If price was no object . . .

[dzop]

Who sells the best sapphires these days, price no object? Meaning not that you are willing to be ripped off, but you'll pay the premium for the very best quality. Generally, the recommended vendors on this board seem to have great pricing, but don't have the holy crap! kind of sapphires that I'm referring to...

 

[LoversKites]

I'd say auction houses or serious collectors who happen to be selling some of their collection.

 

[OreoRosies86]

You're probably not going to find them online.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

What do you mean by "price no object"? In sapphires, that would be a fine Kashmir with proven provenance, fine colour, etc, which can go for $100k per carat, if you can find the stone. Or more: http://www.sothebys.com/en/news-video/blogs/all-blogs/all-that-glitters/2014/04/great-prices-for-colored-jewels.html

The very best gems are rarely seen "out in the open", either in a shop window or online, since there is a reluctance in the trade to have a stone become "shop worn" - aka, everyone knows that stone is hanging around, waiting to be sold. You need a well established dealer with the contacts to pull the right stone on memo for you. Richard Hughes is one of the leading specialists on sapphires and it may be worthwhile to contact him.

Auction houses are a good alternative but I would recommend that you have a specialist to advise you. Small things can have a huge impact on prices and there is nothing like a well trained eye to assist you.

 

[Indylady]

I'd say auction houses or serious collectors who happen to be selling some of their collection.

+1

 

[VapidLapid]

http://gemsbynomads.com/

 

[Niel]

Yavorskyy

 

[T L]

Definitely one of the major auction houses, and a major collection from a gem/jewelryphile, like Lily Safra. Her collection that recently went up for sale. Fine Kashmirs can be seven figures, especially large ones. Burmese sapphires are at these auctions as well and go for a bit less, but are quite beautiful nonetheless.

I would not get any top quality stone without an AGL prestige color quality report with origin. I don't care who its from and I wouldn't accept any other lab report. They just don't provide enough scientific information. The top auctions houses typically use AGL, which I appreciate.

 

[pregcurious]

I would get the help of an expert who has the proper experience to choose an excellent stone, will the time to educate you on what you are buying, and has the connections to get you that stone. I also agree with TL (as usual) on the AGL report. If you're going for Kashmir, it's worth to get a Prestige Report which will state their guesstimate of origin.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,


Did you try Pala gems? They are people who know their stuff. If you buy something you'll need another dealer to interface with them. They sell to the trade only.


Annette

 

[treasurehunter]

http://www.yavorskyy.com/blue-sapphire-c-16.html

 

[T L]

http://www.yavorskyy.com/blue-sapphire-c-16.html

I really like the octagon that's displayed on the home page. I wonder if that's available.

 

[Niel]

http://www.yavorskyy.com/blue-sapphire-c-16.html

I really like the octagon that's displayed on the home page. I wonder if that's available.

I love that sight, they have such high quality stones on there. They have my absolutely dream chrysoberyl on there, but i don't have the 30k id need to buy it

 

[dzop]

The reason I wasn't thinking auction houses is that I don't want a huge stone, I just want the best possible 3ctish stone. It's easy to see where to spend, say, 500k on a stone, but what if you just want to get an absolutely perfect medium-size stone? I would guess those don't go for more than $50k, unless you're talking a Kashmir.

 

[T L]

The reason I wasn't thinking auction houses is that I don't want a huge stone, I just want the best possible 3ctish stone. It's easy to see where to spend, say, 500k on a stone, but what if you just want to get an absolutely perfect medium-size stone? I would guess those don't go for more than $50k, unless you're talking a Kashmir.

Well, a high grade three carat sapphire can go for $50K at least, and then you have to be careful because you need to look at a lot of sapphires to understand what fine color truly is. Some dealers charge a lot because a stone has a certain origin, and/or it's untreated, but it could be less than fine color.

 

[Starzin]

So assuming this isn't an academic question and you are actually looking to buy a blue sapphire of around 3ct, there are some considerations...


