I would love a little insight (read: help me)

[lax696]

Ok, so I''ve decided to take the leap/plunge/spiral, whatever you like to call it. I''ve done a good amount of research, and at this point I''m trying to accomplish the impossible, which is find the perfect balance of all the characteristics of a stone without sacrificing too much in any one area and without bankrupting myself.

What I know:
Stone - Princess
Ring - Platinum Solitaire

What I think I know:
Stone Carat - Shooting for 1.4-1.6
Color - F to D
Clarity - VS1 - VVS1
Cut - Sounds like some people say this isn''t as important on princess but most online places seem to ask so I would say Very Good
Symmetry - Would like to be close, say below 1.07
Fluorescence - Not against it, but don''t really want a lot

What I don''t know:
1. How to balance all the above. My understanding is that a princess stone, because it isn''t as briliant or sparkley as a round stone, needs to be more clear (better color and clarity) generally speaking. Is this true? If you had to sacrifice one characteristic for another, where would you start (would you go from a D to an E to get VVS2 for example).
2. I''ve used pricesscope, but am only really familiar with Blue Nile. Is everyone''s experience with the other places on here good?
3. How to find a good ring and get it set. I''m concerned about getting a ring that lets enough light into the diamond so that it sparkles a bit more (which is the most important part for me). Most setting I''ve seen seem to grab the whole stone, which blocks some of the light and might make the stone less sparkley (true?). Any good ideas on places to get a good setting that will help with this?
4. Would love some thoughts on just how you decide on something on the internet that you can''t see. I want to get this ring and get the proposal and all out of the way, but I''m a little unsure of just how to know it''s the right stone. Then, how do I coordinate getting it set? I''m in DC, any good jewelers around here that people know about?

Thanks in advance for any help!!

 

[neatfreak]

Ok, first of all, most of the info you've been given isn't good, so scrap it.

1.Princesses will show color more than a round, so I would stick to G or higher if you're color sensitive or H or higher otherwise. It helps to go look at stones in person with your future fiance to see how color sensitive she is.

2. Princesses hide inclusions MUCH better than many other cuts. It's very safe to go down to at least VS2, and even an eyeclean SI1 or SI2 if you're comfortable with that. This will save you LOTS of money. If you go with something higher than VS2 you're paying for something that you won't see and won't negatively affect the diamond. Makes no sense right?

3. CUT is always the most important C regardless of shape. An extremely well cut princess will have a gorgeous symmetrical pattern in the middle, return great light, and look generally amazing. A poorly cut princess can look like a glob of ice.

4. Don't use bluenile because they don't give you personal service or help with stone selection. They also can't get a stone in to take pictures for you, give you ASET images, or Idealscopes.

While there are plenty of nice princesses out there, IMO, the BEST are the Whiteflash ACA princesses. They have an AGS0 grade, meaning that they are absolutely the best in terms of light performance, so they will have the most sparkle and light return. They are also a bit more expensive than "regular" princesses, but worth it in my opinion.

If you really want to buy from bluenile ONLY buy a stone graded by AGS with their "0" grade. Otherwise don't bother. WF will also have real pictures, idealscopes (so you can see light leakage), and ASETs (so you can see contrast and light performance). Not to mention that WF has superb customer service and will help you select a great stone that works for you if you call them.

Hope that helps and let us know if you have more questions.

 

[neatfreak]

Missed your setting question.

Honestly? The easiest thing would be to get both the stone and setting from WF and let them set it. They''re good, quick, and it won''t cost you extra $.

If you buy a stone online and take it somewhere local to be set, often they won''t cover the stone with their insurance if it breaks during setting. If you buy the stone from the same person who sets it, they''ll cover it. So that''s another thing to consider.

Setting wise, you don''t need to worry about getting an "open" setting to let more light in if the stone is an AGS0 and a great cut. That baby will be 100 times nicer than almost any princess you see on the street, and an "open" setting won''t really help that. Jewelers often tell people this because with stones that AREN''T cut well, these settings will help with the sparkle. So that''s why crappy jewelers often tell people that they need an open setting.

