How do I select a diamond that "faces up" large for its carat weight?

[Mrs_Darcy]

Hi everyone,

If you haven''t seen some of my other posts, I''m going to be looking for an AGS0 H SI1, .9-.95 ct Princess. I was wondering what I can do to make sure I select a diamond that "faces up" well, so that I don''t end up paying for carat weight that I can''t enjoy. I was thinking of a depth of less than 70%. Any suggestion/advice offered would be great! Thanks in advance!

 

[Miss Fortune]

I'm not a princess expert but I would go with a lower depth than than 70%. Something around 67 - 68% if you want it to face up large. Good luck finding your perfect stone!

 

[Regular Guy]

I don''t know princesses for detail...but had the impression that ones cut to earn AGS0 did tend to be deep, as a function of the design.

Otherwise...not sure if this might help...if you use the "in-house" search tool, you will get an analysis of spread. I see that of the 16 that appear there, 15 are from WF, all ranging from - 10 to -20 Tolkowski.

 

[John P]

Date: 12/10/2008 12:36:31 AM
Author:summertime
Hi everyone,

If you haven't seen some of my other posts, I'm going to be looking for an AGS0 H SI1, .9-.95 ct Princess. I was wondering what I can do to make sure I select a diamond that 'faces up' well, so that I don't end up paying for carat weight that I can't enjoy. I was thinking of a depth of less than 70%. Any suggestion/advice offered would be great! Thanks in advance!

Hi Summer.

In a princess cut there is no direct relationship between depth% and spread. The same is true for other fancy-shapes. A round has only 3 main angles, so its spread is strongly influenced by changes in depth. Fancies are much more variable. Take the princess cut simulations below:

Spread for each one is 6.00 mm. See how that spread can remain the same while the depth and carat weight change:

Example 1: Depth 75.1% (1.32ct)
Example 2: Depth 65.3% (1.16ct)
Example 3: Depth 75.1% (1.16ct)

These are not all common examples of cutting, but you get the point.

Some of the best performing princess cuts I've seen have depths > 70% with no loss in spread, so don't dismiss them.

Here is an article that elaborates on the above
http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/21/1/The-matter-of-depth-in-a-princess-cut.aspx

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

Thank you all for your replies! I didn''t realize it was such a complicated issue! But I am glad I am more informed now.

I think my new strategy is to examine the measurements of each diamond, to make sure I''m getting a nice spread. Maybe 5.5ish or 5.6 on the lenth, with a width that gives a ratio or 1.029 or less.

Thanks again!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/10/2008 8:55:59 AM
Author: summertime
Thank you all for your replies! I didn't realize it was such a complicated issue! But I am glad I am more informed now.

I think my new strategy is to examine the measurements of each diamond, to make sure I'm getting a nice spread. Maybe 5.5ish or 5.6 on the lenth, with a width that gives a ratio or 1.029 or less.


Thanks again!

Focus on the cut first, then after that looking at measurements will help. But you don't want to fall into the trap of buying a stone that faces up large but isn't cut well, otherwise it'll just look big and dull. So make sure you focus on cut first.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/10/2008 8:57:38 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 12/10/2008 8:55:59 AM
Author: summertime
Thank you all for your replies! I didn''t realize it was such a complicated issue! But I am glad I am more informed now.

I think my new strategy is to examine the measurements of each diamond, to make sure I''m getting a nice spread. Maybe 5.5ish or 5.6 on the lenth, with a width that gives a ratio or 1.029 or less.


Thanks again!

Focus on the cut first, then after that looking at measurements will help. But you don''t want to fall into the trap of buying a stone that faces up large but isn''t cut well, otherwise it''ll just look big and dull. So make sure you focus on cut first.

Ditto, with a well cut stone, the diameter should fall into place and be a good '' spread'' for the weight.

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

Date: 12/10/2008 8:59:48 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 12/10/2008 8:57:38 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 12/10/2008 8:55:59 AM
Author: summertime
Thank you all for your replies! I didn''t realize it was such a complicated issue! But I am glad I am more informed now.

I think my new strategy is to examine the measurements of each diamond, to make sure I''m getting a nice spread. Maybe 5.5ish or 5.6 on the lenth, with a width that gives a ratio or 1.029 or less.


Thanks again!

Focus on the cut first, then after that looking at measurements will help. But you don''t want to fall into the trap of buying a stone that faces up large but isn''t cut well, otherwise it''ll just look big and dull. So make sure you focus on cut first.

Ditto, with a well cut stone, the diameter should fall into place and be a good '' spread'' for the weight.

I''m planning on getting an AGS0, and that is my first priority (from what I learned from all of you!). I''m glad to know that with an excellent cut, spread should also be favorable, so I will simply have to check it. Thanks again!

