I just don''t understand Pearl Prices and Grading!

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Dear PSers,

Anyone have any idea what the difference is between these:

http://www.thepearloutlet.com/servlet/ProductView?commodityID=36639&command=cp&supplierID=490 (I would choose 18" Rose Overtone AAA and 18") about $690

and these

http://www.americanpearl.com/7mmx75japakc.html ($1688 and AAA 18").

I am pretty confused with these rating systems as they are not consistent from one vendor to another.

Regards,

CCL

 

[simplysplendid]

Hello, I have heard feedback from other forums that AP uses fictitious pearl grading systems such as AAAA. How about googling to check out what the standards are?

 

[simplysplendid]

Hi, I just went to AP website to take a look and saw this:

"The above grading system was popularized by fine jewelry stores across the country. Please be cautious in shopping for pearls. One sellers AAA quality may be another''s AA quality. Only a handful of stores with an impeccable repuation for selling pearls truly sell pearls that match the quality of the A, A+, AA and AAA grading system. In addition, the photographs featured below are crisp and sharp enough so you can actually see the differences in qualities and understand for yourself.This is your opportunity to became a pearl grading expert. You can now take of the blinders that other websites have you wearing because of their poor quality photographs. AMERICAN PEARL''s staff frequently visits these stores to insure that our quality matches their''s. Not only that, it is these retail stores that have been our customers for the past 50 years. Now you can eliminate that retail markup and enjoy the price savings of buying wholesale. Sometimes our customers, having made a purchase, compare our quality with their local retail fine jewelry store. You can read about these experiences by clicking the TESTIMONIALS button on the top navigation bar. AAA is the highest quality pearl strand with the most luster. Luster is the mirror-like quality of a pearl. It is the amount of light that reflects off a pearl''s surface. Luster or a pearl''s magical glow is the reason why people throughout history have become intriqued with pearls. Higher luster pearls are most valuable. At AMERICAN PEARL, we believe that any strand of pearls bought should rank high in the following categories to qualify as investment grade. Besides luster, they are shape and surface cleanliness. That is why all of our pearls, whether you purchase A, A+, AA or AAA will be relatively clean and round. All pearls have some natural surface blemishes. In judging the quality of a pearl, the question is not whether a pearl has surface blemishes, it is a question of how much blemishing there is. That is why all of the pearls that AMERICAN PEARL sells are the cleanest pearls available in the marketplace. Selling the cleanest pearls in the marketplace has become our trademark. AAA pearls are the cleanest pearls available with the highest luster and therefore is most likely deemed investment grade. Purchasing investment grade pearls at AMERICAN PEARL''S wholesale prices means that your pearls will appreciate in value over time. This is why we reccomend that you purchase the finest quality pearl in your price range, rather than the largest size pearl that meets your budget."

Sorry, it sounds like a cock and bull story to me, contradictory too. And their photos look like they have been touched up. Also, I don''t understand what "investment grade" is. If one wants to invest, go buy stocks, properties or bonds. Jewelry will never be investment items. Definitely not pearls since over time the nacre will peel and the pearls will lose some of its luster. I find the statements above to be quite misleading.

 

[pearlie]

Before anyone accuses a reputable company of questionable business practices and making fictitious claims, please keep in mind that there is no universally accepted standard for grading pearls.

There is NO universally accepted standard for grading pearls. None. There are folks in the industry trying to come up with a grading system that will be accepted by all pearl producers from around the world, but currently there is no standard for pearl grading that is universally followed - like there is for grading diamonds.

Which means, what one seller calls AAA, to another it may only be A grade. Akoya''s are graded differently from Freshies, which are graded differently from Tahitians. And then there are those of us who do not assign a letter grade to pearls and prefer to sell them on their own individual qualities and unique characteristics.

So while purchasing pearls, don''t get too hung up on a letter grade.

I read, and re-read, the statement quoted from American Pearl, I read no contradictory statements there.

Which brings me back to the original question posted by CCL, what''s the difference between these pearls? Honestly, without having both strands in front of me it''s not possible to tell. Each of these companies has talented photographers on staff. Maybe one strand is much better matched in color, shape and size than another. Maybe the nacre is thicker on one strand than the other. Maybe one strand has numerous pearls with surface blemishes, and those pearls are positioned towards to back of the strand, while on the other strand all the pearls are clean. And the all important lustrous glow might be sharper and more intense on one strand than the other.

Chances are, if both strands were in front of you, there would be a visible difference.

As a buyer, consider which, if any, of the qualities mentioned above are important to you.

To see differences, try visiting a jewelery store that specializes in pearls, ask to see the highest quality pearls in the store, and then compare them to the next highest, etc. A well trained staff can clearly explain to you the difference in value.

best of luck.

julie.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/26/2009 7:56:34 PM
Author: pearlie
Before anyone accuses a reputable company of questionable business practices and making fictitious claims, please keep in mind that there is no universally accepted standard for grading pearls.

