Ideal cut revolution?

[lumpkin]

Just sort of musing about something after viewing Gary Holloway''s interviews.

How much of the general consumer market is educated on cut as opposed to, say, 5 years ago? Is it all internet sales or are more B&M customers becoming knowledgeable about angles and proportions? Is that market share growing at a good rate? If that market share grows enough, how is it going to skew the market in regards to the color and clarity in terms of value and pricing? Will there be even less difference in price between a D and G than there is now? How will it effect the value of the diamonds we have now as cuts become more and more perfect in the future?

The other thing I''m curious about is whether there will come a time when ideal cut diamonds will dominate the market and diamonds will look so similar to each other that the personality of the individual diamond is going to become lost? Will there be enough variation on the theme that all the round brilliants won''t look very much the same?

Maybe this isn''t really a valid possibility, but I''ve been wondering about it.

 

[strmrdr]

There is a large variation in the personality of ideal cut diamonds.
Put an 8* next to one of Paul''s cut by infinity or a gog classic and a lot of people will see the difference in personality.
The range in ideal cut princess cuts personality is even wider due to the different pavilion styles allowed.

 

[kcoursolle]

I would say consumers are definitely getting more education than they used to...but for the most part people are still buying lower quality stones and have no idea about cut! But maybe I''m just cynical.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/7/2006 6:56:40 PM
Author: kcoursolle
I would say consumers are definitely getting more education than they used to...but for the most part people are still buying lower quality stones and have no idea about cut! But maybe I''m just cynical.

That is true.
Despite my offer to help my neighbor select a nice diamond one day at walmart she said I want that one and he bought it. .25ct L/i2 (my grade) badly cut round with a Royal Court?!?!?!?! grading report saying i/i1
Visible yellow and a large eye visible inclusion.

 

[kcoursolle]

Isn''t that frustrating? People have asked for my help several times and seemed like they understood things and really wanted a great quality stone, but then when it really came down to it, they weren''t willing to go to the trouble and picked out something...else

.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/7/2006 12:20:43 AM
Author:lumpkin
Just sort of musing about something after viewing Gary Holloway''s interviews.

How much of the general consumer market is educated on cut as opposed to, say, 5 years ago? Is it all internet sales or are more B&M customers becoming knowledgeable about angles and proportions? Is that market share growing at a good rate? If that market share grows enough, how is it going to skew the market in regards to the color and clarity in terms of value and pricing? Will there be even less difference in price between a D and G than there is now? How will it effect the value of the diamonds we have now as cuts become more and more perfect in the future?

The other thing I''m curious about is whether there will come a time when ideal cut diamonds will dominate the market and diamonds will look so similar to each other that the personality of the individual diamond is going to become lost? Will there be enough variation on the theme that all the round brilliants won''t look very much the same?

Maybe this isn''t really a valid possibility, but I''ve been wondering about it.

what interests me is how the market is becoming educated - but really its aimed in only one direction. People with 60/60 diamonds vs 55/61 or whatever, the different looks, LGFs, bright vs fire and of course the balance of it all. How can you have "ideal" when there is MORE THAN ONE "ideal" to be had - and in this we haven''t even ventured into any shape other than round LOL

 

[Stone Hunter]

Yes we must venture into the fancies to maintain personality...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/9/2006 3:58:41 PM
Author: Stone Hunter
Yes we must venture into the fancies to maintain personality...

bahahahaI don''t know - facetfire''s got a round that I''d LOVE to wear!!! But yes, you and I aren''t far apart on our thinking here Still, I have no *objection* to any particlular quality, I just wish that more than one flavor - even in rounds! - was not just available but embraced by those who (paraphrase) tell the consumers what they should want.

i generally walk away with more information from the paint counter at home depot than I do from a typical jewelry store!