A gorgeous, classic, and chic setting from Whiteflash is their Legato sleek line. It''s a very popular choice and it''s so classic. It flows really nicely too and the head is much nicer than most rings. Not to mention that it''s a great ring at a great deal...

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/-Legato--Sleek-Line_1118.htm

 

[chrono]

Date: 5/29/2007 11:57:47 AM
Author:lax696

What I don''t know:
1. How to balance all the above. My understanding is that a princess stone, because it isn''t as briliant or sparkley as a round stone, needs to be more clear (better color and clarity) generally speaking. Is this true? If you had to sacrifice one characteristic for another, where would you start (would you go from a D to an E to get VVS2 for example).
For a PC stone, yes, it''ll need higher clarity and colour but you don''t have to go with a D VVS; stay around G and VS2 to maximize your budget.

2. I''ve used pricesscope, but am only really familiar with Blue Nile. Is everyone''s experience with the other places on here good?
I''ve purchased from Whiteflash, GOG, Pearlmans and Wink. All are great to work with.

3. How to find a good ring and get it set. I''m concerned about getting a ring that lets enough light into the diamond so that it sparkles a bit more (which is the most important part for me). Most setting I''ve seen seem to grab the whole stone, which blocks some of the light and might make the stone less sparkley (true?). Any good ideas on places to get a good setting that will help with this?
A well cut diamond does not need "help" from light entering the side of the ring. It will bounce back almost 100% of the light coming in from the top. Don''t worry about how closed the setting is, just pick what you love. I have many bezeled diamonds and they all look just as sparkley as my other prong set diamonds.

4. Would love some thoughts on just how you decide on something on the internet that you can''t see. I want to get this ring and get the proposal and all out of the way, but I''m a little unsure of just how to know it''s the right stone. Then, how do I coordinate getting it set? I''m in DC, any good jewelers around here that people know about?
For internet purchases, I rely on tools to help narrow down the selection - Idealscope and ASET. If these are not available, I''d stick with AGS0 stones but it''ll probably cost a bit more but it''ll foolproof. Vendors like WF, WinkJones and GOG have these tools. I don''t think BlueNile provides any of these services.

Thanks in advance for any help!!

 

[lax696]

Whew!

Alright, so apparenlty there''s much more to do than I initially thought (it seemed so simple

). I''ve been to see some rings already, but they''ve mostly been E-F stones, which based on what I''m hearing and seeing on this site, might be overkill in the sense that I can go a bit lower and not miss out on the whiteness of the stone. I''ve got some information on what the best cuts for princess stones are from another forum on here, so that should help. Also, now I''ve seen some magnifications of diamonds on GOG, and, I mean, some of these things are REALLY tough to see. Niiice!

One quick follow-up and then back to the books. Does anyone here have a square cut briliant? Any thoughts on it? My girlfriend really wants a square ring, and I''m positive she has no idea that there are different kinds. Is a SCB more "brilliant" than a princess. I''ve seen some princess cut pictures on GOG and they look a lot cleaner and that there are fewer "complications" in the diamond to bounce the light around.

Thanks for putting my on the right track. I''ll see you down the road!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/29/2007 2:37:33 PM
Author: lax696
Whew!


Alright, so apparenlty there''s much more to do than I initially thought (it seemed so simple

). I''ve been to see some rings already, but they''ve mostly been E-F stones, which based on what I''m hearing and seeing on this site, might be overkill in the sense that I can go a bit lower and not miss out on the whiteness of the stone. I''ve got some information on what the best cuts for princess stones are from another forum on here, so that should help. Also, now I''ve seen some magnifications of diamonds on GOG, and, I mean, some of these things are REALLY tough to see. Niiice!


One quick follow-up and then back to the books. Does anyone here have a square cut briliant? Any thoughts on it? My girlfriend really wants a square ring, and I''m positive she has no idea that there are different kinds. Is a SCB more ''brilliant'' than a princess. I''ve seen some princess cut pictures on GOG and they look a lot cleaner and that there are fewer ''complications'' in the diamond to bounce the light around.


