How much of a pay bump makes switching jobs *worth it*

[musey]

When you're looking around for a new job, how much (percentage wise) do you expect your salary to increase at the new company in order to make the move 'worth it?'

I know it's a loaded question with MANY variables, but I'd appreciate thoughts and musings on the subject

Hubs is in the running for a new position and we're both quite new at this 'game.' The position has no advertised salary, and he's expected to negotiate. He knows he could get at least 20% more at the new job, which is great, but because of some overdue raises he may actually be approaching that level by the end of this year at his current job (in theory). A position like his is technically worth (according to the research he's done) between 20-50% more than his current salary - so a 20% bump would just be bringing him into the acceptable range, really.

My non-office-experienced self wants to tell him to ask for more than the 20% bump, but he's worried they'll see it as demanding and nix his application. To be fair, though, he was sought out by the company to apply... so it's not like he's just some random applicant coming in with unreasonable demands.

 

[Hera]

Sometimes in the negative percentage because I would rather work in a place where I''m happy or where I''ll be able to grow with the company.

What''s the growth potential at both jobs? Are there any other perks to the new job? If it''s the same, I''m inclined to stay with a company that I already work with rather than try to go to a new one where there are many unknowns like if he''ll like the boss/coworkers/environment.

 

[musey]

Date: 6/3/2009 8:47:46 PM
Author: heraanderson
What's the growth potential at both jobs? Are there any other perks to the new job?

Not sure yet, but those will be some of his first questions at his in-person interview.

If it's the same, I'm inclined to stay with a company that I already work with rather than try to go to a new one where there are many unknowns like if he'll like the boss/coworkers/environment.

That's been his instinct thus far, and the reason he hasn't been actively seeking out a new job. He loves his work environment except for one big issue: he is massively underpaid. He's been promoted several times with not a single raise, and his starting salary barely enters the "are you kidding me?" range. It makes him feel taken advantage of... and rightfully so, in my opinion.

So this would be a welcome move. Jobs at this new company are pretty highly coveted by people in his field, and though we don't know the specifics of the benefits/perks available, the company's general reputation would seem to indicate a better environment than the one he's currently in. That's just speculation, though

 

[brooklyngirl]

I''m not sure what type of pay bump would make switching jobs worth it, but I think your DH should ask for fair market value. So, for instance if market value is 20 - 50% higher than his current salary, he should ask for 35%. This way there is a fair basis for the request.

If they reject his application because of that, then there is no point in switching jobs, unless the work environment at the old job is bad, and the new job promises a better work environment, and other perks. From what you''ve said, it doesn''t sound like that''s the case.

Also, if he really likes his job, save for the salary, he should definitely go to his supervisor if he gets an offer that he''s happy with, and his current company might match it. I''ve seen this happen with several people I know.

 

[sparklyheart]

Like you said, there are many variables! I left my last job for a slightly lower paying job with better hours and better growth potential. Even if he is underpaid, there are other things to look at.. Is the new company bigger/better? I''ve seen it go both ways where people go for higher paying jobs and it works out or they go for higher paying jobs and then get cut because they are so expensive to keep, or they get the higher paying job and are miserable because it''s not a good match. Especially with the economy is the way it is, I would just make sure he does his research and asks a LOT of questions about where the company and his position are headed.

I agree with brooklyngirl that he should ask for about 35% more than he makes now so he is not shooting too high or too low. If they agree to that he can also talk about better/different benefits to see if they are willing to budge on those too.. There are so many things to negotiate so he might as well take it from every angle!

Best of luck to him, whatever he chooses

 

[musey]

Date: 6/3/2009 9:10:08 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
I''m not sure what type of pay bump would make switching jobs worth it, but I think your DH should ask for fair market value. So, for instance if market value is 20 - 50% higher than his current salary, he should ask for 35%. This way there is a fair basis for the request.

If they reject his application because of that, then there is no point in switching jobs, unless the work environment at the old job is bad, and the new job promises a better work environment, and other perks. From what you''ve said, it doesn''t sound like that''s the case.

That makes total sense, I''ll tell him what you said.

Also, if he really likes his job, save for the salary, he should definitely go to his supervisor if he gets an offer that he''s happy with, and his current company might match it. I''ve seen this happen with several people I know.

That was his first thought, but he has some privileged information indicating that they wouldn''t be able to afford that bump... at least not right now. Possibly at the end of the year, but even then it''s just a "hopefully" situation.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

There seem to be a lot of varibles.

I don''t know what your husband does...but depending on how highly sought after this position is, he may want to reach for the for the lowest increase possible to keep competitive with the people who would be willing to work for less (in theory companies want the best trained employee who has the lowest salary demands). Once he gets a foot in the door, that''s a different story.