 

[FacetFire]

Date: 10/9/2006 4:21:29 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 10/9/2006 3:58:41 PM
Author: Stone Hunter
Yes we must venture into the fancies to maintain personality...

bahahahaI don''t know - facetfire''s got a round that I''d LOVE to wear!!! But yes, you and I aren''t far apart on our thinking here Still, I have no *objection* to any particlular quality, I just wish that more than one flavor - even in rounds! - was not just available but embraced by those who (paraphrase) tell the consumers what they should want.

i generally walk away with more information from the paint counter at home depot than I do from a typical jewelry store!

Aw, you are so sweet! Thanks!

I tend to support a wider range of "ideals" than a lot of people do...because I think it''s about what''s beautiful to the eye, which goes well beyond numbers. My mom has a stone with a shallow depth, maybe 58%, and a 60% table, which sounds not so hot by the numbers...but that thing is so bright and sparkly, it puts a lot of "ideal" cuts to shame. My stone has really odd numbers and performs vastly differently than a modern cut, but it still seems so beautiful to my eye and looks better than a lot of modern stones with great numbers. I think it''s up to the differences to make stones beautiful. I wouldn''t think my stone anything special if everyone had one like it. And I still love seeing fancy cuts on people''s hands because they are different too. It really all seems a matter of what each individual places importance on...so I don''t think we''ll ever all end up with the ideal round diamond, just like we won''t all end up with a certain car or certain house just because it''s the most energy efficient. There''s just too much diversity in people for that to happen, IMO. People value different things and always will. And even if ideal stones became the norm, there''s always color differences.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/9/2006 5:01:33 PM
Author: FacetFire

Aw, you are so sweet! Thanks!

I tend to support a wider range of ''ideals'' than a lot of people do...because I think it''s about what''s beautiful to the eye, which goes well beyond numbers. My mom has a stone with a shallow depth, maybe 58%, and a 60% table, which sounds not so hot by the numbers...but that thing is so bright and sparkly, it puts a lot of ''ideal'' cuts to shame. My stone has really odd numbers and performs vastly differently than a modern cut, but it still seems so beautiful to my eye and looks better than a lot of modern stones with great numbers. I think it''s up to the differences to make stones beautiful. I wouldn''t think my stone anything special if everyone had one like it. And I still love seeing fancy cuts on people''s hands because they are different too. It really all seems a matter of what each individual places importance on...so I don''t think we''ll ever all end up with the ideal round diamond, just like we won''t all end up with a certain car or certain house just because it''s the most energy efficient. There''s just too much diversity in people for that to happen, IMO. People value different things and always will. And even if ideal stones became the norm, there''s always color differences.

ITA - except on the part where your stone wouldn''t be as special if everyone else had one - I think it would because it''s extra special AND it''s yours from your fiance
now, this is going to sound goofy but I kind of think of our stones as cousins.... yours is 8.5 and mine is 7.5 x 9.5 LOL Yours is I and mine is J, yours is SI1 and mine is VS2, yours is OEC, mine is OMC, yours is old, mine is new.... sizes are pretty close too if I recall... they''re not sister stones, but they have some things kind of in common.... your ring is by far the best OEC around!

 

[Fancy605]

I don''t know very many people at all who know much about cut. In fact, most poeple I know think that cut is in reference to the shape of the diamond. They have no idea what makes a cut good or very good or fair.
The other confusing thing is, under store lights, one can still detect clarity and color, but those lights make just about any old thing look super sparkley.

I am glad that I came upon PS when I did because I really used to pay no attention to cut. And no, I can''t yet differentiate between a very good and ideal cut stone unless they are side by side, but I can notice right away now if something is poorly cut. A friend of mine was very impressed with herself for having a 1 C diamond--but the thing is so deep, that it faces up looking much, much smaller than it ought to (not to mention it is the color of old teeth from the side and always looks dirty). I mean, I thought it was lovely until I started really looking at it. And I am sure most non PS people would agree that it is a nice ring. I think the thing that really gets my goat is that she is so convinced that her fiancee got a good deal because, yes, what he paid is cheaper than what he would have paid for a 1.0 stone of much better quallity in a mall store, but he could have found something VERY nice online for his price. Oh well. She is blissfully ignorant, and so I am not going to tell her any differently.

