i can''t get myself wear my ring (help?!)

[Cehrabehra]

I cannot tell you how many times in 18 years of marriage I have had my husband do something and thought, ''oh hell no can I do this another 20 years'' or whatever... that whatever he did was so thoughtless I deserved better or at least he didn''t deserve me. Sometimes you get so pissed you think all kinds of crazy things. I know early on I needed so much reinforcement and when I was let down it crushed me. But marriage cannot be sustained in that environment. Men cannot read our minds and we have to be very clear on things. If you think your wound cannot be fixed - move on NOW. If you think maybe you''re being sensitive and you need to work together on communication and you really want things to work out in the end, put the ring on and start that NOW too.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 10/6/2009 10:46:56 AM
Author: b.anna
well after reading all this, i do question whether i am ready to marry him. for me, i would be more than ready to marry him but IF and only IF we got through this situation together. it''s definitely not my style to say sorry and move on, esp if the sorry didn''t mean anything. i can''t count the number of times he''s said he''s sorry and has not meant it. he has a tendency to repeat bad habits, and i''m afraid this is going to be one of them again. in our situation, i don''t think it''s too much to ask of him to be more understanding and emotionally supportive of why i am so sad by feeling let down and abandoned while he ignores the fact that i am in not in a good place now. he''s being better than he would be in most situations where he tells me why i shouldn''t be upset. now he just asks me to talk to him and says nothing in return.

i''m sorry i if i wasn''t clear earlier: he has no stigma towards counseling, as his parents went through it (individually though). his mom had a very very messed up childhood and went through 10 years of counseling and now she''s in a great place in her life. he has always supported therapy too (his business partner has a therapist and he''s doing great too). but for some reason, he does not see the benefit for us. my suspicion (and i have no evidence to this theory) is that everyone in town knows him (we live in a very small town where everyone knows everyone else''s business) and he''s afraid that someone will find out we are going to counseling and talk about it.

i feel like i am really committed to this because i am trying so hard to find a solution, but feel like he''s not really cooperating. even though i am not wearing the ring does not mean i love him any less or am telling him that i have no interest in this anymore. if i wasn''t as committed as to when i was wearing the ring, i would have taken my puppy, packed up my stuff, and be living MUCH closer to where i work a long long time ago!

the only thing i see working now is for us to spend some time apart, for me to seek individual counseling and figure out if it''s just me and not him at all.

freke, i really agree with you on that, i think you hit it spot on. i never thought he could be so insensitive about this whole mess. he isn''t the most outgoing, talkative, animated person, but he really needs to show something because at this point i don''t even know if he loves me at all. he makes it seem like its so easy to ignore and push out of his mind while i am in many ways falling apart.

i''m not trying to shift blame to him, as i know i have things to work out on my own too that i''m working on currently. but i am just done with him apologizing and moving on, because it hasn''t benefitted our relationship at all. i almost feel like he gives me a sense of false hope when he does that because history has shown that he forgets that he apolgoized and promised not to do it again, and then months later, commits the offense again! now i am all for apologies, but if you''re not going to fix what went wrong the first time and commit the same thing again later, then to me that apology really means nothing and you ddin''t mean it when you said it.

thanks for all your help, guys. i know i keep saying thanks, but it really means a lot to get feedback from so many of you. thanks for taking the time out

b.anna, let me assure you of one thing: you cannot change someone into what you want them to be. You have to accept who they are -- the good and the bad -- to go into a marriage with someone. It sounds to me as though you already know there are some things that are dealbreakers for you. Instead of trying to fix them, I think it might be wiser to evaluate whether or not you can live with them.

He is who is he, and you''re not going to change him. That doesn''t mean he can''t strive to make you happy and be more considerate. HOWEVER, if you''re expecting to ''fix'' him and ''correct'' him to the point that he should never repeat mistakes, I think you''re going to be gravely disappointed.

You need to decide if you can live with who he is at this very moment. What you see is what you get - the question is ''Is this who/what I want?".

