How to shop for cut--need help!!!

[Bonbon26]

Hi everyone!

I have done a lot of reading on cut and clearly it is important, but I've gone engagement ring shopping twice and everything looks so dazzling, it's hard to be judgemental. I just lose my head! They all look so beautiful! What's an easy way to evaluate cut in a store and stay grounded without bring an ideal scope.

Should I only look at stones with GIA excellent or AGS ideal cuts? What about AGA and HCA?
How much will that limit my selection and is there a $$$ premium for stones with a cut grade?

If I look at cut measurements--what percentages do I need to ask about? I've heard so many variations, I'm confused!

I really need help developing a sure-fire way to ensure I am getting the most brilliant, sparky, fiery 1-1.3 carat diamond possible.

I heard that fire comes at expense of brilliance--is this REALLY true? How do I ensure I have a good balance of both?

I read that each organization has a certain distance they evaluate a diamond's cut from--like 10 or 16 inches. Too bad they don't have "across the room" cut grades--lol : )

Please help me develop a cheat sheet for buying the most dazzling diamond possible!!

 

[Rockdiamond]

BonBon- before your head explodes

If you are very interested in getting a "Super Ideal" cut, you need to do some more looking probably.
There are very few sellers that appreciate the subtle differences discussed here on a daily basis- so finding a good seller is how you can get all your questions answered in a meaningful ( to you) manner.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The very easiest way is to just go on the websites of Good Old Gold, WhiteFlash, or Brian Gavin and select one of their in-house Superior, ACA, or Signature stones!

But if you want some numbers that will keep you in a safe zone:

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle 34-35

pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0

girdle: thin, medium, or slightly thick

That's all you need to be off to a good start. After that, it is good to have idealscope or ASET images to have further evidence of cut quality. The above vendors have already pre-screened their top stones for you. And their second tier stones are excellent as well.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Hmmm. I don't think you need a seller specializing in ideal cuts to learn, I have never been a consumer who particularly likes to rely on people who are selling me things for the answers I like to educate myself and then I can have an informed conversation with a vendor, in particular, because I will know what questions to ask and I can tell when I am being "handled" or "sold".

Anyways, that issue aside, there are many tools you can use to help you pick a diamond.

In my opinion the most important tools are the lab cut grade and your eyes. So the easy answer to your question is choose diamonds with GIA Ex or AGS0 for cut grade. If you are looking at them in person, just take them into many different lighting environments and choose one that pleases your eyes. Look at them in regular office type lighting, under a table, natural diffuse daylight. Look at as many diamonds as you can, and train your eyes to all the different ways a diamond can look.

If you want to add one more tool to the mix you can prescreen the daimonds your jeweler might call in using the HCA. It isn't really necessary with the AGS stones but with GIA it might be. There is a slightly wider range of diamonds that make the GIA Ex grade, and some are not cut in a way I like, I find them darker. But your eyes trump the HCA so if you can see many in person that is better. And the HCA might narrow the field too much, excluding stones that would otherwise pass the eyes test with flyinf colors.

Finally, you can take an ideal scope with you, but in my experience, if the stone is a GIA Ex or AGS0 and scores under 2 on the HCA is will have a good ideal scope image, or good enough for me So its not essential IMO. But if you want truely perfect precision then an IS is great, it can really let you see the finer nuances of cut.

Or skip it all and buy a branded H&A

 

[Rockdiamond]

Interesting to have both sellers, and consumers posting as it gives a more broad perspective.
Without a doubt jewelers have earned a bad reputation, as a general rule.
A forum like this goes a VERY long way to equalizing a lot of the misinformation so common out there.


BUT- when we get to the finer points, it is my firm belief that a consumer will be best served finding a seller they are comfortable with.
I can tell you from many years experience, that consumers who sometimes feel they possess a strong diamond knowledge can oft times be more easily led astray.
A person calling may let us know they have to have a VS diamond because S11's are bad. Or questions about "cutlets"
Of course our position is to try and assist such a consumer, but there's just so many bad sellers out there, some of these consumers are bound to get ripped off.

If a consumer uses this forum to "vet" a seller- and the things they're being told, they may have less stress, and better results.

