How do you know . . .

[Irishgrrrl]

. . . when it's time to have a pet put to sleep?

My Great Dane, Caesar, is starting to have some problems. I've had him since he was ten weeks old, and he just celebrated his eighth birthday on December 19. He has always had a very delicate stomach and has been plagued with diarrhea from time to time. However, he has now completely lost control of his bowels. He has been having accidents in the house on a daily basis for several months now. (Usually just normal poop and not diarrhea.) This is inconvenient of course, but it's not a HUGE deal, because it's relatively easy to clean up and DH and I just take care of it and move on.

Lately, he has been having problems with urinary incontinence as well. We took him to the vet about both of these issues, and the vet explained that the bowel incontinence will probably never go away as it is just a part of aging. However, she suggested antibiotics because she believes that Caesar has a bladder infection. So, we put him on a ten-day course of antibiotics right after Christmas, and he had NO pee accidents in the house at all while he was on the antibiotics. But, as soon as the antibiotics were finished, he went right back to peeing in the house again. So, I called the vet again and she prescribed a longer course of antibiotics (twenty days), and we're about halfway through the twenty days now. Unlike the first course of antibiotics, though, he has continued to have pee accidents in the house from time to time.

The worst part, in my opinion anyway, is the fact that he is having more and more trouble getting around these days. When he's laying down, it's very hard for him to get up. He seems to be developing arthritis in his hips, and we tried some arthritis medicine that the vet prescribed, but it didn't seem to help much and it gave him diarrhea. Sometimes, right before he lays down, he whimpers for a while like he's sad or in pain, and it just rips my heart out every time I hear him do that.

On a more positive note, he has been eating and drinking just fine, and he acts like his usual self in most respects . . . he doesn't seem to be getting senile at all.

I don't think it's time to take this step yet, but realistically, I don't think it will be too much longer before we have to start thinking about what is the most humane thing to do for him. Can anyone tell me what your experience with this has been? How do you know when it's time? Do you have any advice on how to keep his quality of life as good as possible for as long as possible? Thanks for any advice anyone can give. I had hoped that we would never have to make this decision for him, but it looks like we will have to after all, and I'm having a really hard time with it.

 

[Lorelei]

Just curious, has he been diagnosed with age related arthritis? It could be possible this is making him uncomfortable and not helping the potty situation, maybe your vet could investigate and give him some meds which might make him a lot more comfortable.

As to when it is time, it has been my experience that you just ' know' and can sense when life is no longer a joy to them. I would continue at the moment seeing what can be done to manage any discomfort he is in when laying down and getting up etc, and see what can be done to continue to give him a good quality of life and control the accidents. If he is still happy to see you, enjoys his grub and some walks and shows a good interest in life, then I would carry on. If the time comes when he is in continual pain which can't be relieved, can't control his bowels or bladder at all, seems tired and not so interested in life as he used to be, then that is the time to think about releasing his spirit. But you know your dog best, also if you have a good relationship with your vet, he or she can help you decide when the time is right.

But talk to your vet about managing any discomfort he is in due to arthritis etc as there are things that can be done. Also have you looked at supplements such as glucosamine? I know some pet owners have had good results with it.
Hugs!!!!

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 1/26/2009 12:57:06 PM
Author: Lorelei
Just curious, has he been diagnosed with age related arthritis? It could be possible this is making him uncomfortable and not helping the potty situation, maybe your vet could investigate and give him some meds which might make him a lot more comfortable.

Hi, Lorelei! The vet is pretty sure that he has age-related arthritis in his hips, and we did try some arthritis medicine, but it really upset his stomach so the vet said we should stop giving it to him. The vet recommended a joint supplement called GF-600 that we have been using for quite a while now. The GF-600 did seem to help him quite a bit at first, but it seems like the arthritis is becoming too advanced for the GF-600 to do much anymore.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/26/2009 1:01:23 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 1/26/2009 12:57:06 PM
Author: Lorelei
Just curious, has he been diagnosed with age related arthritis? It could be possible this is making him uncomfortable and not helping the potty situation, maybe your vet could investigate and give him some meds which might make him a lot more comfortable.

