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Hunting for a sapphire

levinsonblade

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
2
Hi there!

As the title suggests, I am looking for a sapphire, and have been for a while now with little luck. I live in the UK and have struggled to find a decent source for loose stones, even in London.

The sapphire is for an engagement ring, and will be oval, roughly 5x7mm and darker rather than lighter in colour. In the few months I have been looking I haven't found a stone that meets the size, colour and price (sub £1000/$1300) criteria I have. I have also been warned off stones with any sort of treatment, but understand that this affects price greatly. What is the general opinion on heat treatment of a stone? I have been told that if it isn't done well then the colour can literally run out in hot water? I would rather have a smaller, slightly less glorious-looking stone that will stand the test of time than one that isn't the real deal.

I found this on NSC (I am aware from browsing this site that there are mixed opinions about them being dodgy and/or overpriced) and to my untrained eye it looks quite good, and it being untreated is a big draw for me.

https://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/0.98ct-ceylon-oval-blue-sapphire-b10350-/

What do you guys think? I think there is a blemish in the bottom right corner which may be reducing the price, but I don't think this would bother me as much as something like the windowing I have seen on other stones.

Thanks in advance for the help!
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
38,364
Most people are fine with heat treated sapphire as long as it is heat only, with no other minerals added. This treatment is permanent and stable. It will not fade, leach out colour, etc.

NSC isn't only dodgy but the CEO has been charged in court for forging documents to increase sales. The colour is quite grayish and the shallow depth gives it a window that is large enough to affect the sparkle, which is why the sapphire looks dead and dull. I would definitely pass on this.
 

levinsonblade

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
2
Most people are fine with heat treated sapphire as long as it is heat only, with no other minerals added. This treatment is permanent and stable. It will not fade, leach out colour, etc.

NSC isn't only dodgy but the CEO has been charged in court for forging documents to increase sales. The colour is quite grayish and the shallow depth gives it a window that is large enough to affect the sparkle, which is why the sapphire looks dead and dull. I would definitely pass on this.

Thanks chrono for such a quick reply! Hmm well that doesn't sound great about the CEO :/

Forgive my noobishness but I couldn't see any windowing from those pictures which is what made it appeal - is there a particular angle in one of the pictures where you notice a large window? I'm trying to train my eye to recognise these better as it seems increasingly likely I will have to resort to buying online rather than viewing in person.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
38,364
When I see that the total depth is 55%, that's a red flag that it's going to have a window, no matter how the vendor tries to disguise it in videos. A sapphire should be at least 65% depth. The pictures show a stone that is tilted, so I can't accurately show you the window but with time, you'll be able to spot it easily. Couple that with a low crown will cause it to just not be lively.

I've never dealt with this vendor, but some have good experience with him in the UK
http://www.topgem.co.uk/

This one is really dark but it still sparkles. This vendor will not ship stones > $1K outside the USA though. It's here as an example of better cutting, even with a darker colour, can look alive.
https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-11-1209
 
Last edited:

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
5,161
If you don't mind heat treatment only, I think Rogerio Graca of Pristine Gemstones is a reputable lapidary. He is apparently going to retire, so everything in his store is 20% off. His stuff is well priced, in my opinion.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/227332...-125-carats-for?ref=shop_home_active_44&pro=1
https://www.etsy.com/listing/553025241/kashmir-color-blue-sapphire-66-x-5-mm?ref=related-1&pro=1
https://www.etsy.com/listing/577494...-cluster-engagement?ref=listing-shop-header-0

Only downside of buying from that vendor is that there are no lab reports with the stones. Impossible to tell whether heat-only or unheated. If you care about lab reports, you should check out another vendor in Canada called Skyjems. They are the only vendor I can think of that supplies lab reports whose price falls within your budget. (The cost of a GIA lab report in itself is $100-$175 I think?)

https://skyjems.ca/collections/certified-gemstones?page=3

I have personally bought a 1-ct unheated and GIA certified vivid blue, VS clarity Burmese sapphire from Skyjems for $800. Some on these forums have suspected Skyjems uses special lighting to make their gems look better, but the gem I received was quite accurate to the photos they posted in color, and the GIA lab report was legitimate, too. I don't browse Skyjem's stuff regularly because I honestly have enough blue sapphires, and some of their inventory is windowed or overdark, but once in a while Skyjems has really good deals, in my humble opinion.
 

Anne111

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
381
Terrible window and no discount for it on the NSC gem. They are cheating those newbies who don't know how to detect a window.

If you are in Europe and buy from USA beware the tax-terror. Not so much the money, VAT must always be paid, but the process. Even in well organized Germany I had to spend a whole day in tax office to get my $50 value opal from abroad (non-EU), only to pay 15 euro in VAT. Total nightmare. never again.
 

Christinak

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 2, 2016
Messages
443
Hi @levinsonblade I am also in the UK .have you tried Wards in Hatton garden?
 

