How common are lower color grades in nature?

[diagem]

Date: 7/18/2009 8:24:25 AM
Author: Amethyste

Date: 7/18/2009 1:28:00 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 7/17/2009 11:06:50 PM

Author: Amethyste

When I had my lemony pear appraised, she said that to find a VVS2 clarity, W to X color in the 5+carat range like mine would be TRULY an impossible task to fill. She suggested me to never loose it... lol


I don''t see much lower colors for sale on websites... its a shame, they are so beautiful.

I take it your pear is cut to a standard colorless brilliant cut...

Most cutters will recut your 5+ ct into a 4ct *hoping* for fancy color tricky modified pear...


The calculation=


5 ct lemony W-Y is worth *A* on the open market...

4 ct fancy yellow (face up) is worth *A* x 2 or more....

My pear was cut in a modified brilliant cut already.
Besides, even if they tried to cut it into something else until the cows come home,
my pear would NEVER get the fancy yellow color grade: You cannot trick a strong fluorescence.

Then to me it translates to..., there was an attempt to earn the *magic* word by the cutters..., which translates again to, you got a good realistic value.
If your Diamond would have earned the *magic* fancy word..., you would have either not gotten it or paid a whole lot more!

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Everyone!
Diagem- It''s been my experience that when diamonds are properly cut to show the maximum color, in many cases, the cut is different than a stone of the same shape in a cololress.
Pear shape is a great example.
The faceting below the girdle on a Fancy Colored Diamond is where you''ll see the biggest difference.

I have found that many cutters who are cutting darker goods show tremendous sensitivity to lighter colors as well- treating them as yellow diamonds. Cutting them as they would "fancy" yellow diamonds.
It''s quite possible the Amethyste''s 5 Ct W-X was cut using the best possible methods and great judgement. It''s not neccesarily true that it would cut to a 4ct Fancy Yellow

DF- I agree with you- the use of the word "Fancy" is over-rated.
If the person wearing it knows what it is and loves it, what''s the difference if it''s a W-X, or a Fancy Intense Yellow?
In my experience, W-X, when cut like a Fancy color and properly set- is a yellow diamond. When people notice the diamond, they notice the color.

 

[Amethyste]

As for my pear, when I look at it, I don''t see it as a W to X color range, I truly see it as a yellow ( Lemony ) diamond. I couldn''t care less of what my cert says it is really. The thing I cared most when I was looking for this type of purchase was a high clarity ( eagle eyes here ) and that it was a pear shape. The cut on it is amazing, the cutter did an outstanding job on my pear, if you look at it stright on, you cannot see a dead spot, its a fireball. There is an extra facet, but hey, i don''t care nor could ever find where it was.

Bottom is, the fact that is was graded W to X, that it missed the fancy color wording turned out to be, for me, an extraordinary buy. I looooooove my diamond!

 

[T L]

Date: 7/15/2009 4:45:52 PM
Author: strmrdr
What makes then rare is the lack of a brown under or over tone once you get into the fancy yellow colors.
Brown is the kiss of death on value.

That''s true for all gemstones, not just diamonds.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/19/2009 10:22:29 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 7/15/2009 4:45:52 PM
Author: strmrdr
What makes then rare is the lack of a brown under or over tone once you get into the fancy yellow colors.
Brown is the kiss of death on value.

That''s true for all gemstones, not just diamonds.

Hmm... why the hate for brown??? Is it that much more common in gems?

 

[Moh 10]

People may have an aversion to brown because it is the color of . . .____.

Sorry, someone had to say it.

 

[DiamondFlame]

Date: 7/19/2009 11:46:55 AM
Author: Moh 10
People may have an aversion to brown because it is the color of . . .____.

Sorry, someone had to say it.

ROFL. This is an interesting thread.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/19/2009 11:46:55 AM
Author: Moh 10
People may have an aversion to brown because it is the color of . . .____.

Sorry, someone had to say it.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 7/18/2009 10:49:33 AM
Author: glitterata
My Infinity S also has strong blue fluorescence. I wonder whether that had anything to do with the decision to cut it as an Infinity rather than try for a fancy yellow in a fancy cut?