There is NO universally accepted standard for grading pearls. None. There are folks in the industry trying to come up with a grading system that will be accepted by all pearl producers from around the world, but currently there is no standard for pearl grading that is universally followed - like there is for grading diamonds.

Which means, what one seller calls AAA, to another it may only be A grade. Akoya's are graded differently from Freshies, which are graded differently from Tahitians. And then there are those of us who do not assign a letter grade to pearls and prefer to sell them on their own individual qualities and unique characteristics.

So while purchasing pearls, don't get too hung up on a letter grade.

I read, and re-read, the statement quoted from American Pearl, I read no contradictory statements there.

Which brings me back to the original question posted by CCL, what's the difference between these pearls? Honestly, without having both strands in front of me it's not possible to tell. Each of these companies has talented photographers on staff. Maybe one strand is much better matched in color, shape and size than another. Maybe the nacre is thicker on one strand than the other. Maybe one strand has numerous pearls with surface blemishes, and those pearls are positioned towards to back of the strand, while on the other strand all the pearls are clean. And the all important lustrous glow might be sharper and more intense on one strand than the other.

Chances are, if both strands were in front of you, there would be a visible difference.

As a buyer, consider which, if any, of the qualities mentioned above are important to you.

To see differences, try visiting a jewelery store that specializes in pearls, ask to see the highest quality pearls in the store, and then compare them to the next highest, etc. A well trained staff can clearly explain to you the difference in value.

best of luck.

julie.

Well I did go to Birks which is very reputable in Canada just about the best quality but with just about the worst prices though.

I couldn't tell the difference between between Hanadama pearls and Akoya AA+ pearls they had in the 7 - 7.5mm size. I was stairing at them closeup side by side for a couple of minutes and really didn't see a visible difference.
The salesperson said their Akoya's were of such high quality that the difference were probably very suttle to the untrained eye.
I did see a difference between Akoyas and the much cheaper freshwater pearls. The Akoyas just had a lot more lustre and a better quality of color, were more round and even, matched better and had less blemishes.

Eddie on the phone at AP also commented that Hanadama's are certified in Japan and are not necessarily better than AP Akoya's(AAA) as they have a realtively wide acceptable range.

I did see a difference between Akoyas and the much cheaper freshwater pearls. The Akoyas just had a lot more lustre and a different quality of color, were more round and even and matched better.

What I really wonder is unless I have the two strands of AAA akoya pearls side by side will I ever notice a difference? and also which would be better the AA from AP or the AAA from PO?
Also I don't beleive that AP is anything but reputable but I do wonder if all the education makes their higher priced AAA better? It seems like for all that money I should choose their collection quality strands for just slightly more wow do the pictures look different and supposedly a full 1.0mm layer of nacre which is twice as much as most pearls.

Is there a lot of hype here for a very suttle difference or are the ones at The Pear Outlet likely inferior with inferior lustre and more blemishes or an inferior match?
I could pull them both in and do a side by side but would like to get a feel for the prices first and really don't want to incur shipping costs unless I have to.

 

[simplysplendid]

Pearlie and CCL, perhaps I should have added this in:

"Now that you have selected a pearl millimeter size that you are interested in, you can actually view the range of cultured pearl necklace qualities available in this size. As you can see, there are five qualities that are mentioned below. They are Collection, AAA, AA, A+ and A. To see Collection, click on the image of the strand below. Please note that American Pearl sells only perfectly clean, flawless pearls. Pearls found at other sources that are blemished are worth half us much. You can count on American Pearl for the cleanest most valuable pearls in the marketplace."

This is where I see the contradiction (as a consumer, I am not in the trade so I have nothing against them and nothing to benefit by badmouthing them):

1)They only selll perfectly clean, flawless pearls.
2)Pearls found at other sources that are blemished are worth less.
3)All their pearls (from the earlier quote), regardless of grades are relatively clean and round.
4)All pearls have some natural surface blemishes, it''s just a question of how much.

4 contradicts 1. 1 contradicts 3. 2 contradicts 4 etc. etc.

I am always doubtful with a seller that make high claims about their product being the best, cleanest and I think their claim about their AAA pearls being investment grade and will appreciate over time may not be ethical. I will have reservations purchasing from this vendor.

 

[simplysplendid]

CCL,

You mentioned that Eddie said that the Hanadama certified pearls may not be better than AP's AAA grade. As far as I am aware, a seller can only claim that their akoyas are the top, absolute best is when they are certified hanadama. Perhaps AP's AAA grade is hanadama certificate worthy, but unless it carries the certificate, AP should not claim that it is better or the same as a hanadama strand. Hanadama basically to the absolute best in akoya and I understand that it is the similar grade as the Mikimoto AAA strand. If I am not mistaken, a hanadama certified strand has to have at least 0.4mm nacre iin order to be certified hanadama. I wonder how is AP going to prove to you that their pearls has a 1.0mm nacre. If AP is what you are comfortable with, then I think the hanadama may be the best purchase since it is certified and is cheaper than their collection pearls.

