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How do you explain to your gf that her ideal cut diamond is good despite poor color and clarity?

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jchau

Rough_Rock
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Mar 23, 2008
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I have learned sooo much from reading this forum. I think the most important thing I learned is that a good cut >>> good clarity and color. That''s why I am able to jump on a 1.5ct Ideal H&A Round from WhiteFlash. The only problem is the H color and SI clarity. Personally, I am willing to make the sacrifrice for the lower color and clarity to save some money. But I can only imagine the disappointment on my gf''s face when I tell her it''s H, SI. She hinted that she wants at least a G in the VS range. I can tell her it''s an Ideal cut but I doubt she knows what that means. And I am sure the first thing her friends will ask is what''s the color and clarity on the diamond. So not only do I have to explain to her why Ideal cut matters, she has to justify to her friends too. Yes, I know this all sound very superficial, but not everyone is as educated on diamonds as members on this forum.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-636608.htm
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 1.528
. Depth %: 61.4
. Table %: 56.7
. Crown Angle: 34.6
. Crown %: 15
. Star : 51
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 43
. Lower Girdle %: 77
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 7.38-7.42X4.54
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible
 
Is there a reason she wants that combination? She could be color sensitive like some people on here or she could want a "mind clean" stone. Make sure there really is no reason she wants those higher stats first before you buy the diamond.
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don't give her the cert or tell her until she has fallen in love with it and shown all her gfs. if she doesn't know, all she will do is show her friends and they won't be able to judge based on the stats, all they will see if that phenomenal aca sparkle.
 
Well, I'm not one of the experts here, but I don't consider H color to be "poor color." Clarity is a little more iffy to me, but it depends on the type of inclusion. With that said, every person is different and cares about different characteristics to their diamond. Either way, a beautiful cut can make an H/SI diamond look icy-white and flawless, so I wouldn't be too worried about those things.

ETA: in the year that I have been engaged, not a single person (outside PS, that is) has asked me the color or the clarity of my diamond, and only one or two have asked me about the carat weight. Mostly, people just notice how beautiful a diamond is, and your girlfriend's ideal-cut diamond will most likely outshine those of all her friends.
 
I don''t think you can, unless you show her this website and she starts to read and get all the info.

I was at work on Wed. night and I was telling a co-worker (a fellow diamond lover) that my anniversary is coming up and I found a diamond, an H SI diamond that I was interested in. When She heard it was an H, she laughed and told me that it would be PEE colored.

Then she told me that SI clarity was terrible, it would be all spotted with black inclusions. Thank god I didn''t tell her it was a SI2.

She told me she would never even think about buying anything lower than an E and VS2.

Then she showed me her earrings, she told me they were 1 carat each and D VS2''s. She told me she paid $9900 for it.

I asked her if they were ideal cut and cert. and she said yes. She told me she just got them in December.

This made me laugh, internally of course, as one carat H SI''s ideal cuts go for around $3500 to $4500.

I then went online with her and showed her the diamond I wanted and she could not believe it was an SI diamond. She said it looked so clear.

She then asked to see the price of an H&A D VS1/2 1 carat diamond. It was $11k +.

She couldn''t get over that that was the price for just one diamond.

Now, I don''t think I converted her into thinking that an H or SI is okay, but I do think I opened her mind that perhaps she didn''t get the best cut diamond and perhaps her diamond knowledge is not as great as she thought.

BTW, I can''t wait to show her my PEE colored diamond.
 
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Hi there,
I''ve certainly grown to know the beauty in a well-cut H-I-J colored RB since seeing some amazing ones on PS, but I agree with Legacy Girl.

Please find out if she''d rather go down in size than sacrifice color and clarity. Most girls are in one camp or another when it comes to that choice. If she is color sensitive, and will dwell on that, or can see the inclusion, it might be worth it to stick with what she''s had her heart set on. If her heart is set on a 1.5 carater, she may have to trade off the color/clarity for now and take care of that when it''s time to upgrade.
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You could take it upon yourself to educate her about what you have learned, once she asks the color and clarity. (I am presuming here that she would accept the proposal first and then ask such details, but some girls might want to know what they are getting before they accept!) If she would be receptive to that kind of thing. But there is no way her friends are going to be similarly educated, so if impressing them is important, you will need to meet their standards.