In the position I held before my current job I made about 25% (give or take a few) of what I''m making now. It was a growing process.

 

[musey]

Date: 6/3/2009 10:06:35 PM
Author: sparklyheart
Even if he is underpaid, there are other things to look at.. Is the new company bigger/better? I''ve seen it go both ways where people go for higher paying jobs and it works out or they go for higher paying jobs and then get cut because they are so expensive to keep, or they get the higher paying job and are miserable because it''s not a good match. Especially with the economy is the way it is, I would just make sure he does his research and asks a LOT of questions about where the company and his position are headed.

Yeah, this company is HUGE and extremely established. It''s not hurting from the economy, and the job he''s being considered for isn''t going anywhere. Other than his loss of seniority (which isn''t that big of a deal since he''s only been at his current company for 2 years), this position would be much more secure than his current one (at a much smaller, more unstable company).

I agree with brooklyngirl that he should ask for about 35% more than he makes now so he is not shooting too high or too low. If they agree to that he can also talk about better/different benefits to see if they are willing to budge on those too.. There are so many things to negotiate so he might as well take it from every angle!

Best of luck to him, whatever he chooses

I''m glad to see a ''second'' for the 35%, it''s making a lot of sense to me.

It''s hard to resist the urge to go even higher

partly because we know this company is booming, and partly because the recruiter''s response to hubby''s estimated salary request range (which was 20-40% above his current salary) was "oh yeah, salary won''t be a problem AT ALL." It sounded like he was expecting him to quote a lot higher, which made both of us think, well shoot, maybe he should ask for more. BUT, the recruiter is not local, so perhaps doesn''t have a working knowledge of the division''s resources... but if he''s the recruiter, they would clue him in to that, right?

I''m starting to feel like the percentages are becoming confusing/meaningless compared to real numbers

lol!


Thank you all very much for weighing in! This stuff is all fascinating to me, since I just don''t have experience with an office working environment.

 

[musey]

Date: 6/3/2009 10:17:17 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
There seem to be a lot of varibles.

I don't know what your husband does...but depending on how highly sought after this position is, he may want to reach for the for the lowest increase possible to keep competitive with the people who would be willing to work for less (in theory companies want the best trained employee who has the lowest salary demands). Once he gets a foot in the door, that's a different story.

That's precisely what makes him nervous about this - he doesn't want to lose this position to someone with lower demands (though I admit it's hard to imagine any of the other applicants having lower salary expectations, since they all should be making at least 20% more than my husband if not more). He's a web developer, for whatever that's worth.

I think the reason I resist him lowballing it is heavily influenced by his current job's treatment of him. They've been completely unwilling to raise his salary even through multiple promotions (in title, skillset and workload, but not salary). So I'm afraid that if he asks for the minimum of his position's range of 'worth,' he'll be stuck there again for who knows how many years... when in reality he should have been making at least that much from the beginning, plus a few raises along the way.

I know that that's largely irrational, since his current company's treatment of its employees won't necessarily reflect other companies' policies... but that's my worry.

 

[iheartscience]

I think he should ask for as high as seem reasonable based on his current background and expertise. My philosophy in negotiation is that all the company can do is say no, so it doesn''t hurt to ask for something.

If your husband asks for 35% higher than his current salary, and the company only wants to offer him 20% higher, he hasn''t lost anything by asking. I don''t think a company is really going to stop considering a candidate just for asking for a higher salary than what they''re willing to offer. On the other hand, if he only asks for 20% higher than his current salary, and the company was willing to go higher, he''s losing out completely.

(Also, I''m sure he knows this, but he should try to get the company to say a number first, so then he knows where to go from there.)

If a raise at his current job is unlikely, I think he should take the new job. I actually did the same thing recently. Although I miss my old job, I feel like I have access to a LOT more opportunities now.

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 6/3/2009 10:40:07 PM
Author: thing2of2
I think he should ask for as high as seem reasonable based on his current background and expertise. My philosophy in negotiation is that all the company can do is say no, so it doesn't hurt to ask for something.

If your husband asks for 35% higher than his current salary, and the company only wants to offer him 20% higher, he hasn't lost anything by asking. I don't think a company is really going to stop considering a candidate just for asking for a higher salary than what they're willing to offer. On the other hand, if he only asks for 20% higher than his current salary, and the company was willing to go higher, he's losing out completely.

(Also, I'm sure he knows this, but he should try to get the company to say a number first, so then he knows where to go from there.)

