How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collection

[johnfish]

I am sure this has been covered on here some where but I am having trouble with the search function. Anyway. The hunt for a stone for my GFs e ring has made me fall in love with colored stones. I love looking at them. I thought it would be cool to start a collection of colored stones and display them so I could look at them. Let me makethis clear I am not doing this for intrinsic value or as an investment. I just want to collect some faceted gems to display. I have looked at ebay and verious dealers and I have seen lots of stones that are very cheap and i expect that they are not what they are advertised as at least on ebay. I do want natural stones but I am not concerned about them being heat treated. I am not sure if it is an issue if they are even diffused as I am really just interested in the beauty of the stone. So how does one go about finding stones that are not too expensive but are still natural and a pleasent to look at.

John

 

[beaujolais]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Ooops, the bug has bit you. You may not recover and have it for a lifetime, too. You have lots of company, though.

Read, keep reading. Here is a great place to learn & hang out. Tremendously knowledgeable, helpful & wonderful people. Look at the stones of some of the recommended vendors on their sites. You will find what types/colors of stones you like and don't. If you find one you may be interested, post it for a critique and see if it would be a wise purchase.

Have a great time. Gemstones are gorgeous & fascinating.

 

[RedSpinel]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

See, by law, before you can actually start a gem stone collection, you must go out and buy some rough, then cut at least 20 pieces into faceted gems, and they must be good! Not until you've accomplished that can you apply for a gem collecting license.....

No just kidding. I'd say to not spend much money on any gems until you have a good basic knowledge about gemstones. Maybe buy some cheaper stones on auction at first, and check them out. Do lots of reading on the subject etc. Its easy to get ripped off if you dont know whats what. People will tell you a stone is "top gem world class" or some other similar cliche in order to convince you that you should buy it, but more often than not, they dont turn out to be that nice.

I think you're destined to buy a few lemons, as probably every one here has, but at least if you start out smaller til you are more knowledgeable, then you wont lose too much $$ on bad stones.

Good luck.

 

[T L]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

I am sure this has been covered on here some where but I am having trouble with the search function. Anyway. The hunt for a stone for my GFs e ring has made me fall in love with colored stones. I love looking at them. I thought it would be cool to start a collection of colored stones and display them so I could look at them. Let me makethis clear I am not doing this for intrinsic value or as an investment. I just want to collect some faceted gems to display. I have looked at ebay and verious dealers and I have seen lots of stones that are very cheap and i expect that they are not what they are advertised as at least on ebay. I do want natural stones but I am not concerned about them being heat treated. I am not sure if it is an issue if they are even diffused as I am really just interested in the beauty of the stone. So how does one go about finding stones that are not too expensive but are still natural and a pleasent to look at.

John

#1) Read LD's sticky thread at the top of this subforum titled "New to colored stone buying, read this first!"
#2) Pick a color you like, preferably one or two
#3) Pick a gemstone species in that color, and try to learn as much about it as possible before you commit to a search. For example, say I like chrome green, then there is chrome tourmaline, chrome diopside, tsavorite, and emerald. Learn the positives/negatives of each gem when compared to the other. For example, chrome diopside is soft and has a low RI, but it is inexpensive next to the others.
#4) When you then narrowed your search after #3, then look at as many examples as you can of that particular gem species or more.

Getting into a loose gem collection by starting with a myriad of gems is too difficult for a newbie IMHO. There are too many variables to consider for one gem species, let alone several, and you don't want to be wasting your money, because that will happen if you are uninformed about a particular species. I would start with one at a time. JMO

 

[johnfish]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Wow thank you so much for all the great replies. I guess I need to do some more research!

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

I probably sound like a stuck recording, but gem shows, gem shows, gem shows! Of course the stones will look their best under the lighting, but you will see a host of stones, and get a sense of how sparkly they are (dispersion), how fragile they are (Mohs hardness), how expensive they are, and whether cut and clarity are important to you. If you really are going to collect, to have them displayed, or put them in a little dish or something, maybe you don't care if they have hardness "suitable for a ring." Maybe you won't care if there are little eye visible inclusions.

There are so many stones readily available for a few $$ on ebay and other websites. Peridots, tourmalines, some garnet and quartz (amethyst, citrine, prasiolite), and a host of opaque stones like lapis, onyx, agates and jaspers (I feel like I'm reeling off the names of Santa's reindeer, heh heh). Get some used stones on the Preloved section. Some of them are beginner or learner stones in that they are not terribly good quality for the species, but some are beauties cut by the precision cutters we frequently discuss (sticky at top has list of all well thought of vendors for stones, cutting service, rough buying, settings, etc.)

