+ clarity stones, but the inclusion plot does look messy. That doesn't mean it's bad though. Since we can't see the stone in-person, a video is the next best thing.

Have you asked JA if the stone is eye clean? Are the crystals clear or black?

The proportions and IS image look good. I just want to make sure it's eye clean, and that the inclusions aren't affecting light performance.

 

[Novicenovice]

Is this diamond on hold? If not, put it on hold first. Then post a link of the stone so that we can view the video.

Normally I like VS2+ clarity stones, but the inclusion plot does look messy. That doesn't mean it's bad though. Since we can't see the stone in-person, a video is the next best thing.

Have you asked JA if the stone is eye clean? Are the crystals clear or black?

The proportions and IS image look good. I just want to make sure it's eye clean, and that the inclusions aren't affecting light performance.

Thank you @sledge !! They said it was eye clean. Crystals appear white. What do you think??
Here’s a link

2.27 Carat round diamond

This 2.27 carat round diamond I color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[Novicenovice]

My other stone didn't have an idealscope image available. I'm wondering if that was because it would scare off a buyer? Maybe a confirmation that this one may perform better? but the inclusion plot is intimidating for sure.

 

[tyty333]

Is the inclusion plot aways going to bother you (like it is not mind-clean so you cant get it out of your head)? I'm the type of person
that can let it go as long as when I look at it I dont see anything (but sparkle). I do see a few inclusions in the blown-up version but
I'm pretty sure I would not see them in real life.

I think this stone is worth taking a look at.

BTW I wouldn't make any assumptions about the cut of your old stone just because there was not an Idealscope or Aset image.

 

[Novicenovice]

Is the inclusion plot aways going to bother you (like it is not mind-clean so you cant get it out of your head)? I'm the type of person
that can let it go as long as when I look at it I dont see anything (but sparkle). I do see a few inclusions in the blown-up version but
I'm pretty sure I would not see them in real life.

I think this stone is worth taking a look at.

BTW I wouldn't make any assumptions about the cut of your old stone just because there was not an Idealscope or Aset image.

Thank you for your input @tyty333 ! I'm the same way, as long as it is sparkly I am happy! I just didnt know if the inclusion plot action meant it's sparkle was sacrificed. There also seems to be a feather around the girdle, which my inexperience and price scope forum searching has mentioned may be bad? If it looks good I'll be changing it hopefully

 

[tyty333]

The girdle inclusion is an Indented natural. Its a part of the old skin left on the stone. I tried to see it from the front in the blown-up images but
couldnt find it (it is on the bottom side). I would ask the gemologist about that also (any durability issue?). How big is the area?

Again, for some people, it is a mind clean issue.

For others, as long as it is a small area and has no effect on the stone they are ok with it.

Edit...I see from your SMTB thread that this would be an upgrade from your current upgrade (which looks lovely I might add).
So here is the relative size difference of these two stones on a size 8 finger.

 

[Novicenovice]

The girdle inclusion is an Indented natural. Its a part of the old skin left on the stone. I tried to see it from the front in the blown-up images but
couldnt find it (it is on the bottom side). I would ask the gemologist about that also (any durability issue?). How big is the area?

Again, for some people, it is a mind clean issue.

For others, as long as it is a small area and has no effect on the stone they are ok with it.

Thank you so much!!

 

[Novicenovice]

The girdle inclusion is an Indented natural. Its a part of the old skin left on the stone. I tried to see it from the front in the blown-up images but
couldnt find it (it is on the bottom side). I would ask the gemologist about that also (any durability issue?). How big is the area?

Again, for some people, it is a mind clean issue.

For others, as long as it is a small area and has no effect on the stone they are ok with it.

Edit...I see from your SMTB thread that this would be an upgrade from your current upgrade (which looks lovely I might add).
So here is the relative size difference of these two stones on a size 8 finger.

Yes! It’s a small difference that will def be a mind issue for me. It’s a big price jump so I’m trying to be meticulous with the research. The size is worth it to me. But not if the inclusions affect the performance. I haven’t seen too many diamonds in real life up close to know any better if it would

 

[TODiamonds]

Thank you @sledge !! They said it was eye clean. Crystals appear white. What do you think??
Here’s a link

2.27 Carat round diamond

This 2.27 carat round diamond I color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

I could live with those inclusions. What I can't live with is that poor symmetry!