Paul/John/Wink, thoughts?

BTW, Amethyste, I love your yellow pear!

Not in any way, glitterata.

Depending on the origin, some rough tends to come back a higher colour or a lower colour than expected in the rough stone. In this case, we did not expect to be in the S-range, and never even thought that the rough stone could be a fancy colour, if cut differently.

On a side-note, we did experiment with some true fancy-colour-stones last year, and arrived with some fancy intense yellows. Only to find that our distribution channel is not really organized to promote and sell these. Now, if we have a stone in the rough that could yield a fancy colour, we prefer to sell the rough stone.

Live long,

 

[glitterata]

Interesting, Paul. What shape were the fancy intense yellows you cut? Not round Infinity cuts, right?

When you buy a batch of rough, do you usually cut most of it into Infinity diamonds, or do you usually sell most of it to other cutters and cut only a small portion into Infinities?

(Feel free not to answer this if it involves private business details, of course.)

 

[T L]

Date: 7/19/2009 10:29:43 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/19/2009 10:22:29 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 7/15/2009 4:45:52 PM
Author: strmrdr
What makes then rare is the lack of a brown under or over tone once you get into the fancy yellow colors.
Brown is the kiss of death on value.

That''s true for all gemstones, not just diamonds.

Hmm... why the hate for brown??? Is it that much more common in gems?

Brown tends to "muddy" color when it is a modifier, and in general it is not a color that and you can''t see brown from across a room, like a vivid red for example. It is just a very boring and plain color, and yes, it is a very common modifier in gems, and it always detracts from a gem''s value, whether it''s a diamond or some other kind of stone. The same thing could be said for grey. However, most blue diamonds have grey in them, including the Hope diamond, and blue is so rare iin a diamond, that the grey does not typically detract from the value, unless the stone is more grey than blue.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 7/19/2009 9:42:42 PM
Author: glitterata
Interesting, Paul. What shape were the fancy intense yellows you cut? Not round Infinity cuts, right?

When you buy a batch of rough, do you usually cut most of it into Infinity diamonds, or do you usually sell most of it to other cutters and cut only a small portion into Infinities?

(Feel free not to answer this if it involves private business details, of course.)

We cut a cushion and a radiant FIY.

Of the rough parcels that we buy, we generally re-sell between 25 and 50% to other cutters. The others are cut for Crafted-by-Infinity''s.

Live long,

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 7/19/2009 11:58:34 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 7/19/2009 10:29:43 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/19/2009 10:22:29 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 7/15/2009 4:45:52 PM
Author: strmrdr
What makes then rare is the lack of a brown under or over tone once you get into the fancy yellow colors.
Brown is the kiss of death on value.

That''s true for all gemstones, not just diamonds.

Hmm... why the hate for brown??? Is it that much more common in gems?

Brown tends to ''muddy'' color when it is a modifier, and in general it is not a color that and you can''t see brown from across a room, like a vivid red for example. It is just a very boring and plain color, and yes, it is a very common modifier in gems, and it always detracts from a gem''s value, whether it''s a diamond or some other kind of stone. The same thing could be said for grey. However, most blue diamonds have grey in them, including the Hope diamond, and blue is so rare iin a diamond, that the grey does not typically detract from the value, unless the stone is more grey than blue.

Actaully we''ve found that there are many stones that have brown as a modifier that actually improves the color, to many observers.
For example- there are cases that a Fancy Brownish Yellow will bear a strong resemlance to a Vivid.....looking far more saturated than a pure Fancy Yellow.
The part about brown lesseing the price is true- so in many cases a Fancy Brownish Yellow is like "A poor man''s vivid".
I''ve seen quite a few stones graded Fancy Vivid Yellow by GIA that actually had some orange in them- which is closely related to brown.

Another great example are Pinkish Brown diamonds. In many cases they have extremely strong pink hue- remember, brown and pink are related, as colors. IN these cases, the brownish aspect makes them a real value.


Paul...I''d LOVE to see the Intense Yellows you guys cut!

