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I''m starting to get cold feet about purchasing online

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niceguymr

Rough_Rock
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Apr 20, 2006
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80
I'm beginning to become a little skeptical about this whole online diamond purchase thing. Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea, but the more I think about dropping close to $8 or $9K on a stone without seeing it first just to save maybe $1K, I start to get a little nervous. THIS IS NOT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING ANY B&M DEALER HAS TOLD ME. In fact, based on some of the prices I've come to the local dealers with, I've been told to buy from here.

First of all, I've decided I don't want to use any appraisers I've learned about from this website. There's only 3 within driving distance from me that are listed using Pricescopes appraiser locator. There are thousands of jewelers near where I live and I'm confident I can find a qualified appraiser who will give me an unbiased opinion about the stone if I'm willing to pay them for their services. I will simply present the stone to the appraiser as something I've already had for a while and I'm getting it insured, not as something I'm considering buying.

My question is this...

What if I get the stone sent directly to me from a 'Pricescope' recommended dealer (any of them... Whiteflash, James Allen, USA Certed, whichever) and I bring it to an appraiser of MY choosing and I'm told that the diamond doesn't match up with the GIA certification? OK then... maybe my first appraiser isn't right. Let's say (hypothetically) I get it reappraised by a second (and completely unafiliated to the 1st appraiser) and am told the exact same thing as the first appraiser.

Do I then just send it back and get an immediate rerfund or does the seller require the buyer to jump through all sorts of hoops that make it impossible to get a refund? How can either side (buyer or seller) protect themselves from a fraudulent swap? I just don't see how an online dealer can offer any sort of return. You would think that unethical people would swap stones and say they got ripped off. Who's going to decide who's right? The more I think of it, the more I become skeptical. After having gone personally and looked at so many diamonds locally, I can easily imagine certificates incorrectly matched with stones.

Also, I've read here that there have been few if any dissatisfied purchasers from any of the major online dealers listed on this site. But who's to say the buyers used an appraiser that wasn't recommended by PS or a PS dealer? I know names like David Atlas are big on this website, but I've asked about 10 different jewelers (some of who I have had good business dealings in the past having made large purchases fro and have been in business for 25+ years) and they've never heard of him. This is going to sound a little 'conspiracy' crazy, but what if all the dealers and appraisers on this website are in cuhoots with eachother? It's not that far fetched of an idea considering the amount of money to be made in the diamond business.
 

dani13

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
6,183
Whoa! Try to relax a little there. A PS vendor will usually ship directly to the appraiser, and you can have the stone appraised there right in front of you. This way, you get to see the stone before you purchase it and review it carefully with YOUR appraiser of choice. This is usually standard- just make sure you choose a company that offeres this to buy from.

You need to do what makes you feel comfortable. If you dont want to buy from an online vendor, then that is okay. Just realize that there is plenty of opportunity to view a stone before you purchase it. And when it comes to swapping, most professionals in this business are exactly that. THEY ARE PROFESSIONALS. They are most likely not going to risk their whole career on an $8K stone. Really!

Good luck with your purchase!
 

indecisive

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Messages
1,240
I can''t really tell you anything to help you except my experience. My boyfriend and I bought our ring from Whiteflash and received all the AGS paperwork and a letter of verification. We took it to a local appraiser and she was very impressed with it and said it matched up. Everything went totally well and you have 10 days from when you get the stone to tell them you want to send it back. Also, I can be a conspiracy theorist too but think about it logically. Why would a vendor try and cheat you out of one stone and risk losing a huge amount of future business and legal trouble, possible jail time, etc. for one diamond? Unless you are buying a 40ct D IF, where they could take the money and run to Mexico and be on the run for the rest of their days, it just wouldn''t be worth it or make sense. In the end you have to do what makes you feel best though. I would really recommend an independent appraiser no matter where you buy though. You really don''t want to deal with biased opinions and vested interest.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
I can understand why you might feel this way. But I do not think your concerns are true here. A couple of months ago we ordered a stone from Winfield''s, and I told Wink at the time that I was not sure the stone was exactly what I wanted, and he assured me the return was no problem. I took the stone to a local jeweler (gemologist) to verify that it was the stone on the certificate. It was not that I didn''t trust Wink, because I did and DO! But I wanted to be able to say we checked out the stone as a smart thing to do when one is making a big purchase! I saw no need for another full written appraisal since my information from Wink would have been enough to put the diamond on our insurance. Anyway, I decided that stone was not quite what I wanted and I called to tell them I was returning it. They were gracious and kind and gave me instructions on returning the stone. I was sent a refund immediately and it arrived in about 3 days.