I am just glad that I am a cut convert.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/7/2006 12:20:43 AM
Author:lumpkin
Just sort of musing about something after viewing Gary Holloway''s interviews.


The other thing I''m curious about is whether there will come a time when ideal cut diamonds will dominate the market and diamonds will look so similar to each other that the personality of the individual diamond is going to become lost? Will there be enough variation on the theme that all the round brilliants won''t look very much the same?

Maybe this isn''t really a valid possibility, but I''ve been wondering about it.

It is interesting Lumpkin.

The average cut quaity has improved a lot over the 2.5 decades i have been concentrating on it.

when i first got my Firescope in 1984 i did a small study for the Diploma of Diamond Technology that I was studying for at the time. I had to find some good examples of different looking stones thru it. I took it into my principle suppliers office and went thru his entire round diamond +.20ct stock. the best looking diamond I could find would probably not pass the testing to make it into my current inventory.

Now that has happened without there being any great rise in prices - in fact diamonds are more affordable today than they were then.

But the second part of your question:

Date: 10/7/2006 12:20:43 AM
Author:lumpkin
Will there be enough variation on the theme that all the round brilliants won''t look very much the same?

I am not happy that so few people - especially the better educated people who buy diamonds, and the vendors who sell and frequent this place, have not bothered to experiment with BIC''s and FIC''s.

So in a sense it frustrates the hell out of me - the ant track and fear of being different is so much a part of human nature that there are simply fears growing in me that George Orwell was right.

 

[:)]

Date: 10/9/2006 10:12:42 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

I am not happy that so few people - especially the better educated people who buy diamonds, and the vendors who sell and frequent this place, have not bothered to experiment with BIC''s and FIC''s.

So in a sense it frustrates the hell out of me - the ant track and fear of being different is so much a part of human nature that there are simply fears growing in me that George Orwell was right.

You know, I am really drawn to at least the idea of a FIC. I love fire. It is difficult though to take the plunge and spend so much money on a stone that I may not like when I see it in person. The FICs are so few and far between, and let''s face it, it is not like you can walk into Average Joe''s Diamonds R Us and ask to see a FIC. I bet they would look at you cross eyed if you did that - they probably wouldn''t even know what it was even if they had one! I wish I could go somewhere to be assured to at least see a FIC in person before making that plunge to buy. My gut says I would probably like it, but then I get worried that it may look dark. Until the market starts showing more of them, I doubt many people will be specifically pursuing purchasing them - and in the beginning I bet it would be people purchasing them on ''accident'' - just someone walking into a store and seeing a stone that really appealed to them and then buying it, only to find out later "hey, I liked it b/c it is a FIC!" (or a BIC)

I think Regular Guy stumbled across his FIC that way (if I recall correctly)

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 10/9/2006 11:07:57 PM
Author:

I think Regular Guy stumbled across his FIC that way (if I recall correctly)

It''s true. Though it''s not the main topic of this thread, I''ll make three related points, for those interested.

1) AGS''s new parameters is making it easier for FICs to be possible, because their proportion set is included in their cutting ranges.

2) Scott here has come up with some ideas for finding them.

3) Maybe someone else can ask Leonid why he''s removed...or moreover...if he''ll put back the ability to search on crown (and pavilion) angles in the search by cut db. Those utilities used to be there, and especially now should make it easier yet to find them when they are available.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/9/2006 10:12:42 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

I am not happy that so few people - especially the better educated people who buy diamonds, and the vendors who sell and frequent this place, have not bothered to experiment with BIC''s and FIC''s.

So in a sense it frustrates the hell out of me - the ant track and fear of being different is so much a part of human nature that there are simply fears growing in me that George Orwell was right.