Hi, Lorelei! The vet is pretty sure that he has age-related arthritis in his hips, and we did try some arthritis medicine, but it really upset his stomach so the vet said we should stop giving it to him. The vet recommended a joint supplement called GF-600 that we have been using for quite a while now. The GF-600 did seem to help him quite a bit at first, but it seems like the arthritis is becoming too advanced for the GF-600 to do much anymore.

Ok, I would see if there is anything else she can prescribe for him, or get a second opinion if there is a vet who specializes in musculoskeletal disorders in dogs. I will page Bee and see if she can offer any advice!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

This might sound a little crazy...but I think the animals tells you when it''s time.

I think they let you know by going off their food and water, by letting you know how much pain they are, when it becomes to painful for them to move any longer. I''ve had dogs my whole life, and we''ve always just *known* when the time has come to let them go to the rainbow bridge.

Irishgrrl, I am so sorry. My heart just breaks for you because being faced with that decision is so hard and something that you just cannot fathom doing, but something you cannot not do either. I have a soft spot in my heart for Great Danes...they are truthfully one of my favorite breeds for their simple hearts and gentle giant nature. Please know that I will keep Caesar in my k-9 prayers. I''m so sorry.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Lorelei and Italia, thank you so much! DH and I have three dogs. Two of them were DH''s before he and I got together, but Caesar was mine. Caesar and I have been through a lot together over the past eight years . . . he''s my buddy and he''s always been there for me. I am SO hoping that we won''t have to worry about this for a long while yet, but I''m worried about him . . .

 

[fieryred33143]

Irish, I just wanted to lend my support and sympathy. It''s such a hard decision for any momma to make. You are def. in a tough position so lots of love to you and Ceaser.

FI put his dog down to sleep two years ago. She was probably 15 or 16. Poor thing was just miserable. She used to run around in the yard all the time and by then she could barely move. She had lumps all over her and while she would eat, it would take her a long time to finish a meal because of the pain, at least we think. We would go in the house and before she would either run up to us (and practically knock us down...she was a big dog) to say hello if she was inside or push her head against the patio door so we could go out and say hi. By the end, she didn''t have the energy to do any of it. She would just cry. Poor girl

I don''t know specifically what was wrong with her medically because FI''s mom took care of all of that. But I do know that having her on medication could have prolonged her life a few more years but you can just see it in her eyes that she was miserable. So they decided as a family to put her to sleep.

Very hard decision

 

[tlh]

You know, it is a difficult decision that you face. In fact most people keep their pets alive longer than perhaps they should, because it is too difficult for the idea of "putting them down". I had a friend who kept the dog confined to the kitchen 24/7 and the dog basically wore a diaper. This went on for 7 years. The dog just laid around, and didn''t even wag her tail. I think his time to go was a long time before this... but they wanted her to go when it was her time... and they found her body under the sink, the dog had opened a cubbord crawled in and died... and it was HORRIBLE.
Also, I had a dog and he was my childhood dog. My dad would always take him to the vet, but my mother had a medical background. The vet told my dag that he had cancer, and wanted to start chemo therapy. My dad thought that was silly and took our dog home. He should have just put the dog down right then and there. Not even a week later, my mom found the dog collapsed in the house and took him to an emergency vet... and she saw the xrays... tumors all along his urethra, and he basically hadn''t gone to the bathroom in a week... and was slowly being poisoned to death. She put him down then and there, and was furious that the vet hadn''t suggested that option. She felt guilty because the dog was in pain and she let him suffer NEEDLESSLY for a week... or who knows how long? She also felt like the vet would have put the dog through a very painful regimin which COULD NOT HAVE HELPED SAVE HIM, but buy him only a few months of a PAINFUL LIFE LEFT... for $$$$$.
I currently have a dog w/ an EXTREMELY rare auto-immune disease. He is medicated to keep this disease at bay. It is horrible, painful, and the treatment for it was awful. I felt bad for the dog, and I questioned my DH at why we were putting him through this (we have his and hers dogs, and this is HIS MANLY DOG). He wanted to see if he''d get better... and he did. The chances of it flairing up again are great, and his chance of survival from a second flair up, minimal. After going through it all the first time, we both agreed not to do this to him a 2nd time... and we''ll do what needs to be done. However, if I had known BEFORE we started the treatment, how horribly painful it would be for the dog, I never would have allowed it. I didn''t see the hope at the end of the tunnel. That said, the disease is now at bay... but for how long?
Those are my situations. I find that it is hard to let go of a loved one, but since a dig cannot speak, and they have to be in A LOT of pain to show it.... it is more humane to make the difficult decision. But I would talk with your vet frankly, let him know what expectations you have. Find out what options you have, and discuss possible side effects like you would if your beloved pet was a person. Best wishes to you... this is a difficult decision, and my heart goes out to you.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Fiery and TLH, thank you ladies! It''s never easy to make these kinds of decisions, is it?