Today we ordered another diamond, which I hope is just what I''m looking for! The jeweler who owns Dimend Scassi, Issac Gottesman, also assured me I had 30 days for an unconditional return. I also have lifetime trade-in privileges in case I ever want a larger or higher quality stone. It will come with a full appraisal which I will also verify locally. My brother-in-law ordered a diamond ring from WhiteFlash last week and it came on Tuesday..it is gorgeous! Over the last few months, I have also had contact with Jonathan at Good Old Gold and James Allen and was pleased with their responses to my emails as well. I read lots of posts on here to see which jewelers had positive feedback before deciding who to contact.

But the whole point is, you aren''t stuck buying a $9000 stone without seeing it. They can''t exactly send a ring out for us to look at without payment! So you pay, hopefully love the diamond and keep it. If not, send it back following the vendors return instructions which are not complicated. As far as I''m concerned, the vendors here are the safest to buy from because negative experiences ARE reported here. They have everything to gain by giving good service so we''ll report that here. So that does give us some protection. And certified stones are definitely the safest to buy because as you said, any qualified gemologist should be able to tell if the stone matches the certificate. My new stone from Dimend Scaasi has the GIA cert. number laser inscribed on the girdle, which is even better!

One more thing, I have found these jewelers more honest than the local jewelers who had poorer quality stones at ideal stone prices. Issac at Dimend Scaasi told me the best stone of the three I was looking at was the least expensive one. He could have very easily done the opposite, and I appreciated that very much.
 

Modified Brilliant

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
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Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,529
I know names like David Atlas are big on this website, but I''ve asked about 10 different jewelers (some of who I have had good business dealings in the past having made large purchases fro and have been in business for 25+ years) and they''ve never heard of him.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You would be amazed at how many retail jewelers in the US have never heard of Pricescope either!
I''m also willing to bet that there''s lots of jewelers in the US that have never heard of me or many other PS appraisers either!

Most appraisers that are active on PS are providing alot of their own time in educating consumers and answering questions.

IT IS OUR PLEASURE TO DO SO
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www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
 

jaz464

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Date: 4/26/2006 9:23:30 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I can understand why you might feel this way. But I do not think your concerns are true here. A couple of months ago we ordered a stone from Winfield''s, and I told Wink at the time that I was not sure the stone was exactly what I wanted, and he assured me the return was no problem. I took the stone to a local jeweler (gemologist) to verify that it was the stone on the certificate. It was not that I didn''t trust Wink, because I did and DO! But I wanted to be able to say we checked out the stone as a smart thing to do when one is making a big purchase! I saw no need for another full written appraisal since my information from Wink would have been enough to put the diamond on our insurance. Anyway, I decided that stone was not quite what I wanted and I called to tell them I was returning it. They were gracious and kind and gave me instructions on returning the stone. I was sent a refund immediately and it arrived in about 3 days.

Today we ordered another diamond, which I hope is just what I''m looking for! The jeweler who owns Dimend Scassi, Issac Gottesman, also assured me I had 30 days for an unconditional return. I also have lifetime trade-in privileges in case I ever want a larger or higher quality stone. It will come with a full appraisal which I will also verify locally. My brother-in-law ordered a diamond ring from WhiteFlash last week and it came on Tuesday..it is gorgeous! Over the last few months, I have also had contact with Jonathan at Good Old Gold and James Allen and was pleased with their responses to my emails as well. I read lots of posts on here to see which jewelers had positive feedback before deciding who to contact.

