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I bought a D Fl 3Ex diamond, but does it have a good cut?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by A0sdfasdf, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. A0sdfasdf
    Rough_Rock

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    by A0sdfasdf » Aug 12, 2019
    Without doing much research I tried to look for a "perfect" diamond on paper l, but since then I checked several parameters online and seems like the "excellent" cut of the diamond is not as good as I think, especially it is not AGS ideal.
    How far is it from ideal? And how much does it affect the look of the diamond? IMG-20190803-WA0005.jpg
     
    


    


  2. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 12, 2019
    The most obvious sign of cut perfection is the pattern of reflections in the stone. There is no account of this on GIA reports.
     
  3. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 12, 2019
    Unfortunately this is not a very well cut diamond. Cut is king in terms of diamond performance. Almost no one will know that a diamond is "flawless" clarity or D color--all anyone sees is sparkle and how "lively" the stone is--which is all about cut. In sub-1ct stones, D-G and often H/I all look pretty white, and anything VS2 and above is eye clean (many SI1s are eye clean as well). So I strongly suggest that you return (if possible) and let us help you find a stone that performs much better than this one.

    PS. GIA XXX doesn't actually mean very much in terms of cut. It's an extremely broad category that includes both great stones and horrible ones. AGS 000 is much more accurate. But GIA XXX is not enough to know it's well cut without more information.
     
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  4. A0sdfasdf
    Rough_Rock

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    by A0sdfasdf » Aug 12, 2019
    I contacted the company right after I realized the cut, but they said the procedure of putting it onto a ring has already begun and no return is allowed after it.
    Is there any suggestion I can do?
     
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  5. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 12, 2019
    If you cannot persuade them, do not doubt the rock...
     
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  6. A0sdfasdf
    Rough_Rock

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    by A0sdfasdf » Aug 12, 2019
    Ya, I just wish to know how bad is the cut and find a way to persuade myself to accept it.
    As a perfectionist, I find it really hard.
     
  7. A0sdfasdf
    Rough_Rock

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    by A0sdfasdf » Aug 12, 2019
    I think I'll get the ring soon, would it be possible for you to review it by looking at the picture I take once I get hold of it?
     
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  8. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 12, 2019
    This is what this forum is for! .)
     
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  9. anon34985
    Shiny_Rock

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    by anon34985 » Aug 12, 2019
    I just want to share a small anecdote if you aren’t able to return! I got my stone, also a GIA excellent cut, and after the return period I typed it into the HCA and it got an awful score, some posters will remember I was having a bit of a panic attack haha. That was a few months ago, anyways, since then, I have gotten over it and learned to love my stone for what it is, and I do get a ton of compliments on it! However, that is not to say I will not take all of this amazing info I learned for my next stone purchase. But sometimes instead of fretting if there is nothing to be done, embracing what you have (and cleaning the stone often lol) helps!!
     
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  10. Bron357
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Bron357 » Aug 12, 2019
    Your diamond will be beautiful.
    It is probable that alongside an AGS000 an experienced eye will be able to detect a difference in dispersion and cut but to mostly everyone else’s eye it will be gorgeous.
     
    


    


  11. Garry H (Cut Nut)
    Super_Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Aug 13, 2019
    It is not a train wreck if you keep it clean.
    I suggest half a cup of boiling water and a dash of cluody ammonia and dish detergent. Scrub esp from behind with a stiff tooth brush and rinse well.
    upload_2019-8-13_15-26-2.png
     
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  12. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Aug 13, 2019
    A MRB behaves very predictably. The stone will have light leakage under the table, most likely. However, there is a slim chance, it may not.

    It all sounds all negative. HOWEVER, you need to remember that most diamonds are cut to preserve carat weight as much as possible. This is especially true for a D FL/IF. Finding a near super ideal D FL/IF is extremely difficult.

    In the world of D FL/IF, your stone is actually decently cut.

    Please post some photos when you get the ring. We can review if you really want.
    Read this thread on diamond photography.
    https://www.pricescope.com/communit...light-performance-diamond-photography.227610/
    https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/dyi-aset-nerdy-stuff-ver-2-0.234343/
     
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  13. A0sdfasdf
    Rough_Rock

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    by A0sdfasdf » Aug 13, 2019
    20190813_164236.jpg
    20190813_170445.jpg
    20190813_170428.jpg 20190813_170406.jpg
    This is the best my phone can do in terms of focusing on the diamond, are they clear enough for a review?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  14. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » Aug 13, 2019
    To ask - did you order it online and pay for it by credit card?

    If so, you may automatically be entitled to a 14 day 'cooling off' period, within which you can return it. (We can do that in the UK.)
     
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  15. tyty333
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by tyty333 » Aug 13, 2019
    Where did you get it from? If you bought it on-line can you provide a link to the vendor?

    BTW...it certainly isnt a train wreck!
     
