I found "The One" but I need your opinion

[moeaye]

What do you think of this stone? Any suggestion and opinions are welcomed...

Weight - 1.59 ct
Colout-H
Clarity-VVS1
Price- $13,5000
Width -7.55mm
Length-7.57 mm
Total depth - 4.62 mm - 61.2%
Pavillion Depth - 3.26mm-43.2%
Pavillion angle - 40.8
Crown height - 1.14 mm- 15.1%
Crow Angle- 34.4
Table size - 4.22mm - 56.1%
Griddle thickness - 0.22 mm - 2.9%
cutlet - 0.02 mm- 0.4%

thank you and of course, thanx Mara!

 

[moeaye]

sorry, forgot to mention.. it is H&A stone

 

[strmrdr]

I would go up in size and down in clarity.
The premium for vvs1 isnt worth it in my opinion its overkill.
The h color is fine but for the same money you could go up if you wanted too.

 

[moeaye]

Is there any different between using % and using crown angle? HCA scores different for this stone. If I use % , it scores 1.6 w/ ex vg vg vg and if i use crown and pavillion angle, it scores 1 w/ ex ex ex vg.

 

[fisiogrl]

Hmm,

Don't know about the different results on the HCA, maybe someone else can help. Both ways seems to indicate a pretty good stone though.

I agree with the others and think that I would drop the clarity rating and put the money elsewhere!

 

[strmrdr]

angles are much more accuarate from what the experts have said.

 

[Mara]

Very nice stone from the #'s! Do you have any images like IdealScope or images of the stone? That will help back up the #s. Whose stone is it?




I too would go either up in color or down in clarity. You are paying alot for that VVS1...by dropping it to VS1 you will save maybe $1k or more. H is a good color, an H&A H color will face up very white, great for a budget. But that VVS...if you can find another similar type stone with great #'s for VS or even an eye clean SI..I would do it.




Here is just one random example:


http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-4418301


1.56c H VS2 ACA H&A 1.3 EX HCA $11700 (Pscope price)




It's going to be eye clean, it's the same size essentially as the one you found, it's H color and is a great H&A cut. But it's almost $2k less.




Other than that, the numbers look good, the stone looks good. ANGLES on the HCA are much more accurate to use, %'s are *rounded* so you don't get the full picture.




Good luck and good eye...if you are satisfied with what you found, this should be a lovely stone (though try to get some pictures to ensure that the light return is great), but if you want to save a bit more $$, drop that VVS clarity.

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Hi Moeaye,




Forgive me if I made a mistake, but is this the stone you are considering from GoodOldGold. It is a great performer and has good contrast. Great B-scope & I-See2 scores as well. The lightscope/Idealscope Pic looks fantastic.




Personally You will be able to step it up a bit if you drop the clarity a little but within this category this stone is a top performer.

Good Luck...

 

[diamondsman]

The stone is real nice but I think the price is a bit steep,You can get similar stones with g.i.a certs.for less money,stay with the parameters of d=59-62% t=53-57%
flour.=n-f, girdle thn-med f, and you will have the same look without paying top$$$ for the stone.

 

[Rhino]

Diamonds that get over a 9.5 (and this gets 9.8, the highest score the technology can assign) on the Isee2 and triple VH's on the BrillianceScope represent the rarest of the rare within the H&A diamonds and will be one of the most beautiful diamonds she'll see in this lifetime. Very few diamonds in the world are rewarded with these results via both technologies which reflect how the diamond will appear in both direct nad diffuse lighting. If a person is seeking one of the finest cut H&A's possible you've hit paydirt. It does not get better.

Rhino

 

[aljdewey]

Josh.....how the HECK do you do that........get all the images into ONE post like that. I'm dying to know.

 

[Mara]

Save them down to your hard drive.




Open them one at a time & copy each one into something like a 'new' Adobe Photoshop file and create a new collaged image.

 

[phoenixgirl]

The stone is an amazing performer, and in my opinion the price is good. The question is . . . do you want to pay for clarity you can't see?

Only you can decide. But if this is what you're looking for, it's a great candidate!

 

[Kamuelamom]

Unless you have your heart set on the high clarity, I agree that paying the premium for the VVS clarity is unnecessary. You can get a higher clarity or even a bigger stone for the money you will save by dropping to a VS or even an eye clean SI. It is possible. You can even put the money towards your setting. Hmmmm, you have some options if you are not stuck on the VVS rating.

Good luck. Should you choose to stay with this stone, you've definitely chosen a winner.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Diamondsman you are setting people off course again?

This is certainly an excetional stone and exceptional stones demand a premium that can never be defined by table and depth %'s

If anyone wants to know more about angles vs %'s on HCA there are plenty of links on the page that give explanations

But why H VVS1 - you could have D or E SI1 and never ever get bad feelings

 

[diamondsman]

here you go again about angeles%, g.i.a will specify on their certs if the stones have crown angeles% under their comments , and that is good enough to tell.
I still stand by what I said before a nice g.i.a stone with the right dimentions with no crown angeles will look equally good withoiut payiong top dollar for it.
I am willing to show you 2 stones that one is g.i.a ex ideal make, and the other is ags ideal make , I bet you will not know the difference.

just my 2 cents.

 

[Mara]

What exactly is a GIA ideal make? I didn't realize that GIA graded cut.

 

[diamondsman]

it has the same measurments as the ideal make a.g.s.