 

[HVVS]

Hey, b.anna. There are men out there who do not know how to treat a woman, and this guy might be one of them. And there are some men for whom the courtship totally ends and the ownership begins as soon as that ring goes on your finger, or the signatures go on the marriage license, or whatever. He apparently has disappointed or disgusted you in what, to you, is a non-trivial way. It's possible that what you are trying to keep under the lid is the realization that for you, this relationship is over. Take a good hard look at what you really want in a man and whether this guy is it. If a marriage is over before it even starts, it won't do anything but get worse with time. If he takes you for granted now, or puts you into a subordinant role, or parks you at home while he goes out and runs with the boys (or girls), it will not get better after a few years of sameness and daily grind of married life.

On the other hand, since you mentioned depression, perhaps you are depressed and that is making you over-react to things that you should just shrug off and ignore. Before you dump this guy and/or end the relationship, be sure to examine your own behaviors and decide whether you are being grown-up about the situation. They say that depression is anger turned inward, so find out what you might be angry about and how that situation can be improved. Don't have great expectations that a husband will baby you a lot. He won't for very long. You're a partner, so stand up for yourself and take care of your own responsibilities. If you are too weak, he'll get fed up and find someone easier to work with, or more fun to be with.

Also, there are still some men who have been raised to not show much emotion. That doesn't mean they don't have any.

If the relationship ends, don't sit mourning it forever. Do what men do: Replace.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 10/6/2009 10:46:56 AM
Author: b.anna
in our situation, i don''t think it''s too much to ask of him to be more understanding and emotionally supportive of why i am so sad by feeling let down and abandoned while he ignores the fact that i am in not in a good place now. he''s being better than he would be in most situations where he tells me why i shouldn''t be upset. now he just asks me to talk to him and says nothing in return.

i''m not trying to shift blame to him, as i know i have things to work out on my own too that i''m working on currently. but i am just done with him apologizing and moving on, because it hasn''t benefitted our relationship at all. i almost feel like he gives me a sense of false hope when he does that because history has shown that he forgets that he apolgoized and promised not to do it again, and then months later, commits the offense again! now i am all for apologies, but if you''re not going to fix what went wrong the first time and commit the same thing again later, then to me that apology really means nothing and you ddin''t mean it when you said it.

thanks for all your help, guys. i know i keep saying thanks, but it really means a lot to get feedback from so many of you. thanks for taking the time out

OK, first of all, sometimes it is too much to ask men to be more understanding and emotionally supportive, because GENERALLY speaking, this tends to be a female/XX trait and obviously men only have half the X and the Y can even negate that.

Women would make their life easier if they could understand that MEN ARE NOT WOMEN. They are wired differently! For some, emotional support means giving you an awkward pat on the back and perfect silence (so they won''t say something stupid.) This is why men LOVE their buddies! They can hang out and not have to give anyone emotional support because many simply do not know HOW.

I mean, look at the words even! Man. Woman. Man can only be half of what woman needs to be a woman. So don''t rely on them to meet your emotional needs!

One of the most perplexing things I see with my girlfriends is when they say "he said sorry but didn''t really mean it." This is frustrating! Yes, I realize some people say "Sorry" as a way of saying "If I say sorry, will you SHUT UP?" I get that. But in order to keep "Sorry" as a word of value, you need to receive it as a valuable word and sentiment. If you don''t move on because he wasn''t sorry enough, what is the point of him even saying it in the first place? Sorry becomes worthless to everyone.

People make mistakes, all the time. The same ones even. That doesn''t mean they aren''t really sorry for the last time it happened. Dogs do not learn new tricks by chastising the dog once. It takes time, patience, and love. And even TGuy will say this...some women do treat men like dogs by constantly trying to train them by berating them. It may work, but you are going to have a dog who generally tries to avoid you and always has his tail between his legs. TGuy is happy to admit he is a trainable dog (hee hee) but love and praise work so much better.