 

[bgray]

are you sure you want a princess? they always seem to look small for their weight to me. m,y friend bought a round and set it in a square bezel--llooks amazing

 

[hoofbeats95]

Date: 12/10/2008 9:17:59 AM
Author: bgray
are you sure you want a princess? they always seem to look small for their weight to me. m,y friend bought a round and set it in a square bezel--llooks amazing

Do you have a picture of this?

 

[bgray]

no but she copied an antique ring she saw on www.nelsonrarities.com --it was a not uncommon setting way back when. often there were little colored stones set into the corners between the curve of the stone and the bezel. let me look around for something similar

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/10/2008 9:02:15 AM
Author: summertime

Date: 12/10/2008 8:59:48 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 12/10/2008 8:57:38 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 12/10/2008 8:55:59 AM
Author: summertime
Thank you all for your replies! I didn't realize it was such a complicated issue! But I am glad I am more informed now.

I think my new strategy is to examine the measurements of each diamond, to make sure I'm getting a nice spread. Maybe 5.5ish or 5.6 on the lenth, with a width that gives a ratio or 1.029 or less.


Thanks again!

Focus on the cut first, then after that looking at measurements will help. But you don't want to fall into the trap of buying a stone that faces up large but isn't cut well, otherwise it'll just look big and dull. So make sure you focus on cut first.

Ditto, with a well cut stone, the diameter should fall into place and be a good ' spread' for the weight.

I'm planning on getting an AGS0, and that is my first priority (from what I learned from all of you!). I'm glad to know that with an excellent cut, spread should also be favorable, so I will simply have to check it. Thanks again!

AGS0 Princess can be an excellent choice but there are also well cut Princess which are graded by GIA ( not for cut quality but colour and clarity) so you can certainly consider those if you are working with a trusted vendor and have all the info on the diamond available.

 

[bgray]

http://www.estatediamondjewelry.com/item.cfm?int_item_id=853&cat_id=1

they have several in the same vein under "rings"

 

[bgray]

http://www.estatediamondjewelry.com/item.cfm?int_item_id=980&cat_id=1

nothing exactly like what i was refrring to but any permutation is possible

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

Date: 12/10/2008 9:17:59 AM
Author: bgray
are you sure you want a princess? they always seem to look small for their weight to me. m,y friend bought a round and set it in a square bezel--llooks amazing

I am pretty sure I want a princess. It''s my favorite shape, and I also have a RHR that has a .5 ct RB, so I think I would like some contrast.

Does anyone have a picture comparison of a ~1ct princess to a ~1ct round? Is there really that much difference? I really want the most bang for my buck, so I might consider a round if there is a large discrepancy.

 

[Mrs_Darcy]

Date: 12/10/2008 9:40:03 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 12/10/2008 9:02:15 AM
Author: summertime

Date: 12/10/2008 8:59:48 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 12/10/2008 8:57:38 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 12/10/2008 8:55:59 AM
Author: summertime
Thank you all for your replies! I didn''t realize it was such a complicated issue! But I am glad I am more informed now.

I think my new strategy is to examine the measurements of each diamond, to make sure I''m getting a nice spread. Maybe 5.5ish or 5.6 on the lenth, with a width that gives a ratio or 1.029 or less.


Thanks again!

Focus on the cut first, then after that looking at measurements will help. But you don''t want to fall into the trap of buying a stone that faces up large but isn''t cut well, otherwise it''ll just look big and dull. So make sure you focus on cut first.

Ditto, with a well cut stone, the diameter should fall into place and be a good '' spread'' for the weight.

I''m planning on getting an AGS0, and that is my first priority (from what I learned from all of you!). I''m glad to know that with an excellent cut, spread should also be favorable, so I will simply have to check it. Thanks again!

AGS0 Princess can be an excellent choice but there are also well cut Princess which are graded by GIA ( not for cut quality but colour and clarity) so you can certainly consider those if you are working with a trusted vendor and have all the info on the diamond available.

You''re right Lorelei, I would definitely consider an excellent diamond graded by GIA, particularly if it was an ACA from Whiteflash. I simply stated AGS0 because I wanted to clarify that cut is most important to me. Thanks for pointing that out though!

And of course, I will be sure to run any potential purchase by all of you beforehand, just to make sure it''s a keeper!

 

[stone-cold11]

Just so you know, one of the criteria for ACA is that the stone achieves a AGS0 cut grade from AGSL. So there will never be a ACA Princess with GIA report unless you sent it to be graded by GIA.

GOG have some GIA graded princess cut however.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/10/2008 10:39:05 AM
Author: summertime

Date: 12/10/2008 9:40:03 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 12/10/2008 9:02:15 AM
Author: summertime

Date: 12/10/2008 8:59:48 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 12/10/2008 8:57:38 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 12/10/2008 8:55:59 AM
Author: summertime
Thank you all for your replies! I didn't realize it was such a complicated issue! But I am glad I am more informed now.

I think my new strategy is to examine the measurements of each diamond, to make sure I'm getting a nice spread. Maybe 5.5ish or 5.6 on the lenth, with a width that gives a ratio or 1.029 or less.


