Huge price range on 2 ct

[diamondseeker2006]

So i wen to a local dealer and they told me GIA is more strict, but you really have to see the rock in person, rather than buy a ceritificate. I.e. a H color by EGL does not mean it will be a higher color by GIA. He showed me a few where both EGL and GIA graded the diamond and both gave it same color.

He could get a 3ct VS2 H color, excellent cut for around $60k. Going down to a color I with everything else the same, drops it to around $50k. Both are GIA.

He had an EGL "hearts and diamonds" (not sure what this is? Does GIA have this too?) 3ct, VS2,H color for $37,500. Here are the specs:
Polish - excellent
Symmetry - very good
Flourecence - faint blue
56% table
60.7% depth
15.6% crown
42% pavillion
1.5-2.9% gridle
35 degree (top) and 41 degree (bottom)
This EGL looked pretty nice, but I'm worried because everyone here advises to stick with GIA, even though it costs $14-24k more for a similiar spec diamond. But "hearts and arrows" add any confidence? Help please. EGL can save some $.

Um, no, EGL certainly won't save you a penny. We have honestly tried to help you here, but you are ignoring the information we are giving you. And the reason you might want to listen is that we have NOTHING to gain by telling you the truth because we aren't selling you anything!

I have told you twice on this thread and others likely have two that there are TWO reliable grading labs in the US: GIA and AGS. EGL is not reliable. Their color and clarity is usually a couple of higher than it would be if graded by GIA. So you'd have to compare the price of a F VS2 EGL stone to a H or I color, SI1 GIA stone. The best stones are sent to GIA or AGS, because good stones with reliable reports are worth more. So there is no reason to buy an EGL stone that has an inflated grade. I wouldn't consider it for a second.

Hearts and arrows means something to those who desire very top precision cut. You'll find those in Good Old Gold Superior stones, WhiteFlash ACA, and Brian Gavin Signature. But as we have said before, AGS Ideal cut is just fine and so are the better GIA Excellent stones.

 

[mogster]

This EGL looked pretty nice, but I'm worried because everyone here advises to stick with GIA, even though it costs $14-24k more for a similiar spec diamond. But "hearts and arrows" add any confidence? Help please. EGL can save some $.

False.

Look at it this way -- if you're a seller who's trying to maximize his/her profits, why would you send a diamond to EGL when you can make $14-24k more by sending it to GIA?

It sounds like you're trying to look for a good deal, but buying an EGL stone is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[jyeh74]

OK I get it. Stick with GIA.

Here are additional feedback from a retailer

1) If you are going with a 3 ct, you are better with a 2.8-2.9 ct. Those are higher in demand, you cannot tell the difference, and they sell faster.
2) Don't do 2.5 ct. They are odd shaped and diamond cutters do not mazimize the size. You are better off with a 2 or a 3 ct.
3) He kept pushing S1 and told me some VS2 are worse than S1, it all depends on the rock.

These retailers always ask how much I am trying to stay under.

 

[jyeh74]

Here are some I found all starting under $40k.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.510-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-29921390
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.510-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-34247917
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.600-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-33248819

I have no idea what "gridle" is. These below are Thin-slightly thick to Medium-slightly thick. Is one better than the other?


I dont know why there is a $5-7k difference here. all three are 2.5 ct, VS2 and G color.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.500-g-vs2-round-diamond-gia-36747173
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.520-g-vs2-round-diamond-gia-30693245
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.500-g-vs2-round-diamond-gia-31786316

No, these are not stones that Brian Gavin has. I posted the links for you of Brian Gavin's in-house stones above in an earlier post. These are virtual stones that would have to be called in and I wouldn't use a jeweler in Houston to call in stones that are in NY.

Gypsy just posted two nice stones from Good Old Gold, which is a family owned jewelry store on Long Island if you are more comfortable buying online from an established jeweler rather than an internet-only company. (I have bought from both and have no qualms with either.)

I still dont understand whats the deal with virtual selection. Just because the stone is in NY and Brain Gavin is in Houston, as long as they can get it, verify it, then wouldn't it be good? I did notice that the virtual selection do cost less than any of the in-house stones.

 

[TitanCi]

Here are some I found all starting under $40k.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.510-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-29921390
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.510-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-34247917
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.600-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-33248819

I have no idea what "gridle" is. These below are Thin-slightly thick to Medium-slightly thick. Is one better than the other?


I dont know why there is a $5-7k difference here. all three are 2.5 ct, VS2 and G color.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.500-g-vs2-round-diamond-gia-36747173
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.520-g-vs2-round-diamond-gia-30693245
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.500-g-vs2-round-diamond-gia-31786316

No, these are not stones that Brian Gavin has. I posted the links for you of Brian Gavin's in-house stones above in an earlier post. These are virtual stones that would have to be called in and I wouldn't use a jeweler in Houston to call in stones that are in NY.

Gypsy just posted two nice stones from Good Old Gold, which is a family owned jewelry store on Long Island if you are more comfortable buying online from an established jeweler rather than an internet-only company. (I have bought from both and have no qualms with either.)

I still dont understand whats the deal with virtual selection. Just because the stone is in NY and Brain Gavin is in Houston, as long as they can get it, verify it, then wouldn't it be good? I did notice that the virtual selection do cost less than any of the in-house stones.