But first I would think long and hard about what you want this rock to do. Be a beautiful symbol of your new engagement? Or come with an accompanying piece of paper that has letters on it that impress other people. Frankly, I don''t think that your girlfriend''s friends should know the stats, at least no stats that they can''t roughly estimate by eye, and certainly not if they would use these stats to judge. And if they can''t estimate the color and clarity mounted in a ring at reasonable viewing distance, well that is the whole point. They are judging the piece of paper that comes with it and not the stone itself.

A fair bit of the concept of a diamond engagement ring is about meeting outside cultural expectations and not just buying a pretty rock for your girl. Only you can decide how much weight you want to give to meeting outside expectations, and your girlfriend has bought into these outside expectations, so you should also consider if you want to attempt to educate her on what you have learned or if it is better to just go with her preferences, no matter what the basis.

One interesting question would be what the reaction would be to a smaller G/VS stone bought with the same budget at this H/SI. (Of course it should also be ideal cut.) Would this smaller stone be more impressive to the judgometrics than the larger stone with "poor" color/clarity? What about your girlfriend - would she prefer the smaller stone? Cause the size difference will certainly be noticeable.
 
If she wants higher colour and clarity that is what she wants. I don't think you should buy without checking it can be returned for another. If she wants another no question she should get it.

edited to add: You will be okay with Whiteflash because of their return policy.
 
Another thing to consider is that while her friends may ask these questions about her ring at first- they probably won''t keep raising questions about her rings stats. Unless she is talking to someone from PS
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. Topics will change to jobs or kids or aging parents ,etc. However people will always continue to notice her ring if it is a nice one.
 
Date: 4/4/2008 11:37:42 AM
Author: Pyramid
If she wants higher colour and clarity that is what she wants. I don''t think you should buy without checking it can be returned for another. If she wants another no question she should get it.

edited to add: You will be okay with Whiteflash because of their return policy.
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I agree. If that is what matters to her, then she may not find H SI to be '' mindclean'', despite how it looks and performs. If she has told you that is what she prefers, then I would stick to it personally.
 
My wife has a rather large round diampond engagement ring which I gave her on our 30th anniversary. It is in the H/I range and not exactly an Ideal cut. Clarity is about VS2. Of course, I didn''t need a document for a personal purchase, but what I selected was a diamond which fits my personal preferences. Seeing as I have been working in the field for 40+ years, my resources for choosing a particular diamond are based on knowledge. I compromised a bit on every characteristic and obtained a great stone which my wife really appreciates and enjoys. So do I every time I see her wearing it.

For thenty years I have been telling those who would listen that cut was the primary attribute of a diamond. Years ago color was the king, but no doubt remains that cut is the most important contributor to beauty and satisfaction. Moderation in cut, color and clarity can result in a fine choice, too, but it is a more difficult path for novices to follow. It is also more difficult to shop this way on the Internet.
 
Date: 4/4/2008 11:14:38 AM
Author: butterfly 17

I was at work on Wed. night and I was telling a co-worker (a fellow diamond lover) that my anniversary is coming up and I found a diamond, an H SI diamond that I was interested in. When She heard it was an H, she laughed and told me that it would be PEE colored.

Then she told me that SI clarity was terrible, it would be all spotted with black inclusions. Thank god I didn''t tell her it was a SI2.

She told me she would never even think about buying anything lower than an E and VS2.
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That''s the scenario I want to avoid. I told my friend who recently got engaged that I am buying a H, SI. He told me the exact same thing as your friend. It seems like most consumers are obsessed with Color and Clarity because they are brainwashed by local jewelers. I know my girlfriend will love the ring no matter what, but I also know how girls like to brag and gossip about their engagement ring. Dilemmas......
 
Date: 4/4/2008 11:24:24 AM
Author: pixley
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Hi there,
I''ve certainly grown to know the beauty in a well-cut H-I-J colored RB since seeing some amazing ones on PS, but I agree with Legacy Girl.

