How to know the diffrence between conflict and not conflict diamonds

[samih]

Can someone tell me how to know the diffrence between conflict diamonds from not conflict diamonds? Samih Ossaily

 

[winyan]

Samih...

As far as I know, the only way to know for sure, is to either buy a Canadian diamond, (those are branded with special brands) or buy an old stone, like an Old Mine Cut, or Old European cut.

The latter might have caused problems at some period of history, but it would be about 100 years later now, and the people involved are probably long deceased.

win

 

[Rank Amateur]

The best way to avoid this quandry is to not buy a diamond, as your demand keeps the prices high.

 

[samih]

Is this what the US and DeBeers want? is this the reason of war for oil and false allegations of Conflicr Diamonds? is this all prepared as the WMD of Iraq? I am confused!!!!!!!!

 

[winyan]

Err...

Samih, I don't think this oil is a topic for the diamond board, though conflict diamonds are.

win

PS DeBeers is *not* a US company.

Also from a quick look at your site, it looks like you are well aware of ekati diamonds, therefore I think you are just trolling for an argument.

 

[pricescope]

Samih, please refrain from inflammatory posts.

If you are really interested in conflict diamonds you can check the following official links.

http://www.un.org/peace/africa/Diamond.html
http://web.amnesty.org/pages/ec_kimberley_process
http://www.amnestyusa.org/diamonds/
http://www.usaid.gov/regions/afr/conflictweb/conflict_diamonds.html

Some people speculate, however, that entire Conflict Diamonds issue has been exploited by DeBeers to increase control of the diamonds on the market.

 

[samih]

Win,
First, I did not say that De Beers is an American company.
What I'm trying to find out is to see how the world is shared. Oil for Bush and diamonds and minerals for Blair.

All I want to figure out is how will I recognize conflict Diamonds? If I turn time back a little bit than I find out that Savimbi of Angola's conflict Diamond was protected, used and exploited by the Beers! Charles Taylor of Liberia was brought to power by the American policy! The actual president of Liberia, Mozes Blah is a person that's on the UN travel ban list as the second biggest next to Charles Taylor! Mobutu of Congo's conflict Diamonds was appointed by the Americans and all where approved by the United Nations and Amnesty International! Sierra Leones conflict Diamonds, I will not argue much about it but right know there is the biggest concentration of UN troops (18.000) including (6000) British Royal Navy Marines. Why
Why do I have to look at links of Amnesty International when I know the roll they and the UN play in this game.

 

[Nicrez]

Samih, without getting into your obvious attempt to fight, I will answer your question. Many geologist and gemologist have been trying to get a fool proof way to check the origins of conflict diamonds.




DeBeers has introduced branding their stones, as ways of proving their diamonds are conflict-free. This is also misleading, as they have still been known to purchase stones in their Charterhouse facilities with unknown origins, and whose diamonds are not "tagged" from Mine to Market with a mine identification system, many new stones are being outfitted with.




Canadian stones are the most likely to be conflict free, but some guerillas have been known to disburse the conflict stones among packets of "innocent" diamonds, to confuse the buyer, and make them legitimate. Russian diamonds have been used, as well as many South African stones (mainly). Such places like Gambia and Liberia (whose diamond production in '96 was about 150,000 cts mined, but it shipped to Belgium 12.3M cts. (according to stats by M. Hart). That's a lot of diamonds from nowhere...




Onto the specifics of how some people test diamonds. One method was to test and chart the composition of impurities in a stone (as all diamonds have a certain infantessimal amount of other elements within their composition). Each stone is unique in it's ratios. Stones from the same mine would have similar ratios. But since Liberia would not likely allow for their stones to be tested fairly, this was thrown out as not plausible.




Another method was actually heating the stones (after their acid washes), as there is a residual layer of water and soil that remains even after the stones are acid washed in the rough. This is done to find the actual isotopic (molecular) formation of the water and soil composition of the stone. This can be compared to the soil compositions of the mines, as well as the water isotopic signatures which are unique to each region and each mine. So far these are the ways to tell, but when mixed with other stones, a contaminated sample can throw off results. Nothing is totally concrete so far.




I hope this answers your question!

 

[samih]

Win,
First, I did not say that De Beers is an American company.
What I'm trying to find out is to see how the world is shared. Oil for Bush and diamonds and minerals for Blair.

All I want to figure out is how will I recognize conflict Diamonds? If I turn time back a little bit than I find out that Savimbi of Angola's conflict Diamond was protected, used and exploited by the Beers! Charles Taylor of Liberia was brought to power by the American policy! The actual president of Liberia, Mozes Blah is a person that's on the UN travel ban list as the second biggest next to Charles Taylor! Mobutu of Congo's conflict Diamonds was appointed by the Americans and all where approved by the United Nations and Amnesty International! Sierra Leones conflict Diamonds, I will not argue much about it but right know there is the biggest concentration of UN troops (18.000) including (6000) British Royal Navy Marines. Why are they there, they love Sierra Leone so much?? Their only purpose of being there are the Diamonds and only the Diamonds.
So why do I have to look at links of Amnesty International when I know the roll they and the UN play in this game. They should act on present exploitations to avoid it, their only problem is that they only interfere when it's too late...!