If a raise at his current job is unlikely, I think he should take the new job. I actually did the same thing recently. Although I miss my old job, I feel like I have access to a LOT more opportunities now.

(Nodding in agreement with thing2) Had one guy I know go through a transfer. He was in loss prevention and the company wanted him to go to a bigger store. They asked how much of a pay raise it would take to get him to move and he quoted them a number about 1/3 higher than his current salary. They jumped at it so fast!!!! He probably could have got at least a 50% raise, but was locked in because he undervalued himself.

As long as your hubby throws out a number based in reality, the company will negotiate. If people in his position, experience level and geographic area are making 20-50% more, I'd shoot for the higher end, maybe 40-45%. Even if he throws out a figure 35% higher than what he's now making, the company very well could counter with something slightly lower, thinking they will save a little in negotiation.

EDT: Is the recruiter someone within the new company or an outside "headhunter"? That could also make a difference in how much they know.

 

[D&T]

it depends, if it was a lateral move I would be fine as long as there is growth potential financially as well as increasing my skill set. But when it comes asking what it would take dollar wise I usually try to avoid bringing up a set figure and ask them really what I''m worth to them, and the last couple of places they would throw out a number and I negotiated back, but with one company, they really wanted me to tell them a figure, so I really put it up way up there, since I knew there was no one else better than me

and well got the job,, but it took two days to negotiate a few extra meeting to seal the deal...

 

[whitby_2773]

hey musey

here''s one thing to keep in mind...

even companies which seek you out are trying in this economy (and in any economy, if they''re a frugal company trying to maximize profit) to save as much money on expenses as possible. no matter how much they might want an employee, if their second choice is almost as good, but 10, 20, 50k cheaper, a lot of companies will take option B.

so if they ask him what his CURRENT salary is, you can bet they''re going to offer him something better, but that it will be in some relation to what he currently earns. when i was first starting out i used to work in employment, and employers often ruled out a potential employee because their asking price had little relevance to what the new company wanted to offer. it was virtually never a case of ''oh - he wants 80k, we''re offering 50k - let''s offer it to him anyway". it was more a case of "this person is looking for a different level of income to what this company is offering." also, if a new company knows your current salary, there are very few circumstances where they''ll up your salary by, say, 50% unless you''ve completed some sort of extra education or have some form of unique experience not currently being utilized by your current employer.

anyway, to answer your question, i''d say conditions count for a lot, but all things otherwise being equal, i''d consider a move for 10%+. that would normally equate to around 3 years of pay increases, and that''s a lot.

 

[janinegirly]

i''ve always considered minimum increase would be 20% to move firms. This is how much it would take to make me leave my current job and start all over again at a new place. Minimum.

I have no real reasoning except that is a number that typically is something significant, but on the lower end. The market is really irrelevant in this case b/c he is being sought after and he currently has a job, so there must be an incentive to move.

 

[musey]

Date: 6/3/2009 10:40:07 PM
Author: thing2of2
I think he should ask for as high as seem reasonable based on his current background and expertise. My philosophy in negotiation is that all the company can do is say no, so it doesn''t hurt to ask for something.

If your husband asks for 35% higher than his current salary, and the company only wants to offer him 20% higher, he hasn''t lost anything by asking. I don''t think a company is really going to stop considering a candidate just for asking for a higher salary than what they''re willing to offer. On the other hand, if he only asks for 20% higher than his current salary, and the company was willing to go higher, he''s losing out completely.

That''s how I feel, too, but he''s afraid that they''ll just let him throw out a number and then nix him if it''s too high, rather than negotiating down (sorta what whitby is talking about below).

(Also, I''m sure he knows this, but he should try to get the company to say a number first, so then he knows where to go from there.)

I''m really hoping they will... he seems to think they won''t. Which is weird to me, because there should be some kind of starting point and it doesn''t seem like it should come from the potential employee... though I think that part of the issue here is that this company has money to burn, especially on the division he''s interviewing to be a part of, so almost anything would be ''reasonable'' depending on how much they want the candidate.

If a raise at his current job is unlikely, I think he should take the new job. I actually did the same thing recently. Although I miss my old job, I feel like I have access to a LOT more opportunities now.

I think so too. I think he would switch for as little as 15% - it would take a at least a little something for him to give up the work environment he loves at his current job. Though work environment is only worth so much, and suffers in the long run, when employees are so massively underpaid

 

[musey]

Date: 6/3/2009 11:39:59 PM
Author: jet2ks
(Nodding in agreement with thing2) Had one guy I know go through a transfer. He was in loss prevention and the company wanted him to go to a bigger store. They asked how much of a pay raise it would take to get him to move and he quoted them a number about 1/3 higher than his current salary. They jumped at it so fast!!!! He probably could have got at least a 50% raise, but was locked in because he undervalued himself.