Sorry CCL and Pearlie, I have doubts about this vendor from the claims on the website and the claims on the phone. Some may not have had any negative experience yet, but the claims that this vendor is making makes me wary and I am unlikely to purchase from this seller. This is just my opinion and all consumers are free to choose and take risks. I am writing this to give a point of view for consideration, that's all.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/26/2009 10:15:45 PM
Author: simplysplendid
CCL,

You mentioned that Eddie said that the Hanadama certified pearls may not be better than AP''s AAA grade. As far as I am aware, a seller can only claim that their akoyas are the top, absolute best is when they are certified hanadama. Perhaps AP''s AAA grade is hanadama certificate worthy, but unless it carries the certificate, AP should not claim that it is better or the same as a hanadama strand. Hanadama basically to the absolute best in akoya and I understand that it is the similar grade as the Mikimoto AAA strand. If I am not mistaken, a hanadama certified strand has to have at least 0.4mm nacre iin order to be certified hanadama. I wonder how is AP going to prove to you that their pearls has a 1.0mm nacre. If AP is what you are comfortable with, then I think the hanadama may be the best purchase since it is certified and is cheaper than their collection pearls.

Sorry CCL and Pearlie, I have doubts about this vendor from the claims on the website and the claims on the phone. Some may not have had any negative experience yet, but the claims that this vendor is making makes me wary and I am unlikely to purchase from this seller. This is just my opinion and all consumers are free to choose and take risks. I am writing this to give a point of view for consideration, that''s all.

What vendor would you suggest instead?

 

[simplysplendid]

CCL, I have purchased several times from PP and TPO (each), both were excellent. I had an issue with TPO once (they sent me a wrong strand) and they fixed it professionally and also waived the shipping fees. I am currently having a stringing issue from one of the strands from PP and they are also resolving the problem to my satisfaction (I can''t send it back for restringing and PP offered to pay for my restringing in where i live) . I guess the true test of how good a vendor is is not only how good the product is but also what they do to fix issues when they do happen. DiaDiva has also tried futurefashionista.com and the experience, it seems was fabulous too.

By the way, do you know there is a discount code that you can apply to get 10% off purchases at TPO? Personally, I am considering an 8mm hanadama strand vs an 8mm AAA strand from TPO with the code. I am not allowed to post the code here but you should be able to find it on the site quite easily.

 

[onvacation]

Date: 10/26/2009 10:08:06 PM
Author: simplysplendid
Pearlie and CCL, perhaps I should have added this in:


''Now that you have selected a pearl millimeter size that you are interested in, you can actually view the range of cultured pearl necklace qualities available in this size. As you can see, there are five qualities that are mentioned below. They are Collection, AAA, AA, A+ and A. To see Collection, click on the image of the strand below. Please note that American Pearl sells only perfectly clean, flawless pearls. Pearls found at other sources that are blemished are worth half us much. You can count on American Pearl for the cleanest most valuable pearls in the marketplace.''



This is where I see the contradiction (as a consumer, I am not in the trade so I have nothing against them and nothing to benefit by badmouthing them):


1)They only selll perfectly clean, flawless pearls.

2)Pearls found at other sources that are blemished are worth less.

3)All their pearls (from the earlier quote), regardless of grades are relatively clean and round.

4)All pearls have some natural surface blemishes, it''s just a question of how much.


4 contradicts 1. 1 contradicts 3. 2 contradicts 4 etc. etc.


I am always doubtful with a seller that make high claims about their product being the best, cleanest and I think their claim about their AAA pearls being investment grade and will appreciate over time may not be ethical. I will have reservations purchasing from this vendor.

I agree how "investment pearls" statement is quite a load of bull. That said, I believe what they were trying to say is that their pearls of one grade will be less blemished than those of the same grade from another store. Which for me can be translated as "their pearls will probably lack in luster or tone when compared to pearls of the same grade from elsewhere, but it will be less bumpy on the surface." Kind of how you can have two diamonds of the same price, but one will be L SI1 with a light feather that can be covered with a prong whereas the other is a D SI1 with a whopping black natural smack in the center. You gotta give somewhere, and I believe AP is saying that they put their priority on getting pearls with less visible blemishes, like jewelers like to get eye-clean diamonds?

 

[brightlight]

I would recommend Pearl Paradise over The Pearl Outlet. TPO's products have been very hit or miss. I, personally, have received products that were not the quality advertised. A few others have also had problems. Check out the daily deals thread for a few examples. That being said, I have also received several really nice products from them. They just aren't consistent.

I've also read some unflattering comments about AP on other forums, but very few of them had to do with the actual products and few of the posters had actually purchased from them. One of the complaints, which I do agree with, is that AP's prices are too high. In my opinion, you would not notice a difference if the two necklaces weren't side by side. Also, I find it really hard to believe that the nacre on their collection quality Japanese akoyas is 1mm. Vietnamese akoyas I would believe but not Japanese. To be fair, I did also read a thread on another forum where a customer ordered TPO's hanadama strand and compared them to her AP AAA strand and did in fact feel that her AP AAA strand was better particularly regarding surface blemishing.