 

[samih]

Why is this not a subject that belongs to this forum? I wonder... Is it too close to the truth? Do you think that Diamond business is all roses? Or does the truth have to stay hidden so you will not be confronted with it? Does it bug you that someone who was used in such a horrible way tells you how things really work?
Are you scared from it that you don't want to open your eyes to it?

I have some links too, take a look:
Conflict Diamonds - Blood Oil
Samih's Official Site ( Where you should really take a look at the articles and find out the contradictions for yourself!)

 

[pricescope]

samih wrote:

----------------
Why is this not a subject that belongs to this forum? I wonder... Is it too close to the truth? Do you think that Diamond business is all roses? Or does the truth have to stay hidden so you will not be confronted with it? Does it bug you that someone who was used in such a horrible way tells you how things really work?
Are you scared from it that you don't want to open your eyes to it?
----------------

Nonsense. This subject is perfectly fine for this forum. What does not belong to this forum is inflammatory tone of your posts. No one here deserved it and it is against forum policies.

Please conduct the dialog in a courteous manner.

 

[Nicrez]

Samih, if you ask a question here, it gets answered. If you want to start a fight, go to a bar. If you are trying to tell people that diamonds have had their links to bad and destructive forces, you have no one here disagreeing. But in the same token, things happen all over the world for food and for other necessities, but we do not abandon them.




The world is NOT perfect, but you have no right to come into a forum of where people voice thier ideas and opinions in a healthy and useful way in order to create chaos to try to further your cause.




If you are trying to convert people to believe what you do, go find a religion and adhere to that. Join a NGO (non-government agency) that you feel closest to in ideology, but DO NOT come into this forum to create a stir unsolicited, because that is not what this is about. There are foums all over the net dedicated to spreading your beliefs, but this is not one of them. Please do yourself a favor and those around you and stop your offensive discussion of something that obviously we all value here for what it is a mineral with precision mechanics and man-made value, but we all enjoy.




I don't know where you are coming from, but I do not dare attack things you enjoy, because I believe you have the right to believe whatever you want, you are just not welcomed to be warring here. Again, join an NSO and start there if you are truly interested. Don't post questions to pretend to be innocuous, when you are just trying to fight with people. Even if you had made a good point, your delivery of that point was done so improperly and offensively you lack trust and credibility in this forum so far. People will think as they chose, you can lead a horse to water, but they do not have to drink. Thanks for the information, but it's up to the reader to decide, not you to push!

 

[samih]

----------------
On 2/17/2004 9:39:16 AM Nicrez wrote:


Such places like Gambia and Liberia (whose diamond production in '96 was about 150,000 cts mined, but it shipped to Belgium 12.3M cts. (according to stats by M. Hart). That's a lot of diamonds from nowhere...
----------------

The figures you give from that time are correct but according to the Belgian law (uptill 2 years ago)it is not a crime to say that your diamonds are from another country than where they're actually from. For example, If I have diamonds coming from a conflict area, lets say Sierra Leone. When I arrive to the Belgian customs in the airport I can tell them that the diamonds are from Canada. They have no right to ask for my ticket to check where I really come from and they have to write down that the diamonds are coming from Canada although they are really coming from Sierra Leone! Since the kimberly proces some things changed but it is still going on like this.
So you see that your figures can be correct. Anyone could say that their diamonds come from Liberia but actually they are not.

 

[samih]

----------------
On 2/17/2004 9:39:16 AM Nicrez wrote:


Onto the specifics of how some people test diamonds.One method was to test and chart the composition of impurities in a stone (as all diamonds have a certain infantessimal amount of other elements within their composition).Each stone is unique in it's ratios.Stones from the same mine would have similar ratios.Another method was actually heating the stones (after their acid washes), as there is a residual layer of water and soil that remains even after the stones are acid washed in the rough.This is done to find the actual isotopic (molecular) formation of the water and soil composition of the stone.This can be compared to the soil compositions of the mines, as well as the water isotopic signatures which are unique to each region and each mine. So far these are the ways to tell, but when mixed with other stones, a contaminated sample can throw off results.Nothing is totally concrete so far.
----------------

Do you want to tell me that I have to be a scientist, a geologist, a pharmacist and a biologist to be able to recognize conflict Diamonds? I am just a simple rough Diamond buyer, and they don't teach you that in rough Diamond school! How am I supposed to know...?

 

[Nicrez]

Genius, I am trying to tell you that YOU a layman can not tell, just as a Geoloist and gemologist has difficulty. They have no standard way, but I gave you examples of test they use. You're welcome.