This is what I''m so afraid of!! Especially because we''re somewhat aware of the company''s (very good) financial situation, I feel like it would be really easy for him to sell himself short

As long as your hubby throws out a number based in reality, the company will negotiate. If people in his position, experience level and geographic area are making 20-50% more, I''d shoot for the higher end, maybe 40-45%. Even if he throws out a figure 35% higher than what he''s now making, the company very well could counter with something slightly lower, thinking they will save a little in negotiation.

That''s very very good to know. We''ve both been worried that throwing out any number, even one based in reality, could potentially just get him nixed... but as long as it''s within the normal range for that type of position, they won''t see it as too unreasonable to negotiate?

EDT: Is the recruiter someone within the new company or an outside ''headhunter''? That could also make a difference in how much they know.

He''s an outside headhunter, or at least from a different office within the company. He doesn''t work in the LA office for sure.

 

[musey]

Date: 6/4/2009 1:05:14 AM
Author: D&T
it depends, if it was a lateral move I would be fine as long as there is growth potential financially as well as increasing my skill set. But when it comes asking what it would take dollar wise I usually try to avoid bringing up a set figure and ask them really what I''m worth to them, and the last couple of places they would throw out a number and I negotiated back, but with one company, they really wanted me to tell them a figure, so I really put it up way up there, since I knew there was no one else better than me

and well got the job,, but it took two days to negotiate a few extra meeting to seal the deal...

That''s a good way of putting it, D&T. Thanks!

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 6/4/2009 1:17:45 PM
Author: musey
I think so too. I think he would switch for as little as 15% - it would take a at least a little something for him to give up the work environment he loves at his current job. Though work environment is only worth so much, and suffers in the long run, when employees are so massively underpaid

When I took my organizational behavior class one of the things we learned was Herzberg''s Hygiene-Motivation theory. The basic concept is that there are things that make employees dislike their job (hygiene) and things that make them like their job (motivators).

Suprisingly enough, salary is a hygiene factor not a motivator. If you don''t have the right salary, you may dislike your job. But if you get a bump in your salary, that doesn''t necessarily mean you''ll like your job more. Factors such as growth potential, achievement, recognition are motivators. You may have a salary you don''t like but these other factors will make you love your job.

The reason why I mention this is that considering your question, while I would love more money (

) I always seek out jobs that offer me the potential to grow and where I know my work will be recognized. There isn''t a bump threshold that would get me to switch jobs. For a long time I was "underpaid." When I was first promoted to Sr. I was making $50K when everyone around me was coming in at $70K. But I didn''t hate my job because I was constantly recognized and that''s why I stayed. When they finally did bump my salary so that I was on par with everyone else, it didn''t change my perception of the job...it did get me a new car though

As for what to ask, definitely look at the entering salaries for that position and ask within that range (I would even say 10% above the range so that they can work with him from that starting number).

 

[musey]

Date: 6/4/2009 11:54:38 AM
Author: whitby_2773
hey musey

here's one thing to keep in mind...

even companies which seek you out are trying in this economy (and in any economy, if they're a frugal company trying to maximize profit) to save as much money on expenses as possible. no matter how much they might want an employee, if their second choice is almost as good, but 10, 20, 50k cheaper, a lot of companies will take option B.

That is precisely what makes him nervous about this negotiation.

so if they ask him what his CURRENT salary is, you can bet they're going to offer him something better, but that it will be in some relation to what he currently earns.

also, if a new company knows your current salary, there are very few circumstances where they'll up your salary by, say, 50% unless you've completed some sort of extra education or have some form of unique experience not currently being utilized by your current employer.

Yeah, that's what's frustrating here. He's been screwed out of earnings not only for his current job, but for future jobs, just because he started too low in the first place. What's nice (well, sort of) is that he's been promised raises 5+ times for promotions at his current job, which they've had to 'postpone' for one reason or another. He has the promotion history to back up the fact that he is worth a lot more than he is paid... but I don't know how much (if anything) that will mean in a new job situation. It obviously hasn't meant much in his current job situation

He does have his education going for him. Since starting at his current job he's learned three new programming languages and become the 'go-to guy' in all three (no one else in his current office is proficient with them, they'll be sca-rewed if/when he leaves),

anyway, to answer your question, i'd say conditions count for a lot, but all things otherwise being equal, i'd consider a move for 10%+. that would normally equate to around 3 years of pay increases, and that's a lot.

