In the market for a round but confused about cuts and brands..

[SKR]

Like the son who keeps popping back to his mum's place for a good home cooked meal and some help with the washing, I'm back, hands clasped, looking for more good advice from fellow members here. Any advice/feedback will be greatly appreciated.

This time I am looking for a round diamond (in the H to I colour range) but I have some questions on the various cuts / grading / brands available -

1. H&A -
I have read up on the cut and understand the benefits (I think) but I have seen this cut being offered by people other than Whiteflash. I thought this was a Whiteflash patented cut so how are other people offering it? Also in your opinion are H&A cuts worth the significant premium asked for them - if you compared two well cut stones and only one was H&A would there be a noticeable difference between their light performance in a normal lit room (I am not concerned about how they perform in a lab under various instruments) ?

2. Solasfera -
These seem to be even more expensive than H&A. Is it correct that there is only one vendor for these ?

3. AGS0 -
How do these compare to H&A diamonds? I know that H&A's tend to be graded as ideal by AGS but there are AGS0 diamonds about that arent H&A. In general, all other things being equal, will an AGS0 diamond thats not H&A perform worse than a H&A diamond ?

I know I have raised a lot of questions so apologies in advance. Any pointers to the right threads would also be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 12/16/2007 11:19:51 AM
Author:SKR


Like the son who keeps popping back to his mum's place for a good home cooked meal and some help with the washing, I'm back, hands clasped, looking for more good advice from fellow members here. Any advice/feedback will be greatly appreciated.

This time I am looking for a round diamond (in the H to I colour range) but I have some questions on the various cuts / grading / brands available -

1. H&A -
I have read up on the cut and understand the benefits (I think) but I have seen this cut being offered by people other than Whiteflash. I thought this was a Whiteflash patented cut so how are other people offering it? Also in your opinion are H&A cuts worth the significant premium asked for them - if you compared two well cut stones and only one was H&A would there be a noticeable difference between their light performance in a normal lit room (I am not concerned about how they perform in a lab under various instruments) ? Lots of other company's sell Hearts and Arrows but WF is strict w/their H&A. Here is a helpful thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/images-of-h-a-vs-non-h-a-stones.74204/

2. Solasfera -
These seem to be even more expensive than H&A. Is it correct that there is only one vendor for these ? Not sure, sorry

3. AGS0 -
How do these compare to H&A diamonds? I know that H&A's tend to be graded as ideal by AGS but there are AGS0 diamonds about that arent H&A. In general, all other things being equal, will an AGS0 diamond thats not H&A perform worse than a H&A diamond ? AGS does not always equal Hearts and Arrows but the AGS000 is a very well cut diamond if it is an AGS000.

I know I have raised a lot of questions so apologies in advance. Any pointers to the right threads would also be appreciated.

Thanks

If you give us a budget we will be happy to help you look and Welcome to Pricescope!!!

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 12/16/2007 11:19:51 AM
Author:SKR

Like the son who keeps popping back to his mum''s place for a good home cooked meal and some help with the washing, I''m back, hands clasped...

What a CUTE first paragraph! I LOL''ed! (As a mom with a son who was JUST LIKE THAT, I can totally relate!!!)

My opinion on H&A is -- I LOVE IT. To me, other rounds look somewhat random and "chaotic". I love the orderliness and symmetry of H&A stones, and catching sight at times of the glittering arrows still makes me swoon!

I have never seen a Solasfera in person, but in a larger size, I think it would be smashing! TEN arrows to love!!!

Like Skippy said, give us a budget and we''ll happily help you spend your money!

 

[SKR]

Thanks for the posts and the link. I dont have a specific budget in mind (well I do but its kinda fungible) but I am looking for a 4-5ct stone.

 

[peridot83]

This is how i understand it:

Hearts and Arrows is a type of facets/cut pattern, that is like lynn B said, very "orderly" looking, provides nice contrast, and it''s always nice seeing the arrows in pictures. Most diamond vendors offer this pattern and is probably one of the most popular ones for rounds. Hearts and Arrows does not guarantee light performance Just guarantees the type of facet pattern.

Solasfera is a new variation on hearts and arrows. Many vendors haven''t picked it up and started promoting it yet, but Good Old Gold has and is promoting it. Solasfera cut diamonds also claim to not just have a pretty facet pattern, but to control for light leakage etc. So less guess work if looking in person, than a Hearts & Arrows diamond. (though i mean with an idealscope image it''s pretty easy to sort H & A diamonds out)

AGS rated diamonds is just a rating of the light proporties of the diamond. It can be in a solasfera pattern, a hearts and arrows pattern, or anythign else. All it''s rating is the light performance/appearance of the diamond. AGS0 is the best, but even an AGS000 is better than 90% of the diamonds you''ll see out in the world.

 

[SKR]

Thanks for the above post. So most vendors can supply H&A and Idealscope and other reports/pictures should sort out the good ones from the bad ones?

Solasfera interests me but they seem to come at a huge premium to H&A and I am not sure they are worth the extra.

I will also keep a look out for AGS0 stones.

Also how yellow will an I colour look in a round. I recall reading a while back that rounds hide their colour well.

 

[sera]

Date: 12/16/2007 1:01:50 PM
Author: Lynn B

My opinion on H&A is -- I LOVE IT. To me, other rounds look somewhat random and ''chaotic''. I love the orderliness and symmetry of H&A stones, and catching sight at times of the glittering arrows still makes me swoon!

I have never seen a Solasfera in person, but in a larger size, I think it would be smashing! TEN arrows to love!!!

I totally agree... I LOVE to catch glimpses of my H&A. Prior to getting it, the H&A was something I thought would be nice, but if mine didn''t have it that was fine too. But now that I have those arrows... I LOVE them! I love the precision of them and the fire that comes off them.