I agree with TL - pick a color or pick a species, otherwise, you'll be all over the place collecting everything and only after, wishing you had slowed down and accomplished it in a more organized and selective manner (yes, I'm talking about myself too). Anyone can go out and quite quickly fill up gem tray after gem tray and pay too much in the process. The trick is to take your time, be selective, and be happy with each purchase. And enjoy it, always enjoy it!

 

[chrono]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

LD's sticky is a must for just about everyone. Once your head is spinning, it's time to see these things up close and personal. Check out gemshows (and leave the money at home) just to see what's out there, see what you like / dislike, find out about general pricing, see what's hot and what's not and more. I know it feels like it's going to take a while before you actually start your collection, but this way, you aren't throwing money away, no matter how cheap they are, plus you won't end up with trays full of junk that is almost impossible to get rid of. While your opinion is that treatment doesn't matter, it has an impact on how the stone looks, pricing and collectability.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

LD's sticky is a must for just about everyone. I know it feels like it's going to take a while before you actually start your collection, but this way, you aren't throwing money away, no matter how cheap they are, plus you won't end up with trays full of junk that is almost impossible to get rid of.

While as usual I agree with everything Chrono said, this is the part I cannot stress enough. The challenge to collecting is not ending up with the trays of junk that you can't give away if you try...sort of like one of those card games where you have to get rid of all your cards and not have any left in your hand by the time the game is over. [Except of course, for the good stones, err, I mean cards, that you will keep forever ]

 

[johnfish]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Thank you Chrono, TL, minousbijoux,redspinel and sonomacounty. I did go to the recent intergems show in Chantilly Virginia. It was an eye opening experience! I did buy one thing at the show. A beautiful 0.88 carat round sapphire for my girlfriends e ring. I do know I am really inlove with sapphires. One of the PS members also shared some very smal sapphires out of a melee mix that he was giving away (thanks Chrisa). As i walked the gem show I was amazed at the variety and beauty of the stones i saw. I just got overwhelmed by all the things I saw. I had intended to buy some things at the show but i just didnt understand what I should buy to start the collection. I saw alot of stuff that was very expensive and alot that was very cheap. How do you know you are getting any kind of a quality item at such a low price. I need to have an expert go with me to one of these shows LOL

In any case I think that sapphires are probably my starting point. But I will go back and reread the sticky. It was invaluable in understanding colored stones and was a great help while looking for the e ring stone.

John

 

[chrono]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Personally, sapphires or corundum can be one of the more difficult stones to purchase. They come in so many colours and the range of treatment is endless (and continuing to develop more as I type this). You've definitely grasped the reason why attending gem shows is a good starting point and why leaving the wallet at home is a good one too. Less of a temptation to want to buy everything within sight. There are reasons why a stone is expensive and why another one is cheap. Knowledge and experience will tell you why a particular is priced as such, and how to judge quality.

 

[johnfish]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Thank you again Chrono! I was aware of many of the treatments that sapphires can have and you are giving me good advice. I truly appreciate it. I will research more but if I had to pick 3 colors I would like to collect it would be red, green and blue. Deep reds. Brilliant greens and deep but not dark blues. I have also become really enchanted with opals as I love the fire within the stone. I also love the stones in rough crystal form. I have a chunk of amethyst that I love to look at. I will probably look to add to that collection as well. When I look at the natural crystals I often wonder if they could have been cut into finished gems but I am sure there is a good reason they decided to sell it as rough (too many inclusions, possible structure problems in the crystal it self etc.). I really love the faceted stones though. Too many decisions!

John

 

[Kajsa]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

I know just how you feel. I've been researching a sapphire for an e-ring for a while and getting a tremendous education from all of you. Thank you for that! Yesterday I went with my fiance to be to meet his 97 year old step mother. We are 70 and 75 ourselves, no spring chickens. she is a recent widow of a rock hound and amateur cutter. She showed us trays upon trays of single stones. Here she is, poor woman, and has no idea what these things are. Whatever they are, I do know they need to be recut. But I drooled!!!

We are thinking of going down to gemfix to look at their stones. We are in the Puget Sound. They seem to have a tremendous inventory and according to the forum, people have had good experience with them? We are looking for a 2-3 ct oval, medium blue sapphire with good saturation, vvs and no windows and little extinction. Minou says that's hard to get in an oval? Anyway, we wanted to feel and look, so we're flying. We are engaged, but the ring doesn't come until we feel comfortable making a decision. We are babes in arms about this whole thing. I've been thinking platinum with either two princess cut or tapered baguettes on each side. Input please!?

 

[LD]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

I love it when the bug hits others - there's more of us on here to chat about gems!!!!

