Ideal Scope and HCA

[ryusrock]

I have a few questions regarding Ideal Scope and HCA

1) Could a highly rated stone by HCA look bad with an Ideal Scope?

2) Is it possible for a low HCA score but look good with an Ideal Scope?

3) I guess HCA should be your first line of defense, but would you say the Ideal Scope could be the final verdict? Since HCA uses numbers that may be off compared to the actual dimensions.

All this is using the assumption that all other attributes of the stone is to your liking.

If so, this would mean the ideal scope should be your weapon of choice.

PS. I have purchased an Ideal Scope with the light and it is incredibly easy to use. I have the 6X version but was wondering how much better is the 10X version? Do they both show the same amount of leakage, only that the 10X shows more detail? Is the 6X version sufficient?

 

[MWG]

Date: 5/1/2007 2:32:29 PM
Author:ryusrock
I have a few questions regarding Ideal Scope and HCA

1) Could a highly rated stone by HCA look bad with an Ideal Scope?

2) Is it possible for a low HCA score but look good with an Ideal Scope?

3) I guess HCA should be your first line of defense, but would you say the Ideal Scope could be the final verdict? Since HCA uses numbers that may be off compared to the actual dimensions.

All this is using the assumption that all other attributes of the stone is to your liking.

If so, this would mean the ideal scope should be your weapon of choice.

PS. I have purchased an Ideal Scope with the light and it is incredibly easy to use. I have the 6X version but was wondering how much better is the 10X version? Do they both show the same amount of leakage, only that the 10X shows more detail? Is the 6X version sufficient?

HCA is designed to eliminate poorly proportion diamonds out of buying consideration. A score of 2 and below on the HCA is considered excellent and the stone should be investigated further. A score of more than 2 eliminates most stones because of poor proportions. But, ECs are beautiful, but I think would score poorly on the HCA.

The idealscope shows the quality of cut and light leakage. Of course you want a stone with maximum light return back to you.

Your 6x version should be sufficient. Or just buy an ACA from Whiteflash and they will give you an idealscope with the diamond.

Goodl Luck
MWG

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/1/2007 3:40:13 PM
Author: MWG

The idealscope shows the quality of cut and light leakage. Of course you want a stone with maximum light return back to you.

MWG

not correct, What you want is light return balanced with contrast, All light return with no contrast makes for a less bright looking diamond and a not very pretty one, too much contrast and not enough brightness makes for a ugly diamond also.
Then from there scintillation has too be looked at, but isn't a huge issue with common crown angles in the 33.5-35 range that aren't painted or dug in an RB of reasonable pavilion angles and lgf%.

 

[MWG]

Date: 5/1/2007 4:42:26 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 5/1/2007 3:40:13 PM
Author: MWG

The idealscope shows the quality of cut and light leakage. Of course you want a stone with maximum light return back to you.

MWG

not correct, What you want is light return balanced with contrast, All light return with no contrast makes for a less bright looking diamond and a not very pretty one, too much contrast and not enough brightness makes for a ugly diamond also.
Then from there scintillation has too be looked at, but isn't a huge issue with common crown angles in the 33.5-35 range that aren't painted or dug in an RB of reasonable pavilion angles and lgf%.

Hey, I dont mind being wrong and I am not an expert and still have lots to learn and do not mean any disrespect, but here is what I was thinking when I answer the question.

The word "Maximum" defined means the greatest possible or permitted amount or value and does not mean ALL or complete light return at once.

And at no point in this original thread does the writer mention wanting to know anything about CONTRAST, BRIGHTNESS, or SCINTILLATION, just HCA and IDEALSCOPE.

Here is a quote from you in another thread you wrote with the word MAXIMIZING LIGHT RETURN:
"The problem comes in that something that for example creates more fire may interfere with maximizing light return."


Just wanting to clear my point
MWG

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/1/2007 6:31:42 PM
Author: MWG

Date: 5/1/2007 4:42:26 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 5/1/2007 3:40:13 PM
Author: MWG

The idealscope shows the quality of cut and light leakage. Of course you want a stone with maximum light return back to you.