When you put it that way, it makes 10-20% sound a lot more enticing! He'd definitely be in a better financial position no matter what with this new job, I guess it's just a matter of trying to maximize his earning potential - or not, if it's the move itself that has the most value, rather than getting the most money possible out of the move.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, whitby!!

 

[musey]

Date: 6/4/2009 1:17:39 PM
Author: janinegirly
i''ve always considered minimum increase would be 20% to move firms. This is how much it would take to make me leave my current job and start all over again at a new place. Minimum.

I have no real reasoning except that is a number that typically is something significant, but on the lower end. The market is really irrelevant in this case b/c he is being sought after and he currently has a job, so there must be an incentive to move.

That''s a very good point, and the financial position of this new company (very very good) adds to the issue.

I think he''ll have a better idea of how much they ''want'' him after his first phone interview. The headhunter made it sound like they were desperate to have him in the beginning of their correspondence (after being told thanks but no thanks because he already has a job, he said "I think you''ll want to hear what I have to say, someone on the team must be very impressed by you because it''s rare that they request I seek out a specific person"), but then made a point of noting that "only one of 10 make it past the phone interview," as though he was trying to lower hubs'' expectations.

So it really could go either way, I suppose.

 

[musey]

Date: 6/4/2009 1:29:54 PM
Author: fiery

Date: 6/4/2009 1:17:45 PM
Author: musey
I think so too. I think he would switch for as little as 15% - it would take a at least a little something for him to give up the work environment he loves at his current job. Though work environment is only worth so much, and suffers in the long run, when employees are so massively underpaid

When I took my organizational behavior class one of the things we learned was Herzberg's Hygiene-Motivation theory. The basic concept is that there are things that make employees dislike their job (hygiene) and things that make them like their job (motivators).

Suprisingly enough, salary is a hygiene factor not a motivator. If you don't have the right salary, you may dislike your job. But if you get a bump in your salary, that doesn't necessarily mean you'll like your job more. Factors such as growth potential, achievement, recognition are motivators. You may have a salary you don't like but these other factors will make you love your job.

That makes total sense - those are exactly the things that make him like his current job (that in addition to work environment)!

The reason why I mention this is that considering your question, while I would love more money (

) I always seek out jobs that offer me the potential to grow and where I know my work will be recognized. There isn't a bump threshold that would get me to switch jobs. For a long time I was 'underpaid.' When I was first promoted to Sr. I was making $50K when everyone around me was coming in at $70K. But I didn't hate my job because I was constantly recognized and that's why I stayed. When they finally did bump my salary so that I was on par with everyone else, it didn't change my perception of the job...it did get me a new car though

As for what to ask, definitely look at the entering salaries for that position and ask within that range (I would even say 10% above the range so that they can work with him from that starting number).

Just in general, or for the specific company? The salary range for his current title is $80-120k (I love how NON-math proficient I am, because that means his position's worth 20-100% more, not 20-50% more, than his current salary), which is a really huge range... so he should maybe start with $130k?

His current plan is to ask for a little over the bottom of the range, so $90-95k. Would that be selling himself short (keeping in mind he's currently at $60k

)?

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 6/4/2009 1:44:48 PM
Author: musey



Just in general, or for the specific company? The salary range for his current title is $80-120k, which is a really huge range... so he should maybe start with $130k?

His current plan is to ask for a little over the bottom of the range, so $90-95k. Would that be selling himself short (keeping in mind he''s currently at $60k

)?

I think that''s a good plan considering how large of a range it is. When I search, I look in general for the field. Usually in finance the range isn''t that high. It''s usually a $10-$15k range. I, personally, would ask for $95k.

Does he know if those that are in the upper range are typically those with a lot of experience? He could always look at it from that standpoint. If say someone with 8 years of experience typically start with $120k and he only has 4 then coming a little under makes more sense.

 

[musey]

Date: 6/4/2009 1:50:42 PM
Author: fiery

Date: 6/4/2009 1:44:48 PM
Author: musey
Just in general, or for the specific company? The salary range for his current title is $80-120k, which is a really huge range... so he should maybe start with $130k?

His current plan is to ask for a little over the bottom of the range, so $90-95k. Would that be selling himself short (keeping in mind he's currently at $60k

)?

I think that's a good plan considering how large of a range it is. When I search, I look in general for the field. Usually in finance the range isn't that high. It's usually a $10-$15k range. I, personally, would ask for $95k.

Okay, it sounds like he's on the right track, then

Does he know if those that are in the upper range are typically those with a lot of experience? He could always look at it from that standpoint. If say someone with 8 years of experience typically start with $120k and he only has 4 then coming a little under makes more sense.