 

[b.anna]

Date: 10/6/2009 3:49:06 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/6/2009 10:46:56 AM

Author: b.anna

in our situation, i don''t think it''s too much to ask of him to be more understanding and emotionally supportive of why i am so sad by feeling let down and abandoned while he ignores the fact that i am in not in a good place now. he''s being better than he would be in most situations where he tells me why i shouldn''t be upset. now he just asks me to talk to him and says nothing in return.


i''m not trying to shift blame to him, as i know i have things to work out on my own too that i''m working on currently. but i am just done with him apologizing and moving on, because it hasn''t benefitted our relationship at all. i almost feel like he gives me a sense of false hope when he does that because history has shown that he forgets that he apolgoized and promised not to do it again, and then months later, commits the offense again! now i am all for apologies, but if you''re not going to fix what went wrong the first time and commit the same thing again later, then to me that apology really means nothing and you ddin''t mean it when you said it.


thanks for all your help, guys. i know i keep saying thanks, but it really means a lot to get feedback from so many of you. thanks for taking the time out

OK, first of all, sometimes it is too much to ask men to be more understanding and emotionally supportive, because GENERALLY speaking, this tends to be a female/XX trait and obviously men only have half the X and the Y can even negate that.


Women would make their life easier if they could understand that MEN ARE NOT WOMEN. They are wired differently! For some, emotional support means giving you an awkward pat on the back and perfect silence (so they won''t say something stupid.) This is why men LOVE their buddies! They can hang out and not have to give anyone emotional support because many simply do not know HOW.


I mean, look at the words even! Man. Woman. Man can only be half of what woman needs to be a woman. So don''t rely on them to meet your emotional needs!


One of the most perplexing things I see with my girlfriends is when they say ''he said sorry but didn''t really mean it.'' This is frustrating! Yes, I realize some people say ''Sorry'' as a way of saying ''If I say sorry, will you SHUT UP?'' I get that. But in order to keep ''Sorry'' as a word of value, you need to receive it as a valuable word and sentiment. If you don''t move on because he wasn''t sorry enough, what is the point of him even saying it in the first place? Sorry becomes worthless to everyone.


People make mistakes, all the time. The same ones even. That doesn''t mean they aren''t really sorry for the last time it happened. Dogs do not learn new tricks by chastising the dog once. It takes time, patience, and love. And even TGuy will say this...some women do treat men like dogs by constantly trying to train them by berating them. It may work, but you are going to have a dog who generally tries to avoid you and always has his tail between his legs. TGuy is happy to admit he is a trainable dog (hee hee) but love and praise work so much better.

thanks everyone.

TGal - i appreciate your feedback above. but in some ways i can''t help this feeling i have of coming off as a high-maintenance whiny person. it''s very clear to be that we are very different people and interpret things differently, and so i do appreciate your feedback. indeed i''ll never understand men as i am not one, but i don''t think it''s unreasonable to ask the person who i''m potentially going to marry to be more understanding and a little more emotionally supportive. i don''t think i''m trying to turn the world upside down here. he has certainly asked me to change in ways that would benefit the relationship, and i have, because i could and i knew it was better to change all around. the whole apology issue we have is such old history, that i hate it when it keeps coming back up. believe me, we''d had MILLIONS of discussions about him apologizing and not keeping his word to stop doing the same things. and they very little things that could easily change with some effort on his part. he''s not a dog at all! and i hate using that kind of comparison because i''m not trying to train him to be the man i want him to be. i am not perfect, how am i supposed to expect him to be the same? i don''t berate him at all (i used to, but he told me it doesn''t do him any good, so i stopped, and it has worked), and right now ive pretty much given up

i know he means the best intentions by saying he''s sorry, but he just doesn''t have the sense to remember what got us in trouble before and he keeps doing the same things over and over again. im not talking 2 or 3 times, i mean CONSTANTLY like the initial incident never happened. i hate nothing more than feeling like a broken record because it means we''re not making any progress in improving our relationship.... just for the record, we''re not having kids if we get married he''s a grown man and should know when to take responsibility for his actions, not just say sorry and forget the whole thing ever happened, and then do the same thing over and over again. if it''s not DELIVERED in a sentimental way and without value how can i take it whole heartedly?