Please find out if she''d rather go down in size than sacrifice color and clarity. Most girls are in one camp or another when it comes to that choice. If she is color sensitive, and will dwell on that, or can see the inclusion, it might be worth it to stick with what she''s had her heart set on. If her heart is set on a 1.5 carater, she may have to trade off the color/clarity for now and take care of that when it''s time to upgrade.
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This is going to be a surprise proposal so I doubt I can find out much more about her wants without giving it away. I dragged her to a mall jewelry store a few weeks ago to find out her ring size and she''s getting suspicious. Of course, I acted like I didn''t want to be there and that I wasn''t really paying attention. But I know for sure she is set on 1.5 ct.

Can anyone comment on the diamond I linked to in my original post? Do you think I can find a similar diamond with G instead of H for the same price?
 
In my own search I found I was given a list of 'wants'. Even when finding the band, she knew what she wanted, and that was what she wanted. She would of been happy with whatever I gave her, but in her mind, she would not of been as happy. My poor friend wanted to do the whole thing by himself and didn't listen to her input as HE wanted to suprise her. Unfortunately it dind't work out, had a horrible return policy and she now has a ring she doesn't like. You can NEVER go wrong by listening to you gf.

What about something like this VS1 G 1.2 from good old gold... for 10K

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3699/
 
What is your budget? If your gf wants nothing lower than a G, VS2, then I would honor that however, if getting that color/clarity combo puts the 1.5 out of your price range, you need to decide what''s more important to her: color/clarity or size? Another option to get a 1.5 range with the G/VS2 combo is switch the setting to whitegold (if it isn''t already). Or, just increase your budget
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I would also remove the word "poor" when describing a lower color/clarity. I have a J that has zero color to it and an SI2 that is eyeclean from all angles. Only with a loupe can you see the 3 little bubbles. But it''s a gorgeous Ideal cut AGS000 H&A.
 
Date: 4/4/2008 12:22:58 PM
Author: jchau

That''s the scenario I want to avoid. I told my friend who recently got engaged that I am buying a H, SI. He told me the exact same thing as your friend. It seems like most consumers are obsessed with Color and Clarity because they are brainwashed by local jewelers. I know my girlfriend will love the ring no matter what, but I also know how girls like to brag and gossip about their engagement ring. Dilemmas......
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Can you show her the diamond, or is this a suprise.

Or perhaps give her a choice between a smaller G VS1/2 or this one. Why not let her make the decision. If you do that, then she can''t complain later when she realizes she wants a bigger diamond.

I know how she feels though as when I first got on this website, I would never ever have thought about getting an H or SI clarity. Now, 5 years later, my feelings have changed.

I currently have a G VS1 ACA and am about to trade it in for an H SI2. If I had known what I know now, and with prices going up, I should have opted for the larger H SI that was available back then, for the same price.

I will tell you that no one will notice the color at all. Clarity of course no one will notice, unless they walk around louping diamonds and that''s just rude, but you never know.

When I wear my G, everyone thinks it''s an E or an F.

This 1.5 H ACA that you like will look like a G or F, believe me. As long as she keeps it clean, I guarantee her diamond will look 500 times better than anybody else''s.

In fact, get her an ultrasonic as a gift!
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I say get the diamond and don''t show her the cert until she is sure she wants the diamond.
If she doesn''t like it then send it back.
If she does like it, which she should by all accounts, then it will impress her friends just as much and they don''t need to see the cert. Surely they will understand that modesty will prevent you from bragging about your wealth by showing the cert.
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The most common question people get asked is about size. An H color diamond is not shabby at all... (I just bought a J and think it''s as white as any H I have seen)
Give here the diamond then take her to a mal store where they will certainly show you something of lesser quality, and she wouln''t question the H again!
 
Date: 4/4/2008 12:27:29 PM
Author: jchau




Can anyone comment on the diamond I linked to in my original post? Do you think I can find a similar diamond with G instead of H for the same price?
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I think that the one you posted will be awesome. I did find one that is a G, instead of an H, but it's still SI1.

Here is one from GOG-

it is a G SI1 H&A 1.55, about the same price at $12,280, with a bank wire price of $11,685. HCA of 0.9 TIC range.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4043/

Here is another GOG, H VS2 H&A 1.56, $14,080, bank wire price is $13, 605. HCA 1.2 TIC range.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4228/
 
Date: 4/4/2008 12:27:29 PM
Author: jchau


Date: 4/4/2008 11:24:24 AM
Author: pixley
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Hi there,
I've certainly grown to know the beauty in a well-cut H-I-J colored RB since seeing some amazing ones on PS, but I agree with Legacy Girl.

