I went to jared...

[dotcombust]

First off I just want to say that this is an amazing resource! I've spent nearly 2 weeks reading through linked stones, reviews and gemologist opinions... I just wish I had registered and researched here before I purchased (like many others have stated). We decided to go with Jared because we wanted to see what I was buying. I thought that while being somewhat over priced compared to online, I would still get an excellent diamond and a solid diamond bond warranty. Fortunately I'm still within 30 days so I can change my mind about the diamond I purchased, which I'm about to. And they just went through a wave of "markdowns" of many of their loose certified diamonds. When I asked why the asst. manager said it was because of current market conditions of their competitors...

First we decided on a Leo: Brilliant round, 1.07 good/good , SI2 , I , 58%table, 60.1% depth, slightly thin to medium girdle, medium blue flourescence diamond set in the "Leo" 18k white gold and platinum shank band. It gemex'd very high on all 3 categories, nearly off the chart in Scintilation. I'll have to edit my post when I get home to add the measurments.

(returned the ring, to make a long story short skip this paragraph).
My fiancee and I compared Leos, Peerless and their Certified side by side. The Leo looked gorgeous compared to everything else (I later learned that the Leo "cut" is what makes an average stone look like a premium cert stone)... Its a pretty stone, the clarity higher than I wanted and the inclusions were not "eye" visible but hey it looked pretty and she was happy with it so I was happy. I guess I felt after reading up on this site that I could have gotten a better stone for my money. Well 2 days later the Rhodium on the band had already reacted with her chemistry and turned to a yellow gold... took it back to Jared and they said that while the Rhodium was covered under the warranty there was no way they could help the fact that every few days or weeks the Rhodium would need to be re-applied because of her skin. So we decided we wanted the stone and its shank on platinum band. Well they cannot remove the shank and its stone because it came from Leo that way (signature band with the little diamond inside of the band). So we decided to start over and they happily obliged. At this point I had already read up on this forum and had raised my standards with regards to the 4Cs (thank you GOG for great educationals on your site!)

We currently have two stones on hold:

1) An IGI cert, Brilliant round, SI1, I, VG/VG , 1.23CT .. dimensions are 6.84 x 6.99 x 4.21 with no modifications.. the IGI loose stone cert does not have the cut quality nor the Table/Depth percentages, only the above that I listed. Maybe someone can plug those numbers into something and get a rough estimate of the percentages? Its beautiful under various lighting and scopes at different magnifications. I'm just not sure about that IGI cert from what I've read here on the forums... but the stone is beautiful and just reduced twice - from $7400 to $7200 to $6500.

2) A GIA cert, Brilliant round, SI2, H, EX/EX/VG , 1.40CT ..dimension are 7.14 x 7.19 x 4.44 with no modifications.. Its a GIA excellent cut (ideal?) from what I've read here and based on the scanned cert I viewed in their system. The inclusions were near the edge of the crown and are probably not going to be visible face-up to the naked eye. I'll find out on Friday when the stone arrives. $7800 , not reduced.

Also viewed:
3) An IGI cert, Brilliant round, VS1, G, VG/VG 1.20CT.. dont have the dimensions on me but they were very close to the above IGI.. Beautiful stone! Was reduced once to $7000 and may be reduced again, not too sure.

Ok so now why I'm posting lol... I wanted to know how much of a difference I'll see in face-up size from the 1.23 to the 1.4? If its negligable, is safe to go with the IGI? Would you go with the GIA based on the higher standards of the grading process? How far off are those prices from "market" prices? It doesn't seem worth it to me to go up in size if its not noticable... for what its worth we could both see a difference in size from a 1.07 to the 1.23 . We have a week left of our 30 days to make a decision and the 1.40 should be there by friday to view. I'll try to update the post if I get more information before then.

Thank you!!!

 

[D&T]

please post specs number for all diamonds, you are missing critical data such as the pavilion and crown angles, you should be able to get this off the certs.

Also a side not, I probably would not pay extra for their "diamond bond" and just buy jewelery insurance stand alone policy either replacement value or cash value as this policy is more comprensive than the instore insurance or diamond bond such as you will get reimburse for theft or loss of your entire ring as your instore insurance will not just a thought. The instore insurance that they are marketing, you will have to adhere strict to their policy and not miss anything as you could be void of warranty and what not.

 

[dotcombust]

Thank you for the diamond bond advice D&T!

I'm sorry I thought I mentioned that the IGI certs did not have anything additional to the measurements.. they are small card type certs and have limited information. I know, its frowned upon to not have additional information but this is all that was on the cert. Should they be able to pull up a more detailed certification for me or should I be able to get angle information off the IGI website with the cert ID? Their Leo IGI, Certified GIA and Peerless AGS certificates have much more information on them but didnt see angles. I wont have the 1.40 cert until friday to look at and the IGI have limited information. The specs I've listed above are what I wrote down off the certs.

Thank you!

 

[D&T]

Date: 10/8/2009 3:13:06 PM
Author: dotcombust
Thank you for the diamond bond advice D&T!

