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Ideal OEC Cuts - what combination would you prefer?

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
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571
Hello everybody,

I'm getting closer to my dream diamond. I have a diamond, which will be recut into an Old European Cut/ Transitional Cut with (hopefully) great light return.

There are three different options to recut my existing diamond. Unfortunatley the cutter I'm working with isn't super chatty and I also don't expect him to explain every little number to me. But after almost two years on pricescope I really want to make an informed choice. I also know that an OEC can't be judged by it's numbers. But for this project I have to decide on the numbers so please bear with me!

ABC
DEPTH PERCENT63%63%63,7%
TABLE PERCENT50%50.6%49.5%
CROWN ANGLE37.135.535.2
CROWN HEIGHT18.8%17.6%17.9%
PAVILION ANGLE40.840.541.2
PAVILION HEIGHT41.7%40.9%42.5%
LOWER GIRDLE FACET?59.6%?
STAR LENGTH?58.7%?


My questions are:

1. Could the OEC experts or OEC lovers tell me which combination they would choose and why?

2. Do the numbers of Diamond B even make sense?

3. What numbers would you suggest for the Lower Girdle Facet and Star Length for Diamond A and Diamond C?

4. Do you care about a Culet or not?


Thank you very much for anybody willing to chime in!

I hope it's not rude to tag some people that I have read in other threads giving great advice in other OEC threads. @Karl_K @dreamer_dachsie @yssie @ForteKitty
 
Last edited:

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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The numbers for b are not possible.
I like A the lowers should end exactly at the edge of the table for best light return and patterns. Stars around 50% Large culet.
That will give you a traditional looking oec with great light performance. A nice mix of old time performance and modern performance.
oecdesign.jpg
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 6, 2019
Messages
571
Thank you so much @Karl_K for sharing your knowledge.
Diamond Bs dimensions were suggested by the cutter. This makes me a bit nervous can I trust him to just cut by the dimensions of Diamond A? The cutter comes recommended by a few PSers.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thank you so much @Karl_K for sharing your knowledge.
Diamond Bs dimensions were suggested by the cutter. This makes me a bit nervous can I trust him to just cut by the dimensions of Diamond A? The cutter comes recommended by a few PSers.
I just think things got jumbled a bit with b.
ie communication issue.
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 6, 2019
Messages
571
I just think things got jumbled a bit with b.
ie communication issue.
He actually sent me video with those exact measurements in his computer programm (not diamcalc unfortunately). He cuts far more MRB day by day so maybe he just really isn’t as experienced with the different angles for OECs.

One last question (if I’m allowed (-: ) What Lower Girdle Length would you suggest?
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
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Oct 19, 2013
Messages
2,800
I have nothing to contribute knowledge wise
- but i am curious about recuts.
this is to be a complete recut?
From a modern cut or older?
And if are you willing to share - what’s the weight/diameter of your original stone and what is the expected outcome?
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
571
I have nothing to contribute knowledge wise
- but i am curious about recuts.
this is to be a complete recut?
From a modern cut or older?
And if are you willing to share - what’s the weight/diameter of your original stone and what is the expected outcome?
It's a MRB to OEC. And I'll share the details (weight, color clarity etc.) when the job is done, and I'll tag you (-:
 

Cerulean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
856
It's a MRB to OEC. And I'll share the details (weight, color clarity etc.) when the job is done, and I'll tag you (-:
Raising my hand to be tagged too! I have an MRB in my possession that I would love to recut into an OEC with excellent light return....

Have nothing to offer aside from excitement about watching this happen for you!
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
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Mar 11, 2013
Messages
819
The numbers for b are not possible.
I like A the lowers should end exactly at the edge of the table for best light return and patterns. Stars around 50% Large culet.
That will give you a traditional looking oec with great light performance. A nice mix of old time performance and modern performance.
oecdesign.jpg
I may be missing something but what’s the LGF% for Option A?

Maybe Karl you can confirm but it looks like Option A has the highest crown with the most weight in the crown vs. the pavilion. I’m Assuming this option gives the most visual volume in the crown (which I personally like the idea of).

Karl, what are the benefits of a large culet? Is there an angle combo that creates koizibe? I personally love the visual aspect of large cutlets, I’m curious why others pick them.

Lessics has the cutter talked to you about the girdle? EG Will they do a faceted polished girdle or a bruted frosted girdle and what is their reason for that recommendation? Just curious.
 
Last edited:

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
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Oct 7, 2004
Messages
4,728
Most of the diamonds going into my bangle are Early American/transitional cuts, and have similar table/depth (50-51T/63-64D), but they're graded GIA Circular Brilliants so reports don't include other info. A culet is definitely important though!
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
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I may be missing something but what’s the LGF% for Option A?

Maybe Karl you can confirm but it looks like Option A has the highest crown with the most weight in the crown vs. the pavilion. I’m Assuming this option gives the most visual volume in the crown (which I personally like the idea of).

Karl, what are the benefits of a large culet? Is there an angle combo that creates koizibe? I personally love the visual aspect of large cutlets, I’m curious why others pick them.

Lessics has the cutter talked to you about the girdle? EG Will they do a faceted polished girdle or a bruted frosted girdle and what is their reason for that recommendation? Just curious.
Karl said the lower girdle facets should end exactly at the end of the table.
Looking at a lot of OECs it’s mostly just the kozibe.