Thanks for putting my on the right track. I''ll see you down the road!

Do you mean like a Good Old Gold square H&A? It''s a VERY VERY different look from a princess, so I would try and find out which one your girlfriend likes best. It is likely to have better light return than a princess I would think...but if you get an AGS0 princess, both should look comparably good. But there are quite a few really bad princesses out there (avoidable if you stick with AGS0) whereas square H&A by almost by definition are cut with extreme precision.

I personally like the square H&A look much better...but that''s just me. Princesses are too busy for me.

 

[chrono]

The GOG square H&A sparkles exactly like a round but has a square outline (sort of like my avatar). The sparkle produced is VERY different from a Princess cut stone. It also carries a slight premium over the other cuts as it is a branded cut. The light return on the square H&A is better than the PC but ultimately, it is your preference. PCs have more pinfire sparkles and the the SH&A have medium sized sparkles.

 

[lax696]

Well, here''s the thing about the ring. My girfriend doesn''t like "round stones." I am positive she would have no idea about the difference between a princess cut and a sqaure cut brilliant, she would only be concerned if one was not square. So, is a round cut brilliant sqaure (looking down on it) or is it squarish when it is set? I personally like how brilliants sparkle and if I could get that in a square cut that''s what I think looks great. Unfrotunately, this is a total surprise so I can''t ask my girlfriend.

Otherwise, I''ve done a lot of looking around since I last posted. It''s pretty clear that I don''t need to go witht he pure white rings period, even in a platinum setting. I''ve found some good ones in the F-G category and in the VS1-VS2 category. I''ve seen some SI1 diamonds that I liked, but when they magnifiy the imperfections are too obvious for my taste, so I think that''s wehre the diamond I get is going to fall. I''ve been focused on getting a really well cut stone since it has also become apparent that that is what will get me what I''m looking for in terms of the right sparkle and look. It also appears to iimprove the diamond overall.

The only problem now is finding the actual stone. Like I said, I like the SCB on GOG, but I also like the ACAs on whiteflash, unfortunately you never know when they''re going to have one. Any idea how often they refresh their sites. I chatted with a customer srevice rep from WF the other day and they seem pretty willing to do some searches for diamonds that match my criteria, just not sure how to go about that. Thanks.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/31/2007 11:17:44 AM
Author: lax696
Well, here's the thing about the ring. My girfriend doesn't like 'round stones.' I am positive she would have no idea about the difference between a princess cut and a sqaure cut brilliant, she would only be concerned if one was not square. So, is a round cut brilliant sqaure (looking down on it) or is it squarish when it is set? I personally like how brilliants sparkle and if I could get that in a square cut that's what I think looks great. Unfrotunately, this is a total surprise so I can't ask my girlfriend.


Otherwise, I've done a lot of looking around since I last posted. It's pretty clear that I don't need to go witht he pure white rings period, even in a platinum setting. I've found some good ones in the F-G category and in the VS1-VS2 category. I've seen some SI1 diamonds that I liked, but when they magnifiy the imperfections are too obvious for my taste, so I think that's wehre the diamond I get is going to fall. I've been focused on getting a really well cut stone since it has also become apparent that that is what will get me what I'm looking for in terms of the right sparkle and look. It also appears to iimprove the diamond overall.


The only problem now is finding the actual stone. Like I said, I like the SCB on GOG, but I also like the ACAs on whiteflash, unfortunately you never know when they're going to have one. Any idea how often they refresh their sites. I chatted with a customer srevice rep from WF the other day and they seem pretty willing to do some searches for diamonds that match my criteria, just not sure how to go about that. Thanks.

WF and GOG are fantastic, you really can't go wrong with either of these vendors.

An important thing to know the answer to is WHY she doesn't like round brillants. For me, I don't mind the round shape, and I want a perfect ideal cut, but I really really don't like the look of the arrows. They bother me for a some stupid reason.