I'm sorry I thought I mentioned that the IGI certs did not have anything additional to the measurements.. they are small card type certs and have limited information. I know, its frowned upon to not have additional information but this is all that was on the cert. Should they be able to pull up a more detailed certification for me or should I be able to get angle information off the IGI website with the cert ID? Their Leo IGI, Certified GIA and Peerless AGS certificates have much more information on them but didnt see angles. I wont have the 1.40 cert until friday to look at and the IGI have limited information. The specs I've listed above are what I wrote down off the certs.

Thank you!

sorry I'm not sure if IGI has those extra specs on the report, you could try it online and see if anything else comes up. I'm not familiar with IGI reporting though maybe someone else will have more knowledge on IGI

http://igionline.com/igiweb/onlinereport/

ETA: do post specs for your GIA stones as well when you get a chance, I'm more inclined to AGS or GIA stones and grading as they are more strict.

 

[dotcombust]

Ok will try to get more information on the IGI.. i have a bit more information I forgot to add in my additional post:

**edit** i have additional information on the GIA:
2) A GIA cert, Brilliant round, SI2, H, EX/EX/VG , 1.40CT ..dimension are 7.14 x 7.19 x 4.44 with no modifications.. Table 56% , Depth 62% , Girdle Med to slightly Thick..
GIA excellent cut ... I'll have more information from the Cert on friday when it arrives at the store. $7800 , not reduced.

I'll try to get the angles on the GIA ... I get the feeling IGI is not up to par with the AGS and GIA for reasons I'm beginning to understand... Based off the information of the GIA excellent cut which from what I understand is "ideal", is that a fair price to pay retail? The only thing that worries me is the SI2 grade of clarity at the moment... I really appreciate your help with the limited amount of information i have - thank you!

 

[D&T]

SI2 is not a concern for me IF it were eyeclean when you view the diamond.

without the crown and pavilion angles, and aset images we really can''t help you assess whether it is yay or nay other since we haven''t seen the diamond and you have, so you are the better person to judge the diamond. If you are deciding between the diamonds. Try and see if you can view the diamonds in outdoor lighting and other various lighting condition ie: under a desk where there is very little light and see if it "sparkles". if I had to choose based on the limited information, then I would go first with AGS, and I know their peerless will be a performer, then GIA and that 1.4 carat size is hard to find now a days, and will face up quite beautifully. That is one of my ideal size that I would have loved to gotten.

 

[stone-cold11]

GIA Ex cut allows for some proportion that has less than ideal performance, which is why we need to see the angles.

At least you can easily compare the stones, side by side with their peerless. Make sure to look at them outside of their store lighting, check them out in as many different lighting condition as you can find.

 

[dotcombust]

DT - ok thats good to know about the lighting! I am really hoping that its eyeclean, since the cert I looked at on their system was difficult to see the plotting, but the inclusions didnt look too close to the center of the stone. I wish I could get that Peerless 1.40 AGS performance at the price of the GIA 1.40 price

SC - I will definitely try that ...

Also, I found the IGI website where I can get more detailed information along with the GIA site... I'll call get the cert# reports from Jared today and then reference these stones online and get back to you

 

[dotcombust]

I guess IGI doesnt provide crown/pavillion angle data or do they? I dont see it on the old Leo cert nor do I see it for the above SI1 diamond on their web site ... hmmm

on another note the IGI 1.20 VS2 and 1.23 SI1 stones were VERY eye clean face up.. I know face down isnt the way inspect clarity, but dang that VS2 was clean face down too

I'll be there today at 3 with my lady to inspect the stones - and also to compare with the peerless... I have a feeling I'll end up not going with a peerless because I'll be hitting near the top of my credit limit with a 1.50 ct stone of that quality... we also have a budget that she doesnt want me to go over.

 

[dotcombust]

Ok so I left with the GIA and we are VERY pleased with it.. Of all the SI1 and SI2 stones we've looked at, this is the cleanest I've seen in the SI clarity...

Only issue I have is that the GIA is not laser inscribed or "gemscribed" on the girdle... the manager said that not all GIA stones in their vault are inscribed.. I guess I thought because Jared sold it, it would be inscribed... does this sound right? Should I be concerned that the GIA # is not gemscribed on the stone?

 

[stone-cold11]

Nothing wrong with no inscription, it is an extra service by GIA to do it and some vendor just do not want to pay extra for it, or it will come with a cheaper form of report, the GIA Dossier report that does not have a clarity plot.

It can be polish off by someone with the knowledge and tools quite easily. A better way to identify a stone is already present in the stone and that is it's inclusions and compare that with the clarity plot on the GIA report.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/12/2009 8:49:07 AM
Author: dotcombust
Ok so I left with the GIA and we are VERY pleased with it.. Of all the SI1 and SI2 stones we've looked at, this is the cleanest I've seen in the SI clarity...

Only issue I have is that the GIA is not laser inscribed or 'gemscribed' on the girdle... the manager said that not all GIA stones in their vault are inscribed.. I guess I thought because Jared sold it, it would be inscribed... does this sound right? Should I be concerned that the GIA # is not gemscribed on the stone?