The cutter did ask about the girdle, and I decided on a faceted one. Not sure there is a big visual difference?
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
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571
The first (I have the feeling I will be recutting again) round of the recut is done. It looks like the diamond is now aufferijg from a nailhead? I want to wear it in a ring and not a pendant. Should I have it recut a bit more?
09A3F371-7176-4E40-B0E9-C2B901D85080.png 97386057-F68B-41B0-9A35-8EB5BE1F10E9.png 9D46459A-6D47-44AC-9ED7-723CAF3B47A6.png 6196DDAC-5151-42C4-8C1B-97F29C2AFF2E.png
 

Big Fat Facets

Brilliant_Rock
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i'd like to offer my opinion to you, based on what i see. i will preface, that my personal, first hand experience, is with agsl 000 ideal new old cuts.

first image, huge improvement from the round brilliant to what it is now

second image, beautiful facet patterning

third image, is the purpose of this particular image is to feature obstruction and contrast??

fourth image, no comment as im not a numbers person, it's not my area of strength

what would be improved on the second recut??
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
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571
i'd like to offer my opinion to you, based on what i see. i will preface, that my personal, first hand experience, is with agsl 000 ideal new old cuts.

first image, huge improvement from the round brilliant to what it is now

second image, beautiful facet patterning

third image, if the purpose of this particular image is to feature obstruction and contrast

fourth image, no comment as im not a numbers person, it's not my area of strength

what would be improved on the second recut??
Thank you for sharing your opinion! the face up image makes me feel pretty nervous, because all petals are dark. I understand this could be from obstruction (black camera etc.). But when I look at it on my hand I don’t want the petals going dark. Do you think any “ideal old cut” would show this phenomena?
 

Big Fat Facets

Brilliant_Rock
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Thank you for sharing your opinion! the face up image makes me feel pretty nervous, because all petals are dark. I understand this could be from obstruction (black camera etc.). But when I look at it on my hand I don’t want the petals going dark. Do you think any “ideal old cut” would show this phenomena?
the pair of oecs i have do not go dark like that. i selected more of a classic oec rather than a more transitional style. are you able to get the facility/cutter to get aset scope image of the diamond to you??

my slight concern would be what i see in the third image
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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please post the full set of numbers not just the "min" there are more rows. An ASET image would also help clarify things.

I have had a very very bad day so I took my pain meds will answer tomorrow some time when I can think more clearer.
Thanks for the ping @diamondseeker2006
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It looks like the diamond is now suffering from a nailhead?
Just to relieve your mind until tomorrow no its not a nailhead its a reflection of the camera you are seeing.
I want a clearer head before I go beyond that and the added info will help determine if there is a potential problem.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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please post the full set of numbers not just the "min" there are more rows. An ASET image would also help clarify things.

I have had a very very bad day so I took my pain meds will answer tomorrow some time when I can think more clearer.
Thanks for the ping @diamondseeker2006
So sorry to hear that, Karl! Praying for a better day and no pain tomorrow!
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
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571
Just to relieve your mind until tomorrow no its not a nailhead its a reflection of the camera you are seeing.
I want a clearer head before I go beyond that and the added info will help determine if there is a potential problem.
Thank you very much @Karl_K for still answering me yesterday, even though you were having a bad day. I hope you will feel better today and have a nice relaxing pain free Saturday.

I will ask the cutter if he can provide me an ASET.
Here are the full numbers. I asked the cutter to replicate the numbers in column A (from above).


439F9D6E-A0FA-419C-AC4B-E008C7765E34.png
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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This is a screenshot I have saved in my project folder and a look I definitely wasn’t going for. But it seems like my diamond is suffering from this transitional cut problem.
Any short lgf% diamond can look like that if over obstructed enough.
Its just a potential issue when it occurs in the normal viewing range.
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
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Thank you very much @Karl_K for still answering me yesterday, even though you were having a bad day. I hope you will feel better today and have a nice relaxing pain free Saturday.

I will ask the cutter if he can provide me an ASET.
Here are the full numbers. I asked the cutter to replicate the numbers in column A (from above).


439F9D6E-A0FA-419C-AC4B-E008C7765E34.png
@Karl_K what is your opinion on the Numbers? (-: Really hope you are feeling better today!
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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@Karl_K what is your opinion on the Numbers? (-: Really hope you are feeling better today!
numbers look good.
Did some modeling and while not precise because its just an approximation from a small number of angles/% it came out ok.
My suggestion is view it in person before having more work done on it.
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
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571
numbers look good.
Did some modeling and while not precise because its just an approximation from a small number of angles/% it came out ok.
My suggestion is view it in person before having more work done on it.
Thank you very much for your time @Karl_K .Unfortunately I can’t as I’m in Germany and I don’t know where in Germany/ Antwerp I would have it retouched. Maybe I'll look into an apprasier or concierge service to look at it for me. Or maybe the cutter will be able to give me an ASET.
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
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Photos can be deceptive. Can the cutter take several videos of your stone in a couple different types of light? Outside and inside? You need to see the cut in a video, on the hand, etc. I hope the cutter is able to do this.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thank you very much for your time @Karl_K .Unfortunately I can’t as I’m in Germany and I don’t know where in Germany/ Antwerp I would have it retouched. Maybe I'll look into an apprasier or concierge service to look at it for me. Or maybe the cutter will be able to give me an ASET.
Where is the cutter located?
 
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