I think that's probably the case... he has 4 years of experience but 2 of those were in a work-study position in school, so really he has only 2 years of real-world experience. He's doing the work of someone with a lot more experience, though (typically people in his position have had at least 10 years of experience), so it's easy to forget that his resume puts him in a lower tier.

Thanks, fiery!

 

[omieluv]

Date: 6/4/2009 1:37:39 PM
Author: musey

Date: 6/4/2009 1:17:39 PM
Author: janinegirly
i''ve always considered minimum increase would be 20% to move firms. This is how much it would take to make me leave my current job and start all over again at a new place. Minimum.

I have no real reasoning except that is a number that typically is something significant, but on the lower end. The market is really irrelevant in this case b/c he is being sought after and he currently has a job, so there must be an incentive to move.

That''s a very good point, and the financial position of this new company (very very good) adds to the issue.

I think he''ll have a better idea of how much they ''want'' him after his first phone interview. The headhunter made it sound like they were desperate to have him in the beginning of their correspondence (after being told thanks but no thanks because he already has a job, he said ''I think you''ll want to hear what I have to say, someone on the team must be very impressed by you because it''s rare that they request I seek out a specific person''), but then made a point of noting that ''only one of 10 make it past the phone interview,'' as though he was trying to lower hubs'' expectations.

So it really could go either way, I suppose.

Take what the recruiter said with a grain of salt and if I were your DH, I would ask the recruiter who gave him his name. Often times, recruiters will use this tactic to entice a candidate who is resistant. Though not illegal, it is not ethical, IMHO.

Anyway, you asked about how much to expect your salary to increase at the new company to make it worth it. As you said, that depends on several factors. How long has your DH been at his current company (sorry if this was stated before)? Often times, the longer you stay at a company, the less you earn as opposed to going outside of the company. I have often sat in on conference calls with my boss stating that they want an internal candidate to fill the position because it would be cheaper in terms of salary than having to go outside for an external candidate. Of course, you probably suspected this, but I am here to confirm that this is very true from my experiences.

For me personally, I would research what I am worth and really have solid points for negotiation, if it came to that. Of course, I would take into consideration what benefits are offered at the new company and write a pro/con list out too. If possible, I would try to network with people who are currently working there in order to learn more about it. I would even ask him to request that he participates in a realistic job preview, where he would actually be able to shadow or do the job for a day so he could get a taste of it.

Fiery mentioned good points. Though I am not really a fan of Hertzberg, I have done much research on the construct of job satisfaction, and salary never is at the top for people. During my internship, I actually worked on a project dealing with this and found that the only time people were disatisfied with their salary is if they perceived others earning equal to or more for the same job if they were producing substandard work quality in realtion to the perceived quality/quantity they were in fact producing in relation to others in the same company (Equity Theory). So the real question is, will the salary he would potentially earn at the new company equate on some level to what others are earning there for similar work and output? Sure, he will more than likely get a raise for moving to the new company, but, will the raise be in a similar ballpark to what others earn in the new company? Normally, I would guess that there is a potential for your DH to come out ahead of them, but with the economy being as it is, he is potentially at a disadvantage and might earn less. I bring this point up only to imply that even if he gets a bump with the move, how is he going to feel if he learns that others at the new company are earning more for similar work?

 

[musey]

Date: 6/4/2009 2:14:14 PM
Author: omieluv

Date: 6/4/2009 1:37:39 PM
Author: musey
I think he'll have a better idea of how much they 'want' him after his first phone interview. The headhunter made it sound like they were desperate to have him in the beginning of their correspondence (after being told thanks but no thanks because he already has a job, he said 'I think you'll want to hear what I have to say, someone on the team must be very impressed by you because it's rare that they request I seek out a specific person'), but then made a point of noting that 'only one of 10 make it past the phone interview,' as though he was trying to lower hubs' expectations.

So it really could go either way, I suppose.

Take what the recruiter said with a grain of salt and if I were your DH, I would ask the recruiter who gave him his name. Often times, recruiters will use this tactic to entice a candidate who is resistant. Though not illegal, it is not ethical, IMHO.

EW! Oh how very disappointing.

It never occurred to me that the recruiter may have been lying about that, that seems almost scammy. He's doing the company a disservice, too, because it raises the expectations of the potential employee as far as their 'worth' to the company... if hubs took the recruiter at his word, he'd go in feeling like they were after him, not the other way around.