In my experience there are two types of collectors

1. The collector who wants only the best but hasn't done any research and asks others to do that for them - will often take the word of vendors and then ......... ouch! Typically spends lots of money on each stone but doesn't necessarily get good value for money and does have some lovely stones.

2. The collector who does some research and then buys a little of everything buying a fair amount of lemons on the way but amasses knowledge and develops his/her "eye" on the way. These people typically carry on collecting because they REALLY have the bug! Making their own mistakes at the beginning is also an invaluable way of learning - and sometimes the only way.

TL and Minous have given great pieces of advice to concentrate on one gemstone and shop around for that. It's easier to develop an eye if you do this because you're seeing lots of variations of the same stone. I actually started by buying a stone because I believed the "hype" about it (shame on me ). I then went on to buy by colour. I loved blue stones and started with that route. There were no forums when I started collecting - not sure the internet had even been invented so I didn't benefit from the input of others. I very quickly collected a lot of stones that could only be described as fish gravel! Thankfully I've moved past that stage but I still manage to buy the odd "unexpected" stone

I would echo what Chrono says about sapphires - they are probably the hardest to buy when you start out because of the treatment levels. You do seem to be aware of that and only want natural stones (if I'm reading your post correctly) so for this reason, I would start elsewhere. Whatever you do thought, don't pick red as a colour to follow. Red is THE hardest colour to find in any gemstone (and usually the most expensive)!

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Kajsa: congratulations on your engagement! It gives me hope that in the second half of my life I too might find a committed partner like you. How awesome!

Anyway, good choice on going with a sapphire. I don't know what I was thinking if I said that finding an oval sapphire with your specifications would be difficult, as ovals are the most easily found shape. I don't know what your treatment tolerance is or what you're looking to spend, but I would be happy to help you! I have a feeling that I might have made that comment in response to someone who had a minimal budget, wanted a highly sought after color, and wanted little or no treatment - that would be hard to find in 2-3 carats.

We also have another member here, Arkteia, who lives up in the Seattle area I believe and who could probably share her thoughts on other places you might want to hit that are little closer to home for you. I'm pretty sure that Intergem stops in Seattle; that might be a good place to see many sapphires up close and personal too.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Oh, I just re-read your post. Yes, it is true that extinction is more of an issue in ovals (you've probably heard people refer to the "bowtie"), so it will be harder to find one without extinction but they are out there...

 

[desertgem]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

You might decide to collect a piece of rough for each of the faceted gemstones you do. The rough can give you knowledge of the crystals and their fundamental growth habit. It is nice to be able to show a cut gem and then the piece of rough. Often if the crystal is outstanding or somewhat unique, it is more valuable than the faceted result. It will also educate you on inclusions which is a whole new area, and then you can actually spend less on a stone you like because most of the "buyers" want close to flawless. To enhance your collection, you might buy one very rare variety for every few "pretties". Collectors also get to buy the stones that are too soft or brittle for jewelry but have high dispersion and color. Best Wishes

jim

 

[Kajsa]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Thanks, Minou, for telling me about InterGem. They will be up here in late August. Questions: If gemfix says they have an AGL certificate for a stone, is that reliable? I know about AGL being one of the best for CS. And should I prefer a stone cut by Andrew Gulij? This is for my e-ring. Does anyone have any thoughts about settings by James Allen? I have read a few negative reviews online. Any info on this will help a lot, since I will be wearing this ring daily. I also don't want my fiance-to-be to be disappointed in his purchase regarding quality and price.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

You really shouldn't buy any expensive stone without a lab report to make certain that it is as represented. The real issue are the invasive treatments which use such high temperatures so as to temporarily modify the stone's structure and allow foreign elements to be introduced, which in turn can improve clarity and radically change a stone's color. There are all sorts of feelings about these invasive treatments, but the important thing is to know what you are buying so you pay an appropriate price. AGL, GIA and GRS (more likely to be encountered in Europe due to its location there) are all good labs. I would say most of us who are into colored stones would prefer AGL over GIA.

Should you prefer a Gemfix stone is a hard question to answer. Assuming you understand about treatments, know the level that is acceptable to you, and feel that the stone is fairly priced, it really comes down to your personal taste and what you like. Some people don't stress the cutting as long as its not egregiously bad, and others of us wouldn't buy a stone unless it was precision cut. The stones you see at Intergem will likely run the gambit from poor/mediocre cutting to excellent precision cutting. After figuring out where you are on the cutting spectrum, and what is acceptable to you, it becomes all about color, which comes down to personal preference. Make sure to view the stones in various lighting situationss - daylight, incandescent, fluorescent, etc. The downside at a gem show is that there are not too many vendors who will trust you to walk away with one of their stones so as to see it in daylight from an outside window. I have consistently heard on this board that Gemfix's stones are typically a little darker in real life, so its a good idea see them in hand.

