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How much does white line affect sapphire price?

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Hello, I'm considering purchasing this stone for my fiance's wedding ring. I love the color, definitely of all the ones I've seen in person it's the nicest color in my eyes. I didn't like too dark like royal blue. Anyways the only issue is the white line going across which is visible even 2-3ft away from the ring at certain angles. The stone is 2.7 carats and isn't given away obviously. It's a bit below 5k CAD. But I'm wondering if the line across makes the price too high?

I guess it's tough to judge value with pictures but also is it possible to say if this is just color banding or is it worse and something that affects the structural integrity?
Also would this be considered an inclusion and if so since it's so obvious would it be categorized as worse than VSI?

Any help would be great thank you! IMG_20191206_124958.jpg IMG_20191206_122323.jpg IMG_20191206_122257.jpg IMG_20191126_162215.jpg IMG_20191206_124951.jpg IMG_20191126_162302.jpg IMG_20191126_162220.jpg
 

Rfisher

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
1,755
I don’t think it’s color banding.
looks like a feather to me. Does it break the surface of any facets?
As for pricing - I can not begin to guess. Too many variables like lab report info/treatment that’s not mentioned to even guess.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,450
It looks like rutile inclusions to me. Unless you have a lab report for the gem, it's hard to guess in absolute terms how much the price is impacted.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Yes I asked if they have any lab info and waiting to see if they do. By breaking the surface on any facets do you mean if there's actually any physical crack? If so then I don't believe so, it looks likes it's inside. Is there an easy way to differentiate banding from feather? I guess feather is much worse and I should stay away if it's that?
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
It looks like rutile inclusions to me. Unless you have a lab report for the gem, it's hard to guess in absolute terms how much the price is impacted.
I googled rutile inclusion, from what I understand it's basically something else that grew inside the sapphire? I guess that would be worse in terms of value standpoint than banding?
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,450
I googled rutile inclusion, from what I understand it's basically something else that grew inside the sapphire? I guess that would be worse in terms of value standpoint than banding?
Color banding might also be a part of how the crystal formed naturally. I wouldn't say that one or the other is inherently worse; this is more an issue of how much the effect bothers you or affects the integrity of the stone. As the inclusion seems to run more parallel to the table and not in a notably transverse direction, I don't think it impacts durability/integrity.

I'm really not a gemological expert and you should really ask the pros like @PrecisionGem about this one.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,160
Imo any highly visible inclusion or color banding is a no unless I’ve seen the stone irl and really don’t mind the inclusion/s.

In this case it’s on the table so I feel like it could be highly disturbing irl. The sort that I will keep looking at and feel irked.

As an engagement ring I would say no. Unless you have seen it irl and really don’t mind and don’t think your partner will mind too.

(Edit: re-read what you wrote. Since you have seen and it’s highly visible I will definitely pass)

Price depends on whether there is any treatment like heating or worst. Can’t tell from what you have divulged. Is this stone certified by a reliable lab?
 

Kevin Bryant

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
71
how does it look face up to the eye? is this noticeable to the eye are only under magnification and in photos. that will be more of a factor them anything. There is no set pricing for color, it is very fluid and different from place to place.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,789
The feather/ rutile band is noticeable and if you’re already thinking it’s obvious, trust me, it will bug you more and more as time passes.
Is it noticeable at “arms length” aka polite viewing distance or just at certain angles and /or when looking more closely aka under 1 foot?
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Imo any highly visible inclusion or color banding is a no unless I’ve seen the stone irl and really don’t mind the inclusion/s.

In this case it’s on the table so I feel like it could be highly disturbing irl. The sort that I will keep looking at and feel irked.

As an engagement ring I would say no. Unless you have seen it irl and really don’t mind and don’t think your partner will mind too.

(Edit: re-read what you wrote. Since you have seen and it’s highly visible I will definitely pass)

Price depends on whether there is any treatment like heating or worst. Can’t tell from what you have divulged. Is this stone certified by a reliable lab?
Thank you for the response. Yes it's quite visible when you see it cutting across the stone. But when it vertical to you it's much less visible. The first time I saw it, it bothered me a lot. But then the more I thought of it, I said if it's proof of a natural Stone and I'm paying a fair value for the stone, it's almost cool in a way. But Im worried maybe my fiance might not see it that way.