But the whole point is, you aren''t stuck buying a $9000 stone without seeing it. They can''t exactly send a ring out for us to look at without payment! So you pay, hopefully love the diamond and keep it. If not, send it back following the vendors return instructions which are not complicated. As far as I''m concerned, the vendors here are the safest to buy from because negative experiences ARE reported here. They have everything to gain by giving good service so we''ll report that here. So that does give us some protection. And certified stones are definitely the safest to buy because as you said, any qualified gemologist should be able to tell if the stone matches the certificate. My new stone from Dimend Scaasi has the GIA cert. number laser inscribed on the girdle, which is even better!

One more thing, I have found these jewelers more honest than the local jewelers who had poorer quality stones at ideal stone prices. Issac at Dimend Scaasi told me the best stone of the three I was looking at was the least expensive one. He could have very easily done the opposite, and I appreciated that very much.
Actually, many vendors do send out a diamond for you to look at without payment, as Dani mentioned. That is why many of us here have a diamond we are interested in sent to an independent appraiser of our choice to view a diamond PRIOR to deciding if we want to make the purchase.
 

Jelly

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
2,518
I completely understand your fears about these companies. For all you know, Pricescope is just a scam! Fortunately for us diamond consumers, it''s not. If you are unsure about the validity of these companies, do a search through the Better Business Bureau: Link to BBB

I just did a search on Whiteflash and here''s what they had to say:

Original Business Start Date: 01/01/83
Principal: Brian Gavin, Co-Owner
Phone Number: 832-252-6770
Fax Number: 832-252-6771
Email Address: [email protected]
Web Site Address: www.whiteflash.com
www.whiteflash.reliabilitymall.com
Membership Status: This company is a member
Date Joined BBB: 05/16/01
Type of Business: Gold, Silver & Platinum Dealers

BBB MEMBERSHIP


This company has been a member of this Better Business Bureau since May 2001. This means it supports the Bureau''s services to the public and meets our membership standards.


PROGRAM PARTICIPATION


This company has agreed to use special complaint handling procedures including arbitration, if necessary to resolve disputes through their participation in the following programs: BBB CARE; Membership Identification Program; BBBOnLine.


NATURE OF BUSINESS


This company specializes in the sell of high end loose diamonds, settings and gold jewelry on the internet.


CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE


Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau.


A "Satisfactory Record" means the company has been in business for at least 12 months, and properly addressed matters referred by the Bureau. The company does not have an unusual volume or pattern of complaints, or any government actions involving its marketplace conduct. The Bureau understands and has no concerns about the company''s products services and type of business.


When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company''s size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them.


The Bureau processed one complaint about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. It was closed more than 12 months ago.


Complaints Concerned
Product Issues: 1
Outcome of the complaint -
Administratively Closed: 1
 

Jelly

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
2,518
Here''s the results of Good Old Gold, another popular jeweler that is often discussed on PS:

GOOD OLD GOLD, INC.
5278 Sunrise Highway
Massapequa Park, NY 11762
View Location Map

Original Business Start Date: 1/1/1980

Principal: Helen Weingarten, President


Phone Number: (516) 798-5151


Fax Number: (516) 798-6154


Website: www.goodoldgold.com


Type of Business: Jewelers-Retail


Membership Status:
This company is a member

This company is an online member


The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.
BBB Membership
This company is a member of the Better Business Bureau. This means it supports the Bureau''s services to the public and meets our membership standards.
Program Participation

This business participates in the Bureau’s MIP and BBBOnLine programs and has committed to following ethical business practices. As part of these programs, it has agreed to use special procedures consisting of mediation and arbitration, if necessary, to resolve complaints.
Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this business has a satisfactory record with the Bureau. A “satisfactory record” means that a company has been in business for at least 12 months, and has properly addressed complaints referred to it by the Bureau. The business cannot have an unusual volume or pattern of complaints, or any government actions against it involving its marketplace conduct. The Bureau must understand and have no concerns about the business’s products, services and type of business.

The company''s size, volume of business, and number of transactions may have a bearing on the number of complaints received by the BBB. The number of complaints filed against a company may not be as important as the type of complaints, and how the company handled them. The BBB generally does not pass judgment on the validity of complaints filed.


This Business has had no complaints filed against it in the last 36 months.