Anyway, you asked about how much to expect your salary to increase at the new company to make it worth it. As you said, that depends on several factors. How long has your DH been at his current company (sorry if this was stated before)? Often times, the longer you stay at a company, the less you earn as opposed to going outside of the company. I have often sat in on conference calls with my boss stating that they want an internal candidate to fill the position because it would be cheaper in terms of salary than having to go outside for an external candidate. Of course, you probably suspected this, but I am here to confirm that this is very true from my experiences.

While I was aware that this is generally true, we're also finding that out the hard way at his current job (he's been there 2 years, btw... I think in a past thread I said three, but I was remembering wrong). He was even told, in the midst of the most recent promotion, that they were happy he was able to take on the new position since they'd have to pay almost double his salary to pull in an external candidate

(umm, who SAYS that to an employee during a promotion??).

So yeah, it does seem as though in order to advance financially as well as in title, he'll have to jump from company to company. Which is so contrary to my conception of a "company man" growing up - that's what Nick at Night will do to a kid

For me personally, I would research what I am worth and really have solid points for negotiation, if it came to that. Of course, I would take into consideration what benefits are offered at the new company and write a pro/con list out too. If possible, I would try to network with people who are currently working there in order to learn more about it. I would even ask him to request that he participates in a realistic job preview, where he would actually be able to shadow or do the job for a day so he could get a taste of it.

I think he's been trying to find connections to the company's employees but hasn't so far. LA is such a big city, that finding connections is really hard, especially when you're relatively new in an industry.

I'll suggest the job preview thing to him. I haven't heard of that (maybe he has, I don't know), so thank you for bringing it up!

Fiery mentioned good points. Though I am not really a fan of Hertzberg, I have done much research on the construct of job satisfaction, and salary never is at the top for people. During my internship, I actually worked on a project dealing with this and found that the only time people were disatisfied with their salary is if they perceived others earning equal to or more for the same job if they were producing substandard work quality in realtion to the perceived quality/quantity they were in fact producing in relation to others in the same company (Equity Theory). So the real question is, will the salary he would potentially earn at the new company equate on some level to what others are earning there for similar work and output? Sure, he will more than likely get a raise for moving to the new company, but, will the raise be in a similar ballpark to what others earn in the new company? Normally, I would guess that there is a potential for your DH to come out ahead of them, but with the economy being as it is, he is potentially at a disadvantage and might earn less. I bring this point up only to imply that even if he gets a bump with the move, how is he going to feel if he learns that others at the new company are earning more for similar work?

That's all so interesting. I think that given his current salary and education level (economy aside), he's at a disadvantage as compared to the equal-ish employees already working there, from what little we know about them. There's a big, broad question mark over all of it though, since what we know is so very little.

 

[omieluv]

Date: 6/4/2009 2:40:56 PM
Author: musey

...

EW! Oh how very disappointing.

It never occurred to me that the recruiter may have been lying about that, that seems almost scammy. He''s doing the company a disservice, too, because it raises the expectations of the potential employee as far as their ''worth'' to the company... if hubs took the recruiter at his word, he''d go in feeling like they were after him, not the other way around.

...

While I was aware that this is generally true, we''re also finding that out the hard way at his current job (he''s been there 2 years, btw... I think in a past thread I said three, but I was remembering wrong). He was even told, in the midst of the most recent promotion, that they were happy he was able to take on the new position since they''d have to pay almost double his salary to pull in an external candidate

(umm, who SAYS that to an employee during a promotion??).

So yeah, it does seem as though in order to advance financially as well as in title, he''ll have to jump from company to company. Which is so contrary to my conception of a ''company man'' growing up - that''s what Nick at Night will do to a kid

I think he''s been trying to find connections to the company''s employees but hasn''t so far. LA is such a big city, that finding connections is really hard, especially when you''re relatively new in an industry.

I''ll suggest the job preview thing to him. I haven''t heard of that (maybe he has, I don''t know), so thank you for bringing it up!

That''s all so interesting. I think that given his current salary and education level (economy aside), he''s at a disadvantage as compared to the equal-ish employees already working there, from what little we know about them. There''s a big, broad question mark over all of it though, since what we know is so very little.

With the recruiter, it is possible that someone did pass your DH''s name along, but, also possible that the recruiter is just trying to get his attention. So, DH has been there 2 - 3 years and they still would have had to pay someone a good sum of money to take the promotion he did? Usually, people who have been working at a company for 5+ years tend to earn less than they are worth outside of their company, but 2-3 seems odd. However, the economy is odd, so who knows these days.

Being a "company man" was a good thing back in the 50''s - 60''s, when organziations were more loyal to its employees. Forget it now, as everyone is out for themselves. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as moving around can be beneficial to employees and can even boost careers.