For me the other issue is that I've looked over 20 stones in person and there was no other one that popped as much as this one, and now locally there isn't many places left. If it wasn't for this damn line I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Now I don't know what to do. For the cert from a lab, I just asked today and I don't think it was.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
The feather/ rutile band is noticeable and if you’re already thinking it’s obvious, trust me, it will bug you more and more as time passes.
Is it noticeable at “arms length” aka polite viewing distance or just at certain angles and /or when looking more closely aka under 1 foot?
Ya I was thinking that maybe it will bother me more in the future, that's one of the debates in my head. But I was also thinking since it's actually a natural thing it's also kind of cool you know? But since it's so obvious maybe it also affects the value drastically and shouldn't be worth the asking price, which is another concern. It is definitely noticeable from arms length if you see it cutting across 90deg. If it's vertical to you then you won't really see it too much.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
how does it look face up to the eye? is this noticeable to the eye are only under magnification and in photos. that will be more of a factor them anything. There is no set pricing for color, it is very fluid and different from place to place.
Unfortunately it's very noticeable to the eye, that's my hesitation
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,160
Unfortunately it's very noticeable to the eye, that's my hesitation
Then no. It will bug you in the long run. How about getting from an online vendor with good return policy? Do you have an specific color, budget, size and shape that you are looking for? Is heated ok for you?
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,450
How about proposing first and then involving her in the decision on the ring and stone later? Only she will be able to say whether the inclusion will bother her, and she may not want a sapphire anyway. If you're spending good money on an engagement ring, make sure it's one that she'll love.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
How about proposing first and then involving her in the decision on the ring and stone later? Only she will be able to say whether the inclusion will bother her, and she may not want a sapphire anyway. If you're spending good money on an engagement ring, make sure it's one that she'll love.
Oh yes I forgot to mention we are engaged already, we're getting married in January 2020. So there's also a little pressure with time to have the rings done. I still wanted the ring to be a surprise but I have actually thought about just showing her the stone now. I know she wants a sapphire because when I initially proposed it was out of the country and I bought an everyday ring, I was hesitant to carry something valuable around and have to hide it from her. Anyways making a story long for nothing I guess but that ring was a sapphire stone and now she's loving
sapphire.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Then no. It will bug you in the long run. How about getting from an online vendor with good return policy? Do you have an specific color, budget, size and shape that you are looking for? Is heated ok for you?
Online was scaring me a bit, which online vendor would you recommend? I looked at the natural sapphire company, they have a decent selection but I've seen some bad reviews and from what I understand even if I would return something I would lose the duty fees? Also Im very specific with color and I find in pictures it's hard to judge, which is one of my main concerns for online
 

lmyracle

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
194
I understand your rush to get something by January but seriously, it's worth the wait for the right one. Keep searching. With the line being that noticeable, I'd pass. Your stone is out there, just keep looking. I think your fiancee would understand that it's coming - that you're just looking for the right one and she'd appreciate that more than buying something to have it in time. I was frustrated beyond belief in my search but finally found one that was perfect for me - eye visible inclusion but I only notice if I inspect closely (my profile pic). It took me several months of receiving stones and sending them back....but I'm so glad I didn't buy some of the earlier gems I looked at. Wishing you the best in your search but I'd pass on this one.

What's your budget?
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Hey thank you for the support! I think you are probably right, I just don't know much about stones, I had assumed it would be so easy but I guess not lol. Out of all the 20 or so stones I've seen this is the only one I loved the color, that's what I find discouraging. Maybe I'm just too picky and maybe this color is not as common for sapphires. My budget is about 4k CAD for the stone. Oh yes I had actually made a mistake in the initial post, the stone is 3850 CAD
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,450
Do you live in Toronto? There's a jewelry district, and you can schedule with Skyjems to view their sapphires. They have a large selection. If buying online, even I don't feel comfortable unless the seller has a clear return policy, should I not like the stone. Color is something that could appear differently to you, than what it looks like in the photos.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,066
Unfortunately it's very noticeable to the eye, that's my hesitation
Then I would pass. You can find clean sapphire out there. It’s alsi very dark and grayish. I rather have a smaller, albeit finer colored eye clean gem.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
I understand your rush to get something by January but seriously, it's worth the wait for the right one. Keep searching. With the line being that noticeable, I'd pass. Your stone is out there, just keep looking. I think your fiancee would understand that it's coming - that you're just looking for the right one and she'd appreciate that more than buying something to have it in time. I was frustrated beyond belief in my search but finally found one that was perfect for me - eye visible inclusion but I only notice if I inspect closely (my profile pic). It took me several months of receiving stones and sending them back....but I'm so glad I didn't buy some of the earlier gems I looked at. Wishing you the best in your search but I'd pass on this one.