I''ve seen a couple people place interest in BICs, I''ve seen a lot of people gravitate toward the TICs seeking some ideal''s ideal. And I''ve seen quite a few interested in FICs and unable to find them. Is the pendulum starting to swing from brillance to fire? But you''re right in that most of what I''ve seen people steered toward is a tight TIC. There are so many flavors to be had and so many ideals to be had... it really isn''t just "dog" vs "ideal" anymore... or at least IMO it shouldn''t be. I think with all of the infinite combinations out there we could at least play up four main diamond types... FIC pinfire FIC broadfire, BIC pinfire and BIC broadfire... I know *nothing* about crown facet lengths etc but I know I prefer small tables... and I know a bit about LGF. It would be pretty easy to set aside a few distinct flavors even in the RB other than just a generic "ideal" that is losing its meaning and is way too overused... now you have to say "superideal" but I''m not sure I''m on the superideal bandwagon...

Anyway on that last part Garry it reminded me of what this ex GIA grader told me - she said she thought it was really cool that I went for something so different. I don''t think you need to check for cameras in your TV quite yet Garry... not everyone is afraid of being different or standing out. If I was afraid I''d just be nodding along with popular opinion here rather than dissentnig and urging you to debate this

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/9/2006 11:07:57 PM
Author:

Date: 10/9/2006 10:12:42 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

I am not happy that so few people - especially the better educated people who buy diamonds, and the vendors who sell and frequent this place, have not bothered to experiment with BIC''s and FIC''s.

So in a sense it frustrates the hell out of me - the ant track and fear of being different is so much a part of human nature that there are simply fears growing in me that George Orwell was right.

You know, I am really drawn to at least the idea of a FIC. I love fire. It is difficult though to take the plunge and spend so much money on a stone that I may not like when I see it in person. The FICs are so few and far between, and let''s face it, it is not like you can walk into Average Joe''s Diamonds R Us and ask to see a FIC. I bet they would look at you cross eyed if you did that - they probably wouldn''t even know what it was even if they had one! I wish I could go somewhere to be assured to at least see a FIC in person before making that plunge to buy. My gut says I would probably like it, but then I get worried that it may look dark. Until the market starts showing more of them, I doubt many people will be specifically pursuing purchasing them - and in the beginning I bet it would be people purchasing them on ''accident'' - just someone walking into a store and seeing a stone that really appealed to them and then buying it, only to find out later ''hey, I liked it b/c it is a FIC!'' (or a BIC)

I think Regular Guy stumbled across his FIC that way (if I recall correctly)

I can''t speak on FIC RBs... but owning a stone that is high fire, high scint, and low brilliance myself I can say that my stone isn''t "dark". When a TIC or BIC stone would look like a white circle mine looks like a patchwork. It isn''t dark - it''s a pattern of light in white and dark and colors from the suroundings... It does look dark in full sun like a typical ideal cut but its brilliance is scattered... it isn''t dead or lifeless or dark.. the fire and scint in spotlight jewelry store lights is equal to that of a tiffany and the ideals that I''ve seen, but when placed in diffused it doesn''t do the white thing, it pulls colors from the room in a kaleidoscope. i love it but I don''t think the average woman would... I think the average woman doesn''t see her diamond as a toy like I do but rather as a fashion accessory ad she wants her diamond to look white - not just clear but WHITE and that''s a BIC light return thing. You see women on here all the time saying how WHITE their lower colored stones look because of the cut... well my stone does NOT look white, it looks off white and there''s no brilliant cut to it to hide it at all. And in return it is a firebomb and a kaleidoscope that shoots rainbows on the wall and at my children and provides me with lots of fun - can''t wait for it to be set!! It''s funny for those who were reading my anxiety saga on the other board, as soon as the date passed I was at *peace* LOL!

 

[Cehrabehra]

This is the lighting where an ideal RB might look very round and white I''d think... this is daytime inside diffused light... the walls are yellow my shirt I think must have been blue... I wouldn''t say the stone was dark or lifeless, but it is definitely a different flavor.

