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I adore dark sapphires but want to know if this is a good deal

aep

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
8
This is my first time posting on this site, but been a lurker for some time as I've tried to learn more about sapphires through a lot of online research.

My fiance and I are picking an engagement ring together and going the sapphire route. I've always been a fan of very dark blue sapphire rings, I know that the consensus is that they are not as good quality but for me I think the color of the stone is just as important as cut, etc. Basically I like what I like and I'm okay with them not being as "desirable." That being said there are two stones from James Allen I've been looking at and I wanted some opinions. The first sapphire is less dark than the second (I am a bit worried the second one might look black -- which again I'm okay with in darker lightning but I'm nervous that will be the case always.)

My hope is to find some advice about windows, potential windows, and overall value for these particular stones based on the cushion cut and carat. They ARE heated.

Before people ask I have looked at a lot of diamonds direct sapphires in person that are around this same price unheated. I liked some of them but found a bit of fading and overall the selection was more limited. I'm trying to stay in the 1.8 and above carat range with a price of 3000 or just a bit above if that is doable.

I really appreciate all of your help! The gem stone world can be an intimidating one to jump into.

Sapphire #1
Sapphire #2
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,020
Congratulations on your engagement and i admire you greatly for wanting to choose something that is uniquely you
I think you will have to look long and hard to find the perfect stone if you don't want a black looking colour
I have a saphire ring that is too dark and looks black and it bugs me
I read your post as you would still prefer it to look blue
I have read elsewhere this colour is twlight

Best of luck and i look forward to following your ER journey and seeing what you end up with and how dark you eventually go

IMHO do not buy anything with a window
 

TheGarnetGirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 13, 2018
Messages
1,270
Hello & Welcome to PS! (:
It can be scary and very intimidating to get into colored stones but its best to dive head first! Also you came to the right place! There are many friendly people here that would love to help you find your ideal stone!

I love that you're enamored with the darker variety as there are some that are called royal or velvet royal that can land on the darker side but still have a nice rich blue! You don't want a nice sapphire to black out in most lighting!

Unfortunately, I do think that the ones you picked will tend to look so dark that they black out; especially indoors. You also should know that listing photos for most vendors are manipulated with lighting or certain backgrounds so the images you see are the stones at their absolute best.

Look up royal blue sapphires and let me know what you think! Also if you have any pictures of your ideal sapphire shade I'm sure everyone here will help you find the perfect one!

Oh & this chart gets posted on PS quite often but its very handy dandy as far as blue sapphire colors go! What color are you most drawn to?

sapphire_color_chart.jpg
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,218
Unfortinately I think both of these will look black once set. James allen isn't great for colored stones. I would recommend looking at the trusted CS vendors listed on the stickied post at the top of this forum
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,324
Congratulations on your engagement.
And if you love dark sapphires, you will LOVE Australian sapphires!
As others will agree, James Allen is very expensive for what you get.
As a proud Aussie and as I have met with Doug Menadue from Bespoke Gems, please have a look at his website.
He sources beautiful gemstones and cuts them. His prices are excellent AND if you’re in the US your US dollar buys lots of Aussie dollars! Meaning you are in a fabulous favourable buying position.
He is recommended by many Pricescopers who have bought from him. It’s no problem to ship gems Safely Internationally (Especially from Australia to the US, UK etc) so don’t let that put you off.
 

reirei

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
86
@aep I adore royal blue sapphires and dark sapphires too so we’re in the same boat! I agree that both the stones you posted would just black out and not be the shade you like once set.

I’ve been stalking all the price scope recommended colored stones vendors list this month.
(See latest post (all the way at the bottom) in https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/list-of-vendors-for-reference.208782/)

Have you see the stones from gemfix? His sapphires are more expensive than others but have beautiful cuts and good return policy.

I also have been looking at the videos from AJS gems as they have a 20 percent sale off all their gems and sapphires this month (they are based in Bangkok but are a price scope recommended vendor with a good return policy).

I would encourage you to see as many as possible in person with good return policies so you can make sure you get the one that’s right for you!