 

[Novicenovice]

I could live with those inclusions. What I can't live with is that poor symmetry!

Do you think the one I have now is more symmetrical? I feel like it’s not is this one more symmetrical or less? (The ideal scope to my eyes looks symmetrical, right?) sorry I’m trying to learn ..... perhaps I should give up. Lol

 

[whitewave]

Do you think the one I have now is more symmetrical? I feel like it’s not is this one more symmetrical or less? (The ideal scope to my eyes looks symmetrical, right?) sorry I’m trying to learn ..... perhaps I should give up. Lol

its GIA excellent symmetry.

There is nothing wrong with its symmetry

 

[Novicenovice]

That means the one I have now is crappy too. Lol. I am giving up.. I just wanted a bit bigger and still sparkly (I’m actually very picky but really lowered my expectations due to budgeting) but if it’s bad and not worth the $5k price jump hey I’ll stay as is. I’m still waiting for them to call me back to take payment but I don’t know if I should do it, all I know is when I see mine I wish it was a tiny bit larger
I dunno.. thanks for your help everyone I do appreciate the time

 

[whitewave]

That means the one I have now is crappy too. Lol. I am giving up.. I just wanted a bit bigger and still sparkly (I’m actually very picky but really lowered my expectations due to budgeting) but if it’s bad and not worth the $5k price jump hey I’ll stay as is. I’m still waiting for them to call me back to take payment but I don’t know if I should do it, all I know is when I see mine I wish it was a tiny bit larger
I dunno.. thanks for your help everyone I do appreciate the time

I’m sorry I can’t help right now as I am flying out first thing tomorrow morning and am running around like a crazy lady trying to get packed and realizing I’m going to have to check a bag lol.

Let me tag some people who can maybe help you @rockysalamander @yssie @arkieb1 @MissGotRocks

 

[whitewave]

Would you link to the other thread and show your current setting if you haven’t already? Thanks.

 

[Novicenovice]

Would you link to the other thread and show your current setting if you haven’t already? Thanks.

Thank you so much @whitewave

here is a link to my upgrade thread with my current setting

Got my upgrade!!

Hope everyone had a great thanksgiving and easy Black Friday. Thank you all so much for your help on my previous posts. With your help I picked a stone! I got my upgrade today in the mail and here she is. t Please excuse my swollen fingers lol. its an I VS2 that said additional clouds not...

www.pricescope.com

 

[Novicenovice]

I’m sorry I can’t help right now as I am flying out first thing tomorrow morning and am running around like a crazy lady trying to get packed and realizing I’m going to have to check a bag lol.

Let me tag some people who can maybe help you @rockysalamander @yssie @arkieb1 @MissGotRocks

Wish you a very safe flight!!!

 

[Novicenovice]

@KKJohnson

 

[sledge]

Symmetry may not be perfect, but looks pretty good to me.

I think maybe @TODiamonds was looking at the varying lengths of the arrow shafts. For instance the arrow shaft at 1 o'clock looks much longer than the shaft at the 7 o'clock position. But I think that is the result of a tilted image.

I really like the proportions -- 55 table, 61.8 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF. The idealscope image looks good. HCA score of 1.2, which is expected.

Despite the clarity plot looking gnarly, the super zoom video view on the JA site makes me think you will probably be okay. Still I think it's worth asking JA about it being eye clean. What have they said?

Also, color of this and the 1.90 you currently have look very similar.

 

[sledge]

Oh yeah.....link to the original thread on the 1.90 with cert & link to video, etc.

Round help! 1.85 I SI1 True Hearts vs 1.9 I VS2

Hi everyone! I’ve sent in my ring for an upgrade and went with the 1.85 after your help and guidance. I guess I wasn’t satisfied completely with the spread (I haven’t seen the new diamond yet) and stumbled upon a new diamond that’s a bit larger. Should I halt the upgrade and switch the diamond...

www.pricescope.com

 

[Novicenovice]

Symmetry may not be perfect, but looks pretty good to me.

I think maybe @TODiamonds was looking at the varying lengths of the arrow shafts. For instance the arrow shaft at 1 o'clock looks much longer than the shaft at the 7 o'clock position. But I think that is the result of a tilted image.

I really like the proportions -- 55 table, 61.8 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF. The idealscope image looks good. HCA score of 1.2, which is expected.