Firstly, If this is your first foray into buying a coloured stone, please read the "sticky" at the top of this forum which has a lot of very good information https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/

Secondly, we can help you find your heart's desire but need some information to go on.
What colour do you prefer? Go to these sites and pick a colour to show us. Ignore all other considerations such as size, price, shape. Just show us the colour.
http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html
http://www.ajsgem.com/blue-sapphire-gemstone-sapphire-2046340410.html

Thirdly, what shape do you prefer? Be aware that some shapes are easier to find than others depending on the gem type because of their crystal structure.

Fourthly, there is considerable difference between a native cut stone and a precision cut. However a poorly cut gem can often be tweaked to optimum performance for very little cost in both size and money, so don't let that put you off.
http://www.gemartservices.com/recutting.htm

Fifthly, a 3ct sapphire will "face up" (look) smaller than a diamond of equal weight because sapphires are more dense. So millimetre size is a better guide particularly if looking at rounds.

Sixthly, there are many of us on Pricescope who love a gem hunt so help us to help you, but be warned... it could take more than a week or two

 

[dzop]

Oh dear. I seem to have left the wrong impression if I got the gems 101 post. My apologies.

I am not new to colored stones. In fact, I'm a trained geologist and I've bought many colored stones in the past. I've personally mined sapphires at the El Dorado bar, rubies in NC, opals in ID, spinels in NY (they're black and opaque, so don't get too excited) and heliodor from the Roebling mine in CT. I currently have a couple of decent spinels (Burma and Mahenge), a nice pair of 4.5mm Ceylon sapphires bought before prices exploded, a gorgeous faceted Roebling heliodor, a really nice amethyst with Siberian color, etc.

So, this isn't my first rodeo.

BUT, this time I'm thinking differently. Here, I want to buy a gem primarily as an investment, with the ability for my wife to wear it around from time to time. My experience elsewhere has been that that the biggest price appreciation is in the highest quality items - that is, the delta between the best and the merely very good grows with time. But, wearing a $100k+ sapphire out in the city is impractical, and the stone is prohibitively expensive to insure.

That's why I'm trying to figure out how to buy a really superb smaller (3ct being my target) stone. I'm actually less focused on buying a stone that gains value from origin because I think as an investment, origin value creates more risk (what if another pocket is discovered in Kashmir??)

This isn't a tomorrow search, or maybe even a next month, but it's something I've been considering for a year or so and I've realized I have no clue how I can execute on it. Hence the OP.

 

[arkieb1]

Sotheby's, Christie's have some amazing gemstones, rings and diamonds for sale. Some of the smaller auction houses in the US have amazing pieces from time to time as well. It depends if you want to make a ring from scratch or purchase an already made one.

 

[minousbijoux]

I believe Athenaworth posted pics a while ago taken of some rings from a very high end in jewelry store in L.A. There was an amazing, large, unheated sapphire ring that blew me away because it was so inexpensive for what it was. It came with a reputable lab report (can't remember who now) and I was astonished that such a deal could be had in such an expensive part of the world. Anyway, it got me thinking that if I had the $, I would not rule out high end consignment and antique jewelry stores.

 

[Starzin]

Oh dear. I seem to have left the wrong impression if I got the gems 101 post. My apologies.

I am not new to colored stones. In fact, I'm a trained geologist and I've bought many colored stones in the past. I've personally mined sapphires at the El Dorado bar, rubies in NC, opals in ID, spinels in NY (they're black and opaque, so don't get too excited) and heliodor from the Roebling mine in CT. I currently have a couple of decent spinels (Burma and Mahenge), a nice pair of 4.5mm Ceylon sapphires bought before prices exploded, a gorgeous faceted Roebling heliodor, a really nice amethyst with Siberian color, etc.

So, this isn't my first rodeo.

Oops. Seems I'm the one to make the apologies

In that case you could do as others suggested and make a few enquiries about stones you like to Pala or Yavorsky etc. but Lady Disdain probably gave the best advice... find an expert you trust to do the "behind the scenes" search. She also mentioned Richard Hughes. Probably the most famous sapphire on PS belongs to slksapphire who did precisely that https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-dream-sapphire-found.172133/ Despite the fact she says there are no pics, there is one further down in that thread. I've no idea if there is a search fee involved but assuming there is, it's something you would need to discuss.