MWG

not correct, What you want is light return balanced with contrast, All light return with no contrast makes for a less bright looking diamond and a not very pretty one, too much contrast and not enough brightness makes for a ugly diamond also.
Then from there scintillation has too be looked at, but isn't a huge issue with common crown angles in the 33.5-35 range that aren't painted or dug in an RB of reasonable pavilion angles and lgf%.

Hey, I dont mind being wrong and I am not an expert and still have lots to learn, but here is what I was thinking when I answer the question.

The word 'Maximum' defined means the greatest possible or permitted amount or value and does not mean ALL or complete light return at once.

And at no point in this original thread does the writer mention wanting to know anything about CONTRAST, BRIGHTNESS, or SCINTILLATION, just HCA and IDEALSCOPE.

Here is a quote from you in another thread you wrote with the word MAXIMIZING LIGHT RETURN:
'The problem comes in that something that for example creates more fire may interfere with maximizing light return.'


Just wanting to clear my point
MWG

The IS shows potential light return and contrast(head shadow 24 degrees).
They cant be separated out.

Let me reword it: too much red in the IS can be as bad as too little.

As too my using the term, yes contrast and fire potential can reduce maximum light return.
And yes that can be a good thing or a bad thing.
I personally feel RB's should be performance tilted too light return but not at the expense of contrast and keep a reasonable level of fire.
That is my balance point for ideal.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/1/2007 2:32:29 PM
Author:ryusrock
I have a few questions regarding Ideal Scope and HCA

1) Could a highly rated stone by HCA look bad with an Ideal Scope?
High score over 2. Yes it can look bad in the IS and a lot of times will but not always.

Score under 2:
Yes, it doesn't take all facets into account.

2) Is it possible for a low HCA score but look good with an Ideal Scope?

Under 2 can look bad or good in the IS but the odds are better that it will look good, they do work together. Lower isn't better in the hca some combos under 1 need to be checked for contrast issues.

3) I guess HCA should be your first line of defense, but would you say the Ideal Scope could be the final verdict? Since HCA uses numbers that may be off compared to the actual dimensions.

Basically yes, but other things need to be considered, hearts, tightness, lgf% (the IS shows them but reading the specific number is hard to get from it without DiamCalc.), girdle, and other things.

All this is using the assumption that all other attributes of the stone is to your liking.

If so, this would mean the ideal scope should be your weapon of choice.

For rounds sure, for fancies I will take the ASET, I find the ASET slightly easier to use on rounds.

PS. I have purchased an Ideal Scope with the light and it is incredibly easy to use. I have the 6X version but was wondering how much better is the 10X version? Do they both show the same amount of leakage, only that the 10X shows more detail? Is the 6X version sufficient?

the 6x gets the job done.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Good discussion

Only one thing to add

at this link http://diamond-cut.com.au/06_firescope.htm which was written 6 or 8 years ago you can read my answer to your question.

Storm on the next page I mention the Gilbertsonscope which I also used - a stone that was too red can still have good contrast and the Gscope - which is an even more complex scope than the ASET scope - will show that.

So the general answer is yes - I used the ideal-scope to make much of the grading system - the same basic stuff AGS have now also done.

And of course HCA (patent pending) is also the forerunner to GIA''s Facetware.

But then I also used http://www.cutstudy.com/cut/english/grading1/sphere1.htm and many other things - like looking at diamonds and asking first time customers their opinions as they are buying diamonds..

 

[ryusrock]

Date: 5/1/2007 9:28:04 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Good discussion

Only one thing to add

at this link http://diamond-cut.com.au/06_firescope.htm which was written 6 or 8 years ago you can read my answer to your question.

Storm on the next page I mention the Gilbertsonscope which I also used - a stone that was too red can still have good contrast and the Gscope - which is an even more complex scope than the ASET scope - will show that.

So the general answer is yes - I used the ideal-scope to make much of the grading system - the same basic stuff AGS have now also done.

And of course HCA (patent pending) is also the forerunner to GIA''s Facetware.

But then I also used http://www.cutstudy.com/cut/english/grading1/sphere1.htm and many other things - like looking at diamonds and asking first time customers their opinions as they are buying diamonds..

Gary, would you mind telling me what you think about my Ideal Scope image in this thread:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/scrutenize-my-stone.61374/

Thank You