With all that being said, I would recommend just ordering from Pearl Paradise instead. Their quality has been the most consistent and most accurately represented from my experience. You may want to wait until Dec. if you can. They ALWAYS have a great holiday sale. Also, check out their freshadamas. Much better value!

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 10/26/2009 11:53:35 PM
Author: onvacation

Date: 10/26/2009 10:08:06 PM

Author: simplysplendid

Pearlie and CCL, perhaps I should have added this in:



''Now that you have selected a pearl millimeter size that you are interested in, you can actually view the range of cultured pearl necklace qualities available in this size. As you can see, there are five qualities that are mentioned below. They are Collection, AAA, AA, A+ and A. To see Collection, click on the image of the strand below. Please note that American Pearl sells only perfectly clean, flawless pearls. Pearls found at other sources that are blemished are worth half us much. You can count on American Pearl for the cleanest most valuable pearls in the marketplace.''





This is where I see the contradiction (as a consumer, I am not in the trade so I have nothing against them and nothing to benefit by badmouthing them):



1)They only selll perfectly clean, flawless pearls.


2)Pearls found at other sources that are blemished are worth less.


3)All their pearls (from the earlier quote), regardless of grades are relatively clean and round.


4)All pearls have some natural surface blemishes, it''s just a question of how much.



4 contradicts 1. 1 contradicts 3. 2 contradicts 4 etc. etc.



I am always doubtful with a seller that make high claims about their product being the best, cleanest and I think their claim about their AAA pearls being investment grade and will appreciate over time may not be ethical. I will have reservations purchasing from this vendor.

I agree how ''investment pearls'' statement is quite a load of bull. That said, I believe what they were trying to say is that their pearls of one grade will be less blemished than those of the same grade from another store. Which for me can be translated as ''their pearls will probably lack in luster or tone when compared to pearls of the same grade from elsewhere, but it will be less bumpy on the surface.'' Kind of how you can have two diamonds of the same price, but one will be L SI1 with a light feather that can be covered with a prong whereas the other is a D SI1 with a whopping black natural smack in the center. You gotta give somewhere, and I believe AP is saying that they put their priority on getting pearls with less visible blemishes, like jewelers like to get eye-clean diamonds?

I feel like they are bringing up "investment" pearls to try to justify their prices. That''s what the key word "investment" basically means-- "Pay this large amount of money, but it''s ok, It''s worth it in the long run"

Ah no.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/27/2009 12:09:45 AM
Author: brightlight
I would recommend Pearl Paradise over The Pearl Outlet. TPO''s products have been very hit or miss. I, personally, have received products that were not the quality advertised. A few others have also had problems. Check out the daily deals thread for a few examples. That being said, I have also received several really nice products from them. They just aren''t consistent.

I''ve also read some unflattering comments about AP on other forums, but very few of them had to do with the actual products and few of the posters had actually purchased from them. One of the complaints, which I do agree with, is that AP''s prices are too high. In my opinion, you would not notice a difference if the two necklaces weren''t side by side. Also, I find it really hard to believe that the nacre on their collection quality Japanese akoyas is 1mm. Vietnamese akoyas I would believe but not Japanese. To be fair, I did also read a thread on another forum where a customer ordered TPO''s hanadama strand and compared them to her AP AAA strand and did in fact feel that her AP AAA strand was better particularly regarding surface blemishing.

With all that being said, I would recommend just ordering from Pearl Paradise instead. Their quality has been the most consistent and most accurately represented from my experience. You may want to wait until Dec. if you can. They ALWAYS have a great holiday sale. Also, check out their freshadamas. Much better value!

Thanks for the comparison and advice.
Aren''t Freshadamas still off round and have a less intense glow than Akoyas? The advertising on PP seems to sell them as the highest quality freshwater pearls anyone compare these to akoyas?

 

[simplysplendid]

Date: 10/27/2009 10:30:21 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 10/27/2009 12:09:45 AM
Author: brightlight
I would recommend Pearl Paradise over The Pearl Outlet. TPO''s products have been very hit or miss. I, personally, have received products that were not the quality advertised. A few others have also had problems. Check out the daily deals thread for a few examples. That being said, I have also received several really nice products from them. They just aren''t consistent.

I''ve also read some unflattering comments about AP on other forums, but very few of them had to do with the actual products and few of the posters had actually purchased from them. One of the complaints, which I do agree with, is that AP''s prices are too high. In my opinion, you would not notice a difference if the two necklaces weren''t side by side. Also, I find it really hard to believe that the nacre on their collection quality Japanese akoyas is 1mm. Vietnamese akoyas I would believe but not Japanese. To be fair, I did also read a thread on another forum where a customer ordered TPO''s hanadama strand and compared them to her AP AAA strand and did in fact feel that her AP AAA strand was better particularly regarding surface blemishing.

With all that being said, I would recommend just ordering from Pearl Paradise instead. Their quality has been the most consistent and most accurately represented from my experience. You may want to wait until Dec. if you can. They ALWAYS have a great holiday sale. Also, check out their freshadamas. Much better value!