You may not be comfortable with buying from instagram directly but these accounts have been great eye candy for me and for me to understand more what I like in sapphires:

thegemcollector

gemoceanltd


 
Last edited:

PieAreSquared

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
224
I second everything said here, no need to worry what "trade ideal" color is, you love what you love!

I also think you can get what you want for a lot less $ than the JamesAllen sapphires.

In addition to Australian sapphires, deeply colored Thai sapphires are a good value too, and from my experience will look darker than pictured -unless you live on the equator.
 

ItsMainelyYou

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
586
A good rule of thumb is to pick a gem that's one or even two shades lighter than what you think you want; once set it'll darken down(sometimes considerably depending on the basket of the ring)
Post some inspo pics of the color or object that is the color you love to start.
PSrs will help you find what you're going for.
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
2,016
Another thing with sapphires is you need to look at the millimeter face up size. I don't see that they give the measurements on James Allen. A lot of sapphires are cut extremely deep and so they will face up small for the weight. When I look at colored stones I do look at the carat weight, but what is more instructive is the millimeter dimensions.

Diamonds by Lauren may be able to help. They are on vacation this week, but for what it's worth they will look at their inventory that's not online for you.

This below is what I would consider a dark sapphire, but I don't think it will look black. Do you like that at all?


Another:


They make excellent quality rings as well if you wanted to do one stop shopping.

You could always send them pictures of stone colors that you liked on their website and they can look and see what they have in your budget.
 

aep

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
8
Hello & Welcome to PS! (:
It can be scary and very intimidating to get into colored stones but its best to dive head first! Also you came to the right place! There are many friendly people here that would love to help you find your ideal stone!

I love that you're enamored with the darker variety as there are some that are called royal or velvet royal that can land on the darker side but still have a nice rich blue! You don't want a nice sapphire to black out in most lighting!

Unfortunately, I do think that the ones you picked will tend to look so dark that they black out; especially indoors. You also should know that listing photos for most vendors are manipulated with lighting or certain backgrounds so the images you see are the stones at their absolute best.

Look up royal blue sapphires and let me know what you think! Also if you have any pictures of your ideal sapphire shade I'm sure everyone here will help you find the perfect one!

Oh & this chart gets posted on PS quite often but its very handy dandy as far as blue sapphire colors go! What color are you most drawn to?

sapphire_color_chart.jpg
Thanks for all of your help! I looked up royal blue sapphires and I still think they are a bit light. I am definitely gravitating towards the twilight color range.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,020
Thanks for all of your help! I looked up royal blue sapphires and I still think they are a bit light. I am definitely gravitating towards the twilight color range.
I can't wait to see what you get and what it looks like once its set =)2
 

GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,479
Congratulations on your engagement.
And if you love dark sapphires, you will LOVE Australian sapphires!
As others will agree, James Allen is very expensive for what you get.
As a proud Aussie and as I have met with Doug Menadue from Bespoke Gems, please have a look at his website.
He sources beautiful gemstones and cuts them. His prices are excellent AND if you’re in the US your US dollar buys lots of Aussie dollars! Meaning you are in a fabulous favourable buying position.
He is recommended by many Pricescopers who have bought from him. It’s no problem to ship gems Safely Internationally (Especially from Australia to the US, UK etc) so don’t let that put you off.
I second the above! :wavey: Both sapphires from JA will look black when set. Give Doug from Bespoke Gems an email - you will be in good hands! Bespoke Gems Sapphires
 

aep

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
8
A good rule of thumb is to pick a gem that's one or even two shades lighter than what you think you want; once set it'll darken down(sometimes considerably depending on the basket of the ring)
Post some inspo pics of the color or object that is the color you love to start.
PSrs will help you find what you're going for.
sapphirecoloring2.jpg sapphirecoloring3.jpg

Since people have asked, these are some of the colors that I enjoy on the sapphires. I am however planning to pair the solitaire with white gold. Out of curiosity, would the setting be darker if it was surrounded by diamonds? I again, plan to have it set raised, with no other stones. Thanks for all your help!
 

aep

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
8
Another thing with sapphires is you need to look at the millimeter face up size. I don't see that they give the measurements on James Allen. A lot of sapphires are cut extremely deep and so they will face up small for the weight. When I look at colored stones I do look at the carat weight, but what is more instructive is the millimeter dimensions.