You can only tell if you are THAT skilled and have even seen a conflict diamond. I doubt you have so why worry about it? If you truly don't like the situation in Liberia, Sierra Leone, etc, go there. Volunteer with a non-governmental agency, like the Red Cross, and do your share of work there. You do not help one "conflicted" person in Afica by being difficult and defensive on an internet forum in Cyberspace. You want to help, get up, get on a plane, and go out there. If you don't, you can sit on your butt all day and ask people questions you don't need the answers to and watse everyone's time. Good call.




(Sorry Leonid

, I got incensed!

)

 

[Nicrez]

Here is a link to those of you concerned with Conflict Diamonds, and the process known as the Kimberley Process. It is basically a tagging process of rought stones from mine to market that safeguards the stones from coming from unsanctioned mines undetected.

http://www.kimberleyprocess.com/public.asp

The countries listed are the ones who cooperate with this process and any stone that is Kimberley Process complaint can be considered free of Conflict Stones from Liberia, Gambia or Sierra Leone.

 

[july_rain]

My fiance and I chose not to get a diamond. We feel a colorless rock is not the symbol we choose to represent our love and commitment. Instead of an inert, overpriced material object (that may even be mined by children or be a conflict diamond), we donated to charities. One of the charities offers startup money to women forming micro-businesses. 100 dollars will allow a woman to sustain herself by (for example) buying an oven and pizza material so she can start a pizza business. On average, these woman turn a profit after the 2nd month! Think how many families you''d be supporting!

How''s that shiny thing look now?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/16/2005 2:33:41 PM
Author: july_rain
My fiance and I chose not to get a diamond. We feel a colorless rock is not the symbol we choose to represent our love and commitment. Instead of an inert, overpriced material object (that may even be mined by children or be a conflict diamond), we donated to charities. One of the charities offers startup money to women forming micro-businesses. 100 dollars will allow a woman to sustain herself by (for example) buying an oven and pizza material so she can start a pizza business. On average, these woman turn a profit after the 2nd month! Think how many families you'd be supporting!

How's that shiny thing look now?

i never understand people worrying about buying conflict diamonds,if you ever stop to think about it we all be running around naked if we stop buying conflict clothes.our cars will stop running because we don't buy conflict gas. yeah.... i can see it now,some gas stations will post a sign saying "our gas is refine from non conflict oil"......get serious.

 

[innerkitten]

Oh no, not this post again.

 

[movie zombie]

buy an australian color fancy diamond......that should take care of it.

while i appreciate a social conscience, anyone that drives a car is already ''guilty'' by association with ''conflict''......

and, yes, i too am guilty....

peace, movie zombie

 

[psuheather]

Date: 3/16/2005 2:33:41 PM
Author: july_rain
My fiance and I chose not to get a diamond. We feel a colorless rock is not the symbol we choose to represent our love and commitment. Instead of an inert, overpriced material object (that may even be mined by children or be a conflict diamond), we donated to charities. One of the charities offers startup money to women forming micro-businesses. 100 dollars will allow a woman to sustain herself by (for example) buying an oven and pizza material so she can start a pizza business. On average, these woman turn a profit after the 2nd month! Think how many families you''d be supporting!

How''s that shiny thing look now?

Pretty darn sparkly!

(oh...and it is possible to own a diamond AND give money to numerous charities, as I do)

 

[perry]

Movie zombie is on the right track, but missed the mark a bit.

There is no way to ensure a natural diamond is not in some way a conflict diamond. Even the advanced testing that could tell you from where a diamond came from does not tell you for sure. Afterall, your''s may in fact be a non-conflict diamond processed legitimately from it''s original source...

There is one way to guarantee beyond any doubt....

Buy a simulated diamond. It is relatively easy to determine if a diamond is natural or man made. There is no doubt that a man made diamond is conflict free... (unless you count the fight you have with your S.O. over what diamond a conflict).

Might I point out that if this isssue is really a burning topic for you and you do not want to be involved - then please don''t buy any diamond at all. You can then present your moral stand to your freind. Some will respect you for your stand, others will not - the same as for any other issue.

Perry

 

[Petra]

With that in mind how can you buy and stone? Emerald, diamond or otherwise?

Most come from the 3rd world, minded under dire conditions.

 

[tanuki]

The non-conflict diamond angle could be a real selling point for Gemesis (the company manufacturing the yellow diamonds).

Gemesis finds it not economically feasible to produce a white diamond so the majority of their diamonds of the larger sizes are yellow.

They could market these as "non conflict yellow" and anyone could tell what they had just by the color of the stone.

It sounds like the diamond industry is doing what it can but unfortunately the system isn''t perfect.

I don''t think it is reasonable to expect that the entire world should stop selling ANY diamonds just because some people want to have a war in a few countries in Africa and have discovered that it is possible to raise money to support their efforts by selling diamonds. The jewelry business existed for centuries before they came along. Anything of value is a tempation to someone who wants to take it by force.

 

[valeria101]

The difference is simmple enough: you get the diamond and ask

If it becomes violent under interrogation it must be because or war stress. The non-conflict ones stay cool

Sorry... I just could not help it. Of course this is a serious matter. It''s the solution that''s hilareous.