How do you know what you know about stones?

[gwendolyn]

The thing that pulled me into joining this board is how knowledgeable the people here are, and what I want to know is, how did y''all get to be so SMART?

I want to be able to rattle off the ideal range for RB depths or know how a stone will face up based on numbers alone without having to look up posts here that tell me so. So...how does someone get really good at it?

Is it just reading a lot of diamond grading reports? Is it real-life buying experience? Is it having a good head for numbers (because I can''t for the life of me remember crown angles or tables percents, let alone think of them in relation to other numbers

)?

I''ve done lots of the first, almost none of the second

, and think the last one is that some have it and some don''t!

Sadly, I don''t.

Unless I try really hard?

Please help! I want to be able to go into a B&M and tell the salespeople the specs to see in person what I really want to buy from WF, but I don''t want to just spew off a list of numbers I''ve memorized without really understanding them. Any suggestions?

 

[JogiaDiamonds]

Because buying a nice stone that you like isn''t just about numbers, then the easiest way to buy a nice stone is to buy an Ideal-Scope or ASET first. A small investment considering you are likely to spend thousands of dollars on a diamond.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/1/2008 5:21:16 AM
Author: JogiaDiamonds
Because buying a nice stone that you like isn't just about numbers, then the easiest way to buy a nice stone is to buy an Ideal-Scope or ASET first. A small investment considering you are likely to spend thousands of dollars on a diamond.

No, I know it's not just about the numbers, but here's the thing: I want to ultimately buy online, so I want to see how those numbers correlate to stones in person. I'm in the UK and there's NO WAY I'm buying from a B&M here--prices are ridiculous! But when I go in to do some groundwork and see the stones in person, I don't want to just drool and say, "Uh, show me the good ones?" I want to say "I'm looking in this colour range, this carat range, the clarity range" (which I know, yay me) and then be able to see the difference (if there are any) in the depths or tables sizes or whatever.

I am going to get an Ideal-Scope. Just want to study up before then is all.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/1/2008 5:08:40 AM
Author:gwendolyn
The thing that pulled me into joining this board is how knowledgeable the people here are, and what I want to know is, how did y'all get to be so SMART?

I want to be able to rattle off the ideal range for RB depths or know how a stone will face up based on numbers alone without having to look up posts here that tell me so. So...how does someone get really good at it?

Is it just reading a lot of diamond grading reports? Is it real-life buying experience? Is it having a good head for numbers (because I can't for the life of me remember crown angles or tables percents, let alone think of them in relation to other numbers

)?

I've done lots of the first, almost none of the second

, and think the last one is that some have it and some don't!

Sadly, I don't.

Unless I try really hard?

Please help! I want to be able to go into a B&M and tell the salespeople the specs to see in person what I really want to buy from WF, but I don't want to just spew off a list of numbers I've memorized without really understanding them. Any suggestions?

I think what you need most of all Gwen, is an interest in your subject and a desire to learn, which you have! So like with anything, it involves lots of reading and studying, then putting what you know into practise here over time, then you get familiar with the desirable ranges for a round diamond, fancies are another matter entirely!

Here are some suggested numbers for a very tightly cut round diamond that you can use. Bear in mind, the combos for crown and pavillion angles at the steeper and shallower ranges may need further examination.

depth - 60 - 62 ( although you can go deeper if all else is right, suggest a max of 62.6%)

table - 54 - 57%

crown angle -shallower 34 - 35% getting a bit steeper = further eval

pavillion angle - shallower 40.5 - 40.9 or 41 getting a bit steeper= further eval

girdle thin to slightly thick, medium, slightly thin are all fine, avoid extremes such as thin to ex thick.

Once you know the numbers that work, then it is good to look at as many examples of diamonds with these combos as possible, so you can see how the variations in angles affect the cut diamond. Those numbers are very tight and found in superideal cut diamonds, but sometimes if you want a nice make of diamond, some numbers outside of these ranges can work nicely, such as a slightly larger table etc!

Hope this helps!

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/1/2008 6:03:01 AM
Author: Lorelei
I think what you need most of all Gwen, is an interest in your subject and a desire to learn, which you have! So like with anything, it involves lots of reading and studying, then putting what you know into practise here over time, then you get familiar with the desirable ranges for a round diamond, fancies are another matter entirely!

Heheh, no worries, I''m going one step at a time! I want an RB, so I''m just stickin'' with RBs for now.

