How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spinels?

[RedSpinel]

I really like Spinels, which might be evident in my choice of screen name. I like their hardness, durability, brightness, generally good transparency, fantastic colors, etc. But I also like their semi-underdog status.

When I first began looking into them, I kept hearing how they were more rare than rubies(red ones), but since they are somewhat unknown by most of the general public, and arent as sought after, they are supposed to be MUCH, MUCH cheaper than nice quality sapphires and rubies. I've heard 1/10th the price for example.....

But then when I go online and look for them at different sellers' site's, I dont see this huge savings that I kept reading or hearing the "experts" speak of.

I'll use scholastic grades from here out to describe gems. I would see a 2ct pink Spinel for instance, with 'B' quality color, 'C' quality cutting, and 'C' clarity, but nonetheless it would be priced at $1,200! I'd see a 2ct pink Spinel with A color, B cutting, and B(SI) clarity for $2,500. This type of pricing is common for these grades of pink spinels. Whats more confusing is that supposedly pink spinels are far MORE common than good quality red spinels too! But a top grade 2ct red spinel with B cutting, C-B(SI) clarity will often sell for about the same price as a similar quality pink one! Usually reds will sell for more than pinks, but not always, and not by much more. Whats up with that?

The bottom line is, I kept reading over and over that I'd be able to get a really nice pink or blue spinel for a really good price, but that almost never seems to be true........ So if Spinels are 1/10 the value of a nice ruby, then a 2ct ruby with A color, B cutting, and B or C clarity should cost $25,000!!! They dont, unless you get ripped off by Tiffany's or someone else for a 'B' quality stone.......

So are spinels just being market up way higher than they should be? Whats justifying it if there isnt a huge market for Spinels, considering 98% of the public have never even heard of them? They arent sold in 98% of jewelery stores either...

Last question: How much should a 2ct 'A' color, 'B' cutting, 'B' clarity(VS2 - SI1) pink spinel go for on average?

 

[Pandora II]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

Spinels used to be cheaper - then the Mahenges came on the market and prices went up, up, up. There may not be a big market for spinels amongst joe public (although I'm seeing them in B&M shops here now) but there are plenty of collectors and knowledgeable consumers out there for what is a very limited supply of these stones.

At the same time China is buying up whatever they can get their hands on - red is a lucky colour there so obviously red spinels are sought after.

I don't see prices dropping and the idea of good red spinels being cheap is no longer true. The finest quality of red spinel will still cost significantly less than the finest quality of ruby though.

The really great blue spinels (the Chromium ones that look like great sapphires - often from Luc Yen in Vietnam) are super rare and very pricey.

So, they are not over-priced they are just market priced.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

I find that there is a huge differential in price between like quality red and pink spinels. I agree with what Pandora said about blue and red spinels and what's driving their popularity. But pink not so much. Look around. It is my observation that one can still get good quality pink spinels for significantly less money than equal quality red (or blue) spinels.

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

It also depends what kind of pink you are looking for...the paler, softer tones are very inexpensive compared to blues or reds. It's the bright, hot pinks/mahenge spinels that are priced up there with some of the others.

 

[chrono]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

Alas, spinels are no longer considered the underdog. About 5 years ago, I noticed pricing creeping up on certain colours and it looks like all colours have gone up. I can actually find spinels now in B&M stores, although on a selective basis.

My opinion is that spinels still provide a better value than corundum provided a person looks at them equally, meaning having absolutely zero treatment. To follow your example using a nice ruby, if it is untreated like the spinel, then yes, a 2 ct ruby with top colour, good cut and almost eye clean clarity IS at least $25K and upwards.

While spinels are plentiful, fine spinels are not easy to source. Vendors also charge whatever they feel is necessary to cover their general business cost, so it is hard to say X or Y price is reasonable. Demand and marketing also plays a role in pricing.

Pinks used to be a lot less than reds, but I observed pricing catching up yet remains slightly less if all else is equal. A hot pink will still sell for more than a brownish red spinel. With the discovery of the intense hot pink Mahenge spinels, pricing of pinks took a huge jump. In that case, it did not matter that it isn't red because the saturation was unheard of for spinels.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

It also depends what kind of pink you are looking for...the paler, softer tones are very inexpensive compared to blues or reds. It's the bright, hot pinks/mahenge spinels that are priced up there with some of the others.