 

[Pandora II]

Honestly, I think you should maybe get away by yourself for a few days and really think about whether you want to be with this guy.

From what I''m reading in your posts it sounds like you have a gut feeling that things aren''t right, but hope they will become so because when things are good they are great.

IMHO when you marry someone you do so knowing that what you see is what you are getting - not what you might manage to make them become or even what they might manage to turn themselves into.

My husband married me knowing that I was very far from being a domestic goddess. Would he like me to become one? Sure! Will I ever be one? Hey, we have a cleaning lady! No chance! So he knows better than to say anything because he decided he could live with my inability to put things back where they belong.

My sister married a man she thought would change... nine years on and two kids later... well, my father told me on the phone this evening that things are bad AGAIN. Yawn. He only said it in passing as this has been the same way for as long as they have been together. The problems were all there before they got married - she thought he would be different once they had rings on. So, they''ve been miserable together for over 10 years now...

Having just had a baby I''m currently very aware of the potential that parenthood has to put strain on a relationship. I am extremely lucky that DH is hugely emotionally supportive and 150% reliable. I''m finding things very tough at the moment and if he was someone who screwed with my mind and feelings I would be a complete mess.

You''re not married yet, so take a good look at things as they stand and if they''re not what you want to spend the rest of your life with then there is no shame in moving on!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 10/6/2009 8:48:18 PM
Author: Pandora II
Honestly, I think you should maybe get away by yourself for a few days and really think about whether you want to be with this guy.

From what I''m reading in your posts it sounds like you have a gut feeling that things aren''t right, but hope they will become so because when things are good they are great.

IMHO when you marry someone you do so knowing that what you see is what you are getting - not what you might manage to make them become or even what they might manage to turn themselves into.

My husband married me knowing that I was very far from being a domestic goddess. Would he like me to become one? Sure! Will I ever be one? Hey, we have a cleaning lady! No chance! So he knows better than to say anything because he decided he could live with my inability to put things back where they belong.

My sister married a man she thought would change... nine years on and two kids later... well, my father told me on the phone this evening that things are bad AGAIN. Yawn. He only said it in passing as this has been the same way for as long as they have been together. The problems were all there before they got married - she thought he would be different once they had rings on. So, they''ve been miserable together for over 10 years now...

Having just had a baby I''m currently very aware of the potential that parenthood has to put strain on a relationship. I am extremely lucky that DH is hugely emotionally supportive and 150% reliable. I''m finding things very tough at the moment and if he was someone who screwed with my mind and feelings I would be a complete mess.

You''re not married yet, so take a good look at things as they stand and if they''re not what you want to spend the rest of your life with then there is no shame in moving on!

+1

 

[purrfectpear]

Let me preface this arm-chair analysis by stating that clearly I don''t know the real you, I can only go by your posts, your phrasing, the way you sound based only on your words.

You don''t coming off as a high-maintenance whiny person IMO.

You DO come off as an unusually fragile person who seems to have an overwhelming need to be propped up emotionally. Further, you become extremely resentful when you perceive that support is missing or not provided in exactly the preconceived way you want it? In short, you just don''t seem ready for the harsh reality of marriage with all it''s disappointments and foibles?

You sound like a very sweet young woman who would benefit from some individual therapy to help you identify areas of codependent tendencies in yourself. It''s really hard to have a healthy relationship when your sense of self and well being are derived from the other person.

 

[litebrite]

B.Anna, I brought up the struggles and pressures of med school and residency because well, if he isn''t doing a good job of supporting you now, you are really only going to get more stressed down the line, with less time to talk, communicate, and generally do all the romantic things you would like to, and all the down time activities that bring couples together.