Author: Lorelei
Here are some suggested numbers for a very tightly cut round diamond that you can use. Bear in mind, the combos for crown and pavillion angles at the steeper and shallower ranges may need further examination.


depth - 60 - 62 ( although you can go deeper if all else is right, suggest a max of 62.6%)


table - 54 - 57%


crown angle -shallower 34 - 35% getting a bit steeper = further eval



pavillion angle - shallower 40.5 - 40.9 or 41 getting a bit steeper= further eval


girdle thin to slightly thick, medium, slightly thin are all fine, avoid extremes such as thin to ex thick.

Fantastic, thank you so much!!!

Author: Lorelei
Once you know the numbers that work, then it is good to look at as many examples of diamonds with these combos as possible, so you can see how the variations in angles affect the cut diamond. Those numbers are very tight and found in superideal cut diamonds, but sometimes if you want a nice make of diamond, some numbers outside of these ranges can work nicely, such as a slightly larger table etc!


Hope this helps!

Ok, but one question--when looking for such a tight range (which is what I want), do you think the higher-end B&Ms will be more likely to have these kinds of stones in stock? If I can avoid having to call first to ask if they have stones like that, I''d like to, simply because I don''t want to lead them on.

Thank you again for your help, Lorelei! And congrats again on your PS Valentine''s Day prezzie!

 

[Lorelei]

Oh thanks Gwen!

It might be an idea to stick to AGS0 cut grade diamonds and GIA Ex when looking, also some GIA very good cut grade may have similar proportions such as the ones above, when looking. That would narrow things down considerably. So you could ask wherever you are thinking of looking, if they carry these diamonds, or could get some in with the colour, clarity and size you want. Also you could perhaps order an Idealscope, which can help you further sort ' the wheat from the chaff'!

https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

 

[Ellen]

Date: 2/1/2008 5:08:40 AM
Author:gwendolyn

Please help! I want to be able to go into a B&M and tell the salespeople the specs to see in person what I really want to buy from WF, but I don''t want to just spew off a list of numbers I''ve memorized without really understanding them. Any suggestions?

Gwen, I''m confused. Are you going to buy your stone from WF? Because if you are, you may not need to do all this homework. I mean, if you really want to, that''s great. But if you''re thinking of buying from WF, and especially an ACA, there really isn''t the need, if you don''t want to.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

When I decided to start a collection, I read all the diamond books I could find and I always look at as many stones as possible. You develop a good eye for cut and color that way.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/1/2008 8:40:13 AM
Author: Ellen
Gwen, I''m confused. Are you going to buy your stone from WF? Because if you are, you may not need to do all this homework. I mean, if you really want to, that''s great. But if you''re thinking of buying from WF, and especially an ACA, there really isn''t the need, if you don''t want to.

I do want to buy an ACA from WF, but I''ve only done minimal shopping in person, and am not totally sure how colour sensitive I am--I think when I went shopping before, I saw what the SA wanted me to see, if that makes sense? I think I tried on an F and an H and could see a difference, because the H definitely looked yellow to me, but I didn''t look at them in natural light, and didn''t see a G in person (which is what I think I''d like to try for, since I think an F will be out of my price range in the size I''d like). But in addition to the colour thing, they weren''t cut equally well, and since I didn''t really know what the difference was, I just kind of took the SA''s word for it. And I think she showed me a really well-cut F and a mediocre H, but I don''t know for sure.

I''ve been reading casually about diamonds since I was 16 (am 29 now), so it''s always been an interest of mine. But until I found this place, I never really knew where to get information about it, because the SAs always seemed to me to be in on some sort of secret and wouldn''t explain things at all. Once I found PS, I spent two months just reading all the info in the Diamond Book and doing searches to find answers to the questions that have been bugging me for ages. But I still just know the basics, and since I''m pretty sure J and I will be able to get engaged in about a year, I want to make sure that if I get a G or H stone from WF and have it brought over to the UK, that I already have a good idea in my head of what it will look like, from seeing stones with very similar specs in real life.

It''s an anal-retentive sort of thing to want to do, I think, which is funny because I''m not really like that with things in general. I''ve just spent half my life doing research for this one purchase (no upgrades), and I want to make sure I know as much as possible before I go out and do the deed.

PS: Sorry for the wordy post--I have issues with brevity.