Thanks for the comparison and advice.
Aren''t Freshadamas still off round and have a less intense glow than Akoyas? The advertising on PP seems to sell them as the highest quality freshwater pearls anyone compare these to akoyas?

CCL, freshwater and akoya and south seas each have its own kind of luster. Freshwater has a softer shine as compared to akoya, which is a more crisp, more reflective shine. South seas have a soft glow, I hope it helps. If you were to put freshwater and akoyas side by side to someone who has been looking at pearls a lot, they will still be able to tell the difference I think.

That said, Pearl Paradise is launching metallic luster freshwater pearls in November. You may want to take a look at them.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/27/2009 10:39:26 AM
Author: simplysplendid

Date: 10/27/2009 10:30:21 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 10/27/2009 12:09:45 AM
Author: brightlight
I would recommend Pearl Paradise over The Pearl Outlet. TPO''s products have been very hit or miss. I, personally, have received products that were not the quality advertised. A few others have also had problems. Check out the daily deals thread for a few examples. That being said, I have also received several really nice products from them. They just aren''t consistent.

I''ve also read some unflattering comments about AP on other forums, but very few of them had to do with the actual products and few of the posters had actually purchased from them. One of the complaints, which I do agree with, is that AP''s prices are too high. In my opinion, you would not notice a difference if the two necklaces weren''t side by side. Also, I find it really hard to believe that the nacre on their collection quality Japanese akoyas is 1mm. Vietnamese akoyas I would believe but not Japanese. To be fair, I did also read a thread on another forum where a customer ordered TPO''s hanadama strand and compared them to her AP AAA strand and did in fact feel that her AP AAA strand was better particularly regarding surface blemishing.

With all that being said, I would recommend just ordering from Pearl Paradise instead. Their quality has been the most consistent and most accurately represented from my experience. You may want to wait until Dec. if you can. They ALWAYS have a great holiday sale. Also, check out their freshadamas. Much better value!

Thanks for the comparison and advice.
Aren''t Freshadamas still off round and have a less intense glow than Akoyas? The advertising on PP seems to sell them as the highest quality freshwater pearls anyone compare these to akoyas?

CCL, freshwater and akoya and south seas each have its own kind of luster. Freshwater has a softer shine as compared to akoya, which is a more crisp, more reflective shine. South seas have a soft glow, I hope it helps. If you were to put freshwater and akoyas side by side to someone who has been looking at pearls a lot, they will still be able to tell the difference I think.

That said, Pearl Paradise is launching metallic luster freshwater pearls in November. You may want to take a look at them.

Right well from our in person viewing we liked the more metallic shine of akoyas.
So the real question is how big a difference between PP AAA Akoyas and the Hanadama strands at PP and is it worth twice the money to get Hanadamas?

I recently read that below about 8mm even the pearls from Japan have 80% imports from China mixed in at the factory in japan, so it would seem that the premium some sites charge like AP for AAA akoyas may not be justified.
Even the Hanadama strands in this range could still be 80% from China anyway as they are capable of the same quality of pearls these days. But Hanadama''s are certified by a lab and have strict tolerances which may or may not be better.

 

[pearlie]

Akoyas are produced in China as well as Japan (and other locations), which makes it very difficult to ascertain provenance in Akoya pearls.

This in no way means that a pearl from one locale is being sold as something it is not, a freshie disguised as an Akoya for example. This just means that there are large production companies located in Japan that are cleaning, sorting, and drilling pearls from many different locations, before selling them on the open market.

Freshies have a different look and feel than Akoyas do, even the most magnificent ones. The composition of the nacre is different, and the results are visible. Two different mollusks, different types of water, different nutrients, different growth rates, different cultivation techniques, etc.

So when you read about production houses mixing pearls from China and Japan, don''t take that to mean someone''s trying to get one over on you.

julie.

 

[brightlight]

Date: 10/27/2009 7:14:22 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 10/27/2009 10:39:26 AM
Author: simplysplendid

Date: 10/27/2009 10:30:21 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 10/27/2009 12:09:45 AM
Author: brightlight
I would recommend Pearl Paradise over The Pearl Outlet. TPO''s products have been very hit or miss. I, personally, have received products that were not the quality advertised. A few others have also had problems. Check out the daily deals thread for a few examples. That being said, I have also received several really nice products from them. They just aren''t consistent.

I''ve also read some unflattering comments about AP on other forums, but very few of them had to do with the actual products and few of the posters had actually purchased from them. One of the complaints, which I do agree with, is that AP''s prices are too high. In my opinion, you would not notice a difference if the two necklaces weren''t side by side. Also, I find it really hard to believe that the nacre on their collection quality Japanese akoyas is 1mm. Vietnamese akoyas I would believe but not Japanese. To be fair, I did also read a thread on another forum where a customer ordered TPO''s hanadama strand and compared them to her AP AAA strand and did in fact feel that her AP AAA strand was better particularly regarding surface blemishing.