And so that is why I personally went with a cushion instead of a square H&A because a square H&A looks a lot like a round, because the pattern is the same. Princesses have "fractioned" light that shoots off a lot of little pinfire light, which is really a distinctly different look than the flashes a round or Square H&A will do. A cushion is another square shape to consider, but cushions are often more "round" than a princess by comparison.

As for whether they will look square, it depends on the setting. If you choose some kind of classic 4 prong setting, it will look square. But a princess is a "more square" stone than a square H&A if that makes sense. So a princess IMO will always look a bit more "squarish" compared to a square H&A.

As for your color and clarity, my stone is a G VS2 and that is a sweet spot for many people. Very "mind clean" and the G's are very very white. It's a very good idea to stick in that range for maximum bang for your buck. As for the SI1's it's important to ask the vendor if it's eyeclean and to remember that you will NEVER see the inclusions that you can see in the magnified image if it's eyeclean. But it also needs to be "mindclean" so it's perfectly fine to stay with VS2 if that is where you're most comfortable.

You need to do your best to think like your GF and think about what she might like best. What KIND of square stones has she seen that she likes? Has she seen princesses? If so, and you know she likes princesses, best to stick with that IMO. That's likely the kind of square stone she has seen because it seems to be the most common.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/31/2007 11:17:44 AM
Author: lax696
Well, here''s the thing about the ring. My girfriend doesn''t like ''round stones.'' I am positive she would have no idea about the difference between a princess cut and a sqaure cut brilliant, she would only be concerned if one was not square. So, is a round cut brilliant sqaure (looking down on it) or is it squarish when it is set? I personally like how brilliants sparkle and if I could get that in a square cut that''s what I think looks great. Unfrotunately, this is a total surprise so I can''t ask my girlfriend.

If that''s the look you like, AND she would like, you want the Square Hearts and Arrows. It''s a more square looking stone to begin with. Then just get a setting/prongs that emphasize the shape.

 

[chrono]

The square H&A sparkles like a round but is squarish in shape which sounds like what you like. But is that what she likes? Remember that she will be wearing this diamond for the rest of her life, see it every minute of the day (and night) and so it is very important that she loves it. Princess cuts do sparkle quite a bit too but the sparkle pattern is very different from the SH&A. If she truly likes the Princess, get her a Princess because the SH&A doesn''t even come close to looking like a Princess cut even though both have square outlines.

 

[Regular Guy]

Locally, I hear Jared''s (Northern VA, maybe elsewhere) has a peerless line of Princess diamonds that are AGS0 certified...to give you a hands on idea.

also from DC

 

[Gypsy]

I wanted a square stone. Perferably a cut cornered square. I had only seen the Lucida and the HOF Dream, Radiants, and Princesses in real life. So I told FI to look for princesses and asschers. I had not heard of cushions, Square H&A, Jubilee, Lucre... etc. I just didn't want a round because I thought they were very common. I did not and do not like radiants, so I ruled them out.

If I'd known of the other squares available and everything about asschers and princesses, I would have actually said no to both asschers and princesses.

SO I think that maybe you can ask a friend of hers or a family member WHY she doesn't want a round. If its just that she wants something different... go hog wild and pick the nicest brightest stone you like that's still square.

Personally I'd want a cushion from Mark T. A modern one like MoreMoreMore's.

 

[jstarfireb]

Not to make your decision even more difficult, but try to take a look at a Flanders or Jubilee stone. They seem like something she might like, because they have tremendous sparkle and a cut-cornered square shape. GOG occasionally gets them in (last time I checked, there was at least one Flanders). The WF X-factor and GOG cut-cornered square brilliant are also amazing stones with great sparkle. Check out the video on GOG comparing their cut-cornered square to a regular princess and radiant. It''s really something.

I considered all of these stones before I eventually settled on an ACA princess. I chose a setting that really only worked with a princess with all 4 corners intact, so that nixed all the cut-cornered stones for me. But I still would love to have a Flanders some day!

BTW, Chrono, is that a Jubilee in your avatar?