What's your budget?
Forgot to say, very nice color for your sapphire!
Do you live in Toronto? There's a jewelry district, and you can schedule with Skyjems to view their sapphires. They have a large selection. If buying online, even I don't feel comfortable unless the seller has a clear return policy, should I not like the stone. Color is something that could appear differently to you, than what it looks like in the photos.
Hey, no unfortunately I'm in Montreal. The jeweler that was making the ring was searching and had mentioned some places in Toronto but don't think she was able to get any on consignment unfortunately.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Then I would pass. You can find clean sapphire out there. It’s alsi very dark and grayish. I rather have a smaller, albeit finer colored eye clean gem.
I think maybe the picture doesn't reflect the color or clarity well. Because it was very bright and translucent in person, but with a nice blue color. It was the least dark of all the ones I've seen, you saw into the stone best in my opinion
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,066
I think maybe the picture doesn't reflect the color or clarity well. Because it was very bright and translucent in person, but with a nice blue color. It was the least dark of all the ones I've seen, you saw into the stone best in my opinion
I think you need to view many more sapphires. Translucent appearance does not qualify it as fine color. Saturation, hue and tone do.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
I think you need to view many more sapphires. Translucent appearance does not qualify it as fine color. Saturation, hue and tone do.
Yes I'm far from an expert, I've only seen about 20-30 in person and we'll I guess hundreds of pictures which unfortunately don't help much, pictures are hard to judge from. Maybe translucent wasn't the best description. I was just meaning it wasn't actually dark like you thought from seeing the pics, cause I don't like when there is a lot of dark spots when looking into the sapphire, whether that's good or bad I don't know, just seems to be what I prefer. And in terms of color, this was what I found the most appealing and the way the light hit it, made it the most stunning in my opinion. And unfortunately if it wasn't for this white line I would have taken it without hesitation...I guess like you said I have to find a way to see more sapphires, but that's the trouble I'm having cause apparently we've exhausted most of the resources locally so I'm feeling stuck
 

Garnetgirl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
447
Maybe this could be of some help?


I have no idea of the style you would like.....

Chateau d’Ivoire makes some of their own jewellery and has beautiful pieces.

Disegno Jewellery in Ottawa can source gemstones if she is making the ring.

Howard’s in Ottawa has nice stuff, though I’ve never bought from them. I believe they do custom work as well.

Good luck finding your special sapphire.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Maybe this could be of some help?


I have no idea of the style you would like.....

Chateau d’Ivoire makes some of their own jewellery and has beautiful pieces.

Disegno Jewellery in Ottawa can source gemstones if she is making the ring.

Howard’s in Ottawa has nice stuff, though I’ve never bought from them. I believe they do custom work as well.

Good luck finding your special sapphire.
Hey thank you! For the search I've tried that and reached out to many of those Jewelers. The selections of sapphires from most of them was low quality not nice enough for a main stone on an engagement ring. I will look into the Ottawa contacts to see if they can source a stone. Thank you for that it can be helpful as it's not as big a drive as TO! As for the ring I have the style I want and the jeweler I'm dealing with can make it and it's now just to go further out to try and find a stone that I really love and believe she will too!
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
2,927
What would you think of a (pre-loved) 5-stone, diamond and sapphire ring? The listing text doesn't say who made the setting, but the independent appraiser who prepared the pre-sale report -- David Atlas, a PS Trade member -- notes the maker's mark is CvB, which means the setting came from Caysie von Bebber (d/b/a CvBInspired Design) who is well regarded by many PSers. It's currently sized at 6.5, but could be resized albeit not dramatically. Mr. Atlas's pre-sale report is the grey card depicted in the 5th or 6th photo down, in the left-hand sidebar.

ETA: additional background info in this LoupeTroop listing that PSer springerspaniel created to let people know that she had consigned the ring with Jewels by Grace:
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
What would you think of a (pre-loved) 5-stone, diamond and sapphire ring? The listing text doesn't say who made the setting, but the independent appraiser who prepared the pre-sale report -- David Atlas, a PS Trade member -- notes the maker's mark is CvB, which means the setting came from Caysie von Bebber (d/b/a CvBInspired Design) who is well regarded by many PSers. It's currently sized at 6.5, but could be resized albeit not dramatically. Mr. Atlas's pre-sale report is the grey card depicted in the 5th or 6th photo down, in the left-hand sidebar.

ETA: additional background info in this LoupeTroop listing that PSer springerspaniel created to let people know that she had consigned the ring with Jewels by Grace:
Hey sorry but that's not what I'm looking for, thank you though, it's still very nice!
 
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