With all that being said, I would recommend just ordering from Pearl Paradise instead. Their quality has been the most consistent and most accurately represented from my experience. You may want to wait until Dec. if you can. They ALWAYS have a great holiday sale. Also, check out their freshadamas. Much better value!

Thanks for the comparison and advice.
Aren''t Freshadamas still off round and have a less intense glow than Akoyas? The advertising on PP seems to sell them as the highest quality freshwater pearls anyone compare these to akoyas?

CCL, freshwater and akoya and south seas each have its own kind of luster. Freshwater has a softer shine as compared to akoya, which is a more crisp, more reflective shine. South seas have a soft glow, I hope it helps. If you were to put freshwater and akoyas side by side to someone who has been looking at pearls a lot, they will still be able to tell the difference I think.

That said, Pearl Paradise is launching metallic luster freshwater pearls in November. You may want to take a look at them.

Right well from our in person viewing we liked the more metallic shine of akoyas.
So the real question is how big a difference between PP AAA Akoyas and the Hanadama strands at PP and is it worth twice the money to get Hanadamas?

I recently read that below about 8mm even the pearls from Japan have 80% imports from China mixed in at the factory in japan, so it would seem that the premium some sites charge like AP for AAA akoyas may not be justified.
Even the Hanadama strands in this range could still be 80% from China anyway as they are capable of the same quality of pearls these days. But Hanadama''s are certified by a lab and have strict tolerances which may or may not be better.

Hmmm ... that''s true. I guess it really depends on how much you feel comforable spending. Ooh, I have an idea. Order a pair of hanadama and AAA earrings to compare the quality. Then, return the earrings you don''t want and order the necklace you want. That way, you get to see both qualities in person but you don''t have a couple thusand dollars authorized on your cc while you figure it out.

 

[brightlight]

I want to add that if you couldn''t see a difference between the AA+ and hanadama, you probably won''t see a difference between AAA and hanadama. Also, the freshadama are of a higher quality than you''ll find in stores. I''ve seen some truly exceptional freshadamas. There are a few off-round ones in the strand though. Not trying to push them on you. Just want to give you all the info. I, too, prefer akoyas in spite of the durability issues but freshadamas are really nice too.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/27/2009 8:06:03 PM
Author: brightlight
I want to add that if you couldn't see a difference between the AA+ and hanadama, you probably won't see a difference between AAA and hanadama. Also, the freshadama are of a higher quality than you'll find in stores. I've seen some truly exceptional freshadamas. There are a few off-round ones in the strand though. Not trying to push them on you. Just want to give you all the info. I, too, prefer akoyas in spite of the durability issues but freshadamas are really nice too.

Well I am basically annoyed now and their is no way to make any comparison at all.

I asked PP to send me a picture of three strands side by side so at least I can get some sort of basis for comparison although I know the pictures may not help enough. Freshadamas, Akoya AAA and Hanadamas they will do that on thursday and I will post them here. I can't help but feel that the lighting conditions and photography are representing differences or lack thereof and only in person comparison will do but hopefully I'll be able to tell by the photograph with all three in the same lighting.

Even the descriptive terms used are different:

On PP

For AAA: http://www.pearlparadise.com/Akoya-pearl-grading.htm

At least 95% of pearl’s surface is clean
Shape is perfect round
Luster is strong to very strong
Pearl exhibits sharp reflection
Nacre is visibly thick
Excellent matching

On Mikkimotto:

AAA Exceptional Mirror Like Reflection - Blemish Free Surface* (Tiny marks are part of a pearl's natural texture)
AA Superb, Clear Reflection - Very Slightly Blemished

http://www.mikimotoamerica.com/about_jewelry/pearls/grading_system.html


On AP

They claim to only select for minimial blemishes and the gradings only refer to the luster. (seems dubious)
They also seem to claim, a nacre thickness for each category. In fairness to them they did claim that if I ordered their Collection series they provide one pearl that is cut open but still the claims and rhetoric on the site are not so straightforward.

http://www.americanpearl.com/qualitycheck.html


1) No vendor has any consistency in their grading compared to another vendor.
2) A very nice rep from PP we went on the Mikkimotto website together and she felt that their AAA akoyas would be like Mikkimotto AA grade. She said the Hanadama strands would be comparable to Mikkimotto AAA, but she hasn't seen a comparison in a while.

3) I have seen some vendor photos like on PP where the Hanadama strands look like an amazing mirror http://www.pearlparadise.com/AltView.aspx?id=2253&LargeWidth=709. On AP its that mirror that they show for their Collection Quality line which is supposed to be even better than Hanadama is here but they don't show Hanadamas looking like that http://www.americanpearl.com/775hanadama.html

4) I suspect that some vendors Akoya AAA may be as good or closer than I could tell without a loop to Hanadamas but I won't know unless I view in person to what tolerance I can tell the differences.