 

[Cehrabehra]

the cumberbund/bowtie/cross in the stone that looks so dark in some angles actually picks up a lot from other angles... you can see the color of my kitchen walls VERY accurately here... Maybe someone with a FIC round can chime in here and give their testimony

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/10/2006 2:04:12 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

I can''t speak on FIC RBs... but owning a stone that is high fire, high scint, and low brilliance myself I can say that my stone isn''t ''dark''. When a TIC or BIC stone would look like a white circle mine looks like a patchwork. It isn''t dark - it''s a pattern of light in white and dark and colors from the suroundings... It does look dark in full sun like a typical ideal cut but its brilliance is scattered... it isn''t dead or lifeless or dark.. the fire and scint in spotlight jewelry store lights is equal to that of a tiffany and the ideals that I''ve seen, but when placed in diffused it doesn''t do the white thing, it pulls colors from the room in a kaleidoscope. i love it but I don''t think the average woman would... I think the average woman doesn''t see her diamond as a toy like I do but rather as a fashion accessory ad she wants her diamond to look white - not just clear but WHITE and that''s a BIC light return thing. You see women on here all the time saying how WHITE their lower colored stones look because of the cut... well my stone does NOT look white, it looks off white and there''s no brilliant cut to it to hide it at all. And in return it is a firebomb and a kaleidoscope that shoots rainbows on the wall and at my children and provides me with lots of fun - can''t wait for it to be set!! It''s funny for those who were reading my anxiety saga on the other board, as soon as the date passed I was at *peace* LOL!

More power to you C - I love it when people find that special stone that speaks to them - I think you might be at risk of going deaf with all the shouting

It might be hard to read - but the stones with proportions near those marked BIC and FIC (hard to read?) can be GIA Excellent and some can be AGS 0 too. They can be very bright with good fire, or very firey with good brightness. In side by side comparisons it is evident, and it is not possible to regulalry and easily find these stones because of the "ideal" cut movement.

We are being boxed in friends - hey - that camera.%&*@$%&(#@!$%
Its OK - I killed them

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/10/2006 2:27:38 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

More power to you C - I love it when people find that special stone that speaks to them - I think you might be at risk of going deaf with all the shouting

deaf AND blind -but shall we hope not dumb? LOL (then again in context I''m sure some might wish me to be so bahaha) The stone definitely has an unusual personality - totally one of a kind, definitely not a quiet demure sort of thing, more like a Ziggy Stardust sort of character hehe

It might be hard to read - but the stones with proportions near those marked BIC and FIC (hard to read?) can be GIA Excellent and some can be AGS 0 too. They can be very bright with good fire, or very firey with good brightness. In side by side comparisons it is evident, and it is not possible to regulalry and easily find these stones because of the ''ideal'' cut movement.
I think most women want that, it''s just way too generic for me. Of course like the guy in the interview said - you tell your customers what to want... if the industry suddenly started saying "nah forget brilliance it''s all about the fire" well things might shift some and suddenly a whole new "ideal" would be born. The pendulum can swing both ways, but over the course of history the bell curve will always wish for an average between the two, nailing neither but getting a little of both.

We are being boxed in friends - hey - that camera.%&*@$%&(#@!$%
Its OK - I killed them

Okay dude, you totally lost me there LOL!!

 

[Rod]

Date: 10/7/2006 7:13:28 PM
Author: kcoursolle
Isn''t that frustrating? People have asked for my help several times and seemed like they understood things and really wanted a great quality stone, but then when it really came down to it, they weren''t willing to go to the trouble and picked out something...else

.

This happened to me recently as well. I guy I know asked me for advice. I spent a lot of time with him and pointed him to the tutorials here on PS. He promised he wouldn''t buy anything until he ran it by me. And then I see him one week later and he''s all giddy with excitement and describes what can only be a piece of crap. I''m sure my face showed how surprised and disappointed he did none of the things I suggested he do to avoid a buying mistake. Go figure.......

 

[Modified Brilliant]

I thought that I would add my 0.02 regarding the aforementioned issues.