As I mentioned in my first post, we''ve been using GF-600 at our vet''s recommendation and that has been helping Caesar somewhat. It''s time to order more, so I checked online to see what else might be out there. It looks like that company makes a stronger formula called GlycoFlex III. I ordered a bottle of that today, so maybe that will help?

 

[Lauren8211]

Hey, IG!

Just wanted to drop in and tell you that I''m sorry to hear about Caesar''s suffering. It''s so hard when your pets aren''t feeling well!

Big ditto to everyone who said that pets kind of "let you know." You can see it in their eyes when the suffering is outweighing enjoyment of life.

***Dust*** to Caesar. I will keep him in my thoughts, as well as you and your DH! I hope he feels better, and that he has many more good years to go!

 

[neatfreak]

Irish, I am also very sorry to hear about Caesar.

I''m a big animal lover too and leading up to the decision can seem really hard, but in the end, it is the easiest decision you''ll ever make. I don''t mean that cruelly, but as Italia said, when it''s time you''ll know. And then you''ll know that you were able to help ease their pain and suffering. Caesar will let you know when it is time.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 1/26/2009 2:39:58 PM
Author: elledizzy5
Hey, IG!

Just wanted to drop in and tell you that I''m sorry to hear about Caesar''s suffering. It''s so hard when your pets aren''t feeling well!

Big ditto to everyone who said that pets kind of ''let you know.'' You can see it in their eyes when the suffering is outweighing enjoyment of life.

***Dust*** to Caesar. I will keep him in my thoughts, as well as you and your DH! I hope he feels better, and that he has many more good years to go!

Thanks, Elle! I have high hopes for the new supplement I ordered today . . . I''ll let you all know how that works out!

 

[AmberGretchen]

I agree with the others that you just know when its time - its such a hard thing to go through, but at some point, the light just goes out of their eyes and you can see how much they are suffering.

One other thought - I hope that Caesar has lots of time left, but try to remember that when that time comes, a peaceful, painless, dignified passing, with the people he loves most surrounding him, will be the best gift you''ve ever given him.

 

[tlh]

Date: 1/26/2009 3:20:11 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 1/26/2009 2:39:58 PM
Author: elledizzy5
Hey, IG!

Just wanted to drop in and tell you that I''m sorry to hear about Caesar''s suffering. It''s so hard when your pets aren''t feeling well!

Big ditto to everyone who said that pets kind of ''let you know.'' You can see it in their eyes when the suffering is outweighing enjoyment of life.

***Dust*** to Caesar. I will keep him in my thoughts, as well as you and your DH! I hope he feels better, and that he has many more good years to go!

Thanks, Elle! I have high hopes for the new supplement I ordered today . . . I''ll let you all know how that works out!