Very true. I was thinking about the paler pinks when I said they were less expensive. The vivid pinks and magentas have clearly gone through the roof.

 

[slksapphire]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

i was speaking with richard hughes about fine rubies, and he says fine, gem-quality color costs $15,000-$20,000 per carat ... don't know about cutting and clarity associated with that color. but still.

 

[colorluvr]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

From my limited experience (mostly looking online and working with Jaimeen at PrimaGems) the saturated bright pink mahenges that aren't overly included are going up in price, but are still around if you look and are willing to pay the price.

The red mahenges are really hard to find now and if you do find one that is nice, you definitely pay a premium AND unless it is horribly overpriced, it won't stick around long, especially if it is a good sized stone.

Jaimeen just got back from Arusha and I don't believe he came back with any red mahenges, or if he did, they were already spoken for. I was lucky to get mine when I did and that was only because he contacted me about it (I'd been inquiring after seeing Alj's beautiful stone) as soon as he got it.

I paid more for that stone than I have ever paid for an unset colored gemstone, but to me it was a once in a lifetime opportunity and I just couldn't resist! Not only is the color top notch for a Mahenge red, it was also very well cut, which as you know is not always the case with these stones.

 

[Lee Little]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

i was speaking with richard hughes about fine rubies, and he says fine, gem-quality color costs $15,000-$20,000 per carat ... don't know about cutting and clarity associated with that color. but still.

Dick is very knowledgeable and is correct on that price generalization. I just wanted to throw in that he was likely talking about one or two carat stones. Smaller than one carat will be significantly less, even if it is .99 carat. Larger, say 3 carat or even 5 carat in that grade are going to be much higher. I saw a 5 carat for one million baht per carat ($33,333.00)
I never see Red Spinel even flirt with those prices. Best regards, Lee

 

[RedSpinel]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

Spinels used to be cheaper - then the Mahenges came on the market and prices went up, up, up. There may not be a big market for spinels amongst joe public (although I'm seeing them in B&M shops here now) but there are plenty of collectors and knowledgeable consumers out there for what is a very limited supply of these stones.

At the same time China is buying up whatever they can get their hands on - red is a lucky colour there so obviously red spinels are sought after.

I don't see prices dropping and the idea of good red spinels being cheap is no longer true. The finest quality of red spinel will still cost significantly less than the finest quality of ruby though.

The really great blue spinels (the Chromium ones that look like great sapphires - often from Luc Yen in Vietnam) are super rare and very pricey.

So, they are not over-priced they are just market priced.

I remember seeing these beautiful pink Spinels from Cambodia about 8-10 years ago. They werent too light or dark, and had a nice tone of what I guess you'd call hot pink. They were being sold at around $200 per carat for really nice stones in the 1.5 - 3ct range.They were mostly eye clean and bright. Dont know if they are around anymore......

***PS....What does everyone think of this statement from the "Safe Jewelery" website: "Spinel can compete with the brilliance of all these gems but a professional will not mistake the deep color of an authentic good-grade sapphire for the weaker colors of a spinel, so if you are purchasing an expensive sapphire or ruby, test it with an appraiser to see if it is not spinel."

I dont know if it can be said that the best spinels are "weaker colored" than the best rubies and sapphires. I've seen some really beautiful cobalt blue spinels that pretty much rival the top sapphires, but they arent common. On average I guess one could say that the best blue sapphires will often look better than most blue spinels, but not all. I've seen pink spinels that look better and brighter than the best pink sapphires, and I've seen red spinels that are brighter, flashier, cleaner than the best rubies, or at least very close to the best rubies.

 

[chrono]

Re: How to find out the accurate, honest value for nice Spin

I dont know if it can be said that the best spinels are "weaker colored" than the best rubies and sapphires. I've seen some really beautiful cobalt blue spinels that pretty much rival the top sapphires, but they arent common. On average I guess one could say that the best blue sapphires will often look better than most blue spinels, but not all. I've seen pink spinels that look better and brighter than the best pink sapphires, and I've seen red spinels that are brighter, flashier, cleaner than the best rubies, or at least very close to the best rubies.

I agree that in general, the best blue sapphires do look better than most blue spinels but not all. Moreso, if one compares untreated blue sapphires to blue spinels which are typically untreated anyway. The same goes for pink and red spinels. These comparable spinels are far and few in between though.