Thanks again!

Focus on the cut first, then after that looking at measurements will help. But you don't want to fall into the trap of buying a stone that faces up large but isn't cut well, otherwise it'll just look big and dull. So make sure you focus on cut first.

Ditto, with a well cut stone, the diameter should fall into place and be a good ' spread' for the weight.

I'm planning on getting an AGS0, and that is my first priority (from what I learned from all of you!). I'm glad to know that with an excellent cut, spread should also be favorable, so I will simply have to check it. Thanks again!

AGS0 Princess can be an excellent choice but there are also well cut Princess which are graded by GIA ( not for cut quality but colour and clarity) so you can certainly consider those if you are working with a trusted vendor and have all the info on the diamond available.

You're right Lorelei, I would definitely consider an excellent diamond graded by GIA, particularly if it was an ACA from Whiteflash. I simply stated AGS0 because I wanted to clarify that cut is most important to me. Thanks for pointing that out though!

And of course, I will be sure to run any potential purchase by all of you beforehand, just to make sure it's a keeper!

I just wanted to make sure, as sometimes GIA Princess can be overlooked by the talk of AGS0 here being the way to go when buying a Princess, and if you are working with a trusted vendor who has all the pertinent info then you can find a well cut GIA stone. Also A Cut Above will always have an AGS0 report, that is part of the package of a diamond which has the ACA title.

And you are most welcome, post whatever you have and the regular RT posters can take a look for you!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 12/10/2008 9:17:59 AM
Author: bgray
are you sure you want a princess? they always seem to look small for their weight to me. m,y friend bought a round and set it in a square bezel--llooks amazing

That is a pretty blunt statement, although often true. It needs to be put into perspective though.

What is true, is that in surface-area, a princess-cut always has less surface-area than the same weight round. But this does not mean that it must look smaller.

If a princess is extremely well-cut, one can build optical effects into it that make it look bigger. This is comparable to the effect of edge-to-edge light return in a round, where a superior cut round with a smaller diameter can look bigger than an average-cut round.

The optical effect in a princess is to highlight the long diameter from point-to-point, which is much longer than the diameter of a similar-weight round. By highlighting this, one gets the optical effect that the stone seems much bigger. This can be seen in the ASET. If you have an uninterrupted red area from point to point, this long diameter will be highlighted, and a lot of people will argue that it looks bigger than a round of the same size.

Live long,

 

[purrfectpear]

Alot of people think the princess looks larger? Really? Even at it''s perfection in cutting, ALL princess cuts look smaller to me than a well cut round in same carat weight.

1 carat round = .85 carat looking Princess, just my opinion

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Sorry for having been unclear, purrfectpear.

IF a princess is cut extremely well, one can obtain the effect that it seems bigger than the same weight round.

This, of course, is a bold statement, since it is conditional to the stone being extremely well cut, far above the minimum for AGS-0, and designed with this optical effect in mind.

And with the number of people who have actually seen such princess-cuts extremely limited, the statement will have few believers, except for the ones who have actually seen such stones. Even very few professionals have seen those, I must add.

Live long,

 

[elle_chris]

This is so interesting because to me, princess cuts don''t look smaller. I''m not in love with the the way they''re cut or I would have considered one when looking for my last stone.

Something about the squareness, i dunno, it just comes off looking bigger to me than a round of the same weight.

 

[bgray]

Date: 12/10/2008 11:40:58 AM
Author: purrfectpear
Alot of people think the princess looks larger? Really? Even at it''s perfection in cutting, ALL princess cuts look smaller to me than a well cut round in same carat weight.

1 carat round = .85 carat looking Princess, just my opinion

First I apologize for being too blunt earlier--its just that i read her question about spread as her being concerned about how big it looked yet in my opinion (like purrfectpear) i think they look smaller and somehow denser than a say a round or cushion of similar weight. So I said are you sure you want a Princess--because thats not a stone i would go for if i was trying to maximize size/spread/look on my hand.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/10/2008 12:04:16 PM
Author: bgray

Date: 12/10/2008 11:40:58 AM

Author: purrfectpear

Alot of people think the princess looks larger? Really? Even at it''s perfection in cutting, ALL princess cuts look smaller to me than a well cut round in same carat weight.


1 carat round = .85 carat looking Princess, just my opinion

First I apologize for being too blunt earlier--its just that i read her question about spread as her being concerned about how big it looked yet in my opinion (like purrfectpear) i think they look smaller and somehow denser than a say a round or cushion of similar weight. So I said are you sure you want a Princess--because thats not a stone i would go for if i was trying to maximize size/spread/look on my hand.

The other thing to consider with all this is that princesses are often cheaper than rounds, so with the same amount of money, you might be able to buy a bigger stone, thus getting the same visual effect per dollar even if you have to go to a bigger carat weight to do it.