 

[chrono]

I''m not sure if Flanders are still being cut but I know for sure the the Jubilees are no longer in production - copyrighting issues or some sort of red tape problems. The original cutters/designers are working on trying to get the OK to re-start cutting more Jubilees but nothing has been cut since that last batch 2 years ago. Occasionally, GOG''s website may list a Jubilee or Regent when someone upgrades their stone.

jstarfireb,
Yes, that is my Jubilee that I purchased from GOG and set as my RHR. I am waiting for Mr. Horowitz to resume production so that I can upgrade my Jube.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/29/2007 12:22:24 PM
Author: neatfreak
Ok, first of all, most of the info you've been given isn't good, so scrap it.

1.Princesses will show color more than a round, so I would stick to G or higher if you're color sensitive or H or higher otherwise. It helps to go look at stones in person with your future fiance to see how color sensitive she is.

2. Princesses hide inclusions MUCH better than many other cuts. It's very safe to go down to at least VS2, and even an eyeclean SI1 or SI2 if you're comfortable with that. This will save you LOTS of money. If you go with something higher than VS2 you're paying for something that you won't see and won't negatively affect the diamond. Makes no sense right?

3. CUT is always the most important C regardless of shape. An extremely well cut princess will have a gorgeous symmetrical pattern in the middle, return great light, and look generally amazing. A poorly cut princess can look like a glob of ice.

4. Don't use bluenile because they don't give you personal service or help with stone selection. They also can't get a stone in to take pictures for you, give you ASET images, or Idealscopes.

While there are plenty of nice princesses out there, IMO, the BEST are the Whiteflash ACA princesses. They have an AGS0 grade, meaning that they are absolutely the best in terms of light performance, so they will have the most sparkle and light return. They are also a bit more expensive than 'regular' princesses, but worth it in my opinion.

If you really want to buy from bluenile ONLY buy a stone graded by AGS with their '0' grade. Otherwise don't bother. WF will also have real pictures, idealscopes (so you can see light leakage), and ASETs (so you can see contrast and light performance). Not to mention that WF has superb customer service and will help you select a great stone that works for you if you call them.

Hope that helps and let us know if you have more questions.

Apparently rounds are better than Princesses for hiding inclusions due to the increased brilliance from the facets etc, if well cut of course, just as a general point of interest!

 

[lax696]

Opinions:

. Report: AGS
. Color: H
. Clarity: VVS2
. Shape: A Cut Above Princess
. Carat: 1.540
. Depth %: 73.4
. Table %: 70.6
. Crown Angle: 40.8
. Crown %: 11.4
. Pavilion Angle: 39.9
. Pavilion %: 59.5
. Girdle: Thin
. Measurements: 6.39-6.25X4.59
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

 

[chrono]

Very pretty and a good choice. Personally, I''d stick with VS2. No one is going to see anything in a VS2 princess cut, so there''s no need to pay more for something you can''t see. If anything else, if you are colour sensitive, you might want a G. Other than that, a H VS2 is a pretty sweet spot.

 

[lax696]

I hear ya. The problem is that the G I''ve found , which is about the same size and is a VS2, is not as well cut. It''s close, but not quite as well done. Also, that stone is not in house, so getting to see it actually is tougher. It sounds to me like the cut is really important. I''m going to get a pic of the stone in a platinum setting. If I like it, then I think i''ll go here, otherwise I might go with the G. I got in touch with WF and this is the only ACA they could find that met basically what I was looking for. The idealscope on the stone is ridiculous, I mean not only is there just a bit of light getting out, but it''s almost totally symmetrical all around (same spots in the same places). Hoping that the H doesn''t look too colored, but from what I''ve read adn heard, it should be alright. Fingers are crossed!!!

 

[chrono]

Lax,
You''ve done all the right things. I was about to suggest calling WF but you beat me to the punch. Sometimes WF has stones that they haven''t had a chance to post yet that might fit your criteria, but you''ve already done that. You did good.

What setting are you planning to mount it in?

 

[lax696]

The Legato sleek line. I hadn''t seen it until someone here posted it. It''s gorgeous and should set the stone off really well.

 

[chrono]

She is going to get her socks knocked off. You''ve picked a really sweet setting.