 

[Mara]

It's been talked about time and time again on this forum that AGS Ideal Make (AGS0) does not mean the stone is cut well. All it means is that you MAY have a decent performing stone and that you have weeded this stone out of probably 100 other non-performers. But you still need those crown and pavilion angles to really tell, which AGS Ideal 0 does not take into account though the cert does have the information. This 'GIA Ideal Make' with it's EX EX means just as little as the AGS0 would to me. EX EX/ID ID without other numbers don't ensure a well performing stone.




As also shown by MDX last week, not only the numbers are necessary to determine how well a stone will perform. IdealScope or other scope images will show how that stone returns light--there are even stones with great numbers that will perform horribly in terms of light return. Refer to said thread here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comment-on-this-interesting-diamond.11719/




So, I as a customer would not be interested in a 'GIA Ideal Make' or an 'AGS Ideal Make' if that is all that came with it. I would want more. This stone that this customer is looking at HAS more. They've covered all the bases....and I think they have made an excellent selection in terms of cut.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 1/12/2004 1:22:08 PM diamondsman wrote:





it has the same measurments as the ideal make a.g.s.
----------------

Well exactly how would you know that it has the same measurements as the age ideal make if you're missing half the measurements on the GIA report?

What if you have the following two stones:

GIA AGS

Depth 61.5 61.5

Table 56 56

Crown angle ? 33.9

Pavilion angle ? 41

How can you possibly know that the diamonds "measure the same". I looked at a GIA stone with these proportions - when I asked for a Sarin, the crown angle was 36 and the depth was 41. Sorry, but that's NOT the same thing....36 makes it an AGS1.

If AGS didn't feel these angles were worth measuring, I doubt they'd be on their reports.

 

[diamondsman]

You didnot read my post i guess,G.i.a certs. will write under comments that the stone has
crown angeles greater than 35% ,(hence 36 is greater)Which will make that stone ags1 ,
and it will not be an ideal cut.
somtimes they will write under comments crown angeles are less than 30% ,also not making the ideal cut.
You have to be withing the criterias that I specified earlier with no comments as to the crown angeles.

hope this explains it.

if g.i.a thought that these were neede I am sure that they would have included them on their certs. there are many more g.i.a certs being sold on a daily basis than ags.

 

[Mara]

Yes, GIA notes under 30 degrees and over 35.




But we all know that there can be PLENTY of dog stones that do not perform well that are 31 or 32 degrees which the GIA certs do not note. Even some that may be 34.9 degrees if the PAV angle does not correspond well.




Again, a case for more information than just GIA cert with EX EX being necessary for an educated decision.

 

[diamondsman]

I have been in the business for 30 years. And I disagree with mara on her comment as she has very little experience in seeing/dealing/trading in diamonds on a daily basis, You will not have a dog if you stay withing the parameters I indicated before, depth., table, cr.angeles, girdle etc....G.I.A puts the crown angels under their comments.

Meanwhile they are the leading laboratory in the world.

 

[Mara]

Obviously you did not read the thread that I was talking about. Please do so:




https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comment-on-this-interesting-diamond.11719/




So is that stone not a dog performer?




It has all the desired table, depth, crown, pav etc numbers.




But it looks like crap in the IdealScope image and the model.




Leading laboratory or not....it does not mean there is not some desire for more information than the GIA cert presents.

 

[diamondsman]

I did read that post and that stone was not withing the criterias that I have written, (ie the girdle)
Please read my comments thoroughly! I stand by what I said.

 

[Mara]

From the thread, it seemed as though even if that stone had a better girdle, more within the ranges deemed acceptable by whomever....it still would not have performed well. Note what MDX said about the girdle & pavilion facets. He also noted that the girdle was not the problem making the stone a dog.




Stand by what you said...but at least allow that it is quite possible that not EVERY stone in your parameters is going to perform well. That's an absolute and of course...nothing is absolute when it comes to diamonds.

 

[diamondsman]

With all due respect I respect your opinon, But I don't agree with you,I purchase plenty of stones withing the parameters I indicated and have no problems selling them to the toughest buyers ,that specialize in ags stones and ideal makes and they accept it ,I don't know if you see many diamonds during the day like I do,(which I am sure you don't as you are not in the business) but I still say ,stay with the parameters indicated and you will have the same type of stone without paying the premium.

over and out

 

[Mara]

----------------
On 1/12/2004 3:22:39 PM diamondsman wrote:





I don't know if you see many diamonds during the day like I do,(which I am sure you don't as you are not in the business)
----------------

Very true.

 

[highendgems]

i agree with the others about the VVS1 being a bit nutz due to the fact that there is no visible difference between VVS and a true VS IMO. So save some money, get a larger stone or go up in color. The people that are saying go w/ SI1 are not in your mind frame--they are people who could not afford the type of stone you are looking at--no offense to them, but i can tell what you are looking for, and an SI1, will NOT provide that for you. even a clean well cut SI1 looks worlds apart from a well cut VS or VVS stone. its amazing when seeing SI1s facing up eye clean due to white inclusions next to VS or VVS stones that actually look CLEAR.

 

[Mara]

----------------
On 1/12/2004 4:49:14 PM highendgems wrote:











The people that are saying go w/ SI1 are not in your mind frame--they are people who could not afford the type of stone you are looking at--no offense to them,

----------------

It's not about affording a VVS1. I may have alot of money to spend on the stone, but I would NEVER NEVER NEVER put it in a VVS clarity grade on purpose. If that is what you end up with because that is all that was available, great...but to go something like H VVS *on purpose* to me is a waste of your money to be very blunt. I would continue to look for a G VS or similar before I bought H VVS and paid that VVS markup on an H stone. Why drop that far in color to get clarity you WON'T SEE...regardless of whatever you say about 'clear' stones. Ridiculous.