    


    


  16. rocheapplied
    Rough_Rock

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    by rocheapplied » Aug 13, 2019
    I feel for you OP...

    It's not that bad of a cut in my opinion... its still a very rare diamond (D FL) - probably represents <1% of all diamonds out there.

    I went through a similar conundrum and have to sacrifice some of the other Cs to get a diamond recently. Just be rest assured you still have a great diamond!
     
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  17. A0sdfasdf
    Rough_Rock

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    by A0sdfasdf » Aug 13, 2019
    Yes, after getting a look at the real thing, my untrained eye told me that it looks just fine, but the professional opinions here will definitely help as well!
     
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  18. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Aug 13, 2019
    Actually, it is not too bad for a 35.5/41. While there is light leakage, it is not that bad, with the exception of two spots under the table. The pavilion is unevenly cut (12 and 1 o' clock in the first photo. 6 o' clock and 730 in the last photo). Enjoy the ring. I agree with you; it should be just fine IRL. We are just super critical.

    BTW, very good job with the photos:appl::appl::appl:
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  19. Fabulous50
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fabulous50 » Aug 13, 2019
    @anon34985 - I really relate to this, I began to understand so much more about cut from this site after my hubby bought my diamond. It also gets a terrible score on HCA, but I love it an it looks very sparkly to me!!
     
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  20. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 13, 2019
    It's definitely not a bad stone,and the pics show that the leakage isn't horrible. If you can't return then I wouldn't stress too much about it.
     
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  21. A0sdfasdf
    Rough_Rock

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    by A0sdfasdf » Aug 13, 2019
    So the cut can still be uneven even if it has excellent symmetry?
     
  22. A0sdfasdf
    Rough_Rock

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    by A0sdfasdf » Aug 13, 2019
    Thanks but please do share your honest opinion so that I can get more educated about the issue!
     
  23. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 13, 2019
    It has leakage, so it's not an ideal cut. And for me cut is #1 and I am very flexible about color and clarity. So it wouldn't be my choice, but it's certainly not horrible or something that looks bad to the average viewer. I'm sure IRL is very sparkly and nice.
     
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  24. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » Aug 13, 2019
    The usual Pricescope-recommended angles and measurements for MRBs are as follows:

    Table 54-58 or 59%
    Depth 60-62.4%
    Pavilion angle 40.6-40.9 degrees
    Crown angle 34-35 degrees (up to 35.5 or 36 with a shallow crown angle, i.e. 40.6)

    When the crown angle increases, the pavilion angle should decrease, and vice versa.

    The HCA tool is a way to check stones have angles that complement each other (amongst other clever things!) so if you are searching for a particular specification, you can use the search bar at the top of the forum, enter your preferences, and then in the Advanced Filters section, select 'Excellent' in the HCA section. This will help sift out the stones that are cut to retain weight at the expense of performance, for example, leaving you with stones that should perform well.
     
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  25. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 13, 2019
    I am the coward who did not mention the HCA result at the head of this thread...

    I do not know if I would consider this lesser brilliance as a fault every day - this little adds to contrast and fire (from the neighbouring, strongly reflecting virtual facets).

    I see what the HCA says in pictures No. 2, 3 & 4; if you had only posted the first one, I would have to think before seeing.

    I don't think I have ever held a D/FL, in fact... the grade is so rarely given; I'd take my time to look at the NOTHING in it! I do not have a clear idea of what perfect cut is - the many details I came to admire in many cut models do not make sense together & 'balance' is a muddle.
    _

    Digressing,
    Here's a story: WWW
     
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  26. lydial
    Shiny_Rock

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    by lydial » Aug 14, 2019
    Just enjoy it! My mother had a D/FL 1 ct exact engagement diamond. My parents got engaged in 1969. She chipped it (ahh!) when I was a child, and never wore it again, then her entire jewelry collection was stolen in a burglary (double ahh!) in the 90’s. Sorry for the long story. Anyway, even though it was a chipped unset diamond, pre-ideal era, I still can remember how much it sparkled. It looked like a tiny disco ball. She let me look at it when I wanted. It was exquisite. I would someday love a D/FL but for now I love my “warm” diamonds!!!
     
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  27. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Aug 14, 2019
    While it may be a pain, now is the time to take action rather than later. I'm not sure the vendor/jeweler but a reasonable request is to exchange the stone for a different one while allowing them to keep the overall sale. I can understand they mounted the stone, etc and if you have to pay a few hundred bucks to remove and reset your new stone that is understandable, although many of our vendors here would replace for free as they want you loving your ring and experience with them, especially if you are within 14-30 days of receipt of the ring.

    If push comes to shove, look over your paper work for the return/refund policy. Exercise it if needed. Alternatively, as suggested, most credit cards have added protection for disputes, refunds, etc.

    Diamond specifics aside for a quick second, and I do like your overall vision. Love the setting as its thin and tapers in to make the stone look larger. A D/FL is definitely a rare beast and is perfect color and clarity obviously.