Please find out if she'd rather go down in size than sacrifice color and clarity. Most girls are in one camp or another when it comes to that choice. If she is color sensitive, and will dwell on that, or can see the inclusion, it might be worth it to stick with what she's had her heart set on. If her heart is set on a 1.5 carater, she may have to trade off the color/clarity for now and take care of that when it's time to upgrade.
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Click to expand...
This is going to be a surprise proposal so I doubt I can find out much more about her wants without giving it away. I dragged her to a mall jewelry store a few weeks ago to find out her ring size and she's getting suspicious. Of course, I acted like I didn't want to be there and that I wasn't really paying attention. But I know for sure she is set on 1.5 ct.

Can anyone comment on the diamond I linked to in my original post? Do you think I can find a similar diamond with G instead of H for the same price?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is a top choice! Check if it is eyeclean and if so and you want it, reserve it, a diamond like that and of that size will soon be grabbed - if you decide against G VS!
 
I'd say talk to her more about it if you can. See if she wouldnt mind going down in color/clarity/carat for a better cut. Maybe she just hasn't really researched much into it herself yet and doesnt know what a really nice cut can do for a diamond.

Or if she doesn't want to go down in color/clarity/carat, you can get her whatever you want to get her, but you really can't force her to like something she doesnt like. Maybe save a little bit more money and put it towards what she does like if you can. I wouldn't care what the friends thought to be honest. They're not wearing the ring and if she gets what she wants then whatever her "friends" think shouldn't really matter. She could always say that to them, " I don't really care what you say, he listened/was paying attention and got me exactly what I wanted." And I'm sure her "friends" would shut up.

Quick look on GOG with the carat/color she likes (close to the price on the other diamond): http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4043/

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Date: 4/4/2008 12:45:54 PM
Author: butterfly 17

Here is one from GOG-

it is a G SI1 H&A 1.55, about the same price at $12,280, with a bank wire price of $11,685.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4043/

Here is another GOG, H VS2 H&A 1.56, $14,080, bank wire price is $13, 605.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4228/
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butterfly 17,
I think you are secretly spying on my computer
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. I have those two exact diamonds on my list too. Sheerah at Whiteflash has been helping me this whole week and recommended the 1.528ct ACA. But I am also considering the 1.55 H&A from GOG. The one at GOG is bigger and has a better color but I feel bad for not purchasing from Whiteflash after all the help she gave me.

And this is a surprise proposal so it will be hard to let her choose. I plan to propose in middle of May so I may have to wait a few weeks before I can purchase the diamond since the return policy is only 30 days.

Thanks everyone for reassuring me that a H, SI1 is not that bad at all. I think I will present the diamond with a mini pamphlet describing why the diamond is perfect for her. Then she can copy it and give it to all her friends and families
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Well, I can say that I am not superspy, just someone looking after your best interests.

I did want to say that the return policy is 10 days for Whiteflash, not 30, unless they have changed their policy. Be aware of that. Also, this may not be around that long, so if you want it, reserve before it''s too late.

I had posted before on a diamond that I wanted, a 2.477 H SI1 ACA and within a few days, it was sold.

If you start posting diamonds you are interested in, someone is bound to notice and buy it.

I know what you mean about Whiteflash. When someone has helped as much as they do, it''s hard not to purchase from them. I can say that after purchasing a few items from them I am extremely happy with their customer service and their products. I have no doubt that GOG would provide the same service of course.

One more thing to consider is that the H from Whiteflash is a branded H&A''s. ACA is their signature brand/cut. The one from GOG is a H&A''s, but not branded. I don''t think it really matters, I just wanted you to know.
 
If you show her a WF ACA that is H SI... I''m betting she would guess it''s much higher than H SI because of the excellent cut. Also, like was mentioned, teach her about cut.

Before I started really learning about diamonds, I also set my limit at G VS because I didn''t want a yellow diamond with visble inclusions... I had mall goggles on
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Here on PS we know we can drop in color and clarity and still have a white, eyeclean stone.