Report as of: 4/26/2006


 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
58,547
Date: 4/26/2006 11:08:11 PM
Author: jazmine
Actually, many vendors do send out a diamond for you to look at without payment, as Dani mentioned. That is why many of us here have a diamond we are interested in sent to an independent appraiser of our choice to view a diamond PRIOR to deciding if we want to make the purchase.
Oh, of course. I meant they aren''t going to send them to our homes without payment! But the nearest independent appraiser listed here was several hours away, so that was not worth the trouble. I didn''t have to pay anything to have the other diamond verified locally and I sent it back and got my money returned. So it didn''t cost me anything but the postage and insurance.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
If the extra $1k gives you an extra $1k of confidence and peace of mind then take what you learned here and shop locally.
The important thing to is to do what is right for you.
If exchanging the extra money is worth the added benefits then go for it :}
If you find a stone local that you want advice on then get as much information as you can and ask here.
The kewl thing about pricescope is there is a lot of people that don''t care where you get the diamond they will help the best they can no matter what.
I get the same satisfaction in helping someone find a kicken diamond no matter if they are buying online or locally.
Just do your homework either way, study the material here then check out who ever you decide to go with be they online or local.
 

niceguymr

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
80
OK... I'm starting to ease up on this issue a bit, but here are my issues/questions/concerns.

As far as return policies and procedures... I cant seem to find any specific information on any of the PS dealer websites that provide specific information. They all just say something like... "In order to process a return, simply contact our Customer Service department ... They will provide you simple instructions ... bla bla bla". I guess I just like to read the fine print before I drop $10K on something I have yet to see.

My other question is this...

For all those that are saying that they've used an independant appraiser of their choice... I'm wondering if those appraisers are listed or affiliated with PS or if they are TRULY and 100% independant with NO connection to PS or any of it's dealers. I want to use an appraiser that has absolutely no knowledge of PS or any of it's dealers to be certain (that may sound paranoid to you, but I've known of even more intricate scams)

Anyway... I've heard plenty of stories of people getting their stones 'switched' by the setters and I guess I'm pretty paranoid b/c of that too. I live in Miami, FL and there are plenty of scammers waiting for opportunities. I hope you all can understand. Just today I heard of a guy who this happened to at a very popular jewelry exchange where the guy came to pick up his ring and his stone had been switched. He put up a huge (verbal) fight until the cops showed up. Then they arrested him b/c he refused to leave until they gave him his original stone... and who could blame him. End result... Dealer 1, Buyer 0, and the majority of people would never hear of this story and therefore the dealer suffers no loss.

There is a lot of shadiness in the diamond business and that is very well known (at least here in South Florida). Just today, I was in the Seybold Building (The heart of the diamond trade in South Florida) and I felt like I was in a Middle Eastern Flea Market. You can spend days in there having dealers undercut eachother one by one until eventually you walk out of there with a diamond at wholesale cost. It's not worth mine or anyone's time.

Also, anybody can put a GIA certificate with any stone and sell it. And once the discrepency is discovered, it becomes a battle of my word against yours. The scammer usually wins b/c it's easier to prove a switch didn't take place (ie. nothing happened) than did (ie. something happened)
 

lil_jay78

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
195
You know, I was in the same position as you were a few months ago, prior to getting my stone from WF. When my friend first mentioned that he got his diamond online, I thought to myself, "are you kidding me?" But then he introduced me to PS and all the help that I got was incredible. I had a lot of hangups about ordering online even after going through all of the tutorials and everything. I was still leaning towards a B&M, but in the end, I realized that the stone I ended up with would''ve been at least 1.5k more at the B&M I was thinking about. Personally, I don''t like being nagged and pressured into making a decision like they did at ALL of the B&M''s I walked into when I was looking for my diamod.

I think you are being very careful about making your purchase, which is great. Always err on the side of caution, right? But just like everyone else said, a company would not try to scam you for $5k or $6k, risking potentially 10''s if not 100''s of thousands in lost business. In the story you mentioned, just by that one guy, I''m sure there are now at least 50-100 people who have heard of that story...all of whom could have been potiential customers at said store. And thinking that PS is all a big huge set up(ala Matrix) crossed my mind for a bit once, but I think it''s just too much work to try to scam some people. There are too many experts out there. I used an independent appraiser to check out my stone and it matched up perfectly.