Your hubby should get involved with LinkedIn or other professional networking sites, as they are a good way to connect with others. Also, I came across an interesting website a few years back called jobvent.com. Take what is said with a grain of salt, but it is still interesting to look into. I believe the vault.com is also pretty good too.

 

[ChargerGrrl]

Date: 6/4/2009 2:40:56 PM
Author: musey

I think he''s been trying to find connections to the company''s employees but hasn''t so far. LA is such a big city, that finding connections is really hard, especially when you''re relatively new in an industry.

Musey, you''ve gotten some good feedback here in regards to salary "asks" and what the market may dictate.

Just wanted to raise a point about finding connections and networking. Is your DH on linkedin? I found it to be a VALUABLE tool when job-searching last year. It''s amazing to see the connections that are available to you through your "network". And lots of recruiters use it to seek out candidates or to just network. I''m a huge fan of linkedin!

 

[musey]

Date: 6/4/2009 3:00:46 PM
Author: omieluv
With the recruiter, it is possible that someone did pass your DH's name along, but, also possible that the recruiter is just trying to get his attention. So, DH has been there 2 - 3 years and they still would have had to pay someone a good sum of money to take the promotion he did? Usually, people who have been working at a company for 5+ years tend to earn less than they are worth outside of their company, but 2-3 seems odd. However, the economy is odd, so who knows these days.

Yeah, though his company has only had economy-related issues for the past couple of months so they can't really blame his lack of raises on that. I think it's more a case of their general policy... they seem to like to grab 20-somethings right out of college, give them a meager salary (that'll seem great to a recent college grad), train them into the employee they need then hold on to them as long as they can without actually giving them financial incentive. Hubs is coming out of this job with a VASTLY improved resume because of all the training and education they've provided/paid for, so his earning potential has at least been increased there.

My MIL went through the same thing with Boeing back in the 70s... she was recruited fresh out of college along with a huge crop of other recent grads, the company trained them as needed and made use of them as long as they could keep them around on a crap salary. Really helped her career path in terms of experience and training, but didn't do anything for her financially at the time. It was a long-term payoff.

Being a 'company man' was a good thing back in the 50's - 60's, when organziations were more loyal to its employees. Forget it now, as everyone is out for themselves. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as moving around can be beneficial to employees and can even boost careers.

Yeah, and I think that since retirement is becoming more privatized it's less of a motivator. My dad has been working the same job in the same hospital for more than 20 years in the interest of increased retirement benefits... but our generation seems to be relying more heavily (if not entirely) on IRA, 401k, etc. When it's up to the individual to save for retirement, there doesn't seem to be much reason at all to stick with one employer if they're not offering what they should.

Your hubby should get involved with LinkedIn or other professional networking sites, as they are a good way to connect with others. Also, I came across an interesting website a few years back called jobvent.com. Take what is said with a grain of salt, but it is still interesting to look into. I believe the vault.com is also pretty good too.

He is on LinkedIn, but only adds people he's actually met. Right now, he can't find any connections to the new company

I don't know much about LinkedIn because it doesn't have much to offer in my field (so I'm not on it).

I'll take a look at jobvent.com and vault.com to see if there's anything on the new co.! Thanks Omie!

 

[ChargerGrrl]

Date: 6/4/2009 3:00:46 PM


Your hubby should get involved with LinkedIn or other professional networking sites, as they are a good way to connect with others. Also, I came across an interesting website a few years back called jobvent.com. Take what is said with a grain of salt, but it is still interesting to look into. I believe the vault.com is also pretty good too.

We''re on the same page, omieluv! it took me awhile to type out my post so i missed your mention of linkedin

 

[musey]

Date: 6/4/2009 3:15:27 PM
Author: ChargerGrrl

Date: 6/4/2009 2:40:56 PM
Author: musey
I think he''s been trying to find connections to the company''s employees but hasn''t so far. LA is such a big city, that finding connections is really hard, especially when you''re relatively new in an industry.

Musey, you''ve gotten some good feedback here in regards to salary ''asks'' and what the market may dictate.

Just wanted to raise a point about finding connections and networking. Is your DH on linkedin? I found it to be a VALUABLE tool when job-searching last year. It''s amazing to see the connections that are available to you through your ''network''. And lots of recruiters use it to seek out candidates or to just network. I''m a huge fan of linkedin!

He is, and I think that the recruiter actually found and contacted him through LinkedIn (maybe adding to the suspiciousness of his "someone on our team" claims?

). Unfortunately, he doesn''t have any connections to this company, boo. Is it creepy to look people up and contact them on linkedin when you don''t know them, the way it is on myspace/facebook?