I hope it does work out. Our MANLY dog went through a treatment which took from April ''07 until September ''08. It took that long to put his disease into remission. He showed improvement by September ''08 (ie his head to tail skin lesions began to clear up... but the drugs he was on took a toll on his body...) That said, he is doing much better now, we can play fetch with him in the park and take him on walks with us. We don''t know how much longer he''s got with us... so we are just enjoying all the happy moments we can. It is amazing what the drugs can do, I hope that it works out. I can tell Caeser is a much loved dog, and I know whatever decision is made, you''re making the right one.
***DUST that the medication works, and DUST to your dog getting healthy, and DUST to a long happy tail-wagging life!***

 

[Haven]

I''m so sorry to hear about Caesar. I imagine this is very difficult for you.

We''ve lost three elderly kitties in the last three years

, and I agree that they just let you know when it''s time. Our little Bootsie stuck it out for three years on meds, and although she took a lot of extra care and many trips to the vet, it was clear that she did not feel badly or sickly at all during that time. Then one day, we just knew. She stopped eating and drinking for a full day, and she was crouched and hiding in a corner.

We always say that when we start keeping them around for our own sake rather than for their sake, it''s time.

Good luck. Lots of dust coming Caesar''s way from the Haven household.

 

[packrat]

Sending some dust for Caesar too!

 

[niccia]

So sorry to hear about Caesar. Letting go of our beloved pets is sooo hard, and I really feel for you. I am with Italiahaircolor on this one....usually, you just know when it''s time. I had to make that choice for my cat when I was 19 and my parents were away. We had been together for 19 years, and I was dreading it. He had been sick for some time, but we managed to keep him pretty comfortable and we just kept spoiling him and doing everything we could to keep him happy, even though I knew it wouldn''t be long. The day he died, I woke up with him sleeping under my arm. He had crawled there on his own, and cuddled with me for a little bit, and then crawled down the hall to a dark room and cried a couple times. As soon as I heard him cry, I called the vet. I just instantly knew it was time. I could see he also wanted to be in the dark, which I hear pets often do when they are dying. The vet came over right away and put our wonderful old boy to sleep. It was so incredibly hard to do, but I was very relieved that he was at peace. The crazy thing is that me and my sisters would wake up and hear him purring by our heads at night, or feel him jump up on the bed every so often for a few months after that. I knew it was him visiting.
Caesar and you will be in my prayers

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I just want to send some dust to Ceasar as well...I''m sorry you''re going through this

Does he have accidents in his sleep as well, or just while he is awake?

 

[joflier]

Hey. I don''t really have any good opinions. When I put my cat down last year, she was in really rough shape, and I just knew it was time, and that I didn''t want her suffering anymore. She couldn''t walk or eat. I think she had a stroke. But anyways, just sending some positive thoughts to you and Ceasar!

 

[LaurenThePartier]

I''m so sorry to hear about your Caesar. You''ll know when it''s time, because he will let you know. Hugs to you, because this is an incredibly difficult decision, but just know that it will be the best thing for your puppah.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Irish I am so sorry to hear about your doggie. I am facing the same issue right now with our pug, Nessa. She pees all the time and isn''t really interested in life anymore. She''ll be 7 this year and it''s much too soon. You''ll know when the time is right. ((((((HUGS))))))

Diva

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Ladies, thank you so much for all the replies! You''ve all helped me more than you''ll ever know. ((((HUGS))))

Neat, thank you. I think you''re right that I''ll eventually feel better afterwards, because I''ll know that he''s not in pain anymore.

Amber, I agree about the eyes . . . I keep looking at his eyes, and they haven''t lost that light quite yet. He still tries to play with us! LOL! Hopefully it will be that way for quite some time yet.

TLH, you''re right . . . the medicines that are available these days really can work wonders! I just hope his new supplement works or, if it doesn''t, I hope we can find something that does.

Haven, I''m so sorry about your three kitties! It''s so hard to lose a pet, but it must be so much harder to lose that many right in a row! ((((HUGS)))) and thanks for the dust!

Packrat, thank you for the dust! I think he''s starting to feel all the good PS vibes . . . he''s walking around our bedroom right now!