Anne111

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
381
Wards has a giant inventory but rather boring quality IMHO.
 

pristine

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
40
If you don't mind heat treatment only, I think Rogerio Graca of Pristine Gemstones is a reputable lapidary. He is apparently going to retire, so everything in his store is 20% off. His stuff is well priced, in my opinion.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/227332...-125-carats-for?ref=shop_home_active_44&pro=1
https://www.etsy.com/listing/553025241/kashmir-color-blue-sapphire-66-x-5-mm?ref=related-1&pro=1
https://www.etsy.com/listing/577494...-cluster-engagement?ref=listing-shop-header-0

Only downside of buying from that vendor is that there are no lab reports with the stones. Impossible to tell whether heat-only or unheated. If you care about lab reports, you should check out another vendor in Canada called Skyjems. They are the only vendor I can think of that supplies lab reports whose price falls within your budget. (The cost of a GIA lab report in itself is $100-$175 I think?)

https://skyjems.ca/collections/certified-gemstones?page=3

I have personally bought a 1-ct unheated and GIA certified vivid blue, VS clarity Burmese sapphire from Skyjems for $800. Some on these forums have suspected Skyjems uses special lighting to make their gems look better, but the gem I received was quite accurate to the photos they posted in color, and the GIA lab report was legitimate, too. I don't browse Skyjem's stuff regularly because I honestly have enough blue sapphires, and some of their inventory is windowed or overdark, but once in a while Skyjems has really good deals, in my humble opinion.

Hi Voce,

This is Andrea from Pristine Gemstones (aka Pristine Gemstone Jewelry), we do indeed offer lab reports prepared by a GIA trained gemologist and licensed appraiser who is an objective and independent 3rd party from us. The appraisals are complimentary on items valued over $1800USD, and for items below that amount, it is a $60 charge. I believe we provide that information in almost every listing. I know it is easily overlooked, especially in this day and age, we are all dealing with information overload.

Thank you!
Andrea
 

pristine

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
40
If you don't mind heat treatment only, I think Rogerio Graca of Pristine Gemstones is a reputable lapidary. He is apparently going to retire, so everything in his store is 20% off. His stuff is well priced, in my opinion.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/227332...-125-carats-for?ref=shop_home_active_44&pro=1
https://www.etsy.com/listing/553025241/kashmir-color-blue-sapphire-66-x-5-mm?ref=related-1&pro=1
https://www.etsy.com/listing/577494...-cluster-engagement?ref=listing-shop-header-0

Only downside of buying from that vendor is that there are no lab reports with the stones. Impossible to tell whether heat-only or unheated. If you care about lab reports, you should check out another vendor in Canada called Skyjems. They are the only vendor I can think of that supplies lab reports whose price falls within your budget. (The cost of a GIA lab report in itself is $100-$175 I think?)

https://skyjems.ca/collections/certified-gemstones?page=3

I have personally bought a 1-ct unheated and GIA certified vivid blue, VS clarity Burmese sapphire from Skyjems for $800. Some on these forums have suspected Skyjems uses special lighting to make their gems look better, but the gem I received was quite accurate to the photos they posted in color, and the GIA lab report was legitimate, too. I don't browse Skyjem's stuff regularly because I honestly have enough blue sapphires, and some of their inventory is windowed or overdark, but once in a while Skyjems has really good deals, in my humble opinion.

ps. And thank you for the mention.

~ Andrea
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
5,161
Hi Voce,

This is Andrea from Pristine Gemstones (aka Pristine Gemstone Jewelry), we do indeed offer lab reports prepared by a GIA trained gemologist and licensed appraiser who is an objective and independent 3rd party from us. The appraisals are complimentary on items valued over $1800USD, and for items below that amount, it is a $60 charge. I believe we provide that information in almost every listing. I know it is easily overlooked, especially in this day and age, we are all dealing with information overload.

Thank you!
Andrea
If I want to buy untreated sapphire, your GIA trained gemologist reports do not clarify the treatment in the stone. I've definitely taken a look at those reports you mention, but they're more like appraisals than like an AGL or GIA report. With other vendors, this information is clearly stated within the listing even if no report is provided, but there is no indication in yours to make me think you carry completely untreated sapphires.
 

pristine

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
40
Hi Voce.

So, before the internet, and in the trade, the standard was always that all treatments must be disclosed other than heat treatment, which is assumed unless otherwise noted. So, if you don't see mention of treatment, that is because there isn't any, other than heat treatment is assumed. If there isn't any heat treatment, it would be noted. Testing for heat treatment is often cost prohibitive in less expensive stones. That is the standard that the gemologist follows. If you would like to discuss her appraisals further with her, her website is www.ishy.ca Also, here is our blog on heat treatment: https://pristinegemstonejewelry.com...reated-sapphires-by-pristine-gemstone-jewelry

I hope this clarifies how we disclose treatments. We have some stones that have received more than heat treatment, which we disclose.
 

pristine

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
40
ps. We have noticed that not all vendors follow that standard, but that is the standard that Rogerio has always followed. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a standard anymore, so it is important that consumers do get clarification from vendors.
 

pristine

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
40
pps. The gemologist is required to disclose all treatments other than heat treatment in her appraisals. I should have made that more clear.
 

pristine

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
40
ppps. Sorry about this! Also, we are happy to answer anyone's questions with full disclosure, so don't be afraid to reach out!
 
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