Diamonds by Lauren may be able to help. They are on vacation this week, but for what it's worth they will look at their inventory that's not online for you.

This below is what I would consider a dark sapphire, but I don't think it will look black. Do you like that at all?


Another:


They make excellent quality rings as well if you wanted to do one stop shopping.

You could always send them pictures of stone colors that you liked on their website and they can look and see what they have in your budget.
That blue cushion cut is a great cut and size but might be a bit too light for me. That being said, I do know that mm is more important than carat because of how they are set. The first JA one is 7.2 but you're right that the second one does not have a measurement.
 

pokerface

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
217
Though the James Allen gems may not be fracture filled, I suspect that they are beryllium (high heat) treated. You can get the same thing practically for free on ebay. Here's the first one I saw: dark blue sapphire. In addition, the James Allen sapphires are very, very gray. I think a lot of colored stone newbies have trouble distinguishing between dark and gray. I know taste is subjective, but I do think that after looking at enough stones, most people learn to prefer gems with less gray or brown.
 

aep

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
8
"You can get the same thing practically for free on ebay" is a big stretch when the link is to a pretty crappy stone. Also that's extremely rude.

I know taste is subjective, and I posted about that at the very beginning of this forum. I came here looking for some help because I HAVE seen some grey sapphires in person and wanted to see what people said about these two particular stones I have not seen in person. So I do recognize those perceived flaws you've mentioned in terms of darkness. I might be a "newbie" but I still have been looking at sapphires online for two years and about ten to fifteen in person trying to find more information -- again why am I here.

There were many nice people who voiced their concerns about it them setting black (which I really appreciated) and turned me to the direction of Australian sapphires or places that had a better cut. They even said you could get this for a lot cheaper, and indeed I found some ones that were in the 1500 range that looked pretty nice. I'm not an expert but there is a big difference between the link you sent me and the JA ones.

I appreciate you telling me the two rings are heated (which I already knew) but the obsession with non dark stones around here is ridiculous. I know what I like and I've admitted it, so why the elitism?
 

ItsMainelyYou

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
586
It's smaller than you're looking for and round but it's very pretty. It will darken down a little, but have lots of life to it.
Is this color too light? Just trying to get a feel.
 
Last edited:

reirei

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
86
It's smaller than you're looking for and round but it's very pretty. It will darken down a little, but have lots of life to it.
Is this color too light? Just trying to get a feel.
Note for the eBay listing above, if you buy from ivy and rose directly it is cheaper!

 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,218
@aep I have a random and out of left field suggestion. Feel free to ignore entirely.

I have a 7.7mm (around 2.1 from what he said) round aussie sapphire cut by Michael E of Gemshoppe (not sure he's selling anymore, but he was on the trusted vendor list).

It is dark (too dark for my personal taste, unfortunately). I keep meaning to replace it in the ring he made me, but keep delaying and/or not getting around to it. If you like it, I"m happy to talk offline about selling to you (you can go on my profile and see the process of having the ring made, etc, when I did it back in 2016).

Here it is in daylight:

20151030_130435.jpg
20151030_130513.jpg



Here it is indoors:
20151029_150528.jpg

20151029_183051.jpg


and here's the vendor pic he took for me under bright jeweler lights (when loose). Obviously it doesn't look this light IRL, and the greenish edge barely shows.
Katherine2.jpg
Katherine1.jpg


All of the pics above were taken when I got the ring in 2016, and I'm happy to take more if you would like!


Even if you don't like the stone itself, I hope it helps in terms of trying to buy something that is at least a few shades lighter than what you want in the end to make sure it doesn't go overly dark in person.

I strongly disagree with @pokerface about the JA stones. I do not recommend them for loose colored stones becuase I think they are often poorly cut and overpriced, but they are a billion times better than the nonsense on ebay. The link to the BE stone isn't comparable to JA. Not trying to defend JA here, since I think buying elsewhere makes sense, but I think the comparison was highly misleading.
 

aep

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
8
@aep I have a random and out of left field suggestion. Feel free to ignore entirely.

I have a 7.7mm (around 2.1 from what he said) round aussie sapphire cut by Michael E of Gemshoppe (not sure he's selling anymore, but he was on the trusted vendor list).