Not really, diamonds that have the cheaper GIA Diamond Dossier will be inscribed as these reports don't include a clarity plot, otherwise in clarity grades that do have an inclusion you can see either with the naked eye or a loupe, is a way to indentify your diamond by its own ' birthmark.'

 

[dotcombust]

Lorelei and Stone Cold - thats good to know thank you!

Ok another long story I''ll try to make short..

A COMPLETELY different GIA cert came with the diamond we reserved. I made the mistake of writing down all of the data except the darn GIA report # so they had no real explanation of how it happened... It just dissapeared.. fishy I know.. so here we go one more time I''m sorry... 2 stones we''re comparing now:

The one we bought, which arrived completely different than what we reserved from the GIA above:
7.06x7.11x4.48 , Round br, H, 1.40, SI2 (very eye clean, face up), VG/VG/VG, FL: none, table: 58%, depth 63.2%, crown ang: 36.0, pav ang: 41.2, star: 50%, lowerhalf: 80%, girdle: med to stk 4%, culet: none.
Comments: pinpoints not shown.
HCA only a 5.4

.. the GIA we were supposed to get above had a much better HCA!

Ok so now the one I''m comparing it to and contemplating an exchange for:
7.32x7.35x4.42, Round br, H, 1.42, SI2 (need to view stone), VG/VG/VG, FL: none, table: 58%, depth 60.3%, crown ang: 32.5, pav ang: 41.4, star: 55%, lowerhalf: 80%, girdle: thin to med 2.5%, culet: none.
Comments: Additional clouds not shown .. also Cut grade affected by Brillianteering.
HCA 2.8, much better...

Ok so with all of this data, I plug it into the HCA and into the GIA grading tool on the GIA web site... all the angles tell me the 1.42 should be the better performer. Looking at the GIA tool it even shows me the 1.40 is pretty deep in comparison to the 1.42.
I''ve yet to view the clarity on the 1.42.

So if its eye clean like the 1.40, and looks better to the eye, should I go through the trouble of exchanging the diamond? How much should the HCA affect my buying decision with regards to the above two stones? Ugh and the brillianteering, I read negative things from some people here, and some positive. They are the exact same price... would be an even exchange.

Thank you again for all of your help!

 

[stone-cold11]

Definitely exchange it, but don't they have something better? It is their mistake to begin with.

I believe for that shallow crown, it is not good to have brillianteering, the thin girdle is not helping.

 

[dotcombust]

Hello SC! Thats good to know about the crown, I was wondering that myself. Overall it seems to be a shallower diamond than the previous.

The budget I'm in right now I'd have to even exchange it, not much more in that price point and size/clarity with what I'm looking for. I could go down a tad bit in size but better in Clarity... I'm concerned about the spread in a smaller stone but heck if the stone is Ideal/EX then to me it almost seems to be worth it. Since the stone we have right now is deep I might be able to find a lighter CT but closer to the same spread.
.

 

[stone-cold11]

Good luck.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/27/2009 5:14:15 PM
Author: dotcombust
Lorelei and Stone Cold - thats good to know thank you!

Ok another long story I''ll try to make short..

A COMPLETELY different GIA cert came with the diamond we reserved. I made the mistake of writing down all of the data except the darn GIA report # so they had no real explanation of how it happened... It just dissapeared.. fishy I know.. so here we go one more time I''m sorry... 2 stones we''re comparing now:

The one we bought, which arrived completely different than what we reserved from the GIA above:
7.06x7.11x4.48 , Round br, H, 1.40, SI2 (very eye clean, face up), VG/VG/VG, FL: none, table: 58%, depth 63.2%, crown ang: 36.0, pav ang: 41.2, star: 50%, lowerhalf: 80%, girdle: med to stk 4%, culet: none.
Comments: pinpoints not shown.
HCA only a 5.4

.. the GIA we were supposed to get above had a much better HCA!

Ok so now the one I''m comparing it to and contemplating an exchange for:
7.32x7.35x4.42, Round br, H, 1.42, SI2 (need to view stone), VG/VG/VG, FL: none, table: 58%, depth 60.3%, crown ang: 32.5, pav ang: 41.4, star: 55%, lowerhalf: 80%, girdle: thin to med 2.5%, culet: none.
Comments: Additional clouds not shown .. also Cut grade affected by Brillianteering.
HCA 2.8, much better...

Ok so with all of this data, I plug it into the HCA and into the GIA grading tool on the GIA web site... all the angles tell me the 1.42 should be the better performer. Looking at the GIA tool it even shows me the 1.40 is pretty deep in comparison to the 1.42.
I''ve yet to view the clarity on the 1.42.

So if its eye clean like the 1.40, and looks better to the eye, should I go through the trouble of exchanging the diamond? How much should the HCA affect my buying decision with regards to the above two stones? Ugh and the brillianteering, I read negative things from some people here, and some positive. They are the exact same price... would be an even exchange.

Thank you again for all of your help!

Not liking either of these, the brillianteering isn''t always a negative thing but that steep pavilion angle is undesirable. I would keep looking.