Virtual b/c he has access to those suppliers. If he can get them, verify them, image them for you, and they look good, you're golden. I think his sig. line are ones that he hand picked vs. these ones that he hasn't seen before. Just ask him to call them in for you...

 

[jyeh74]

Based on a quick selection, Brian Gavin seems a better value than Whiteflash or GoodoldGold.

 

[Gypsy]

OK I get it. Stick with GIA.

No stick to GIA Ex/Ex OR AGS0 stones.
For god's sakes your spending 40k and you don't know what a girdle is!!!


I really think you need some basics:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds Please read this and all of it's links through. Including this one: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-grading-report

Then follow up with reading these:

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-carat-weight
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-crown-and-pavilion
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope

SPEND AN HOUR STUDYING THESE TUTORIALS and then you will be better prepared to A) listen to us and B) buy the right stone.

 

[Gypsy]

OK I get it. Stick with GIA.

Here are additional feedback from a retailer

1) If you are going with a 3 ct, you are better with a 2.8-2.9 ct. Those are higher in demand, you cannot tell the difference, and they sell faster. You can't tell the difference that is true. And they are in higher command in terms of 2.7-2.8 but they are also incredibly hard to find
2) Don't do 2.5 ct. They are odd shaped and diamond cutters do not mazimize the size. You are better off with a 2 or a 3 ct. FALSE. The selection HE has access to may have a lot of poorly cut 2.5's but WE aren't limited to that and neither are our vendors
3) He kept pushing S1 and told me some VS2 are worse than S1, it all depends on the rock. Every stone is an individual there are some SI diamonds that are more eyeclean (twinning wisp inclusions) than some VS2 stones (crystals) but there is a reason VS2 costs more, they are usually cleaner inclusions and safer ones. That doesn't mean there are exceptions. But that's what they are.

These retailers always ask how much I am trying to stay under. Because they want to adjust the diamond price to your budget. They have a diamond. They would sell it for 32k to you or sell the same stone for 35k to you. If you tell them you have till 35k-- that's the price you are going to get. That's another reason why buying online is better, IMO, the prices are there, they don't adjust upward depending on your budget

Overall I'm not impressed with your retailer. He has no idea what good cut is if he tells you to look at the table only and that the rest of the measurements will 'fall into place' magically. He's given you a bunch of misinformation and opinions he's claiming are facts.

I'd stop talking to this guy and move on.

 

[Gypsy]

Here are some I found all starting under $40k.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.510-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-29921390
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.510-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-34247917
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.600-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-33248819

I have no idea what "gridle" is. These below are Thin-slightly thick to Medium-slightly thick. Is one better than the other?


I dont know why there is a $5-7k difference here. all three are 2.5 ct, VS2 and G color.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.500-g-vs2-round-diamond-gia-36747173
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.520-g-vs2-round-diamond-gia-30693245
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.500-g-vs2-round-diamond-gia-31786316

No, these are not stones that Brian Gavin has. I posted the links for you of Brian Gavin's in-house stones above in an earlier post. These are virtual stones that would have to be called in and I wouldn't use a jeweler in Houston to call in stones that are in NY.

Gypsy just posted two nice stones from Good Old Gold, which is a family owned jewelry store on Long Island if you are more comfortable buying online from an established jeweler rather than an internet-only company. (I have bought from both and have no qualms with either.)

I still dont understand whats the deal with virtual selection. Just because the stone is in NY and Brain Gavin is in Houston, as long as they can get it, verify it, then wouldn't it be good? I did notice that the virtual selection do cost less than any of the in-house stones.

Virtual b/c he has access to those suppliers. If he can get them, verify them, image them for you, and they look good, you're golden. I think his sig. line are ones that he hand picked vs. these ones that he hasn't seen before. Just ask him to call them in for you...

They will charge you a fee for getting the diamond in, shipping and fee for the time spent evaluating the diamond. The fee for the individual diamond goes toward your purchase if you buy that diamond, if you don't you still pay the fee. That's why we usually tell people to stick to in house stones. Calling in outside stones can get expensive if you do it too many times.

 

[jyeh74]

I know what girdle is.
I just did not know how they can have thin-slightly thick. That doesnt make sense. Is it think or is it thick?

I would think thicker is better.

 

[Gypsy]

I know what girdle is.
I just did not know how they can have thin-slightly thick. That doesnt make sense. Is it think or is it thick?

I would think thicker is better.

Nope. Thick can hold weight and effect spread. Very thick definitely does that, so thicker isn't better. The girdle is the diameter. It can be faceted so that it is thinner in some spots and thicker in others, which is why you get the range of thin to thick. Or it could be that one spot is just thicker and the rest is thin and it could be that the whole thing is thick with one thick part. Generally you just want to avoid very thin and very thick. That's about it.

You still need to do your homework. I really suggest reading those links I posted for you.

 

[jyeh74]

OK, I will go through and read those links.

In the meantime, they told me they can call on vendors for the virtual selection and give me the specs. I want to get everyone's thoughts about these

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2736705.htm (AGS0) $32k
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/certificate.aspx?idno=2736705&file_name=1 (the cert shows some blue and is not all red. maybe that is why it is priced at $32k?)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2767693.htm (GIA XXX) $35k
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/certificate.aspx?idno=2767693&file_name=1 (cert doesnt show red color)