Despite the clarity plot looking gnarly, the super zoom video view on the JA site makes me think you will probably be okay. Still I think it's worth asking JA about it being eye clean. What have they said?

Also, color of this and the 1.90 you currently have look very similar.

Just so I can catch you before it’s too late do you think this one is better since the arrows look clearer ?

2.21 Carat round diamond

This 2.21 carat round diamond I color vs2 clarity has Ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

Funny all this time I was looking at diamonds with the darkest arrows and when I got mine I only see them in special lighting so I guess it doesn’t matter or is that normal? Reading your response now @sledge ! thank you!!

they said “it’s a vs2 so it’s eye clean”
Oh how I’d love to go to Whiteflash (not possible )

 

[sledge]

they said “it’s a vs2 so it’s eye clean”
Oh how I’d love to go to Whiteflash (not possible )

Geez....I'd try to talk to a different rep or ask for a manager. A good majority of VS2's will be eye clean, but it's not a guaranteed thing. Size, location, type, color, etc of inclusions come into play.

While I think this stone is probably okay, what bothers me is they dismiss your concerns.

I'd just be clear that you want a gemologist to look at the stone and render an opinion concerning the clarity instead of assuming broad stroke assumptions are correct. If they give you more flack, be clear you are spending lots of money for a luxury item and have other choices.

Funny all this time I was looking at diamonds with the darkest arrows and when I got mine I only see them in special lighting so I guess it doesn’t matter or is that normal?

It's normal. Short answer is arrows don't show up as black unless your light source is obstructed, and your stone is well cut. Poorly cut stones will show up dark but maybe not in arrow shapes.

Diamond Photos & Images: Why Are There Dark Arrows?

Every Hearts & Arrows Diamond at Whiteflash.com are photographed to show the optical symmetry of the diamonds arrows. The arrows are differentiated from the rest of the diamond by the camera.

www.whiteflash.com

Just so I can catch you before it’s too late do you think this one is better since the arrows look clearer ?

2.21 Carat round diamond

This 2.21 carat round diamond I color vs2 clarity has Ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

Have you looked at any 60/60 stones to determine if you like/prefer that look? They will have a different personality than the stone you currently have.

A larger table means reduced upper girdle facets, which is where rainbow light is produced. Consequently, you end up with more bright white light return and less rainbow fire.

While this stone kicks back a 1.5 HCA, notice how fire & scintillation is downgraded to very good, from excellent?



Going with a 60/60 stone is neither good or bad, but it is different from where you are now. I made a post about this the other day to someone else. I compared a traditional Tolk cut to some 60/60 options, all from WF, so the OP could see differences.

What do you think?

Which diamond would you choose?

Nope. If I do this, I need to pay taxes on the diamond ( Us and Cad) whereas not the Us taxes if shipped in the Us. That saves me a lot of money:) You are incorrect. If shipped to Canada, you do not pay US taxes. I have bought so many things from the US and had them shipped to Canada. You...

www.pricescope.com

Here is a HCA score of the 1.7 G SI1 posted in the above link. Notice how it scores very similar to the HCA of the JA stone you found?

 

[rockysalamander]

Forget what it says in the grading report. Have you even looked at the arrows?

I thought you had me on ignore? Probably best you keep it that way.

Can you explain or label photo of what you are seeing?

 

[KKJohnson]

as I mentioned on the other thread I would inquire about this one as well

2.26 Carat round diamond

This 2.26 carat round diamond I color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[lydial]

I for the most part like the 2.27 stone and the plot isn’t really that bad. Remember it is magnified a lot, you just want eye clean, sparkly and fiery. I like the larger size if it will fit your setting - if you want a bigger diamond you need to acknowledge that priority; lots of people on PS are such purists they frown on this sentiment but honestly it is a priority for many buyers. I like the VS2 grade which is reassuring even with some small clouds (assuming the price is worth the risk of these clouds; this is why you aren’t paying a super ideal price so you are taking on that potential hiccup). The imaging is very good but is of course not “top of the line” (so what? You aren’t paying for top of the line; I like bargains). I had a 60/60 stone that always looked brilliant and I didn’t like after a while (yawn) but the angles were worse than your alternate 2.21. If you want “fire” a 60/60 isn’t as likely to grant you that fire wish. The 2.27 ct stone has decent Tolkowski classic “math” for the average angles documented, but being a GIA certified stone it will not have an AGS gemologist critique of the cut (meaning symmetry and precision). If it were me and the budget were there I would consider this a good bet over the 1.9. But you need to decide for yourself.