One thing I was gonna say about a lot of the local jewelers, even those that have been in business forover 25 years, will never have heard of PS because many of them do not use the internet to conduct their business. The local jeweler I am dealing with to make my setting has never heard of PS and has been in the business for over 60 years. So you could easily find an independent appraiser who is completely unaware of the existence of PS, but how would you find out about the reputation of such an appraiser w/o an online forum. There are other forums out there, so you could always use those. I checked them out and I found that PS was just a very good community where everyone is helping each other out to get the most bang for their buck...and to do so safely.

But to say that PS is a scam...well, it could just be part of a bigger picture...where the B&M''s are in control of everything... I mean, honestly, I just think it''s a bit of a stretch. And like others have chimed, check out the BBB listings for any business you''re planning on purchasing from.

krikey, sorry for jumping all around...I''m herky jerky like that :)
 

blodthecat

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
805
Hi and wecome to pricescope,

From reading all of the above, I think that buying online might not be right for everyone.

For the comfort factor, you might be better dealing with a B&M who you are familiar and comfortable with. Purchasing a diamond should be enjoyable, and not a stressful process.

So go with what feels right for you!
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atroop711

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,844
I know this is a HUGE purchase but you are thinking too much and this is feeding into your anxiety and paranoia. Don''t do this to yourself, stress isnt'' good for you.

Let me start over (because I just sounded like a mom, which I am and I am sorry for that).

HI...I live in NYC and have access to god only knows how many jewelers, appraisers, loose stones, ect. After meeting with many and viewing loose stones, we decided to buy online from Whiteflash. I went to a few very well known diamond guys here (the ones that sell to the big jewelry stores, the ones that you need an apt and a connection to see) and I still chose to get more for my money. I know this is such a scary concept but if you do your research and see you will deal with someone reputable (and not think everyone it in this together to get us all), your buying experience will be a great one. Our experience was so relaxed and fun.

You asked about what if you bought a stone at an online vendor and didn''t want it. They have their unconditional money back guarantee (some within 10 days). I have read (just a handful of times on here) that ppl had to return a stone for whatever reason and their money was returned within a reasonable time.

All appraisers will not know eachother but just remember this is a business. Why would someone want you to go somewhere else when they are offering you the same thing OR they can recommend THEIR guy for an appraiser.

We also chose to buy online to save some money. When the purchase is that big and the tax is over 1K that makes a difference. I actually put that money saved into the ring (we had it custom made)

Whatever you choose I hope your buying experience is a great one. Good Luck!!

Annette
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
All of the independant appraisers listed are independant of Pricescope. That also means that PS does not favor or recommend one vendor over another. In my opinion it is just important to research your Appraiser as your diamond. Not all appraisers are created equally. for example, some use a master set of CZ''s to do their appraisal''s while others use a master set of real diamonds. There are 2 appraisers in Florida that are highly respected here on PS. RocDoc and Richard Sherwood. i have personally used Richard and had to ship my ring to him because I''m not in Florida. I know both he and RockDoc will also be more than happy to have you present for the Appraisal.


I also want to second what storm said. If you don''t feel comforable buying online, don''t. There are very good local jewelers, just do your research here and be the most educated buyer you can be
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perry

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
2,547
First of all, I''ve decided I don''t want to use any appraisers I''ve learned about from this website. There''s only 3 within driving distance from me that are listed using Pricescopes appraiser locator. There are thousands of jewelers near where I live and I''m confident I can find a qualified appraiser who will give me an unbiased opinion about the stone if I''m willing to pay them for their services. I will simply present the stone to the appraiser as something I''ve already had for a while and I''m getting it insured, not as something I''m considering buying.


Only three within driving distance - how awfull. There is not a single pricescope listed appraiser in the States of Wisconsin and Minnesota. Of course, this depends on your definition of "Driving distance."

However, that being said (a bit in jest): If you have a good local independent appraiser - feel free to use them. The key here is independence; and I see no reason for the sham at the end: go ahead and present it as a new purchase. To me there is an interesting question here: You want an honest appraisal - but you wish to seek it by being dishonest about what it is for (you think a good "apprasier of people" will not figure it out).