However, investing in gems brings its own problems of actually realising the (anticipated) increase in value 10 or 20 years down the road which you surely also know. Good luck in your search!

 

[cm366]

I suspect the principal problem is the same as faced by those 'investing' in diamonds - you are buying retail and will have difficulty selling much more than wholesale. For truly high end stones, the problem is less significant because there is no 'wholesale' on a 5ct natural fancy vivid pink diamond, or on the Hope diamond, but for 3ct sapphires I think you'll have to keep the piece for a long time and get lucky to recover your money. The exception, as someone is sure to point out, would be buying stones that are relatively undervalued at the moment, like the fine spinels or chrysoberyls many members here own.

Paying much less than retail on a really high end sapphire will be a real challenge - the names mentioned above are good guides, and I'd agree that Richard Hughes, Vlad Yavorskyy, or maybe Richard Wise if you can get hold of him would be good starting points. Beyond that, people who can deliver a world class sapphire in ideal wearable size at less than retail pricing are the kind of contacts that high end tradespeople spend a lifetime acquiring. I suspect you're more likely to get a tip by asking around among the miners, cutters, and maybe fellow geologists you know than by enquiring on an open consumer forum.

 

[iLander]

Cartier. Go to the New York store.

They are stunning, beyond anything I've ever seen on line. Also, majority are unheated, they are careful to disclose any treatments.

When I win the lottery, I'm going there and buying the nicest ruby that they have.

 

[InToTheMystic]

Every time someone posts photos of the sapphires from Joe Escobar, I do a quick little gaspy breath intake. They all seem to be the most deliciously velvety shade of blue that has stuck in my mind (and sapphires aren't really my thing). I don't know if they could provide loose stones, but you may be able to get some information from there. A gentleman named Ryan seems to be referenced a lot.

This haloed 3-stone belonging to Kama-s is particularly exquisite: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/three-stone-sapphire-ring-by-joe-escobar.201631/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/three-stone-sapphire-ring-by-joe-escobar.201631/[/URL]

 

[chrono]

If you were looking to buy, then sell for a profit, then you've missed the boat as blue sapphire pricing has more than doubled in the last 10 years. Whether it will continue to rise and how much it will rise is unknown. How much the buyer is willing to pay for your sapphire is also unknown. The secondary market is generally poor unless it is a named piece or the stone is of both exceptional size and colour. Unfortunately, a 3 carat unheated blue sapphire is not considered rare or uncommon, even if of fine quality, for investment purposes (not that I advise it in the first place for various reasons).

I've seen Wilds Global Minerals with lovely blue sapphires lately but it will be a long time to get a decent return from any gem.
http://wildsglobalminerals.com

 

[dzop]

Well, of course I don't know if the price is "going" to continue to rise. That's why its an investment - it could rise, or it could fall. If gains were a sure thing, the price would have already risen till gains weren't a sure thing anymore. See: Markets 101. FWIW, that the price has doubled in the last 10 years has little bearing on whether the price will continue to rise; the fundamentals of the market are far more relevant to that.

I didn't realize it wasn't possible to avoid retail pricing in the 50k range. That does make the investment more difficult, though I guess I can always skulk the Sotheby's et al listings.

 

[Starzin]

Are you set on a sapphire? If I was thinking along investment lines, one gem I would be most likely to consider is an Argyle pink diamond. With the mine producing a third of the world's diamonds and less than 1% of those being pink, plus the fact that the mine's lifespan is touted to last only another 10 years or so (probably less) they might be a good bet. While you are unlikely to get a 3ct stone, even small sub-carat gems are a ridiculous price and highly sought after - to whit the Argyle tenders.

A few sites to ponder...
http://www.leibish.com/natural-fancy-pink-diamonds-article-15

Tender info and further links
http://www.argylediamonds.com.au/argyle_pink_diamonds.html

Australian site with GIA and Argyle reports/certs online. Some of the them will not have
Argyle certs of authenticity but the GIA report notes the engraved ID
http://www.australiandiamondbrokers.com/argyle-pink-diamonds/

You can see find the link to the following chart here http://www.argylepinkdiamonds.com.au/ - basically a slide show but click on the headings for a bit more info.