When I entered the jewelry industry in 1978, guys were buying 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 ct.
diamond engagement rings with little regard for color or clarity. No mention of cut.
Cut became more of an issue with the educational tools available on the internet.
The average independent retail jeweler was slow in responding to the issue of "cut."
Today, the mass merchants and big volume retailers aren''t concerned with cut either.
They''re more concerned with opening up new credit accounts and offering price points.
The informed pricescope consumer is very knowledgable regarding cut issues.
Don''t think that every diamond shopper knows what you know. In reality, they don''t.
The "average" engagement ring shopper in the U.S. is still not very aware regarding "cut."
In time, greater awareness will prevail....but it will take time.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[Stone Hunter]

Date: 10/9/2006 4:21:29 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 10/9/2006 3:58:41 PM
Author: Stone Hunter
Yes we must venture into the fancies to maintain personality...

bahahahaI don''t know - facetfire''s got a round that I''d LOVE to wear!!! But yes, you and I aren''t far apart on our thinking here Still, I have no *objection* to any particlular quality, I just wish that more than one flavor - even in rounds! - was not just available but embraced by those who (paraphrase) tell the consumers what they should want.

i generally walk away with more information from the paint counter at home depot than I do from a typical jewelry store!

Facetfire''s stone is wonderful. I''m sure that I''ve posted how much I love it in it''s thread.

But I don''t consider it to be a Round Brilliant. OEC are just Fab. I saw one on vacation this summer and wanted it. But round shaped stones don''t look as good on my hand and it was yellow.

I guess I consider OEC and OMC to be very distinct non RB cuts. They have TONS of personality!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stone Hunter]

"I don''t know very many people at all who know much about cut....

A friend of mine was very impressed with herself for having a 1 C diamond--but the thing is so deep, that it faces up looking much, much smaller than it ought to (not to mention it is the color of old teeth from the side and always looks dirty). I mean, I thought it was lovely until I started really looking at it. And I am sure most non PS people would agree that it is a nice ring."


Well Fancy605 I think you are right. But PS has caused me to become very very particular about diamonds. I don''t know it that''s such a good thing. It makes the search for an upgrade tough. But I will be getting exactly what I want within the limits of diamond availability and price!!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/10/2006 2:10:12 PM
Author: Stone Hunter

Date: 10/9/2006 4:21:29 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 10/9/2006 3:58:41 PM
Author: Stone Hunter
Yes we must venture into the fancies to maintain personality...

bahahahaI don''t know - facetfire''s got a round that I''d LOVE to wear!!! But yes, you and I aren''t far apart on our thinking here Still, I have no *objection* to any particlular quality, I just wish that more than one flavor - even in rounds! - was not just available but embraced by those who (paraphrase) tell the consumers what they should want.

i generally walk away with more information from the paint counter at home depot than I do from a typical jewelry store!

Facetfire''s stone is wonderful. I''m sure that I''ve posted how much I love it in it''s thread.

But I don''t consider it to be a Round Brilliant. OEC are just Fab. I saw one on vacation this summer and wanted it. But round shaped stones don''t look as good on my hand and it was yellow.

I guess I consider OEC and OMC to be very distinct non RB cuts. They have TONS of personality!!!!!!!!!

no... it''s not a round brilliant - but it''s round!! I didn''t think I liked rounds but I like that round!!!! I''d like a rb for a pendant maybe but for my finger the only rb I''ve seen that I love is 3 hearts and I know that has something to do with how its set LOL

Though I think you could have an OEC be round and brilliant - its my understanding that aside from a little culet the main diff is that the OECs have essentially like 60%LGF vs the 75-85 you find in typical RBs. I noticed on mine my LGF are a bit longer (like 65-70 my *guess*) and in some OMC you find like 20-35% lgf!!! Which leaves you with 8 nice big facets. That''s what I like - 8 nice unfutzed with pavaillion mains. Sure the long LGF splinters it up and creates "more" fire but really it''s just broken up into smaller bits, there''s more but they''re smaller. Anyway LOL I didn''t actually say "round brilliant" just "round" hehehe I was wondering if I''d get busted on that! lol

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/10/2006 2:18:41 PM
Author: Stone Hunter
But PS has caused me to become very very particular about diamonds. I don''t know it that''s such a good thing. It makes the search for an upgrade tough. But I will be getting exactly what I want within the limits of diamond availability and price!!!