I would also suggest caution when dealing with appraisers who work in jewelry stores. While there are many who are very honest and straight - many also also are not so straight and tend to appraise based on how it will best help their store. I''m not sure how to sort most of the appraisers out up front - especially if I''ve never dealt with them before: That is why I use independent appraisers.


I know names like David Atlas are big on this website, but I''ve asked about 10 different jewelers (some of who I have had good business dealings in the past having made large purchases fro and have been in business for 25+ years) and they''ve never heard of him.

Have you tried asking long term established independent appraisers in your area if they had heard of Dave Atlas (I''m betting they have). Why would you expect a jewelry store to know of an appraiser 1/2 the way accross the country?

However, it is interesting that an older jeweler in Sheboygan Wisconsin (a small community on the shores of Lake Michagan) that I met with did in fact recognize the name of Dave Atlas and indicated that he had no problem shipping a diamond to him. Must be the cow factor - or the UFO''s, or perhaps the bratworst.



Perry
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
I actually went to several fine jewelers before deciding to buy on PriceScope. But finding a good selection of Ideal cut stones in the right size to choose from was MUCH harder in regular stores than it is online. If someone doesn''t care about the cost, I''d recommend Tiffany''s. You really can''t go wrong there. But I found mostly premium cut stones at the other jewelers and they were priced higher than the ones I have looked at from these vendors for ideal cuts.

I used a local jeweler who does appraisals. It would work best to not tell him that it is a new stone if he also sells diamonds. But plenty of jewelers do insurance appraisals if you don''t have good access to an independent one.
 

niceguymr

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
80
All of the independant appraisers listed are independant of Pricescope. That also means that PS does not favor or recommend one vendor over another...

There are 2 appraisers in Florida that are highly respected here on PS. RocDoc and Richard Sherwood. i have personally used Richard and had to ship my ring to him because I'm not in Florida. I know both he and RockDoc will also be more than happy to have you present for the Appraisal.
This is what I'm talking about.

I find it interesting that RocDoc (Bill Liebrum) lists several PS dealers on his website and vice versa. Allthough he explicity says on his website that "We do not accept payment from these sellers. We strictly work for consumers", he also says "Contact the dealers listed above who will send us your choice of diamonds for checking for you without charging your credit card in advance or requiring a wire transfer payment." That statement right there takes away any notion that he's completely independant.

If people don't find that even slightly questionable, then they are simply being naive.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
9,170
Date: 4/27/2006 9:07:08 AM
Author: niceguymr

This is what I'm talking about.

I find it interesting that RocDoc (Bill Liebrum) lists several PS dealers on his website and vice versa. Allthough he explicity says on his website that 'We do not accept payment from these sellers. We strictly work for consumers', he also says 'Contact the dealers listed above who will send us your choice of diamonds for checking for you without charging your credit card in advance or requiring a wire transfer payment.' That statement right there takes away any notion that he's completely independant.

If people don't find that even slightly questionable, then they are simply being naive.
Not really - he says to contact the dealer because YOU have to make the arrangements with the dealer. He can't do it for you, or then it appears as though he IS favoring vendors.

Look, there is possibility to be scammed in any transaction - online or offline. The way to avoid that is to research vendors (both online and offline) and figure out what you're most comfortable with. Some have been kind enough to give you some homework already on a few of the vendors here and the BBB report.

You're going to have to buy from someone, and that someone has to be someone you can establish trust in. Frankly, I don't see you being able to purchase online, but that's just my gut feeling. So, find a local guy, establish a rapport, and buy from him.

Regarding "naive".....well, I'd suggest that "completely and unreasonably paranoid" is at the other end of the spectrum. There is a *vast* middle ground between the two extremes. This is no different than any other purchase. Do the homework, and use your sound judgment to make a selection.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
NiceGuy, you might consider using Joseph Tenhagen in Miami as your appraiser. He''s well known, with a good rep.

If you''re buying an ideal cut diamond, you should be aware that many appraisers are not familiar enough with these diamonds to price them properly. Especially super ideal H&A stones. Many don''t even have the equipment to recognize them.

Also, if you bring the stone in representing it as an "old" stone, with no documentation, then the appraiser might not assign the premium that comes with an AGS or GIA "certified" diamond. They trade for more on the market than a non-certified stone.