    But if I'm being brutally honest it would drive me bonkers to know I paid hefty premiums for unneeded perfections and then to not have the most ideal and perfect cut available. For me, that means a stone with authentic heart & arrow (H&A) symmetry and ideal proportions in every regards.

    Buying what we call a super ideal is a quick and easy way to find such a finely cut stone. As already noted the bulk of GIA triple X stones rarely meets this cut criteria but with careful searching you can get very close. The issue I see is D/FL is such a narrow selection of stones it may be an extremely difficult find.

    FWIW, if you can live with D/IF then here are some possible super ideal alternates:

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4146196.htm

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4092502.htm

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4081332.htm
     
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  28. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Aug 14, 2019
    I had a few minutes to spare and was looking on Rare Carat for some GIA triple X stones that may work for you.

    Here are a few things I found:

    0.82ct D IF @ $9,760
    https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.82-carat-d-if-yd6661033

    56 table, 60.5 depth, 34 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 80 LGF

    Specs are within PS recommendations, and complimentary. No advanced images to confirm performance & symmetry. 0.8 HCA score so promising.

    My draw back is you can get a guaranteed super ideal with images, etc and KNOW you have a performer with the WF stone I linked above vs GUESSING this one is good. I'd go WF in a heart beat.


    0.85ct D IF $7,774
    https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.85-carat-d-fl-yd7346934

    56 table, 61.6 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 75 LGF

    Similar to the above stone. HCA on this one is 0.9, but like the other you have no advanced images to confirm or deny greatness. Also the price is only a few hundred dollars cheaper than the guaranteed performer from WF. My synopsis is the same -- buy the stone from WF.


    0.84ct D FL @ $7,518
    https://www.withclarity.com/diamond/6336039451?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc
    https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.84-carat-d-fl-yd7256493
    https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/0....7.535&p=1&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc
    https://www.doamore.com/diamonds/5-653042052/?utm_source=rare_carat&utm_term=Round&utm_content=0.84

    First you will notice, multiple vendors have the same identical stone. Price is just slightly cheaper at With Clarity unless you do the wire transfer option with Yadav.

    More importantly, let's look at proportions -- 56 table, 61.8 depth, 35 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF

    Those fit within the ranges we typically recommend. However, I have warned about this 35/40.8 combo as I see quite a few with leakage in the ASET and/or IS images.

    Unfortunately, this particularly stone is a model example of why I want images prior to committing to that particular angle combo. Look at the leakage from the 10-2 o'clock position, as the white spots in the ASET (circled in yellow for you) clearly show this. It actually looks like the rest of the table is leaking as well, but not quite as bad as the upper half. Or perhaps the lower half was just a bad image.

    Worse yet, as expected, this gets a great HCA score of 1.5 as proportions and predictions can only get us so far.

    But clearly, DO NOT buy this stone. I'm just using it as an example for you and others that may be reading along so you can start learning what to look for and also what to avoid.

    Inked7256493_2_LI.jpg
    Inked653042052_LI.jpg
    CaptureHCA1.PNG

    1.06ct D FL @ $14,940
    https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.06-carat-d-fl-yd7256700
    https://www.withclarity.com/diamond/2337126144?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc
    https://www.doamore.com/diamonds/5-524061620/?utm_source=rare_carat&utm_term=Round&utm_content=1.06

    Again, multiple vendors with the same stone but Yadav has the best price, rather you use wire or not. Also, they provide us an ASET and H&A images to look at.

    The specs -- 57 table, 61.7 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 depth & 75 LGF. :love: :love: :love:

    While you may not yet understand this, the near perfect Tolk angle combo is a 34.5/40.75 so you see lots of people seeking 34.5/40.7 and 34.5/40.8 combos. The table and depth percentages look good from afar as well.

    For grins, let's run it through HCA.....uh oh. :x2

    CaptureHCA2.PNG

    So I open the ASET image and met by this crap. :x2 :x2

    Inked7256700_2_LI.jpg

    [​IMG]

    Leakage in the ASET and the hearts image is a mess to boot. So disappointing how they managed to goof this one up. DO NOT buy this stone. This is another example how proportions may be promising but those performance & symmetry images pay you dividends when shopping for a quality cut diamond. :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:
     
  29. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » Aug 15, 2019 at 4:20 AM
    I'd be really interested to see a SARIN scan on that 0.84.
     
  30. RunningwithScissors
    Rough_Rock

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    by RunningwithScissors » Aug 15, 2019 at 7:13 AM
    I was under the impression that once a FL diamond is mounted, it lowers a grade to an IF (am I mistaken?) So if the OP has their diamond removed from the setting to return it, the diamond will have already come down a grade which would affect its value and possibly the return policy. But perhaps I'm mistaken about this FL to IF devaluation.
     

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