Niccia, your story about your kitty really hits home with me! We lost our beloved cat Max a few years ago, and I think he came to visit a few times afterward too. DH and I both kept thinking we saw a cat out of the corner of our eye, but we''d look and there would be nothing there. DH isn''t the type of person to believe in things like that, but even he agreed that it wasn''t a coincidence. I like to think that they come back to check on us sometimes.

NEL, thank you! I think his accidents usually happen while he''s awake, but he does sometimes have an accident in his sleep too. As a fellow big-dog person, you can probably understand the amount of mess we''re dealing with!

Jo, I''m so sorry to hear about your kitty! I think you absolutely made the right decision though . . . I keep telling myself that I''ll really start to worry if/when he stops eating. That''s just not like him, and I''ll really KNOW something is wrong if he stops eating. Definitely sounds like your girl might very well have had a stroke, and you did the right thing for her. ((((HUGS))))

Lauren, thanks for the hugs. I need those right now! I think you''re right . . . he''ll let me know somehow. I just have to keep listening to him and hoping that today isn''t the day.

Diva, I''m so sorry about Nessa! You''re right . . . seven is much too soon, especially for such a little dog! I hope she''s OK. ((((HUGS))))

 

[Kaleigh]

I am sorry IG. I know it''s a hard road. I think you will know it when the time is right. I had a Bichon Maddie who had Lupus. Who knew dogs got that too. She was a trooper. But one day, she looked at me, her eyes said please enough with this. She and I had such a close bond. I took her to the vet. I said to her it was time to go . She still looked at me, like yeah I am done here. It was peaceful and painless. I held her for some time. I kissed her said good bye. The Vet treated her with great dignity and hugged me as I left to go home, with tears in my eyes. He said I wasn''t going to let you go on with treating her much longer, you made the right decision.

I hope the arthritis meds help. I have to send healing dust his way. But if his eyes tell you, enough is enough.
HUGS

 

[:)]

I am sorry you have to even consider this. I know it is really hard. We knew it was time when she was clearly suffering and having difficulty performing activities of daily living (getting up, trying to walk without being severely short of breath, having shortness of breath at rest, coughing all the time, etc). Medication could only take her so far, and as much as it hurt, it was the kindest thing to do.

 

[Samantha Red]

Date: 1/26/2009 1:10:39 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
This might sound a little crazy...but I think the animals tells you when it''s time.

I think they let you know by going off their food and water, by letting you know how much pain they are, when it becomes to painful for them to move any longer. I''ve had dogs my whole life, and we''ve always just *known* when the time has come to let them go to the rainbow bridge.

Irishgrrl, I am so sorry. My heart just breaks for you because being faced with that decision is so hard and something that you just cannot fathom doing, but something you cannot not do either. I have a soft spot in my heart for Great Danes...they are truthfully one of my favorite breeds for their simple hearts and gentle giant nature. Please know that I will keep Caesar in my k-9 prayers. I''m so sorry.

Irishgirl, my heart goes out to you so much because I have just been in this situation myself and I still cry every day a little. I lost my very beloved lab on the 1st October and received amazing support from all my cyber friends here on PS. I worried for the last year of her life about this very issue, sometimes to the point of nearly having panic attacks about it and the truth was in the end she told me. She was ticking along fine and then one day had some sort of cerebral episode and was gone within 36 hours. She wasn''t in pain or distress but gradually declined until she could only lift her head; at which point it was off to the vets and the dead was done. My biggest fear had been rushing into a decision and feeling like I had deprived her or us in some way, but it was so obvious in the end. My advise is that if you are wondering whether it is time, it isn''t time. I hope that makes sense and my thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Kaleigh, thanks for sharing your story about Maddie. I''m glad you were able to help her the way you did, and I''m glad your vet was so caring! I think having a good vet takes some of the pain away a little. Caesar''s AWESOME vet retired recently, and we switched him to the practice that DH has always taken our other two dogs to, so now all three of them go to the same vet. Makes life a little easier! I just loved Caesar''s old vet though, and I could tell Caesar did too. There are three vets at the office we use now, and they are all wonderful, but no one could ever be as good as his old vet. I try to cut them some slack!