I think that answers your questions. Good luck and please !keep us posted

 

[Kajsa]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Dear Minou, thank you so much for your help! It is my understanding that Andrew Gulij is a precision cutter? The primary reason I'm thinking of a gemfix stone is that he has a large inventory of sapphires on his site and he isn't too far away - even though he is in San Diego and we are closer to Vancouver. I want to see and feel the stones and compare several which is hard to do through the post or FedEx. I appreciate any input from you "old-timers" as I'm trying to learn. I'm going to make mistakes, but I'd prefer it not being in my e-ring, especially since I won't be paying for it. I'd go closer to home, but don't know the name/s of anyone up here.

 

[0-0-0]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Kajsa, if San Diego is not too far out of the way, I think Andrew is worth a visit. Not all of his stones are precision cut, but most are well cut. He only lists a portion of his inventory online. I was not too impressed with his sapphire collection when I visited last summer, but he gets new inventory and cut new stones all the time. He's a very nice guy and gives you complete freedom to play around with the lights, windows, and the microscope in his shop. He even let me take his stones outside his shop to look at them under the nasty fluorescent lights in the hallway. At the very least, you'll come away with a much better understanding of how various colors can look under different lighting, and perhaps which type of color and cut you prefer.

IMO his pricing is on the high side, but I still considered buying an aquamarine from him because the color was so delicious. I find his descriptions to be much more accurate than his pictures. In fact, I would not buy anything from him based on his pictures as they are so inconsistent compared with what the stones look like in person.

For example, this is Andrew's picture of the aquamarine that I was considering. It looks a bit pale and lacks saturation right? Yet in person the color is arguably more blue and saturated than the aquamarine that Jeff White cut for me, under every single light source that I checked.


For both accurate descriptions and pictures, I find Precision Gem and Jeff White to be spot on.

 

[chrono]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Kajsa,

What exactly are your requirements?
2 to 3 carats, check.
Oval shape, check.
Medium blue with good saturation, check.
VVS? Coloured gemstones need only be eye clean and are evaluated as such. For it to be almost internally flawless is almost impossible.
No windows, little extinction, check.
No mention of treatment. Unheated only? Heat only?

I think sharp cornered square stones with an oval is quite dischordant in flow. Tapered baguettes appear to fit better.

When shopping for sapphires of high value / cost, I prefer it to be proven as advertised (heated / unheated only) and would only trust AGL. Due to mistakes by GIA lately, I would not personally use them anymore. This does not mean that AGL doesn't make mistakes but the impression is certainly there that AGL is less likely to be in error, at least the ones that count (treatment and ID of synthetic).

Deciding on a stone cut by who you decide is a very personal choice. Sometimes it so happens to be the only choice available to you that meets your specifications, or you may decide that only precision cutting will do. Also note that not all precision cuts are of the same caliber. Some are of better quality than others. I second the opportunity to view as many sapphires as you can in person, preferably under various types of lighting conditions.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Another precision cutter you probably should consider is Lisa Elser. I believe she is up your way in Canada. Her info can be found on the pinned thread on vendors at the top of the Colored Stone page.

 

[c langston]

Re: How do you go about starting a loose gem stone collectio

Good Morning johnfish your getting some wonderful advice but I have a slightly different perspective, and the tackle box full of gem stones to show for it. I am NOT a jeweler or professional in the biz just someone who LOVES the amazing things that can be done with a fine cut/polish and raw Mother Natures material of most any kind. It sounds like you are looking for a fun and educational journey driven by a passion for stones that you 'click' with. Some of my very favorite pieces have flaws and I still love them because of their shade of color or saturation, I'm not looking for perfection I'm looking for a connection with the stone. I do my collecting while traveling, getting as close to the original source for the stone as possible, you get the full experience from the mining town, the cutter, as you talk to the people who know what that region is known for...you have the stone, a story and live the experience when you travel to add to your collection. Doing it this way you will be 'had' at least once or twice but you will learn in the process, you will find the value in good sources, and get value along the way. The more you are exposed to a wide range of stones, you will find what makes your heart race as you hold it in your hand (sorry but a photo just will NOT do). Part of the excitement and anticipation of your travels is doing your advance homework on sources, that beats an email and a photo any day of the week from where I sit. Most of all remember the value of the stone is not the same thing as the cost of the stone, it's also about the friends you meet along the way.

I told you I had a whole different perspective *chuckle*.

c