I would be upfront with whoever you have appraise it. You don''t have to show them the documenation first, but just tell them that you''ve got a "certified" ideal cut or super ideal cut diamond that you''d like appraised, and are they comfortable with and equipped to appraise such a stone.
 

bstraszheim

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Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
533
I have made several purchases from Whiteflash. My largest was a .60 stone, so I am not in the same league as your purchase of 10K, but seriously, ask yourself, why would they switch out your stone?? You also have a 10 day, unconditional, refund period from them. If you don''t like the stone, send it back.

It may be a bit of a drive for you, but you might try J.R. Dunn Jewellers, they have a location on Las Olas Blvd in Ft. Lauderdale, and another on Federal Highway in Lighthouse Point. They have diamonds in the 100K, and plenty of loose certified diamonds. You would have to find out if they have an H&A stones. This way you can see for yourself what you are purchasing, before you purchase it. Maybe it would ease your peace of mind to get a diamond that is laser inscribed with the AGS/ GIA number. That way, when you get the stone back, you can verify that it is the same. The Lighthouse Point store has their workshop in full view if you are in the store. You could go choose a stone, choose a setting and have them set it in front of you. There is no way that they could switch the stone.

At some point you have to put faith in the person you are buying from. If you seriously can''t do that, then pick up a rock from your driveway, polish it on the front of your shirt and set it in a twist tie. You can be 100000% guaranteed that it hasn''t been switched and is real. It won''t be a diamond, but you will have peace of mind.

I wish you well with your search,

Bridget
 

portoar

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Messages
646
I am not in your league . . . but I did buy some .8 ctw diamond stud earrings from Whiteflash. I was impressed with the speed of delivery (next day) and the packaging. They were too small for me, so I called them and said I wanted to return them. No problem. I had my refund within a week.

Later I decided to try again and ordered a larger pair. No problems. Next day delivery. Gorgeous diamonds. I saved about $1500 (including tax savings) based on the purchase price + tax for similar super premium diamond studs from my local B&M.

I would not hesitate to buy online again, and am planning a future pendant purchase, possibly custom made, and will again go the internet route.
 

Defender

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2005
Messages
104
I am a shopper too, but after a few months around here, I have arrived at a good comfort level with many of the folks that I have found here on PriceScope. Sure, Internet diamond shopping is not something for everyone, but being too much of a skeptic, or trying to make an Oliver Stone type conspiracy theory out of the PriceScope/vendors/appraisers coonection seems a bit over-the-edge to me too.

On the contrary, I have visited brick and mortar stores after getting an education on PriceScope and found that things can be very unsettling in another way. A couple of local stores pushed EGL stones, and were a bit taken back by my questions about cut stats on stones.I get the sense than many B&M stores make a nice margin by relying on the lack of knowledge of the typical customer too...

For me to be arguing with a so -called brick and mortar diamond merchant who touted a stone as a "perfect cut" that a 73 % depth and a 70% table is not optimum for an Emerald is a good illustration of this.

You can cut through much of that crap here by dealing with certs and learning about these basic issues. If you do not want to buy you do not have to, but I see very little in the way of horror stories about the major merchants on Price Scope. Or, I guess that you can use this PriceScope forum as a free information service so that you have the background to shop around, and ask tough questions of your local merchant when looking at stones.

Armed with lots of knowledge, you can try to make the best deal on a good stone with your favorite local merchant....Or, you do as many others have done, and you can try to work with a chosen reliable PriceScope merchant so that you get warm and fuzzy about the process and their return policies before taking the plunge..
 