If it had been in the budget, I would have gotten VS even though my SI2 is eyeclean. People do ask clarity (they think it''s a high clarity) and I respond by telling them it''s eyeclean (and really- as was mentioned on some other thread recently- all diamonds, even IF, are going to have some flaws, though you would need a higher magnification to see them). If people really want to know the clarity, I will tell them... maybe SI sounds "low quality" but my diamond looks and is high quality... so how my diamond looks has the last word over the grade.

I''m guessing a WF ACA would blow all her friends and family away... as well as her. I''ll bet they would be asking color and clarity because they are thinking it''s much higher than it is.
 
I think I am set on the WF ACA. Although GOG''s H&A is bigger and better color, Sheerah at WF said the H&A pattern on the ACA is better and that the color is neglible due to the high quality cut. I would really really appreciate it if the experts here can do a comparison between the two stones. I will be making the final decision on Monday after conning my gf to go to a jewelry store again and getting more insider info. Thanks everyone!
 
Date: 4/4/2008 2:20:56 PM
Author: jchau
I think I am set on the WF ACA. Although GOG''s H&A is bigger and better color, Sheerah at WF said the H&A pattern on the ACA is better and that the color is neglible due to the high quality cut. I would really really appreciate it if the experts here can do a comparison between the two stones. I will be making the final decision on Monday after conning my gf to go to a jewelry store again and getting more insider info. Thanks everyone!
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It is a good idea to have her look at more stones and figure out how important the G, VS2 limit really is. Do not take her to a standard mall store where the H stones will terrify her. Find out if a local jeweler in your area has Hearts on Fire diamonds so she can see what the colors look like in a really well cut stone like an ACA.
 
Buy the stone you think is best, show it to her, she is be AMAZED!! and then if she asks, tell her to guess the clarity and color! She won''t come close, and then you can tell her and she will be amazed and love you to pieces for such a huge gorgeous stone, and then IF her friends ask, she can say, "I''m not sure, what do you think??" and listed to them tell her it is a D VVS1.

DD
 
Date: 4/4/2008 2:46:16 PM
Author: Kay

Date: 4/4/2008 2:20:56 PM
Author: jchau
I think I am set on the WF ACA. Although GOG''s H&A is bigger and better color, Sheerah at WF said the H&A pattern on the ACA is better and that the color is neglible due to the high quality cut. I would really really appreciate it if the experts here can do a comparison between the two stones. I will be making the final decision on Monday after conning my gf to go to a jewelry store again and getting more insider info. Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
It is a good idea to have her look at more stones and figure out how important the G, VS2 limit really is. Do not take her to a standard mall store where the H stones will terrify her. Find out if a local jeweler in your area has Hearts on Fire diamonds so she can see what the colors look like in a really well cut stone like an ACA.
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This is the problem. H colored SI clarity maul stones can look pretty bad. I wouldn''t want one, either. But the one from WF will look terrific. Show her Hearts on Fire, Lazarre Kaplan, or other branded ideal cut stones.

Good luck.
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Date: 4/4/2008 12:34:00 PM
Author: february2003bride

...I would also remove the word ''poor'' when describing a lower color/clarity. I have a J that has zero color to it and an SI2 that is eyeclean from all angles. Only with a loupe can you see the 3 little bubbles. But it''s a gorgeous Ideal cut AGS000 H&A.
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Yeah, totally DITTO that!!!
 
Date: 4/4/2008 2:20:56 PM
Author: jchau
I think I am set on the WF ACA. Although GOG''s H&A is bigger and better color, Sheerah at WF said the H&A pattern on the ACA is better and that the color is neglible due to the high quality cut. I would really really appreciate it if the experts here can do a comparison between the two stones. I will be making the final decision on Monday after conning my gf to go to a jewelry store again and getting more insider info. Thanks everyone!
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Hi J,

Was just reading here and wanted to clarify something. The 1.55ct G SI1 that is listed on our site had the general description of H&A when in fact it isn''t what we would consider a true H&A. We had the optical symmetry grade listed as "premium" as opposed to "superior" (superior is reserved for true H&A''s or diamonds exhibiting precise optical patterning) but the general description was not listed properly. We purchased that particular diamond because it was a great value and the optics were awesome but I wanted to clarify so you walk into whatever decision you make with true and accurate knowledge. We made the appropriate correction on the website. All the reports/photography/data posted on that diamond though is spot on to that particular diamond.


Kind regards,

 
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