I wish you the best, and hope that you can find the answers you are seeking. And I agree with others that even if he is unwilling to go to therapy with you, it could benefit you to go on your own. A lot of people on this board have some very smart advice, including the fact that it is incredibly hard for people to change, and part of it is figuring out what you can live with and what you can''t. Good luck hun.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Let me say that those long standing fights stick around... fights that Jose and I have had since the first year of marriage still occasionally rear up and at first we weren''t productive about how to deal with them. Bottom line is - we''re just different people. Now we have learned to have a lot of humor about it, but it was more than a decade of marriage - more than 15 years to really start doing that.

 

[b.anna]

thanks for the stories - they sound scary but are very real. my parents are going through something similar, and since their kids are all grown up now it seems like they''re ready to part their separate ways. i would hate to have that kind of marriage.

FI seems really concerned but doesn''t seem to want to invest the energy to fix much of it. i''m trying to debate getting out now so i don''t lose my sense of self. i''ll definitley be fine if we parted ways, but it would also be sad (of course).

anybody know how to go about getting some counseling? i know it takes time to find the right therapist/counselor, but does this mean i have to go "shopping" for the right counselor?

 

[litebrite]

There are plenty of reviews of restaurants, etc online. You''ll find less of therapists, but you can try searching there first. If you have any friends you can confide in and ask for recs, that is good as well. Other than that, it''s pretty much meeting with them and seeing if you have a good vibe, just like any other doctor or dentist.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 10/6/2009 11:07:58 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Let me preface this arm-chair analysis by stating that clearly I don''t know the real you, I can only go by your posts, your phrasing, the way you sound based only on your words.

You don''t coming off as a high-maintenance whiny person IMO.

You DO come off as an unusually fragile person who seems to have an overwhelming need to be propped up emotionally. Further, you become extremely resentful when you perceive that support is missing or not provided in exactly the preconceived way you want it? In short, you just don''t seem ready for the harsh reality of marriage with all it''s disappointments and foibles?

You sound like a very sweet young woman who would benefit from some individual therapy to help you identify areas of codependent tendencies in yourself. It''s really hard to have a healthy relationship when your sense of self and well being are derived from the other person.

Sorry PP, I often think you''ve hit the nail on the head, but not this time.

Initially I thought the OP had this issue with her ring after a one off incident, but as her posts have gone on it seems to me that the real issue is his continually broken promises and inability to make minor changes to avoid upsetting her. I don''t see that as co-dependent...

This kind of behaviour is a serious red flag when it comes to marriage. You need to be able to rely on your partner to be there and always put your family unit first unless there is a damn good reason not to.

I also think your statement about the ''harsh reality of marriage'' is neither helpful or even true. Yes not everyday will be a fairytale, but unhappiness and disappointment should NOT be normal in any marriage. There is far too much talking about how you should ''work'' at marriage etc - IMHO a good marriage should not be hard work and if you have to work at it before you walk down the aisle then get the heck out before you make a big mistake. If you really want to encourage co-dependent behaviour then go ahead and convince someone that it''s normal to feel disappointed with your partner and that sucking it up somehow makes you ready for marriage.

I''ve been with my husband for over 5 years and living with him for all but 3 months of that - I have NEVER had to work at our relationship. That is why I married him. Someday we may perhaps encounter an issue where we will need to, but it''s not a daily or weekly thing. I''ve spent years (in one case 7 years) of my life with men where I was always ''working'' at our relationship - and thought that this was how a mature grown-up should behave. In reality a mature grown-up would have told the guy where to get off and looked after their own happiness.

b.anna, I''m not sure how you''d find a counsellor - perhaps try googling one in your area or perhaps asking your doctor''s office if they have recommendations.