I don't care about the loading up the credit card it looks like sending them all in necklace form to the a US appraisor just to hold for us so we can go see them in person seems to be the best the only way we will get a good comparison.
Anyone seen comparisons want to chime in here? This is so much harder than comparing diamonds no standards here or consistency. No subtractive system like in diamonds. Anyone know the standards for the Japanese lab that grades them to be called Hanadama?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/26/2009 11:13:09 PM
Author: simplysplendid
CCL, I have purchased several times from PP and TPO (each), both were excellent. I had an issue with TPO once (they sent me a wrong strand) and they fixed it professionally and also waived the shipping fees. I am currently having a stringing issue from one of the strands from PP and they are also resolving the problem to my satisfaction (I can''t send it back for restringing and PP offered to pay for my restringing in where i live) . I guess the true test of how good a vendor is is not only how good the product is but also what they do to fix issues when they do happen. DiaDiva has also tried futurefashionista.com and the experience, it seems was fabulous too.

By the way, do you know there is a discount code that you can apply to get 10% off purchases at TPO? Personally, I am considering an 8mm hanadama strand vs an 8mm AAA strand from TPO with the code. I am not allowed to post the code here but you should be able to find it on the site quite easily.

Thanks for the info on TPO and PP, I couldn''t find any code for PP that was a percentage but I found a couple for the PP site $75 off $1000 and $40 off $500.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/27/2009 7:40:15 PM
Author: pearlie
Akoyas are produced in China as well as Japan (and other locations), which makes it very difficult to ascertain provenance in Akoya pearls.

This in no way means that a pearl from one locale is being sold as something it is not, a freshie disguised as an Akoya for example. This just means that there are large production companies located in Japan that are cleaning, sorting, and drilling pearls from many different locations, before selling them on the open market.

Freshies have a different look and feel than Akoyas do, even the most magnificent ones. The composition of the nacre is different, and the results are visible. Two different mollusks, different types of water, different nutrients, different growth rates, different cultivation techniques, etc.

So when you read about production houses mixing pearls from China and Japan, don''t take that to mean someone''s trying to get one over on you.

julie.

Well I don''t beleive either of the 4 vendors I mentioned are trying to pass off a freishie as an akoya but some vendors charge about 50% less for the AAA quality than others and I am highly suspicious the ones that do are really passing off what the more strict vendors would call AA as AAA.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/27/2009 12:09:45 AM
Author: brightlight
I would recommend Pearl Paradise over The Pearl Outlet. TPO''s products have been very hit or miss. I, personally, have received products that were not the quality advertised. A few others have also had problems. Check out the daily deals thread for a few examples. That being said, I have also received several really nice products from them. They just aren''t consistent.

I''ve also read some unflattering comments about AP on other forums, but very few of them had to do with the actual products and few of the posters had actually purchased from them. One of the complaints, which I do agree with, is that AP''s prices are too high. In my opinion, you would not notice a difference if the two necklaces weren''t side by side. Also, I find it really hard to believe that the nacre on their collection quality Japanese akoyas is 1mm. Vietnamese akoyas I would believe but not Japanese. To be fair, I did also read a thread on another forum where a customer ordered TPO''s hanadama strand and compared them to her AP AAA strand and did in fact feel that her AP AAA strand was better particularly regarding surface blemishing.

With all that being said, I would recommend just ordering from Pearl Paradise instead. Their quality has been the most consistent and most accurately represented from my experience. You may want to wait until Dec. if you can. They ALWAYS have a great holiday sale. Also, check out their freshadamas. Much better value!

Thanks that is great info.

 

[brightlight]

I noticed that this is becoming REALLY stressful for you and that this is a really *special* necklace and not just about the best value or not getting ripped off. So, I looked at some of your other posts and realized that this is for your fiance to wear on your wedding day. Now, the importance of this particular necklace makes sense to me.

First, that''s really sweet of you.

Second, all three necklaces are beautiful and your fiance will love any of them.

Third, to destress yourself a little, forget about the other vendors for now and focus on the three PP necklaces. You really can''t go wrong with PP.

Fourth, b/c this is such a special necklace, you may want to consider durability. Because this is her wedding necklace, I''m assuming she''ll want to keep it forever. If she also wants to wear it frequently, durability may become an issue. If you''re expecting frequent wear, I would recommend the freshadamas since they are all nacre.

Sorry if this confuses you more, but know that you really can''t make a wrong decision here.

P.S. I agree that PP AAA akoyas are closer to A+/AA Mikimotos. Mikimoto''s AAA system isn''t quite the same as the AAA system that most vendors use.

 

[simplysplendid]

CCL, I understand from other pearl forums that the Mikimoto AAA grade or top grade pearls are the hanadama quality pearls. So it is likely that PP''s AAA is Mikimoto''s AA.

Since it is a special necklace, purchasing a hanadama strand may be a way to guarantee that you are getting top of the line. That said, since freshwater pearls are all nacre, they take the daily wear a little better. If the lady intends to wear this everyday, perhaps the freshwater pearls may be better. Of course, the trade off is that it will not have the mirror like luster of the top quality akoyas or hanadamas.