Small

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
958
Sounds like you would be best served to find a trusted local b&m store even if it costs more. Buying online isn''t for everyone. Have you contacted any of the PS vendors? First thing you should do in your buying process is find a b&m or online vendor that you are completely comfortable with and establish a relationship with them. Your sale shouldn''t be pressure filled. You should be armed with all of your knowledge and get exactly what you are looking for within your budget.
I used Richard Sherwood and was very very pleased with the report/work up he did on my diamond. I picked him on my own...no referral from Wink my vendor. In fact most of the vendors will do an insurance appraisal for you but I wanted a detailed report so that if I ever had to replace my stone I''d have alot of documentation that they''d have to follow. I researched the people I was interested in and decided on one I was comfortable with. I would have been happy to use him, rockdoc, neil, or david atlas. Why don''t you research some independents in your area (or take the one Richard gave as a suggestion unless you think that''s biased too) and choose one of those. I agree with others about being careful if taking it an appraiser out of a b&m...how independent do you think they will be knowing maybe if they tell you the stone is a dog they could get you to buy something from them??? I''m not saying everyone is like this but I''m sure there are more than a few who think like this as we''ve heard the stories here. I also think that if you expect someone to be honest with you you should be upfront and honest with them. They aren''t naive either ya know!
Good luck in your search...I hope you find exactly what you are looking for and work with people that won''t make your purchase stressful and you''ll have some peace of mind for your 10k budget.
 

Allisonfaye

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
1,456
I think it is great that you are considering all these points.

Personally, I like being able to touch what I am going to buy and see it. But I think unless you go to a higher end B&M, the selection can often be total garbage. I too find some of the sales tactics in these places unsettling. Even the other day, I went into Tiffany''s just for fun. The conversation I heard between an uneducated shopper and a salesperson was scary. The customer asked if this diamond was a good cut. The salesperson said it was perfect. What kind of answer is that? The customer asked where his diamonds come from. He said they had their own mines all over and the implication was that they don''t deal in any conflict diamonds, which is total crap. I think the uneducated consumer is responsible for doing his homework but the salespeople are (not always) just as slimey in a B&M. And whose to say THEY won''t switch a diamond? Why would you have an easier time returning to them and getting your money back?

You can use a credit card and dispute anything you aren''t comfortable with. I did that when I purchased online. I know the wire transfer price is cheaper but I wasn''t comfortable doing it. Now, if I bought again from GOG, I would be.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
I just wanted to agree that there could be problems using a local jeweler to appraise if they are unscrupulous enough to want to try to steal your business. I used one only to verify that the stone was as represented on the certificate.

I also agree with Allisonfaye that to me, there is possibly more risk of something bad happening with a B&M jeweler than those here. I have no way of polling the customers of the local jeweler about diamond quality, satisfaction with service, etc. I recently had a ring sized and had loose melee as a result. I had to find out the workmanship was bad the hard way! At least here I see pictures of the finished products and hear praise and concerns about the various vendors. I do not have that luxury regarding any of the jewelry stores I visited in person. I just feel very, very fortunate that I found PriceScope when my husband said to pick out rings for our anniversary. I hate to think what I would have gotten (and paid!) if I hadn''t!
 

dbgaap

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2004
Messages
943
Maybe you should just buy a diamond at a B&M.
Do your research online, look at a lot of pictures of stones, get an idea of price.
Add 10% and offer that to the B&M.


I bought my car online, I met my hubby online, so far I''ve had pretty good luck!

Guess you just have to be careful, know what you want, and ask the right questions.
 

kevinyonker

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
86
Well, I bought my H&A round diamond online from a PS vendor. They have a 30 day 100% refund (less shipping) policy. Lifetime trade up policy...you get 100% of what you paid for your diamond if you trade up. Lifetime buyback policy less 25%.
Plus, go to their site and educate yourself in-depth on diamonds.

Does it really get any better than that?

Kevin
 

InterimmRent

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
12
Just wanted to add something to this topic since I was going through the same thing that niceguymr was going through for the past month. I decided to take the plunge and hopefully all goes well. I ended up using Dimend Scassi for my vendor, and so far Isaac has been great to work with, although its not always easy to get him on the line since hes busy. My stone will get here tomorrow and I will take it to get appraised early next week.
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On the subject of appraisers, I want to add that Vickie Adams thats listed on this board as an appraiser out of Orange County, Ca is unresponsive. I''ve called her twice and left messages to give me a call back and she has yet to return my call. Both times it was with a receptionist that has little knowledge of scheduling and pricing. This is probably her daughter, but she was rude and absolutely no help. I would not recommend using Vickie Adams at all, and would encourage her to respond to this board. Adams and Associates Appraisers is one lady, and she is not responsive so I would be wary of giving her any business.
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