Please also consider how his current behaviour pattern will affect you if you had kids in the mix.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 10/6/2009 8:30:48 PM
Author: b.anna


i know he means the best intentions by saying he''s sorry, but he just doesn''t have the sense to remember what got us in trouble before and he keeps doing the same things over and over again. im not talking 2 or 3 times, i mean CONSTANTLY like the initial incident never happened. i hate nothing more than feeling like a broken record because it means we''re not making any progress in improving our relationship.... just for the record, we''re not having kids if we get married he''s a grown man and should know when to take responsibility for his actions, not just say sorry and forget the whole thing ever happened, and then do the same thing over and over again. if it''s not DELIVERED in a sentimental way and without value how can i take it whole heartedly?

I honestly don''t think you''re being high-maintenance or whiny.

I think you''re struggling with the realization that his behavior isn''t likely going to change. It seems like you''ve tried to move on as though it won''t be a dealbreaker, but the fact that you can''t get past it means it probably IS a dealbreaker.

It''s a tough spot to be in, and I hope you can make the right choice for you.

 

[junebug17]

Date: 10/7/2009 10:21:20 AM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 10/6/2009 11:07:58 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Let me preface this arm-chair analysis by stating that clearly I don''t know the real you, I can only go by your posts, your phrasing, the way you sound based only on your words.

You don''t coming off as a high-maintenance whiny person IMO.

You DO come off as an unusually fragile person who seems to have an overwhelming need to be propped up emotionally. Further, you become extremely resentful when you perceive that support is missing or not provided in exactly the preconceived way you want it? In short, you just don''t seem ready for the harsh reality of marriage with all it''s disappointments and foibles?

You sound like a very sweet young woman who would benefit from some individual therapy to help you identify areas of codependent tendencies in yourself. It''s really hard to have a healthy relationship when your sense of self and well being are derived from the other person.

Sorry PP, I often think you''ve hit the nail on the head, but not this time.

Initially I thought the OP had this issue with her ring after a one off incident, but as her posts have gone on it seems to me that the real issue is his continually broken promises and inability to make minor changes to avoid upsetting her. I don''t see that as co-dependent...

This kind of behaviour is a serious red flag when it comes to marriage. You need to be able to rely on your partner to be there and always put your family unit first unless there is a damn good reason not to.

I also think your statement about the ''harsh reality of marriage'' is neither helpful or even true. Yes not everyday will be a fairytale, but unhappiness and disappointment should NOT be normal in any marriage. There is far too much talking about how you should ''work'' at marriage etc - IMHO a good marriage should not be hard work and if you have to work at it before you walk down the aisle then get the heck out before you make a big mistake. If you really want to encourage co-dependent behaviour then go ahead and convince someone that it''s normal to feel disappointed with your partner and that sucking it up somehow makes you ready for marriage.

I''ve been with my husband for over 5 years and living with him for all but 3 months of that - I have NEVER had to work at our relationship. That is why I married him. Someday we may perhaps encounter an issue where we will need to, but it''s not a daily or weekly thing. I''ve spent years (in one case 7 years) of my life with men where I was always ''working'' at our relationship - and thought that this was how a mature grown-up should behave. In reality a mature grown-up would have told the guy where to get off and looked after their own happiness.

b.anna, I''m not sure how you''d find a counsellor - perhaps try googling one in your area or perhaps asking your doctor''s office if they have recommendations.

Please also consider how his current behaviour pattern will affect you if you had kids in the mix.

Pandora II, I agree 100% with your post, I think it''s the best response so far on this thread. This should be included in a book on relationships.

 

[b.anna]

thanks everyone, i definitely have a better perspective on my relationship with B.

similar to some, i really thought that a mature relationship was one where we would always have to work on it, always talk through everything, and that nothing can just "work" well. but to be honest, i am EXHAUSTED with this type of relationship. thank you for the realization that it shouldn''t be this hard and that this is not normal. i''ve always felt that if im not working to improve it, then i''m being lazy, or im not committing enough to the relationship.

i''m going to have to plan next steps, but thank you all SO much for your input, feedback, thoughts! this is an amazing place, i''m so glad i found it

 

[luv2sparkle]

good for you b.anna. This guy doesn''t sound right for you, I think you are right to expect all those things you mentioned. hope all goes well for you. Hugs and more hugs.