The cheat sheet will result in a well cut stone- but it might not be the same type of well cut stone you will pick if you find a great seller, and work with them.

 

[yssie]

Easy! Are you looking to buy new online?

1. Choose vendor.
2. Tell vendor your requirements - GIA/AGS only, colour range, clarity (stone clean from faceup, side? from 5", 12" at minimum?), size, branding, policies (buyback/trade/upgrade/etc.) ...
3. Wait to see what vendor comes back with. Post finds on PS. Get input. Make choice.
4. Have stone shipped out to you loose to look at and make sure it passes your various Across the Room Tests.
5. Ship back to vendor for setting.




Numbers don't make it onto my list unless you're looking to brave the virtual inventory or secondary market. The reason: unless you've looked at lots of stones and found out what trends your eyes like to see, you have no educated way of deciding what ranges to include or exclude, and you'll just hinder yourself and your vendor tying yourself down to lists of angle combinations. Unless of course your vendor happens to specialize in stones of those specific proportions, in which case you might as well ignore all the numeric mumbo jumbo and just start by asking for one of their branded stones! There are lots of really good tools on this site - HCA like Dreamer said, the AGA cut tool, light reflector technology - but none of them are do-or-die-by.


ETA: well, we all seem to be ending up in pretty much the same place

 

[Bonbon26]

I am open to buying online, but would rather do it in person.

I think I am going to only look at stones with highest graded cut quality. And from there rank by my eye/personal preference. And then from there, factor in price. Thanks for everyone's feedback!

I think what complicates things for me is that I want a three stone ring--all rounds--so should I pick all three together? Or should I pick my favorite center stone--and then try to match it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That is totally fine if you want to shop local. I actually tried that and found that no one even came close to carrying a wide selection of GIA excellent stones, and you could forget even asking about AGS. But I am going to tell you that it will be a little of a headache to find three well matched stones at a local jeweler. They will probably have to call in stones for you and you will have to be very specific about how well matched the three stones should be. Be prepared that they may try to sell you stones they have in stock that may not be as well cut as you are wanting. When I look for matched pairs, I generally go to the WhiteFlash site because they have their own stones cut to specific ideal cut parameters which makes it easy to match multiple stones. I agree with the things that Dreamer and Yssie said, but I am going to say that I think it is hard for a newcomer here to be able to master everything there is to know about cut in a few days in order to be telling a jeweler exactly what they want to see and what their parameters for a three stone match would be. The two side stones should be as close as possible but they can differ somewhat from the center stone. I'd personally choose the center stone first if I were buying in a situation where stones were probably going to have to be called in.

 

[Bonbon26]

Very helpful. Thanks!

I am in NYC so hopefully that will help in terms of selection.

I feel like the only way I am going to be able to do this, is to go to jewelers who have a larger selection in-house.

Are there any NYC area jewelers who have a wide range of GIA Ex and AGS0s in the .9 to 1.3 carat range?

I want to evaluate them blind to price, color, and clarity. And then see where my eye takes me.

Is this a crazy idea? Will jewelers get annoyed? Is it a sure fire way to get manipulated?

 

[Dreamer_D]

If you are in NYC then you can have the best of both worlds, you can go in person to Engagement Rings Direct or ID Jewelry, both PS vendors who know good cuts and also offer excellent value.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If you are in NYC then you can have the best of both worlds, you can go in person to Engagement Rings Direct or ID Jewelry, both PS vendors who know good cuts and also offer excellent value.

This is true, but you would have to make an appointment in advance, and tell them what you want so they could have stones called in for you to see when you come. I don't think either of these is going to have a wide selection of ideal cut stones of every size, color, and clarity on hand. Good Old Gold is over on Long Island and can do the same thing for you.

 

[yssie]

Diamonds by Lauren is also in NYC and recently made my ring, but as DS says I don't know that they'll have the selection of stones that you're looking for - their specialty is coloured and fancy shapes. A good bet might be a local Hearts on Fire dealer - you can call in and ask if they have some loose stones, and make an appt. They're all cut the same way so it's a good way to see how you feel about various sizes/colours/etc..

Definitely worth calling IDJ/DBL/Eternity/GOG to find out what they can and can't do for you though.