 

[Lorelei]

I like pinkish browns, not brown yellows.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Lorelie, not to try and change anoyone''s mind.....but there''s a huge variety of Brownish Yellows.
Some are really "butt ugly" while others may be quite attractive.
The stone in the photo was a "Fancy Brown- Yellow"....I really liked that one in person!

 

[Lula]

Yummy. Very nice, Rockdiamond!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/20/2009 3:32:24 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Lorelie, not to try and change anoyone''s mind.....but there''s a huge variety of Brownish Yellows.
Some are really ''butt ugly'' while others may be quite attractive.
The stone in the photo was a ''Fancy Brown- Yellow''....I really liked that one in person!

I know, I just don''t like the ones I have seen! A tint of pinky brown I find pretty but not with yellow!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 7/20/2009 3:50:21 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/20/2009 3:32:24 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Lorelie, not to try and change anoyone's mind.....but there's a huge variety of Brownish Yellows.
Some are really 'butt ugly' while others may be quite attractive.
The stone in the photo was a 'Fancy Brown- Yellow'....I really liked that one in person!

I know, I just don't like the ones I have seen! A tint of pinky brown I find pretty but not with yellow!

So when are you coming to visit!

NYC is lovely in July

Thank you sara!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/20/2009 3:52:55 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 7/20/2009 3:50:21 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/20/2009 3:32:24 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Lorelie, not to try and change anoyone''s mind.....but there''s a huge variety of Brownish Yellows.
Some are really ''butt ugly'' while others may be quite attractive.
The stone in the photo was a ''Fancy Brown- Yellow''....I really liked that one in person!

I know, I just don''t like the ones I have seen! A tint of pinky brown I find pretty but not with yellow!

So when are you coming to visit!

NYC is lovely in July

Thank you sara!!

LOL! I would love to come to NY and do a li''l shopping....

 

[T L]

Date: 7/20/2009 3:06:18 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 7/19/2009 11:58:34 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 7/19/2009 10:29:43 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/19/2009 10:22:29 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 7/15/2009 4:45:52 PM
Author: strmrdr
What makes then rare is the lack of a brown under or over tone once you get into the fancy yellow colors.
Brown is the kiss of death on value.

That's true for all gemstones, not just diamonds.

Hmm... why the hate for brown??? Is it that much more common in gems?

Brown tends to 'muddy' color when it is a modifier, and in general it is not a color that and you can't see brown from across a room, like a vivid red for example. It is just a very boring and plain color, and yes, it is a very common modifier in gems, and it always detracts from a gem's value, whether it's a diamond or some other kind of stone. The same thing could be said for grey. However, most blue diamonds have grey in them, including the Hope diamond, and blue is so rare iin a diamond, that the grey does not typically detract from the value, unless the stone is more grey than blue.

Actaully we've found that there are many stones that have brown as a modifier that actually improves the color, to many observers.
For example- there are cases that a Fancy Brownish Yellow will bear a strong resemlance to a Vivid.....looking far more saturated than a pure Fancy Yellow.
The part about brown lesseing the price is true- so in many cases a Fancy Brownish Yellow is like 'A poor man's vivid'.
I've seen quite a few stones graded Fancy Vivid Yellow by GIA that actually had some orange in them- which is closely related to brown.

Another great example are Pinkish Brown diamonds. In many cases they have extremely strong pink hue- remember, brown and pink are related, as colors. IN these cases, the brownish aspect makes them a real value.


Paul...I'd LOVE to see the Intense Yellows you guys cut!

I agree, brown can also make a colored diamond more affordable, and a great buy, especially if the brown does not overpower the stone. Some chocolate diamonds are very attractive in rose gold as well, so not all brown stones are ugly. Diamonds have the sparkle factor that make them beautiful regardless of color, otherwise why would so many people buy colorless diamonds?

It's just when you want a vivid color, and nothing less will do, you really need to avoid brown. I try my best to avoid brown in gemstones other than diamonds. The only stones that I really tolerate a brown modifier are colored diamonds because they are typically uber expensive otherwise.