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How to tell a diamond''s birthday?

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sna77

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Well... not "birthday" as in when it formed on earth, but when it was first cut and went into service so to speak.... I ask because my fiancé was looking at wedding bands the other day at a local B&M store, and the salesman (who LOVED her ring), commented that it was "a very old cut, and that it may have been recut to look like newer cut stones." I found that really interesting... The cert is AGS from October 2006, so I guess its entirely possible that the stone came back into circulation, a jeweler touched it up a bit (and shaved off some of the weight in the process) and then resubmitted it for a cert. The stone didn’t have the AGS # etched in it (I had this done when we bought it). Is this a common practice? Is there a way to tell the history of stone (like a CarFax or something LOL).


Thx!
 

RockDoc

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Date: 4/8/2007 10:04:18 AM
Author:sna77

Well... not ''birthday'' as in when it formed on earth, but when it was first cut and went into service so to speak.... I ask because my fiancé was looking at wedding bands the other day at a local B&M store, and the salesman (who LOVED her ring), commented that it was ''a very old cut, and that it may have been recut to look like newer cut stones.'' I found that really interesting... The cert is AGS from October 2006, so I guess its entirely possible that the stone came back into circulation, a jeweler touched it up a bit (and shaved off some of the weight in the process) and then resubmitted it for a cert. The stone didn’t have the AGS # etched in it (I had this done when we bought it). Is this a common practice? Is there a way to tell the history of stone (like a CarFax or something LOL).



Thx!
I sort of don''t understand this jeweler''s comment.

I am curious if the stone was recut to look like "newer" stones, how he could determine that it was recut from an old cut?

There are Old European cut stones, that had "open culets" where later the culet was "closed". If that is what the jeweler saw, his opinion could be correct. Did he mention "transistion cut"?

If the AGS report states it is a round brilliant, then may have not been cut.

In that the date of the report is recent, you could inquire of the person who sold it to you to contact the company who cut it to see if they have any history of it, that would comply with the KP process etc. There is a record somewhere but tracking that down MIGHT take a lot of time, with no positive results, but if this is important for you to know, ask and see what information the seller can turn up that may or may not be helpful to you.

Rockdoc
 

sna77

Brilliant_Rock
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Nov 2, 2006
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1,350
Date: 4/8/2007 12:24:32 PM
Author: RockDoc


I sort of don''t understand this jeweler''s comment.

I am curious if the stone was recut to look like ''newer'' stones, how he could determine that it was recut from an old cut?

There are Old European cut stones, that had ''open culets'' where later the culet was ''closed''. If that is what the jeweler saw, his opinion could be correct. Did he mention ''transistion cut''?

If the AGS report states it is a round brilliant, then may have not been cut.

In that the date of the report is recent, you could inquire of the person who sold it to you to contact the company who cut it to see if they have any history of it, that would comply with the KP process etc. There is a record somewhere but tracking that down MIGHT take a lot of time, with no positive results, but if this is important for you to know, ask and see what information the seller can turn up that may or may not be helpful to you.

Rockdoc
My fiancé can''t recall if he mentioned transistion cut or not... I''ve attached the 40x image of the stone... Not sure how you tell if its an open cutlet or closed..

We bought the stone from Whiteflash, but it was from their virtual inventory... The history of the stone might be interesting, but that sounds like a little too much work... I guess I was just more curious than anything else, how someone could eyeball the stone and know that...


Here''s th pic:

DI40X_AGS7785707.jpg
 

RockDoc

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You could certainly email Sir John, and Whiteflash could contact their supplier and ask for that info for you. If the diamond was from their expert selection, it is very possible that they had it cut, especially if it has an AGS report. Sure they could tell you.

From the photo you posted, this stone has a closed culet, that I would think was cut that way from the original rough material.

It is not currently a transition cut. It is a modern round brilliant cut. While it is POSSIBLE that it was recut from an Old Euro or transition cut, I do NOT see how the jeweler you went to made that determination.

Rockdoc
 

denverappraiser

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There is no scientific test for the date that the material was mined so the short answer to your question is no, you can’t tell. There’s not even a test for when it was cut beyond first hand information that originates from the miner saying “I mined it”. Modern cutters can and do cut Old Miners, Euros and whatever else from antiquity if the want, they just generally prefer to cut more modern designs because they tend to sell better.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

surfgirl

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This thread caught my attention because I have a transitional cut and am looking at another transitional cut for my ering. In my search, I''ve noticed that most of the larger old cut stones appear to be in the less desirable color range of J-M and beyond. It seems difficult to find stones of this type in the D-H color range though I see one or two here and there. Is it because as people have come into possession of heirloom stones, they''re being talked into re-cutting them to improve the quality of the stones? I''m just curious...
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Jul 21, 2004
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There are several issues at play here:


Color didn’t used to be as big a deal as it is now. In the Internet age, few people will buy a stone below a K without a great deal of anguish and a seriously discounted price but this has not always been the case.


The typical rough material from some of the more recent deposits, especially in Canada, is considerably whiter than what was readily available from some of the mines in Africa that drove the industry for many decades.


The economics of recutting an M color aren’t nearly as good as for recutting an E. The labor cost will be about the same but the improvement in saleability of the finished stone isn’t nearly as good. As a result, most of the big, clean, white stones that were good prospects for cutting have been cut in the last few decades while many of the lower colors that don’t have the big paycheck at the end are still waiting.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/8/2007 1:08:32 PM
Author: denverappraiser



There is no scientific test for the date that the material was mined so the short answer to your question is no, you can’t tell. There’s not even a test for when it was cut beyond first hand information that originates from the miner saying “I mined it”. Modern cutters can and do cut Old Miners, Euros and whatever else from antiquity if the want, they just generally prefer to cut more modern designs because they tend to sell better. http://www.gemlab.us/
Right. ACA and many ES diamonds we carry are cut on the same factory floor - but the process of mining, certifying origin, trading and sorting prior to manufacture is very complex. Sna - since we sourced this diamond from an outside supplier for you it's even harder to know. If the original rough is recent and was cut into this RB it could come from any number of places around the globe, so long as it conformed to currently expected provenance (ie; Kimberly Process, US Patriot & Clean Diamond Acts). If it was an older cut, re-cut into a RB, there might be some record of that (?) or not... Either way the traceability-trail can be pretty short. It's great that your jeweler was so complimentary of the diamond - I'd be interested in knowing why he believes it's a recut.
 

surfgirl

Ideal_Rock
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denver appraiser...That''s sort of what I thought but thanks for confirming.

BTW, the thread widget asked you to take a look at is regarding an transitional cut I''m considering for my ering. I''d love your thoughts on that if you get a moment to look at that thread. thanks!
 
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