 

[lydial]

@Novicenovice I would feel remiss if I did not bring up the one “math” feature of the 2.27 that differentiates it from your 1.9: the star facet. The 1.9 has 45 facet and the 2.27 has a 55. I honestly don’t know if I personally could spot the difference IRL and the sweet spot is in the middle but some people (see link) think it can change the arrow reflections. I still have no idea if it makes a difference but I noticed it when looking at the certs. https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/star-facet/

 

[TODiamonds]

Can you explain or label photo of what you are seeing?

@sledge already nailed it. Was referring to symmetry of arrows as they appear on the table, not the stone as a whole. I should have been clearer.

 

[Novicenovice]

My mind is completely blown away right now by all of the intricacies in diamonds. It's incredible. You have all been so very helpful, thank you.

as usual Sledge has blown me away with the science of it all. I may need to read your responses a few times before I can fully absorb and comprehend it. Thank you so much.


On a separate note, let's compare this diamond
It has an HCA of 1.3 and states bigger sized diamonds can appear dark when viewed close up. Is this what you guys mean by a different personality?

Does that mean it does not face up as white?

2.01 Carat round diamond

This 2.01 carat round diamond I color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

This one is a bit friendlier on the budget, says it faces up darker. I am now trying to search for videos of examples showing what is meant by this to see if that’s something that would bother me. For me it’s size, how much it sparkles, how clear it looks... the only thing I was iffy about my diamond was how opaque white it looked in regular room light. Everything else apart from size was perfect.... and I like a good bargain. The 2.27 I’m not sure is a bargain. It’s $17,900 for the stone (I’ll take the price difference for the size jump if all else is good) while this 2.01 is $15k. My 1.9 was $12,740.

I havent the slightest clue in what is normal pricing.

between this one and the 2.27, any better one?

@KKJohnson I tried the 2.26 and the HCA scored over 2. idk if that’s such an awful thing but what do you think two?
@sledge @lydial @whitewave @TODiamonds

 

[rockysalamander]

@sledge already nailed it. Was referring to symmetry of arrows as they appear on the table, not the stone as a whole. I should have been clearer.

We can ask @Karl_K to be sure, but I'm pretty sure it is just the angle of the stone relative to the camera

 

[sledge]

@Novicenovice I would feel remiss if I did not bring up the one “math” feature of the 2.27 that differentiates it from your 1.9: the star facet. The 1.9 has 45 facet and the 2.27 has a 55. I honestly don’t know if I personally could spot the difference IRL and the sweet spot is in the middle but some people (see link) think it can change the arrow reflections. I still have no idea if it makes a difference but I noticed it when looking at the certs. https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/star-facet/

I'm not seeing an issue with the 45 stars.

You can't look at that number by itself. You have to consider table size, crown angle, LGF, pavilion angles and any painting/digging effects.

Perhaps @Karl_K can elaborate and provide some of his fancy renderings.

In the interim, here is some additional data to chew on.

DNA of H&A Diamonds

Ideal cut diamonds, hearts and arrows ideal cut diamonds, H&A, super ideal cuts, AGS 000, GIA triple excellent, the definitive diamond cut website, GIA or AGS graded diamonds, diamonds with Sarin AGS Zero grades are discussed in detail, brought to you by the first importers of H&A diamonds in...

www.heartsandarrows.com

Stars and lower girdle facets

hello all! I’ve tried to do some research from previous threads to see if I can get an answer to my question but nothing is spot on. I came across this article and I have a question as to its validity: https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/lower-girdles/ Are 60% stars with 80% lgfs always a deadly...

www.pricescope.com

Star facets percent info ......

Hi PS experts, Please help me understand the minor faucets cutting of this diamond: I''ve got Sarin 3D viewer result with angle info of all the facets, but no star facets percent info. So I am having hard time to interpret the result using the minor facets cutting knowledge I''ve learned from...

www.pricescope.com

LGF Depth/Length, Star Facet, and Lower half relationships

I've been doing some more light reading on the finer details, flavours, and characteristics of what can be found in a diamond. I've identified the differences between AGS reported LGF Depth vs GIA LGF Length, their typical ranges, and how their variances impact on the pavillion size, seen as...

www.pricescope.com