shape
carat
color
clarity

I must ask a stupid Q. Can a single diamond rough yield 2 different color stones?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Dancing Fire, May 18, 2019.

  1. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,961
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » May 18, 2019
    Is it possible for a 15ct rough to yield a D and a J colored stone? I know it can yield different clarity but how about different colors?
     
    AV_ likes this.
    


    


  2. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    19,671
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    by yssie » May 18, 2019
    Oh. This is an interesting question DF! (If it’s a stupid question then I’m asking it too :bigsmile:)

    I look forward to trade opinions and experiences!

    But I’ll ask an additional question:
    Is it possible for the same chunk of rough to yield two stones of similar size and different body colour?
     
  3. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » May 18, 2019
    Rough can be different colours across a piece of it - Yoram has posted Instagram photos of a cut diamond with colour banding, which must mean rough is more than one colour :)

    EDIT: here you go! https://www.instagram.com/p/BhJ7JYkHckn/
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    bmfang and LightBright like this.
  4. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    9,069
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    by LLJsmom » May 18, 2019
    I am totally guessing but I bet it can!!
     
    


    


  5. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    8,259
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    by Karl_K » May 18, 2019
    yes its possible
     
  6. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,961
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » May 18, 2019
    So on a MRB you can have a D color crown and a intense yellow color pavil? [​IMG]
     
    AV_ likes this.
  7. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,972
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    by AV_ » May 18, 2019
    Cuttable diamonds are not too common as specimens, but stryking growth patterns and color zoning are preferred for them.
     
    bmfang and Tekate like this.
  8. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    8,259
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    by Karl_K » May 18, 2019
    More likely brown it would be unlikely for a diamond rough to have partial nitrogen for yellow unless it was 2 crystals that grew together at different times when conditions changed.
     
    bmfang, SandyinAnaheim and OoohShiny like this.
  9. arkieb1
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    8,346
    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    by arkieb1 » May 18, 2019
    I'm going to say yes because I have a yellow Argyle diamond here that is tiny that is multi coloured ie it's not one yellow it's like 3 or 4 different shades of yellow across the face of the stone.
     
    Sfadman, bmfang, AV_ and 3 others like this.
  10. Victor Canera
    Shiny_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2010
    by Victor Canera » May 18, 2019
    @Dancing Fire
    From first hand experience, yes, this is definitely possible.
    This happened on a diamond we produced from rough a while back that yielded two different colors although the difference was two color grades between the two stones.
    I'll try to see if I can track down the two diamonds. It would be interesting to show this to the community.
     
    KKJohnson, yssie, MonkeysInk and 12 others like this.
    


    


  11. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » May 18, 2019
    Pics!! :))
     
  12. Paul-Antwerp
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,831
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    by Paul-Antwerp » May 19, 2019
    Sorry for coming to this thread a little late. I will try to explain it as simply as possible. There are actually two aspects at play, independently, and when one thinks about the second aspect, one could wonder whether lab-grading of color, as it exists, makes logical sense.

    Aspect 1 is color-zoning. This exists and can have various causes. But let's just agree to the simple fact: tint is not necessarily evenly distributed across a rough diamond.

    Aspect 2 is possibly more interesting, as it shows a relationship of color with size and cut-quality.

    This often is the case in a nice rough crystal, lending itself two two polished diamonds, one clearly bigger than the other. Just imagine a 1.20 Ct. and a 0.45 Ct.

    Now, suppose both, for sake of simplicity, to be cut in the same cut-quality and in round brilliant.

    We generally state that the color of diamonds is graded from the side because this allows to observe the true body-color. But is that reasoning fully correct? In diamonds of a smaller size, the light goes through less diamond material before exiting. The result: with the material having the same color, a smaller diamond cut from that material can be graded a higher color than a bigger diamond from the same material.

    Hope this helps.

    Live long,
     
    kipari, yssie, bmfang and 6 others like this.
  13. Lessics
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    112
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    by Lessics » May 19, 2019
    Didn't poshmommy get a beautiful custom cut diamond by Victor Canera, where the initial rough resulted in a I and J (poshmommys stone) colored diamond? :)
     
    bmfang and bright ice like this.
  14. Victor Canera
    Shiny_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2010
    by Victor Canera » May 19, 2019
    You have better memory than I do @Lessics :) That's exactly how things went down with that project.
    Initially I was referring to another two diamonds that had a two color grade variance.
     
    yssie, bmfang and AV_ like this.
  15. Serg
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,394
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    kipari, Sfadman, SimoneDi and 6 others like this.
    


    


  16. utsav
    Rough_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    May 20, 2018
    by utsav » May 20, 2019
    I have a question. While it’s completely true that you can actually have two different colours from the same rough diamond, but wouldn’t one stone show a 5% shade of another and vice versa irrespective of size?
     
  17. kb1gra
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    621
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    by kb1gra » May 20, 2019
    Wow. That blue radiant is quite a stone.
     
    Ss52 likes this.
  18. Serg
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,394
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    yssie, Ss52, AV_ and 2 others like this.
  19. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » May 21, 2019
    That is cool!
     
  20. Serg
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,394
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    bludiva, OoohShiny, yssie and 3 others like this.
  21. Serg
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,394
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    by Serg » May 21, 2019
    https://cutwise.com/rough/23096?sp=2

    11 polished diamonds from E to L from one rough.
    You may see here how color grade depends from size and cut of polished diamonds( the rough had color zoning also)
    Screenshot 2019-05-21 20.55.15.png

    Screenshot 2019-05-21 20.54.41.png
     
    CareBear, OoohShiny, yssie and 4 others like this.
  22. LinSF
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    350
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2018
    by LinSF » May 21, 2019
    @Serg Thank you so much! This has to be one of the neatest posts on PS!
     
    OoohShiny, Dancing Fire and Ss52 like this.
  23. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,972
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    by AV_ » May 21, 2019
    Thank you very much indeed for the treat, @Serg !

    ___

    NTS

    This tells of how wide the FVY range is & what it means being small & vivid!
     
    OoohShiny likes this.
  24. Serg
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,394
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    by Serg » May 21, 2019
    Great! :)
     
    AV_ likes this.
  25. Todd Gray
    Brilliant_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    1,294
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    by Todd Gray » May 21, 2019
    Based on conversations that I've had with various diamond cutters over the years, the answer is yes because of the zoning within the crystal. But perhaps it is easier for most people to think of the zoning within crystal in terms of something more familiar, like the layers found within a piece of wood, or the rings of a tree.

    If you were to shave down or sand the surface of the wood, the color of the grain would change with every pass of the sanding block.
     
  26. Ss52
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    157
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    by Ss52 » May 21, 2019
     
  27. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,961
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » May 21, 2019
    Very interesting Serg. Thanks for posting the pics. [​IMG]
     
  28. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    19,671
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    by yssie » May 21, 2019
    Thank you so much @Victor Canera @Paul-Antwerp @Serg @Todd Gray for sharing your experiences with us in this thread!! Those pictures are marvellous. Serg’s 10ct vs 1ct yellow is exactly the point Paul made re. size - and fascinating outcomes on the eleven multi-shape set :cool2:
     
  29. quaddio
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    505
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    by quaddio » May 21, 2019
    Thank you for sharing
     
  30. Serg
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,394
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    by Serg » May 22, 2019
    May be the rough had not color zoning,
    both 10 ct E color diamonds have treated color
    see GIA grading report
    Screenshot 2019-05-22 08.45.47.png
    Screenshot 2019-05-22 08.45.57.png
     

Share This Page