, thanks for sharing your experience. I agree that you definitely did the right thing for her. If she was short of breath and coughing all the time, I think you really did do the kindest thing you could. ((((HUGS))))

Samantha, I remember when you lost your dog. Labs are just awesome, aren''t they? Our other two dogs are lab mixes, and they are such sweetie pies! It''s so hard to figure this out with Caesar, because he has good days, bad days, and in-between days. Yesterday was a pretty good day, and this morning he seemed to be doing well . . . no accidents overnight and he got up pretty easily for me this morning! So, I''m keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best.

 

[KimberlyH]

Just wanted to offer my support and sympathy, Irish.

 

[bee*]

Date: 1/26/2009 1:06:24 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 1/26/2009 1:01:23 PM

Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 1/26/2009 12:57:06 PM

Author: Lorelei

Just curious, has he been diagnosed with age related arthritis? It could be possible this is making him uncomfortable and not helping the potty situation, maybe your vet could investigate and give him some meds which might make him a lot more comfortable.

Hi, Lorelei! The vet is pretty sure that he has age-related arthritis in his hips, and we did try some arthritis medicine, but it really upset his stomach so the vet said we should stop giving it to him. The vet recommended a joint supplement called GF-600 that we have been using for quite a while now. The GF-600 did seem to help him quite a bit at first, but it seems like the arthritis is becoming too advanced for the GF-600 to do much anymore.

Ok, I would see if there is anything else she can prescribe for him, or get a second opinion if there is a vet who specializes in musculoskeletal disorders in dogs. I will page Bee and see if she can offer any advice!

Hi Irish!! So sorry to hear about Caesar. Personally I think that you will know when it''s time. When quality of life is fading and he is no longer happy, then I think that it''s time. In terms of his meds-was it Metacam that he was on before for his arthritis? You could try Arthriaid-my parents have their older dog on it and it''s worked wonders for her. I would get a second opinion too as a lot of clinics only sell certain brands of meds and another vets might have a different brand which might help Caesar more. Your vet might be able to send you into a referral hospital also?

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Thanks, Kimberly.

Bee*, we had tried a medication callled Novox. Caesar was on 200 mg of that per day (100 mg with breakfast and 100 mg with dinner). We only gave him three doses, so he was only on it for about a day and a half. He was actually having one of his bouts of diarrhea at the time the vet prescribed it for him, so we stopped giving it to him until the diarrhea subsided. (The vet was afraid the Novox would make his diarrhea worse, since diarrhea is often a side effect of Novox.) However, soon after the diarrhea went away, he started with the peeing. Soooo, between the diarrhea and the peeing and the fact that diarrhea is often a side effect of Novox, we were really afraid to give it to him until we got the potty issues figured out. We still have 37 of the Novox pills, and I''m thinking about trying that again if the GlycoFlex III doesn''t help him. The GlycoFlex III is a nutritional supplement (as opposed to a prescription) and it supposedly doesn''t cause side effects. I think we''re going to try the GlycoFlex III by itself first (it''s on order and should be here soon), and if that doesn''t work we might try the GlycoFlex III in combination with the Novox. I feel like we need to give the Novox a fair chance, if the GlycoFlex III doesn''t work . . . we couldn''t really get an accurate picture of whether the Novox was helping him or whether it was causing diarrhea when we tried it before, because he had diarrhea to begin with and we didn''t want to give him the Novox until his diarrhea cleared up. I''d rather use the GlycoFlex III by itself since it''s not a "drug" and doesn''t causes side effects, but I''ll definitely give the Novox (or some other prescription) a try if the GlycoFlex III doesn''t work. I''m just really hoping SOMETHING works!!!

 

[coatimundi_org]

Twinkie--sending dust to your Dane. I can only image how tough this is. Hugs to you and Caesar. Take care, hon.