It is dark (too dark for my personal taste, unfortunately). I keep meaning to replace it in the ring he made me, but keep delaying and/or not getting around to it. If you like it, I"m happy to talk offline about selling to you (you can go on my profile and see the process of having the ring made, etc, when I did it back in 2016).

Here it is in daylight:

20151030_130435.jpg
20151030_130513.jpg



Here it is indoors:
20151029_150528.jpg

20151029_183051.jpg


and here's the vendor pic he took for me under bright jeweler lights (when loose). Obviously it doesn't look this light IRL, and the greenish edge barely shows.
Katherine2.jpg
Katherine1.jpg


All of the pics above were taken when I got the ring in 2016, and I'm happy to take more if you would like!


Even if you don't like the stone itself, I hope it helps in terms of trying to buy something that is at least a few shades lighter than what you want in the end to make sure it doesn't go overly dark in person.

I strongly disagree with @pokerface about the JA stones. I do not recommend them for loose colored stones becuase I think they are often poorly cut and overpriced, but they are a billion times better than the nonsense on ebay. The link to the BE stone isn't comparable to JA. Not trying to defend JA here, since I think buying elsewhere makes sense, but I think the comparison was highly misleading.
Thank you for your comments, I very much appreciate them as well as your stone. In my opinion it’s beautiful. YES it does look dark but I think the slight green hints are wonderful. It’s not the cut I enjoy as I’m pretty particular but I very much appreciate you reaching out. Maybe I’ll DM you in the future if you don’t mind :)
 

aep

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
8
It's smaller than you're looking for and round but it's very pretty. It will darken down a little, but have lots of life to it.
Is this color too light? Just trying to get a feel.
Some of them are very nice but not my style in terms of cut none the less I appreciate you looking and posting, I know that takes a lot of time for an Internet stranger, and I appreciate it. (The Montana was spectacular)
 

aep

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
8
I really appreciate everyone’s help but I’m pretty sure I made a mistake coming to these forums and posting rather than just looking at the “suggested vendors.” I felt I was pretty honest with what I want but ultimately I got pushed in certain stone color directions I explicitly said I didn’t like (not referring to dark blue variations but rather full on cornflower status.)

I told my fiance I was coming on this forum to get some advice before ordering from JA (not saying that was the ultimate decision.) He was really supportive to see certain opinions about the dark stones he knows I like. Now I feel thoroughly embarrassed, not because of the setting opinion looking black but because his budget is Soooo much money he could get a thousand gross grey rings. Or his budget is NOT enough to get a substantial real dark Middleton ring. Sorry I can’t remember.

I hope some of you realize how much this place can push people who are really trying to educate themselves away.

Once again I appreciate all those who gave me suggestions, looked up loose stones, etc. but this place is not the nicest to strangers outside of this clique. Pretty sure this counts as a blip in covid times.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,020
@aep follow your heart and you will be happy with your new ring

All the best to you
I hope you might pop back and show us what you end up with

From what ive seen here once something is on someone's finger people are very polite and never put down someone else's ring

Good luck
Stay safe
And congradulations to you both on your engagement
 

uafly1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
14
I have to say I don't like the online world, it's hard to express yourself in words and things can be taken out of context.

It's your ring your choice. I will say in my personal opinion that "dark" sapphires do not always photograph well. I purchased one earlier this year that looks awful in photos but in the light it's stunning because you can see the color shifting. It would be too dark for me, but it's right for me.

Chin up, when you find the right stone/setting, you'll know. And it won't matter what others say.
 

Bruja_aquamarine

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Messages
1
Long time lurker, first time poster. I actually am upset when I see things like this on here because I thought that I saw people being honestly helpful. I think when people post and ask questions, they should remember this is text and tone can be misconstrued all the time so take it easy. The truth is, people on this forum want others to make the BEST informed decision and use the money wisely. If you came just to have people say how gorgeous your stone is, then buy it and set is and watch how nice people are here. Sorry I just can’t stand when ppl make broad assumptions because they didn’t get the response they wanted and indeed got the “help” they were asking for. Sorry if I’m derailing. Love this space!
 
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