Have you narrowed it down at all? Please share your desires!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/10/2006 10:09:20 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 10/10/2006 2:27:38 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)


We are being boxed in friends - hey - that camera.%&*@$%&(#@!$%
Its OK - I killed them

Okay dude, you totally lost me there LOL!!

Cehrabehra in an earlier post you wrote>>>> Anyway on that last part Garry it reminded me of what this ex GIA grader told me - she said she thought it was really cool that I went for something so different. I don''t think you need to check for cameras in your TV quite yet Garry... not everyone is afraid of being different or standing out. >>>>>>

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/10/2006 11:48:38 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 10/10/2006 10:09:20 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 10/10/2006 2:27:38 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)


We are being boxed in friends - hey - that camera.%&*@$%&(#@!$%
Its OK - I killed them

Okay dude, you totally lost me there LOL!!

Cehrabehra in an earlier post you wrote>>>> Anyway on that last part Garry it reminded me of what this ex GIA grader told me - she said she thought it was really cool that I went for something so different. I don''t think you need to check for cameras in your TV quite yet Garry... not everyone is afraid of being different or standing out. >>>>>>

forgive me, I am blonde... naturally... LOL You have great humor, wish some of these discussions we have on ps were at a round table LOL

 

[maxspinel]

I look at the cut from a some what different perspective. I am a color gemstone person. I love emeralds, sapphires, diamonds and all of the nature has to offer as long as they display lovely color. There are only 3 Cs in colored gemstones: color, color and color. Cut and clarity are secondary, or acceptable compromise if the color is exceptional. In my personal opinion, one appealing round white diamond is not so different than the other one. I cannot understand the hype on D vs. I, IF vs. SI2, H&A vs. 1B since apparently no common folks can differentiate them anyway. Even for carat, a 10 carat diamond is a reproduction of 1 carat if they are identical in every other way except magnified 10 times. Uniformity wipes out individuality and when everything is standardiized to be the same, it is not special anymore.

All other gem stones are valued based on their rarity, beauty and intensity of color so why should the grading of white diamonds which is just a sub-category of these gems to be so different? White diamonds are not as rare as other natural gems but De Beers promote them to be the gem for eternal love. Since white diamonds are more abundant, now we want to separate them based on color that we can''t tell, clarity that is not visible and cut that appeals to a certain era.

 

[Mara]

garry, for me personally i am intrigued by the idea of FIC and BIC and i would not be averse at all to getting an OEC FIC or a BIC RB for a pendant or something. but having had a BIC-ish stone already (though admittedly not a great BIC), and now having seen TIC's that are cut to exceptional beauty, in my opinion i am thinking why would i ever 'settle' for a stone having JUST a lot of fire or JUST a lot of brilliance. sure if i ever end up having like 20 diamonds in my possession...i will experiment with BIC or FIC. but if i am going to have one big honking ring, and one pair of earrings i wear all the time then i want them to be superideal RB. because i know that those stones are the 'best of all worlds' for me. i wouldn't waste my time looking for a FIC or BIC round if i didn't need to and with a TIC i don't.

but for an OEC or similar, if i ever got a RHR or something, i'd love a FIC because to me having seen those in person...the old cuts just look better with all that fire coming out. certain cuts just look better with more or less fire or brilliance. to me the modern rounds look best with that kind of balance of TIC.

really so many of the BIC or FIC stones that are modern rounds do not seem necessarily priced any more competitively, so if it's a TIC or BIC for same price, i'm choosing TIC. but if the BIC or FIC stones were cheaper significantly? and guaranteed beautiful...well that's the rub. and i don't trust GIA to tell me that a BIC is going to be great...to me as a consumer with my own personal opinion, their grading system is not up to par. so buying a fantastic BIC or FIC virtually is a lot harder than virtually buying a TIC that will be phenomenal.