I also have never seen a Solasfera in person; I think it would be great in larger diamonds.

Date: 12/16/2007 4:54:20 PM
Author: SKR
Also how yellow will an I colour look in a round. I recall reading a while back that rounds hide their colour well.

You should do a search for some of the I diamonds and even those with J, K, L, etc... in a well cut diamond they do not face up yellow though some may have a slight warmth when viewed from the side, placed next to a higher color or to color-sensitive people. You could always call in an I diamond to see if it looks white or warm to you... it''s really preference whether you think I is too warm or not.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 12/16/2007 4:54:20 PM
Author: SKR
Thanks for the above post. So most vendors can supply H&A and Idealscope and other reports/pictures should sort out the good ones from the bad ones?

Solasfera interests me but they seem to come at a huge premium to H&A and I am not sure they are worth the extra.

I will also keep a look out for AGS0 stones.

Also how yellow will an I colour look in a round. I recall reading a while back that rounds hide their colour well.

There are several on here who do.

Goodoldgold

Whiteflash

James Allen

Wink Jones

Engagementringsdirect

NiceIce

To name a few.


Personally, I don't know that a Solesfera is worth it. A beautifully cut regular H&A's is, well, beautiful! But maybe you should try to see one if you haven't.

As for color, that tends to be somewhat personal for one thing. Some are more sensitive than others. Also, the bigger the diamond, the easier it will be to see some warmth. However, you are looking for a very hard to find size, in a well cut stone. Not sure just how much beggers can be choosers here.

I would try and get to stores that carry branded stones like Hearts on Fire, etc., and AGS0's, to see the difference. You want to look at really well cut stones, as that will help hide a bit, much better than a so so cut.


p.s. You're going to need to contact vendors and have them look for this, no one has too many in this size laying around.

 

[Regular Guy]

Maybe below (oops...color that gone...) and above what you were looking for...but some kind of idea?

Other options I saw available were certified by EGL, and so, more circumspect...

 

[peridot83]

The size stone you are looking for is very rare, so based on that:

Color is a personal preference thing: for a diamond that size I wouldn''t like to go further down than a G ...but that''s just me. Just keep in mind that in that big a stone the color will be magnified

You should not rule out EGL stones per se. EGL isn''t as strict a grading lab as GIA or AGS. However, that doesn''t mean they don''t get excellent diamonds submitted to them. You just have to be more careful (i.e. send the stone to an independent appraiser before making final purchase). Considering you are spending some serious money...this is what I would do:

1. As Ellen suggeted, start calling up all the vendors and see who will be willing to work with you to find this diamond
2. Come up with your budget, color, & clarity guidelines...but leave everything else up for grabs
3. See what the vendor comes up with, if there are acceptable AGS or GIA stones in your range I would stick with them. But if there are not, I think you should not be afraid to look into EGL stones
4. Once the vendor has brought a few stones in. Look at their Idealscope or ASET images and pick from there. They can also give you real pics of the stone, so you can see if you like the facet pattern.
5. IF you are looking at a stone that is NOT GIA or AGS certified, have it sent to an independent appraiser, to make sure that the inclusion and color grades are what you wish.

I would NOT at this size limit, yourself to any facet pattern or lab report until you get a sense of what is out there. Also, don''t be afraid to wait for what you want. Good luck with your search

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Hi SKR,

You have very good technical questions, but when you are considering a stone of such size, there are some business-matters that you should understand.

At this point in time, since I think mid-2006, there is a shortage of rough of higher sizes. Prices of this rough are very high, and the polished of higher sizes is rapidly becoming more expensive. In other words, in these sizes, all stones can be sold quickly, and if that happens, all this rough is sold at very high prices.

If in a certain size, average cut-quality is easy to sell at high prices, it becomes very difficult to remain competitive with a higher cut-quality. That is one of the reasons why you will find very few to none available with a superior cut-quality.

At the same time, the market for higher cut-quality-stones is generally a younger market, with a budget that allows purchases mostly of stones between 0.50 and 1.70 Cts. In a high cut-quality, stones of 4 and 5 Cts generally do not sell as quickly, and it is a second reason why there is little to no availability with a superior cut-quality.

If you really want to go for this exclusive product which combines that size with superior cut-quality, I think that you should consider having something cut-to-order. It is not a simple procedure, but you probably end up with a truly unique stone.

Live long,

 

[oldminer]

The beauty of the diamond pertains mostly to how it performs with lighting. Symmettry is a generally more minor characteristic and branding is rarely more than minor, too. There are some exceptions, but in general, light behavior characteristics denote most of the beauty.

Paul''s post is very onformative when it comes to finding larger finely cut diamonds because how else could we know about the supply and market conditions. This situation has more of an effect on what you might find than anything else. The market for super ideal cuts does not yet exist on the biggest stones apparently. It may in the future as today''s young buyers want to trade up to larger diamonds.

Cut is important and brnding sometimes helps you to find what you like. Finely cut diamonds of a given shape tend to be cut in similar ways and the difference from one brand to another may be of less importance than what your eyes can detect.

 

[Regular Guy]

Ok...second try...two options, two purporteds...worth a look?

Blue Nile references a big selection of options.
Purportedly...their signature selection is in house...and so they can even look at them for you directly (rather than calling over to Vinnie)
Also, purportedly, this signature series, for rounds, shows Hearts & Arrows.

What''s not to like?

Throw in 2 AGS0s for light performance...you''ve got some options.

4.04 I SI 1

and

4.42 H VS2

they''ll set you back $86K and $106K respectively, but who''s counting.

Best wishes..

 

[JohnQuixote]

As usual, the Pricescope community has provided good insight.

Regarding question #3, here''s a recent thread with similar overtones.