 

[MoonWater]

I know what I know from reading these boards. It seemed so overwhelming and I didn''t think I''d ever absorb it. Then I went back to read my rambling emails to my bf describing to him every detail about the diamond I want and I realized I could regurgitate a lot of information without even coming back to the forum! Now he''s the one that''s overwhelmed. I almost feel sorry for him.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 2/1/2008 8:53:59 AM
Author: gwendolyn

I do want to buy an ACA from WF, but I've only done minimal shopping in person, and am not totally sure how colour sensitive I am--I think when I went shopping before, I saw what the SA wanted me to see, if that makes sense? I think I tried on an F and an H and could see a difference, because the H definitely looked yellow to me, but I didn't look at them in natural light, and didn't see a G in person (which is what I think I'd like to try for, since I think an F will be out of my price range in the size I'd like). But in addition to the colour thing, they weren't cut equally well, and since I didn't really know what the difference was, I just kind of took the SA's word for it. And I think she showed me a really well-cut F and a mediocre H, but I don't know for sure.

Well don't get me wrong, I would never discourage you from learning! But I was just thinking, if you were worried about getting a good stone from them, that's NOT a worry! If you're more worried about color, and what you can tolerate, do you have any place around that sells branded diamonds like Hearts On Fire? Those would be a better gauge, and so would AGS0 graded stones.

Also, get them in natural light, by a window, or prefably outside if the store will let you. And don't hold them next to each other, look at them all on their own.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 2/1/2008 9:17:47 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 2/1/2008 8:53:59 AM
Author: gwendolyn

I do want to buy an ACA from WF, but I've only done minimal shopping in person, and am not totally sure how colour sensitive I am--I think when I went shopping before, I saw what the SA wanted me to see, if that makes sense? I think I tried on an F and an H and could see a difference, because the H definitely looked yellow to me, but I didn't look at them in natural light, and didn't see a G in person (which is what I think I'd like to try for, since I think an F will be out of my price range in the size I'd like). But in addition to the colour thing, they weren't cut equally well, and since I didn't really know what the difference was, I just kind of took the SA's word for it. And I think she showed me a really well-cut F and a mediocre H, but I don't know for sure.

Well don't get me wrong, I would never discourage you from learning! But I was just thinking, if you were worried about getting a good stone from them, that's NOT a worry! If you're more worried about color, and what you can tolerate, do you have any place around that sells branded diamonds like Hearts On Fire? Those would be a better gauge, and so would AGS0 graded stones.

Also, get them in natural light, by a window, or prefably outside if the store will let you. And don't hold them next to each other, look at them all on their own.

To be on the safe side I would stick w/an H or I but I agree go out a look at the stones and see if you can tell the difference. It is kind of a fun experience.

Ditto to what Ellen said too. Also, I like to short cut it and use this tool http://www.pricescope.com/sift.aspx it finds the best stones for you when you select excellent excellent

 

[gwendolyn]

Not sure if there is a nearby HOF dealer or not. I'm trying to load up the website, but the flash thing isn't working so I can't get into the site. Hrm.

Thank you for the suggestions, ladies! I will give everything a try!

 

[tberube]

I didn''t know squat about diamonds before I came on PS. Just reading posts, advice, and criticisms on diamonds, I have learned a lot about cut, which is by far the most eluding "C." I''m still no expert, but I can walk into a jewelry store now and by the numbers I can tell which diamonds are cut well and which are duds. For the most part.

 

[gwendolyn]

HOF doesn''t seem to be all that common in the UK. My school is in a pretty well-to-do area, so I was hoping there''d be something nearby that I''d not come across, but haven''t found anything yet.

While looking, though, I came across someone advertising an HOF stone "of rare white colour." Er...is that to make me think it''s a D when it isn''t?

http://www.butterworthjewellers.co.uk/acatalog/WN294B.html

 

[Ellen]

Not sure what they mean Gwen. It would be nice to list exactly what it is....

 

[Lurchie]

Wine tastings have become ubiquitous...one of the Pricescope vendors needs to offer diamond "tastings!" GOG''s videos are a good start and a great way to waste an hour or two (or so I''ve heard).

But he only stocks great diamonds, so in a way it''s like comparing caviar to caviar when what you really want to compare are caviar to fishsticks.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/1/2008 11:51:26 AM
Author: Lurchie
Wine tastings have become ubiquitous...one of the Pricescope vendors needs to offer diamond ''tastings!'' GOG''s videos are a good start and a great way to waste an hour or two (or so I''ve heard).

But he only stocks great diamonds, so in a way it''s like comparing caviar to caviar when what you really want to compare are caviar to fishsticks.

Hehehe, I like that analogy! Although I hope to high heaven that I can see a fish stick as a fish stick...