 

[Gailey]

CCL,

I don't have much to add to this debate, other than to say I have bought Freshadama earrings from PP and also a 100" strand from TPO. Both excellent companies, which is hardly surprising as the owners are brothers. I have never been in the market for top quality Akoyas so I can't comment on what they are like. I will also be ordering a freshadama strand from Jeremy at PP in the near future (as soon as I scratch and satisfy the Kasumi/Cortez itch that currently consumes me). I have spoken at length to Jeremy about the kind of custom strand I want and he has gone out of his way to be helpful and match up the pearls to my earrings.

What I do hear from reading other pearl information sites is that in years to come it is likely that the chinese freshwater pearl will follow the Japanese Akoya in regard to bead nucleation. I don't know if this is speculation or not. However, if this is the case then when your future bride's wedding pearls are being handed down to forthcoming generations of your family, it is a possibility that solid nacre pearls will be a rareity and no longer in production. Your clearly a clever and detail oriented kind of guy so I am sure you are reading the same information sites that I have found.

Lastly, I also want to add that I continue to be absolutely floored the the attention to detail you are lavishing on the jewelry projects for your fiancé. You deserved praised heaped upon you by the bucket load. She is a lucky young lady. I am sure you consider yourself to be a lucky guy, that goes without saying!! Blessings to you both for a very happy future.

When are you getting married?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/28/2009 11:22:32 PM
Author: Gailey
CCL,

I don't have much to add to this debate, other than to say I have bought Freshadama earrings from PP and also a 100' strand from TPO. Both excellent companies, which is hardly surprising as the owners are brothers. I have never been in the market for top quality Akoyas so I can't comment on what they are like. I will also be ordering a freshadama strand from Jeremy at PP in the near future (as soon as I scratch and satisfy the Kasumi/Cortez itch that currently consumes me). I have spoken at length to Jeremy about the kind of custom strand I want and he has gone out of his way to be helpful and match up the pearls to my earrings.

>> Everyone speaks so highly of Freshadamas I gotta see a pair for myself. The durability difference alone may convince me to just go with them anyway, I hope I can get them with a slight rose overtone which is what my Fiance likes best for her skin colour.

>>> The KASUMI pearl from JAPAN, the IRIDESCENT pearl , The SEA of CORTEZ Pearl from MEXICO, The RAINBOW pearl (Have you seen these in real life?) like this bracelet

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380156639141&ih=025&category=164316&ssPageName=mem_guide:5&rd=1 I haven't but you sound like a real collector and afficienado.

What I do hear from reading other pearl information sites is that in years to come it is likely that the chinese freshwater pearl will follow the Japanese Akoya in regard to bead nucleation. I don't know if this is speculation or not. However, if this is the case then when your future bride's wedding pearls are being handed down to forthcoming generations of your family, it is a possibility that solid nacre pearls will be a rareity and no longer in production. Your clearly a clever and detail oriented kind of guy so I am sure you are reading the same information sites that I have found.

>>> I hope not. It is still more expensive to nucleate from a bead so hopefully that will continue to drive the production of freshwater, that and pollution is ruining nucleation farms as well. Its funny you mention rarity and durability my mother suggested these instead

http://www.tiffany.ca/Shopping/Item.aspx?fromGrid=1&sku=22235761&mcat=148204&cid=287465&search_params=s+5-p+22-c+287465-r+501323338-x+-n+6-ri+-ni+0-t+ not happening! but well they would be more durable!

Lastly, I also want to add that I continue to be absolutely floored the the attention to detail you are lavishing on the jewelry projects for your fiancé. You deserved praised heaped upon you by the bucket load. She is a lucky young lady. I am sure you consider yourself to be a lucky guy, that goes without saying!! Blessings to you both for a very happy future.

>>> Thanks for the praise. I am a truly lucky man my Fiance is wonderful and we are compliments of each other. I have to be the detail oriented person (I have planned most of the wedding sigh

), but she is much better than me with patience, meeting people, making friends and relationships, showing compassion and this suits us both just fine.

.

The aqua earrings are being created by Ocean and she has just begun this week I am excited they will definitely be posted when done. Her ring I am not allowed to post (she wants it to be hers alone) but maybe one day she will let me post it, after all it should be shared with the community that inspired me.

When are you getting married?

>>>December 28.

 

[brightlight]

Another piece of info that might help - the rose overtone on freshadamas are natural. Akoyas are treated to obtain the rose.

 

[Gailey]

I think Akoyas are treated - period. Aren''t they? That said, I don''t know how much treatment Freshies get. I did watch the Pearl Paradise videos on You Tube which were quite enlightening.

 

[Gailey]

CCL

Good luck you you and your Fiance for 28th December.

It occured to me when you talked about the aqua earrings you are creating with Ocean that you might want to consider a Blue Eyris pearl.

There appears to be one retailer in Canada: Anstett who are in Ontario. Is that close to you?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/30/2009 5:26:45 PM
Author: brightlight
Another piece of info that might help - the rose overtone on freshadamas are natural. Akoyas are treated to obtain the rose.

Thats interesting I thought they were all treated for that overtone.